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Dawg Talker
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 Just sayin  .
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Quote:
I'll take Sanchez any day of the week over Colt McCoy.
but, that was not the question (that you provided yourself). the question was whether you would give up on Colt McCoy and give up our 2nd 1st round pick for Sanchez.
I would not. I do not think he is enough of an upgrade to even consider it.
Also, great that you provided the teams that both QBs have played. I included the NFL ranking in parenthesis for their pass defense by QBrating to those (QBrating isn't perfect, but it's better than any other singular stat)
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Sanchez has played Dallas(11), Jacksonville(13), Oakland(8), Baltimore(3), New England(26), Miami(30), San Diego(27), Buffalo(5).
We have played Cincinnati(14), Indianapolis(32), Miami(30), Tennessee(18), Oakland(8), Seattle(22), San Franciso(6), Houston(2)
average pass defense NYJ have faced = 15.4
average pass defense CLE have faced = 16.5
yes, we'd have to have something factor that then goes and takes out opponent strength and such. if you know of a site that has this done, then please post. but, in general, it's not like McCoy has faced the softest pass defenses and Sanchez has faced the toughest ones.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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With that said, if all I'm getting out of Barkley is another Sanchez, I'll pass. We can do better with that pick. And I'll wait until a real big time QB is available for us to pick at another time.
Right there is where u guys majorly fail at this...
Build the team then go for the QB is BS...If u don't have a Franchise QB u DRAFT em' NOW...And if the dude is bonafide u GO UP AND GET EM'...Even if it's a Barkley available at 3 and we're sitting at 7...GET EM'...
Newsflash...If you're winning 6 or 8 games and need a QB...GOOD FLIPPEN LUCK...You're drafting way too low to get the top quality QB's...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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I don't know if you were for or against that post you quoted, but to me, Sanchez isn't bona fide. I don't think he helps the Browns much if he were on this current team. I think we're probably right around where we are now.
That of course, is assuming I knew ahead of time that Matt B. would only be as good as what Sanchez has shown us through 3 years.
But like Bryan said, and I agree, Barkley is a better prospect than Sanchez was, and I totally agree we should trade up to get him should we not be in the top 3 or whatever.
We probably more than any other franchise value our draft picks more than anyone else. They are our gold.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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1.2 yards/attempt difference is huge .... and I don't even like Sanchez. I would take him over McCoy, but I don't believe that eh will ever be a difference maker. He's like Game Manager + ........ a slight upgrade, who is capable of having a spectacular game once in a while, only to let you down the next.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
1.2 yards/attempt difference is huge .... and I don't even like Sanchez. I would take him over McCoy, but I don't believe that eh will ever be a difference maker. He's like Game Manager + ........ a slight upgrade, who is capable of having a spectacular game once in a while, only to let you down the next.
Yes. I'm not saying I wouldn't take Sanchez over McCoy right now, because I would, but I was more saying I wouldn't waste a high pick on Sanchez because I don't think he helps this team very much. He's got it way better in NY with a good O-line, RB's, WR's and a top notch defense.
I think there are QB's in the league that could possibly make Mo Mass and Little look better, but Sanchez ain't one of them, and if that's the case, neither would Barkley if that were his ceiling.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
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There's no guarantee Luck is the next Elway and even if he is, he might pull a Rivers and demand to be traded.
1. I like that you first used Elway, but then switched to someone else when giving an example of someone who told the team that drafted him to trade him (something Elway did to Indy)
2. Manning (Eli), not Rivers.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Wasn't it Baltimore at the time? Who knows how history might have changed if Elway would have played in Indy ...... maybe the Baltimore Colts would have generated massive excitement because of dramatically improved play .... sold out their games ...... never moved ......and thus Modell would have had no where to go .......... Just another reason to hate Elway. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Never thought of it that way. He screwed the Browns twice.
So does The Drive never happen, or does it happen with Baltimore?
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All Pro
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All Pro
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I'm pretty sure fan support was not why the Colts moved. It was additional revenue, ala Modell.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Stats are for losers.
Unless that stat is strength of schedule. 
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I'll take Sanchez any day of the week over Colt McCoy.
Right now Sanchez is better.. I think most peoples point is that he isn't THAT MUCH better and he isn't the guy people would be excited to build their team around. Could he take us from a 4 win team to a 7 win team? Probably, could he take us to a 12 or 13 win team and a super bowl run? I don't see it in him... and that's what we need.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Wasn't it Baltimore at the time?
Yeah, I meant Colts, should have been more specific
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
There's no guarantee Luck is the next Elway and even if he is, he might pull a Rivers and demand to be traded.
1. I like that you first used Elway, but then switched to someone else when giving an example of someone who told the team that drafted him to trade him (something Elway did to Indy)
2. Manning (Eli), not Rivers.
Ha ha ha....Sorry, I was in a meeting at the time and my mind was elsewhere. Dang....I could have just kept Elway there. And man, it was Eli not Rivers. Ha ha ha...."you'll have to fogive my friend, he's a little slow."
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I don't remember where, but this morning I read that the Browns are the only team in the league that does not have a definitive answer at QB, RB, or WR. Not one guy capable of making a play.
Hell, the only playmaker we have is totally dependent upon the other team being dumb enough to kick him the ball.
Yet, the united cluelessness of this board wants to draft OL early...so they can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
the Browns are the only team in the league that does not have a definitive answer at QB, RB, or WR.
I agree that we don't have any of those positions filled definitively. I think we are the only ones though; the Seahawks (Tavaris Jackson/Charlie Whitehurst, Marshawn Lynch, and Sidney Rice) seem to have the same problem. I guess Rice is alright though. The Redskins have Beck/Grossman, Helu/Torain, and a whole bunch of nothing a WR. Denver has Tebow (maybe), McGahee (hardly a long term answer), and Eric Decker?
I know it's not your point, but it seems like there are at least a few others that are in the same situation as us.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
so they can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway
Wouldn't you agree that it seems like Greg Little at least has the potential to be a "playmaker"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,095 Likes: 294
Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Yet, the united cluelessness of this board wants to draft OL early...so that can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway
I'm one of those..and if you want to insult me..at least spell the word right...it's clueless... not cluelessness... ... also it's play makers... not playmakers..
Lineman are imo play makers... Line men are play makers by keeping the defensive players out of the offense's back field...and making plays by blocking and setting up protection for the QB to pass , or hand the ball off to your so called play maker...
If the RB is getting hit as soon as the ball is handed to him..How do you expect him to make a play ?
If the QB has a defender on him before he can step back and set...how is he to make a play ?
I personally get tired of seeing the Browns QB scrambling for his life... or the backs getting hit in the back field...
I'm old school.. I enjoy seeing battles on the lines...Line men busting up a Defensive player to protect his QB... So it gives the play makers a chance to be just that...
I also agree that certain athletes can over come situations and make plays... And I would love to have them on this team...But my clueless ass still loves to see a strong O line....Whether it be early or late in the draft...
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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+1
Build the O-line and defensive Front-7. Everything else after that is easy (ok, maybe not QB....but you get the idea).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Speaking of Keanu, why is he a former Ohio State QB in more than one movie? Weird, no?
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Speaking of Keanu, why is he a former Ohio State QB in more than one movie? Weird, no?
And both had awful last games while there too.....Johnny Utah blew his knee out in the Rose Bowl and then Falco choked in the Sugar Bowl (don't remember the details though).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Legend
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I won't care if we use every single draft pick on offense.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
so they can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway
Wouldn't you agree that it seems like Greg Little at least has the potential to be a "playmaker"?
Everyone has "potential".
Fact is that, right now, Greg Little averages 9 yards/reception. That is pathetic. There are several RB in the NFL with a higher yards/catch average. Most TE have a higher yards/catch average. Little shows some potential, but his lack of outright speed worries me. He is strong as all get out ..... with exceptional power ...... but has shown no real breakaway speed ..... or even above average speed. That is a concern for a WR.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 658
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
Yet, the united cluelessness of this board wants to draft OL early...so that can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway
I'm one of those..and if you want to insult me..at least spell the word right...it's clueless... not cluelessness... ... also it's play makers... not playmakers..
Lineman are imo play makers... Line men are play makers by keeping the defensive players out of the offense's back field...and making plays by blocking and setting up protection for the QB to pass , or hand the ball off to your so called play maker...
If the RB is getting hit as soon as the ball is handed to him..How do you expect him to make a play ?
If the QB has a defender on him before he can step back and set...how is he to make a play ?
I personally get tired of seeing the Browns QB scrambling for his life... or the backs getting hit in the back field...
I'm old school.. I enjoy seeing battles on the lines...Line men busting up a Defensive player to protect his QB... So it gives the play makers a chance to be just that...
I also agree that certain athletes can over come situations and make plays... And I would love to have them on this team...But my clueless ass still loves to see a strong O line....Whether it be early or late in the draft...
Ironically, that would be overcome, not over come. Don't pee over yourself about other people's spelling if you don't hold yourself to the same standard.
The point is to not reach for a lineman in the first round. If the guy is expected to still be there in the 2nd round, why waste a first round pick on him? It's just a clueless decision with all of our needs.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
so they can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway
Wouldn't you agree that it seems like Greg Little at least has the potential to be a "playmaker"?
Would you agree that because of the Pattern of Talent leaving Cleveland, that today, Greg Little has no more potential as a Brown than Jerome Harrisson had after his 1st season as a Brown, because Greg Little, will likely not be a Brown in 2 and a half years.
Hey! Since Reuben Droughns, and Joe Jurivicious, they haven't kept Any offensive skill position players for more than 2 and a half years, except?
Ben Watson?
Mohamad Massaquoi?
and Josh.
Did I miss anybody? 1st, 2nd or 3rd string? Offensive line doesn't count.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
2 First Round Picks -
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Drew Brees
3. Tom Brady
4. Matt Stafford
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Rothlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Cam Newton
9. Matt Ryan
10. Phillip Rivers
#1 First Round Pick -
11. Tony Romo
12. Michael Vick
13. Jay Cutler
14. Carson Palmer
#2 First Round Pick -
15. Andy Dalton
16. Mark Sanchez
17. Jason Campbell
18. Mark Sanchez
19. Josh Freeman
20. Joe Flacco
There's 20 guys (in no order) I'd give up picks for.
Well just because you don't know what you are doing...doesn't mean we have to join along.....Glad we have Heckert in the FO.....all I have to say on this post.... 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
2 First Round Picks -
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Drew Brees
3. Tom Brady
4. Matt Stafford
5. Eli Manning
6. Ben Rothlisberger
7. Matt Schaub
8. Cam Newton
9. Matt Ryan
10. Phillip Rivers
#1 First Round Pick -
11. Tony Romo
12. Michael Vick
13. Jay Cutler
14. Carson Palmer
#2 First Round Pick -
15. Andy Dalton
16. Mark Sanchez
17. Jason Campbell
18. Mark Sanchez
19. Josh Freeman
20. Joe Flacco
There's 20 guys (in no order) I'd give up picks for.
Well just because you don't know what you are doing...doesn't mean we have to join along.....Glad we have Heckert in the FO.....all I have to say on this post....
I would trade Alex Mack for any of those QBs (except maybe Palmer and Campbell)....we'd be a better team with a random 3rd round C and 1 of those QBs than Mack and McCoy...not even close
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
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Yet, the united cluelessness of this board wants to draft OL early...so that can see that those non playmakers ARE non playmakers anyway
Lineman are imo play makers... Line men are play makers by keeping the defensive players out of the offense's back field...and making plays by blocking and setting up protection for the QB to pass , or hand the ball off to your so called play maker...
I get you point, I just think that until we get somebody on this team capable of changing the game, creating a spark, doing something that your average grocery bagger isn't capable of doing, what we're seeing is what we're going to continue to see.
I don't consider OL playmakers, er... play makers, for this reason. Joe Thomas could be the best OL ever to sniff the field, but if the center misses his block, with a scrub RB, the plays dead. Adrian Peterson has the ability to make that guy miss, truck the LBer and outrun the safety to the endzone. We have nobody physically capable of just plain being better then other guy and putting points on the board. Or causing a turnover when the game feels like it's slipping away. Or getting a big stop on 3rd and 1 with the game on the line...
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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In past years, I've said we need to draft all front seven, all OL and DL, all defense and RT...
This year, I wouldn't be the least bit upset if our 1st 3 picks were trying to get the right guys at QB, RB, WR.
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Hall of Famer
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jc I just looked at some PSquads and rosters around the league to see if we're missing on some talent and saw something jaw dropping: GB has 11 rooks on their roster, a lot of them UDFAs and 13 2nd year players....so half their roster are basically greenhorns  A player to sign from a PS could be WR D.Harris from Dallas, he was their 6th rounder
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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