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With so many players hurt during camp and preseason, he is still learning a great deal about his team. Moore suffered a concussion on a minor hit so I have absolutely no problem with limiting him right now especially with the right side of the OL needing help with a TE. His reps should increase soon enough.
Right now I don't have a problem with the playcalling. On the 3rd and 1, Colt made a high pitch and just slowed up Smith maybe a half second, but that half second allowed the defender to get involved and make a terrific defensive play. Another half step and Smith probably was off to the races.
We are running a timing based offense and our timing is wayyyy off. It will improve and we should see improvement against the Raiders. This time off is invaluable.
The only coaching issue I have is at the end of the half and the chaos. Shurmur should have made the refs reset the playclock and called timeout. Even 3 would have been big at that point to enter the half on a high note.
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.." I would like to see Holmgren answer some questions, it almost seems like he has gone into hiding as I havnt read or seen a peep from him.. "
Ditto on this !
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Yeah, I'm getting tired of no one asking when he's going to take over as coach, when he's going to get rid of Shurmur and start coaching, and when he's going to be our coach. 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Yeah, I'm getting tired of no one asking when he's going to take over as coach, when he's going to get rid of Shurmur and start coaching, and when he's going to be our coach.
You heard it here first Holmgren is taking over as coach...Is that what you are saying? What is that? it is going to happen over the bye week?
Joe Thomas #73
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Quote:
bi week?
They have a month/week/day dedicated to everything now, don't they?
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Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Quote:
Yeah, I'm getting tired of no one asking when he's going to take over as coach, when he's going to get rid of Shurmur and start coaching, and when he's going to be our coach.
My comment had nothing to with a Coaching change ! .. I would however like to hear what the President of the Browns has to say about the first four games as we are at our by week !.. " Clear " 
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Oh, I don't have a problem with wanting to hear what he thinks.
I have a problem with, when he does come out and speak, we don't get anything substantive out of him because the press just keeps asking "when are you coming back to coach?"
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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With that as the only question these "Johnny One-Notes" seem capable of asking, I'd stay away from them, too.
Now, if they could honor a 'gag order' about that one question, it might be interesting to hear what The Prez has to say about his team's first quarter of the pro season.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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The man has some very impressive Coaching credentials : I would like to get an honest assessment of where he thinks we are ... Good and Bad ..
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The man has some very impressive Coaching credentials : I would like to get an honest assessment of where he thinks we are ... Good and Bad ..
So would I but the only way to hear that would be to bug his office. If they did get him in front of the microphone he might give some "We need to work on...." but he's not going to be any more harsh than that.
I would think the reason he is staying away from the microphone is exactly for that reason, he wants to let Shurmur speak for his team. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get some kind of a mid-season interview with Holmgren/Heckert to talk a little about what they see...
yebat' Putin
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So far I'm not a big Shurmur fan. But I don't put it all on him either.
I keep telling myself this is another rebuild. Then I think, I hope we win today! Forgetting that even if we do we still suck at pretty much everything.
I think I'll just wait and see.
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I just don't get emotionally invested in Browns games anymore.
I still never miss a game, I'll still support the team, but I'm not letting them ruin anymore Sundays.
No more driving 4 hours for EVERY home game, no more having huge football parties at the house for Browns games, etc. Watch the game at home without anyone else, be done by 4pm, and have the rest of the afternoon/evening to do whatever I want to do.
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Holmgren is too busy with the day-to-day operations of the entire club to give an interview like this. You know, like instituting game day policies at the stadium forcing fans to sit down 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I get the feeling Shurmur is treating the season like a 16 game preason so he can figure out his team. And I dont like it.
I get the feeling that we have a QB that hasn't played a full 16 game season, a new offense, a new head coach, young receivers and some holes on the offensive line.
What was everyone expecting this year really, I dont get it.
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This whole thread is killing me. Fire the coach, the players are disgruntled, Holmgren is hiding. What a friggin joke the fans have become. The lockout killed any time this new staff had to install a new offense and defense. You had rookies with no OTAs or offseason programs. Then when camp started, you had guys show up injured, and many injured for most of camp. I can't believe the knee jerk assinine complaints I have read in this thread. The writer of the article got just wgat he wanted, controversy. Ask any player if they want more snaps and see what they say, especially right after a horrible loss. The playcalling is fine. If Smith breaks that tackle Shurmur is a genius. If Montario doesn't drop 4 passes, everybody would be calling Hillis a crybaby. This whole thing is foolish. The funny thing about this thread, is noone is calling out McCoy. IMO, the offensive woes lie more on his lack of performance than who is on the field. Watch the game again, recievers are open, the passes are bad. Hillis missed time with strep throat and admitted he lost 15 lbs. or something like that. Knowing that he was weakened from being sick just a couple days ago, and with Hardesty having a good game last week, IMO Shurmur did the right thing.I don't think he ever intended to replace Hillis. Just a couple weeks ago everyone bitched that Hardesty wasn't being used. What a bunch of fickle fans. This team is bad due to the youth, new schemes, minimal preparation in the offseason, and injuries during a shortened camp. As for McCoy, I feel last years couple of good games may just be a fluke due to no film on him. We as fans see his limitations, and I have to believe those on here mentioning them before the season might just be right. They got two weeks to sort things out somewhat. But this assinine talk of the coach losing the team already is just crap. These players to a T have said how much they like Shurmur. It has been reported repeatedly how they are buying into the system. Now because some reporter cornered a couple of frustrated players after a bad loss, the whole thing is doomed......what a friggin joke we as fans have become. Just one more thing. Why in the #$%^ would Holmgren go to the media and basically pass judgement on his new coach? I'm sure that will build confidence between the players and their coach What other team president comments on what happens on game day during the season........none. Just because Holmgren was a coach, doesn't mean he should do it, and if he did he would be a detriment to the team. He is not going to coach this team, so some of you are just going to have to get over it. 
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Watch the game again, recievers are open,
How do you do that on TV?
Joe Thomas #73
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Watch the game again, recievers are open,
Agree 100% on this. I remember thinking most of the game that I wish Colt would hit someone in stride. He over-threw, under-threw, and behind his recievers all day. I don't think I saw more than one pass (the one to Hardesty on the side line) that hit a reciever in stride.
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The funny thing about this thread, is noone is calling out McCoy
Good God, they're calling out McCoy in every other thread in this and the gameday forums....I think the point's been made.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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During the game on replays, many times, and I mean many times you could see the receivers running their routes. The shots are different from the live action. One that comes to mind is a camera angle from behind McCoy during a replay. You see the receiver on the left side a few yards past the DB, and another going across the middle. The one on the crossing route is open, then covered, then open on the right side. The whole time McCoy never looks left. If you pay attention during the replays you will see stuff like this.My son who is a 16 high school receiver was the one who noticed it first. So we rewatched the game and I saw it a few more times. Even during the broadcast it was mentioned by the announcers.
I'm not trying to say I broke down tape, but I know what I saw. If you are trying to defend McCoy, fine, but his play yesterday was horrible, and he is showing signs of trends. I am a McCoy fan, and have backed him up many times to this point, but the reality is in the games. He was very bad yesterday, and between him and a couple major breakdowns on defense the team was beat badly. Many more contributed, Hardesty dropping balls, and poor safety play. But the QB was a major part of that loss, and one that should not be overlooked or explained away with blame to others.
#gmstrong
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My opinion is I'll bring back a saying I had with Butch.....I am not totally ready to commit to it....it's still early.....but it's starting to look like Shurmers ego is starting to interfere with making sound football decisions.
10 carries for Hillis isn't a shame, it's a crime.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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But shurmur seems like a smart guy, hopefully he'll figure it out.. I'm sure he's talking with Holmgren this morning about those kinda things.
if he is talking to Holmgren about these kinda things then the guy DOESNT BELONG as a Head coach in the NFL
4th an an inch and you punt? doing that stuff shows no confidence in your team, and is infact a big step in losing the lockeroom...that worse then Crennell kicking a field goal....
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Quote:
Pat Shurmur must silence locker room rumblings from Browns
By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports columnist
Published: October 2, 2011 - 09:30 PM
CLEVELAND: Players on the wrong side of a 31-13 drubbing should go away angry.
But rumblings of discontent in the Browns’ locker room after the visiting Tennessee Titans blew them out Sunday must be nipped in the bud by rookie coach Pat Shurmur before they turn into something bigger.
Running back Peyton Hillis and tight end Evan Moore could not hide their frustration about their involvement in the offense before they left Cleveland Browns Stadium.
Second-year running back Montario Hardesty shared the workload with Hillis, who was recovered from last week’s bout with strep throat. Down 21-6 at halftime and forced to throw, quarterback Colt McCoy targeted Hardesty seven times in the third and fourth quarters and Hillis five, even though Hardesty dropped four passes during the game.
Hillis finished with 10 rushes for 46 yards and five catches for 23 yards, and Hardesty contributed seven carries for 22 yards and five receptions for 49 yards.
But when Shurmur gambled on fourth-and-1 from the Tennessee 41 with the Browns trailing 14-6 with about six minutes left in the second half, he tried a flip to rookie Armond Smith, who was stuffed by Titans safety Michael Griffin. That didn’t show much faith in Hillis, who tied for 12th in the league in third-and-1 rushing conversions last season, making 10 out of 12.
“He’s the fastest guy we’ve got,” Shurmur said of Smith. “We felt like if we got him to the perimeter, it was a chance for a big play.”
Hillis had been dropped in his tracks on the previous down, a third-and-1, and didn’t sound like he liked that call very much. Hillis lined up at fullback with Hardesty at tailback, and Shurmur dialed up a dive play to try and surprise the Titans.
“Take it up with the coach. I’m just running the play as he tells me to do,” Hillis said.
That wasn’t the only question that drew that kind of reaction from Hillis.
Asked if he was frustrated over the way the offensive personnel were used, Hillis said: “You have to take that up with the coaches. That’s nothing I can predict. I have no control over that.”
Pressed on whether he needed more involvement to keep his rhythm going, Hillis said: “I’ve always found myself to be a guy who gets in a rhythm and gets things done. What the game plan and what the coaches presented, that’s what they wanted to go with. Being a player you follow the coach’s orders and do what he tells us to do and you respect that.”
Hillis rushed for 1,177 yards and 11 touchdowns last season, when he was the Browns’ workhorse, a worn-down one by the end of the season.
“I think having two running backs is an advantage,” Browns center Alex Mack said. “I think it keeps them fresh. I think they’re both good runners. Having the threat of either one helps our offense. I think we should find a way to use both of them effectively. I think that’s very possible.”
Shurmur hasn’t found a way yet, at least if the questions in Hillis’ mind are any indication.
Some of Hillis’ emotion could come from the fact that his agent and the Browns have failed to agree on a contract extension that seemed like a top priority as the season opener approached. Hillis, in his fourth year, will be an unrestricted free agent in 2012 if no deal is reached. He’s making $600,000 in 2011.
Then there was Adam Schefter’s report on ESPN’s Sunday NFL Countdown that some of Hillis’ teammates had privately questioned why he couldn’t play a week ago, wondering if his contract status played a part.
The Browns do not seem to have a running back controversy, at least not yet. Most NFL teams have gone to a two-back system, and Hillis has to realize that being spelled by Hardesty will extend his career.
But if Hardesty’s playing time is eroding Hillis’ confidence and making him question his value to the Browns, it must be addressed by Shurmur immediately. This is not the time to divide the locker room, as the Tim Couch-Kelly Holcomb controversy did in 2003.
If the contract is Hillis’ issue, Shurmur cannot let it erode team chemistry.
Hillis is not the only player questioning the inconsistency of his role in the first four games.
Moore seemed just as miffed after contributing only one catch for 15 yards and being targeted only one other time in a game when McCoy set a Browns’ single-game mark with 61 pass attempts. Moore expected to be a big part of the offense after signing a two-year contract extension Sept. 8 for just under $3 million per year.
He played only eight snaps the previous two games against the Indianapolis Colts and the Miami Dolphins and judging from his mood, Sunday was no better.
Asked if he felt frustration over his number not being called, Moore laughed and said: “I know what you’re saying. Yeah, it’s tough. It’s very tough.” When the inconsistency of him getting in for a couple of plays and then disappearing again was brought up, Moore said, “Yeah, I agree.”
The Browns have a bye next weekend before traveling to Oakland on Oct. 16. Asked if that issue would be addressed in the next two weeks, he said: “I don’t know. I honestly don’t know. I don’t know.”
If Sunday’s discontent from Moore and Hillis was an indication of problems bubbling beneath the surface, Shurmur needs to hash them out with his players face to face. He has the perfect time to do it with this week’s bye.
If players have lost confidence in Shurmur as an offensive coordinator, that may need a month of Sundays to repair. If Shurmur can bridge the gap with Hillis and Moore, it could be a big step in restoring their faith.
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IF and a big IF this is true....your seeing the beginning of Shurmur "losing the lockeroom"
if this is true...shurmur has already begun to lose the team.....how sad....
when the game was 13-6 Shurm abandoned the run alltogether in the 2nd quarter for pretty much no reason....leaving Hillis(your best playmaker on O) to languish on the sidelines....and Evan Moore (who is probably our best pass catcher) sits on the sidelines and hardly plays.....
what kind a message do you think that sends to the rest of your team?
The look on McCoy's face Sunday after the game was a look i have never seen from McCoy...it was a look of complete frustration...a look that he was wondering "what in the world kinda play calling was this"..of course McCoy won't throw anyone under the bus and say anything, he is a good kid...but i saw the look...I KNOW the look....
Shurmur was throwing the ball for the sake of throwing the ball...61 pass attempts? thats just unacceptable....
Steve Mariucci said it best on NFL Network this morning:
"Colt McCoy is a young 2nd year guy only starting his 12ths game, in a new system and you throw the ball 61 times? bad things are going to happen"
Mooch stopped short of asking "what is wrong with you not running the ball and using Hillis" but thats only because him and Holmgren are very close friends...if it wasn't for Holmgren...they would have tore Shurmur a new one...
The playcalling from Shurmur on sunday was the WORSE play calling in the expansion era history of this football team(99)....even Chris Palmer didn't call such a bad game, Even Mo Carthon didn't call that poor of a game....Even the moron Brian Daboll knew you had to run the ball somewhat.....
Not Even Holmgren would have called a game like that....Shurmur was throwing for the sake of throwing...there was no rhyme or reason for it....
Also before anyone blames McCoy...the Titans played a lot of 7 and 8 men in coverage and mixed their pressure packages well...they had McCoy confused...but you can do that when the opposing playcaller is being one dimensional....had we actually commited to running the ball and forced the Titans to be honest on D...McCoy may not have been as confused as he was...Even Joe Flacco struggles when the team can't run the ball...and we made no concerted effort to run the ball at all...
as i said IF a big IF this is true...then Shurmur has already begun to lose the lockeroom only a mere 4 games in and thats pathetic.....
my only worry is if we tank this season or what not...Will Holmgren be able to swallow his pride and admit he made a mistake? thats the question.
We will just have to wait and see....but so far...Shurmur's play calling has left a lot to be desire...
I don't ask for much Shurmur...just run the ball atleast 30 times a game....that gives you 30-35 passes to get your throw fix on...because honestly...i don't want to go through another head coach....but if you keep up this throwing nonsense...your going to throw your way right out of a job...
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There's no discontent and Shurmur's not losing the team. I heard both of those interviews and they were frustrated at losing the game...nothing more. I did hear reporters badgering and trying to force controversial answers.....and here they are blowing things out of proportion so they have a story to write. The Browns have problems but Shurmur losing the team isn't one of them.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Quote:
There's no discontent and Shurmur's not losing the team. I heard both of those interviews and they were frustrated at losing the game...nothing more. I did hear reporters badgering and trying to force controversial answers.....and here they are blowing things out of proportion so they have a story to write. The Browns have problems but Shurmur losing the team isn't one of them.
Yup,, that's the way I heard it also.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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By Marla Ridenour
The writer should be banned from the press room for this poor attempt to make a name for themselves by taking normal company line statements and trying to use them to prove the team is in chaos. Writer no one has heard of, just happens to have the inside scoop. O yea this is real believable. This is the kind of stuff that really steams me.
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Just about anyone who follows the Browns should know who Marla Ridenour and the Akron Beacon Journal are...
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Marla Ridenour is a well respected, veteran sportswriter who has covered the Browns for 30 some years.
She's also not generally given to hyperbole and/or controversy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Also, if anyone watches the video, look at Hillis' body language when he is asked about when guys are in the game ...... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...76-f03061e9478eIt's about 19 seconds in. It is the only time he looks right down at the floor, and he does so repeatedly ..... like "I better phrase this just right" ........ He keeps looking straight down at the floor, like he didn't want to slip and say what he really wanted to say.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Never heard of her but after the last migraine I had, my memory isn't what it used to be. I still think it is total garbage and a real cheap way to get a headline.
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Again, look at Hillis' body language when he is asked about playing time and carries compared to his body language in the rest of the interview.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It sounded to me, when I first heard it, that he was a bit annoyed at Shurmer when he kept telling them to "ask the coach, I just run what coach tells me".
I've listened again, and it still sounds that way.
Moore maybe less annoyed, but those "I don't know" comments do not fill me with enthusiasm.
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Quote:
Quote:
I get the feeling Shurmur is treating the season like a 16 game preason so he can figure out his team. And I dont like it.
I get the feeling that we have a QB that hasn't played a full 16 game season, a new offense, a new head coach, young receivers and some holes on the offensive line.
What was everyone expecting this year really, I dont get it.
2-3 wins. The fans calling for McCoy followed by calling for Shurmur followed by calling for Holmgren.
I got laughed at in the offseason for making such "ridiculous" statements. Well, it's week 5 and here we are!
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Quote:
It sounded to me, when I first heard it, that he was a bit annoyed at Shurmer when he kept telling them to "ask the coach, I just run what coach tells me".
I've listened again, and it still sounds that way.
Moore maybe less annoyed, but those "I don't know" comments do not fill me with enthusiasm.
I heard the clip a few times yesterday morning on the drive home.....I agree.....Hillis wasn't happy.
I think any shot at signing Hillis soon is going to be put on hold until Hillis finds out if he is going to be used or if he has a coach who is going to bury his talent in his quest to pass the ball every down.
Just a bit of a rant.....typical Browns....when we have guys like Terry Kirby we seek to be balanced and gave that scrub the ball. Now we have Hillis and give it to him 10 friggen times while we toss the ball around 60 times.
Do any of you ever feel like punching someone in the face??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Do any of you ever feel like punching someone in the face??
No.
Defenses have figured out how to stop us. Expect more of the same unfortunately.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Do any of you ever feel like punching someone in the face??
No.
Defenses have figured out how to stop us. Expect more of the same unfortunately.
Maybe so, but I can't expect that. I expect to win. 
I do think only giving the ball to Hillis 10 times is pretty stupid
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hall of Famer
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j/k
No excuses for the way we played Sunday, but as for Shurmur, I wasnt to happy with the hiring but after seeing him since the return of football, I'm pretty happy with what i've seen, still learning how to run the boat, but isnt here to boost his ego, or be a media spot light, he's here to do a job and works hard at it.
As for Payton only getting the ball 10 times, I feel had alot to do with our defence giving up 21 quick points, were down 21-6 early and yes we tossed the game plan a bit early but down 21-6 with the way our offence has been playing, well running the ball with Payton wanst gonna get us back in the game, we had to throw, Now if the Defence would have kept the game close 13-6 or so I do think we would have seen more payton, Wasnt Shurmur plan to keep Payton out of action, it was dictated to him bye our defence.
Last edited by ClayM57; 10/04/11 06:48 AM.
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I remember reading about players saying how they like Shurmur, they like how he treats the players, etc.
Now, we lose a bad game, guys are frustrated, and suddenly he's losing the team?
Doesn't that say something about the players as well that they turn on the coach that quickly?
And, at first, people were talking about Hillis sitting out last week because of his contract situation. When that didn't gain traction, they started on the "he's mad at Shurmur" angle.
Should Hillis and Moore be upset? Hell yes. The entire team and fanbase should be upset.
Is Shurmur struggling at times? You bet.
But, once again, after FOUR games as a head coach, we're ready to throw the guy under the bus?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Dawg Talker
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I don't think it has gone so far as "losing the locker room", but there is concern about how the team is being run.
Putting in the young guys is good, but causes issues. The good news is we now know that Hardesty can run, and block, and needs to work on his drops.
I was thinking about all the 3rd and short plays. I remember several where we had a 7 or 8 yard gain on 1st, then ran on 2nd and short and got stuffed. The 3rd down play would then be a pass or something around the outside. I don't know if he lost confidence in the interior line blocking, or just wisely realized that it is inconsistent. IMO with Peyton you give him the rock again.
It's almost like we are running an extended pre-season in many ways, testing out different players and schemes. Short-term loss for long-term gain, at least hopefully that would be the plan. Although, at 2-2 four games in, I mean that's not world-beater status but it's damn near the best we've been in ten years, maybe it is time to finalize some personnel and play-calling.
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No, and the fact that apparently there is a rat on the team makes me sick.
Last year, Mangini was too tough on them, they complain, now they complain with Shurmur?
These players need to grow up, they know better.
The fact that there is problems this early into a regime is telling more of the current personnel than the new coach.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is Shurmur hurting this team?
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