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Weeden, you don't mean the kid from oklahoma state do you?
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Not sure if this is your point, YTown, but it looks like a solid case for building up the team and then plugging in the right QB.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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it seems like a simple question to answer...but,
Andrew Luck v. a starting RT, starting LB, starting WR, and starting CB (to push Sheldon to safety?)
we would most likely have to give up our first 3 picks this year and a 2nd next year, or 3 1st and a 2nd...I'd imagine 4 picks within the first 2 rounds, which if done right, and done the way its been done the past 2 years, and done the way our team is at this point talent-wise.
I'd take 4 starters to Andrew Luck, we can find a QB through something else, or get a player like Matt Flynn (i think a Matt Schaub quality-clone)
Would you give up a starting RT, LB, WR and CB to grab a Peyton Manning?
I would, in a heartbeat.
This is a QB driven league. You need a great QB to win championships.
I would give up OUR RT(Pashos), LB(Gocong), WR(Mass) and CB(Brown) for Manning 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Weeden, you don't mean the kid from oklahoma state do you?
Yes I do mean him....right now he's the 2nd best QB prospect, he IS 28yo, so he will be available. He's good and scouts love him, he has great tape
#gmstrong
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Weeden, you don't mean the kid from oklahoma state do you?
Yes I do mean him....right now he's the 2nd best QB prospect, he IS 28yo, so he will be available. He's good and scouts love him, he has great tape
he's going to be 29 yo in his rookie NFL year and while he has looked okay, he is a guy who gets to throw to Blackmon (who might be the best WR in college).
if you are talking about drafting him in the 4th round or lower, I can get onboard with that as he does have alot of the skillset. anything higher I think would be a reach.
#gmstrong
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Weeden, you don't mean the kid from oklahoma state do you?
Yes I do mean him....right now he's the 2nd best QB prospect, he IS 28yo, so he will be available. He's good and scouts love him, he has great tape
he's going to be 29 yo in his rookie NFL year and while he has looked okay, he is a guy who gets to throw to Blackmon (who might be the best WR in college).
if you are talking about drafting him in the 4th round or lower, I can get onboard with that as he does have alot of the skillset. anything higher I think would be a reach.
He will go much higher...even cbs has him at #56 overall right now, and that list includes high end JRs (not all will enter the draft)...and once GMs re-evaluate tape he will only rise...he still has half the season + Bowl game to play but right now if you want him you have to take him late 1st or 2nd...and hey, why not draft both Blackmon AND Weeden with our 2 1st rounders?
I really could care less about age...his body hasn't taken more hits than the other QBs and he starts with 0 NFL hits just like any other rookie QB...QBs can last into their mid to late 30s
#gmstrong
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Tell me who on this lost he is better than:
1. Luck
2 Barkley
3 Jones
4 Lindley
5 Griffin
6 Tannehill
7 Moore
8 Foles
9 Cousins
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hey, why not draft both Blackmon AND Weeden with our 2 1st rounders?
because Weeden is not a 1st round QB IMO (fully onboard with Blackmon - that guy is ridiculous though it's a tough call between him and some of the other WRs that could come out as well)
yes, QBs can last longer than other skill positions. however, few last past their early to mid 30s (even the good ones) unless as part-time backups like Collins.
it will take a couple of years to groomèany new QB into the NFL to adjust for scheme, speed, and all the other intracacies. So, we are now talking about a 31yo QB who is finally ready to lead a playoff team if he doesn't bust?
you talk alot about value in the draft, which I agree with. the problem with Weeden is that even if things go well with him, the window of opportunity is very narrow compared to the other QBs in this class. Therefore, his value must take a significant hit as a result.
1st round QB? If he is, I hope it is for a different team.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 10/06/11 11:02 AM.
#gmstrong
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Tell me who on this lost he is better than:
1. Luck
2 Barkley
3 Jones
4 Lindley
5 Griffin
6 Tannehill
7 Moore
8 Foles
9 Cousins
I already answered your "question"...which part of "right now he's the 2nd best QB prospect" didn't you get? Barkley, Jones and Griffin are JRs..I doubt all 3 of them enter the draft, maybe only 1 or even none of them enter since the #1 QB slot is occupied and many QB needy teams have drafted their QB last draft..I see at least 2 of those 3 return to school
Have you seen Lindley against Michigan? Foles? Cousins? Really? Moore is another Colt Hobbit Spread circus QB..I'm talking real NFL QBs here...
I'm not saying Weeden's the next big franchise QB but for the reduced "price" he's a solid bet imho he's at least as good and in my opinion better than any other QB named Luck who could enter this draft....his age and being redheaded will drop him some...if we can get him in the 2nd or 3rd because of it, even better since then it's more like an open competition and not a sword hanging over Colt's head
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All valid points...my reasoning with taking Weeden even in the 1st would be "opportunity"....we have the opportunity with all those picks and value is totally different when it comes to QBs...you see a franchise QB talent? You get him no matter where or how old he is....Watkins was a 1st round G this year and he was 27...a GUARD...QB have so much more value and it takes just 1 team to see you as a franchise QB and I can't see at least 1 team come up with that stamp on him when they evaluate his tape...that's why I think he will "climb" (on real GMs board he already is much higher Im sure) into the 1st easily and if we would take him I would be ok with it
#gmstrong
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Barkley, Jones and Griffin are JRs..I doubt all 3 of them enter the draft, maybe only 1 or even none of them enter since the #1 QB slot is occupied and many QB needy teams have drafted their QB last draft..I see at least 2 of those 3 return to school
Okay so your entire argument is based on hypotheticals that don’t even make sense. So you believe at least one of the three I mentioned will enter? So who is Weeden better than Griffin, Barkley or Jones? Also there are still a significant amount of teams that need a quarterback:
Dolphins
Chiefs
Seahawks
Denver
Cleveland
Washington
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Have you seen Lindley against Michigan? Foles? Cousins? Really?
Yes let’s judge Lindley based on one game, brilliant. Why not foles? He has good size very strong arm and is accurate. Cousins and Moore I could see your argument.
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I'm not saying Weeden's the next big franchise QB but for the reduced "price" he's a solid bet imho he's at least as good and in my opinion better than any other QB named Luck who could enter this draft....his age and being redheaded will drop him some...if we can get him in the 2nd or 3rd because of it, even better since then it's more like an open competition and not a sword hanging over Colt's head
I wouldn’t even spend a 5th round pick on him. He will be nothing more than a backup.
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I think Tannehill will end up the best QB out of this class.
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I have faith in H&H's evaluation skills....I just hope Colt doesn't become a problem since Heckert never really wanted to draft him, so maybe the Walrus wouldn't be ok to draft another QB fairly high while Heckert would like to do so...or let's say Holmgren and Shurmur want to continue to work with Colt but Heckert doesn't feel that way? He has final say but he has to be a team player then...what I'm trying to say is: we could lose Heckert because of this easily...he's a Dolphins fan and there will be soon new jobs in Miami, where he might get the actual power he here has only on paper...I just don't want to lose Heckert who for me is the most competent of the 3 and the 1 I trust the most..it's a worst case sceanrio but considering how Colt got here I don't think it's far fetched to think this could lead to an offseason problem between Pres, GM and HC...esp. considering the picks we have to move the draft at our will....we have to know what we want and the 3 better be on the same page about Colt...they obviously weren't when he was drafted, sooo..I'm just saying
#ducktales
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here's a valid point....colt will get 2 years.....then a decision will be made. Next year we'll draft more linemen, db's, and linebackers.
Then we'll get some value picks for recievers and whatever else they feel we need.
How about we let our youngsters develop and learn the game.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Did "youngster" Beau Bell get 30+ starts? Or Sowells? or Maiava? "to see" if he's any good? Should every mid round pick get 2 years worth of starts before any decision on him is made? If not on lower value positions like G and LB why on earth should we go on "let's wait" mode with themost important position on the field?
The NFL isn't about "youngsters getting time to learn the game"...that's what you do in College, in practice as backups or PS players..but NOT on sundays when the games count...you develop "developmental" players in the background and THEN throw them out sundays "to see" after 2 years on your bench, NOT wasting 2 real years "to find out", that's what bad teams (sometimes have to) do....Colt is a 3rd round QB, he'd be a backup on most other teams....I still don't get what makes him so special to committ this and the next 2 season on him? He was forced onto the field and now he's our starter AND franchise QB? Really? What was so impressive again? The garbage time TD against the Steelers in his 1st game? or the "comeback" against the Jets after their kicker kept us into the game long enough? Is the bar really that low? 4 "not so bad" games with DCs having no tape on him and he's annointed our franchise QB? Sounds pretty crazy and hyped up to me and not that that never happened before with Brownsfans and their QBs...no thanks, I want a real QB, not a Hobbit one
#gmstrong
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Did Beau Bell or Sowells show ANY promise, at any point during their time here?
Nope.
Has Colt shown some promise?
Yes, he has.
Argue all you want if he's the guy or not, but right now he's the best we have, and he HAS shown some promise.
Can he build off of it?
I don't know.
Neither do you.
But to act like he's in the same category as Bell and Sowell is laughable.
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If not on lower value positions like G and LB why on earth should we go on "let's wait" mode with themost important position on the field?
Because it has proven to work in the past?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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He can also lay a mean hit after an INT.
I love that clip... (youtube is blocked @work right now).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Can we please stop the Luck talk. WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET LUCK. ZERO CHANCE. Not only won't we have the 1st pick, but the team with that pick isn't going to trade it since everyone thinks Luck is the second coming of Manning and like Django/Ytown keep saying you don't pass on a franchise QB.
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The NFL isn't about "youngsters getting time to learn the game"...that's what you do in College,
Well he did have a *few* wins in college and had a little success ... if that's your argument.. . . .
But I think the situation with Colt is more along the lines of the adversity he has faced.
If we would have hypothetically traded for any other QB the day that the lockout ended ... I don't think more than maybe 4 or 5 of them would have any more success with our offense currently.
Roethlisberger? looks horrible so far. Vick? Can't finish a game. Manning? Hasn't played a snap. Brady? Threw 4 picks to Buffalo to lose the game. Sanchez? Do I have to compare? Rivers? He's on pace for 32 turnovers ... Even Ryan? A whopping 6.9 yards per attempt despite having the weapons of White, Jones, Gonzo, Turner, Douglas - and they are 2-2 by the way.
A LOT of qb's are showing glaring weaknesses so far if you want to be nit picky.
Personally I'm happy with Colt because YES he has a lot to improve upon ... but despite the lockout, fluctuating line, offseason turnover, new system, and the fact he hasn't played a full season yet (not to mention the Mangini regime allegedly thinking he had the bubonic plagues and avoided him) ... he's still on pace for the following:
24 TD's 12 Int's 3936 yards with another 140 yards rushing. Add in 24 sacks and 0 fumbles lost.
Aaron Rodgers stats last year?
28 TD's 11 Int's 3922 yards with another 356 rushing. Add in 31 sacks and 1 fumble lost.
Imagine Colt with a little more than 4 weeks in the same offense as the starter ... and imagine him with a Bona-Fide #1 WR weapon.
That's why I say give him a little time ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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As for the Colts...without Manning sure theyre much worse...However, look at the difference in them with Painter and Collins.
The idea of adding Collins was incredibly flawed from the start. He's good, but he's good in an NFL offense, the Colts offense under Manning is something different entirely. Painter can run it and while he's not very good, he had the Colts in place to win the game with one more drive (in his first start ever). I look at the first 4 games this season for them and say...lets hold on, lets see what they do NOW with Painter from here on out and see how much Manning really means to that team.
Moreso, their OL is much worse than its been in the past. and has been trending downward in past years...now theyve just lost 2 more, while having turnover anyway between last year and this year. So...I fully believe they would have been worse this year, ESPECIALLY with the uptick in the records of Tennessee and Houston.
But...we'll see how they go from here on out when Painter gets time to sync up with his guys.
As for other things stated so far.
Weedon? are you sure his last name isnt Weinke?
If the Browns happen to go 8-8 v. this schedule...We play Oakland (2-2), Seattle (1-3), SF (3-1), Houston (3-1), STL (0-4), Jax (1-3), Cincy (2-2), Bal (3-1), Pit (2-2), AZ (1-3), Bal (3-1), Pit (2-2)...4 games against teams over .500, and 4 against teams that are .500. 8 games against teams that may go to the playoffs...
That means, and looking at it objectively and record based...we'd win 4 games taking us to 6-10, and win 2 of the games against teams with the same record...8-8. That would mean, we beat who were supposed to, and lose to who were supposed to based on the team. That'd mean that we played well enough to win games and with this team, we'd have done well enough.
Saying winning 8 is a given with our schedule is just false. Theres a lot of good teams left on our schedule. Lets see what we do, if we win 8, and its not in spite of Colt, we'll be fine going forward.
If we do make a move, im more on the lines of lets find someone...forget Luck people, we arent getting him. Flynn is out best option there...
other idea...someone said bring in a backup plan. This is what we've done better than any team in the NFL right now outside of GB. We have a guy who has played a lot in the NFL and has done a decent job in his time in Seneca Wallace. Also a guy that has run routes as a WR. Also we have Thaddeus Lewis who has shown in his time that he can make throws and complete a high percentage. Our backup plan right now is a veteran guy who can come in and not Painter up our season, and a developmental guy who if the wheels fall off, will be intriguing and interesting and potentially good. Thats a solid backup plan.
again towards Colt...the kid is working to improve, and has shown tangible improvements, not so much in stats, but in the way hes played the game. Look at what we've said hes done poorly. the biggest gripe was that he wasnt staying in the pocket. now he's doing that. Weve said he has held the ball too long and isnt setting his feet, thats next. Thats what i look to see him improve.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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No none of those guys did, but you know what? Holmgren seems to think that you aren't truely able to evaluate a qb without 32 starts....under the same offense, with the same coach.
You call it "just wait" I'm sure they just call it learning the entire playbook, getting comfortable with receivers, seeing tons of defensive fronts......experience to put it bluntly.
He didn't say anything about guards, or linebackers...some of those guys aren't even here, and who knows what Maiava will become in a year or two. How many times have we saw pitt plug in a lower round lb, and they don't miss a beat....maybe the guy had a weak lower body coming out of college, or poor technique....two years of coaching and lifting later he's a force.
I won't debate that higher round picks are supposed to be more ready for the nfl, and that lower round picks have issues, and are more of projects....thats the truth.
Right now we are talking about the hardest position on the team to learn, even in the best of circumstances...throw in rookie guards, rookie recievers, and and entire team learning a new system and i can only think one thing.....its gonna take time.
I could think of a multitude of reasons why any play fails, and its not all the qb...i can think of a multitude of reasons how a qb screws up a play too.
I'm tired of the circus that has been the browns....new coachs, new offensive coordinators, new defenses....massive player turnover, poor drafts....we've had cincy-i-tus.....
Lerner brought in a respected guy in Holmgren to build us a front office and team...the guy knows a ton about qb's. He's put a good front office in place...we've got good coaches everywhere...we lack experience, and a few playmakers.
Maybe colt has it maybe he doesn't, but i can guarantee that holmgren gives him every chance to succeed, and all the help he needs.
Right now the jury's still out, you act like the verdict is in. Patience...we're not even to the point where draft picks might not make the team.
We're not filling holes with expensive fa's anymore, we're building a team the right way thru the draft...players will either grow into servicable players, or be released and replaced.
If colt don't cut it then it will happen to him to, i just happen to think your time-frame is off by a mile.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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I'm just glad Mike Holmgren is running the show.
I have been talking about having a backup plan in place and I really do feel that Holmgren feels the same way.
When he first came here in one of his conferences he said he would like to draft a qb every year or something along those lines. And the proof is in the pudding, when he coached Seattle he drafted a quarterback 5 out of the 9 years he coached and i'm sure he brought in a few through free agency besides Hasslebeck.
If Colt has question marks you better believe Holmgren is going to pull rank and bring us a guy in through the draft.
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Supposedly the Browns really like the QB they picked up from the Rams on waivers. When they claimed him they said that he's an ideal WCO type QB ..... decent arm, excellent accuracy, solid mobility, intelligent .....
Who knows? Maybe he's their backup plan right now?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Thaddeus Lewis, I hope he's not the back-up plan as he's not exactly the prototypical QB at 6'2" 200lbs.
And I am sure they do like him. They like Seneca Wallace too but i'm sure they don't want him as thier starter.
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What was so impressive again? The garbage time TD against the Steelers in his 1st game? or the "comeback" against the Jets after their kicker kept us into the game long enough? Is the bar really that low? 4 "not so bad" games with DCs having no tape on him and he's annointed our franchise QB?
Here's what happened... the whole world, to a man, knew that Colt was going to get killed by the Steelers, (ala Frye in the '07 opener), and the collective wince was so great that it was actually audible.
But he didn't get killed. He stood up to it with poise. He showed the game is not too big for him as we saw the opposite from Frye and Quinn and all too often Anderson. And although he didn't really do squat it appeared that if he could stand up to that in his first start then he just might have something.
Then, he not only stood up to the Superbowl defending Saints but the Browns won that game. It was totally due to the defensive plan and execution and although Colt didn't really do squat in that game to win it either, neither did he make the rookie mistakes that could have lost it. He did rather well for a rookie in his second game especially considering the competition.
Dang! Out of the ordinary for a Browns QB let alone a rookie. This kid is worth a watch.
After the bye week he faced up to the Pats. Again, due to a well-planned defensive game and superb execution of it the Browns win again. It may be a fluke to beat the Pats with this team but any time you beat the Pats it's big and our Browns beat them by 20 points. Holy Mackerel, is this the culmination of this kid's moxie and ability?!
Uh-Oh, the Jets are up next and the Browns were on the cusp of a victory for whatever reason and Colt showed he could orchestrate a last minute drive vs. a top defense even if it was a surprise to said defense. At that point on, it was no fault of his that the Browns lost. But son-of-a-gun this kid played tough and was impressive for a rookie. No doubt in the world Colt McCoy is the real deal.
Rookie mistakes and all, through the past 4 games vs. some of the best the NFL has to offer he did nothing but get better. The sky is apparently not even a limit. Look out now, the Browns have a quarterback to build with. Are we seeing the whole team rallying around this kid? It can only get better from here on out!
Then nothing.
With a combination of game planning down to the opponent's ability and Colt leveling out, the rest of the season reverted back to normal Browns football. Close losses to bad teams. And not even this young miracle QB could pull the team up out of it. It progressed to him being our third starter knocked out by injury and when he did come back we were handed a Hillis-less, embarrassing lost to the Steelers. Fitting since that is where all the hope started.
That 4 game mid-season stretch, the first 4 games of Colt's career is where all the Colt love is coming from. It's hard to forget that ass-kicking football we saw back then. It has to be a sign of things to come. It just has to be. It has to.
So the love continues though it been tempered somewhat by his starts since that miracle run. He showed promise again vs. Miami this year with a come from behind victory conjured up out on desire and guts alone and it's understandable to want to see more of the same. Proto-typical QB or not he certainly has some "tease factor" if nothing else.
But one thing's for sure, he's the best QB we're run out there since our return (Garcia excepted) and having hope for him is no mortal sin. The FO talking him up like he's a Franchise QB is no sin either. Encouragement is the best form of motivation. Besides, who else we gonna toss out there. Wallace?
I just hope one of two things happen: that Colt goes against all that makes football sense and becomes the next Joe Montana or, if he doesn't, that the FO will quickly recognize it and not be timid in their quest for a Franchise QB before all our young, up and coming players get old.
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I have no doubt that Holmgren would do that, these guys take time to develop into starters.
Right now we have colt, who's a work in progress, seneca...who is a vet that can fill in if colt gets injured, and a developmental guy as a third stringer.
If someone comes along when we are picking that can help the browns, and they are a bpa, and they happen to be a qb, then i'll bet we take them.
I don't see us taking one high, but who knows what the coaches think when the time comes. I'll bet we are drafting d-line, maybe a right tackle, db's, linebackers, and wr's before we worry about it.
Holmgren believes in picking a qb, and sticking with them until they prove they don't have it...there is no way you can say that about colt at this point.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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very good synopsis of Colt's Browns career so far and pretty accurate as far as to where the national love and local expectations come from.
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Pretty damned accurate, 'Dub.  Very damned, accurate, actually.
The tough part is always filtering out all the things which don't matter when evaluating McCoy........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I hesitated to mention the fact that since it was Holmgren, (the QB guru), who stuck his neck out for Colt on draft day that it carried a lot of weight in effecting fans opinions of how good Colt might be. It adds to the expectations and premature love.
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Yes, it did, and still does. I myself admitted that I was hesitant to label McCoy Frye 2.0 because of that very fact. My eyes told me one thing from watching Colt for all 4 years he played here in my town. Holmgren showing confidence made me say "Well, he see's something I don't, and unlike the rest of the dolts who have been the Big Cheeses in Cleveland, he knows what he's looking at when talking about QB's."
My confidence is eroding, however. It's very close to being completely gone.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i dont see how it could already.
Theres just too much evidence that points to the wait and see...
There are times when you just cut bait and say fail. Charlie Frye wasnt even one of those as he got 19 starts. Sage Rosenfels is one, Quinn is one (albeit it could have gone either way at certain points), jamarcus russell and so on and so forth
Time in a system, determines success, good qbs do well the 2nd year in a system...the ones that are worth their salt. not 2nd year in the league, 2nd year in a system.
Kurt Warner is a good example, after being awful forever, couple years in STL boom, couple years in NYG...decent, never got through year 2 cuz of eli, and 3rd year in AZ boom. QBs that are worth their salt excel in their 2nd year in the system...Bradford has taken a step back, orton thrived year 2 both in mcdaniels system, stafford boom, rodgers boom...all of em.
Its VERY rare to see a qb take on a new system and thrive year 1, no matter how much they have played in the nfl...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I guess I'm just thinking about how the Chargers gave up on Brees for Rivers. Not that Rivers is bad by any stretch but Brees has gone on to win the big one and I think a better overall qb.
I'm not saying I think McCoy is Brees just that some might be throwing in the towel a bit too soon on the kid.
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Quote:
I guess I'm just thinking about how the Chargers gave up on Brees for Rivers. Not that Rivers is bad by any stretch but Brees has gone on to win the big one and I think a better overall qb.
I'm not saying I think McCoy is Brees just that some might be throwing in the towel a bit too soon on the kid.
For me, Brees isn't really better than Rivers, brees just has better guys around him that fit the system they are playing in.
I don't know where Mccoy stacks up to those two guys.. time will tell that.
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“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Kurt Warner is a good example, after being awful forever, couple years in STL boom, couple years in NYG...decent, never got through year 2 cuz of eli, and 3rd year in AZ boom.
I'm not trying to dispute your argument...I just want to point out that...
1998, His first year in the NFL... Warner played in 1 game, had 11 pass attempts.
1999, He started the whole year, Won a Super Bowl...
2004, His only year in NY, he went 5-4, and they made the switch to Eli and finished 6-10...
Just saying.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
I guess I'm just thinking about how the Chargers gave up on Brees for Rivers. Not that Rivers is bad by any stretch but Brees has gone on to win the big one and I think a better overall qb.
I'm not saying I think McCoy is Brees just that some might be throwing in the towel a bit too soon on the kid.
For me, Brees isn't really better than Rivers, brees just has better guys around him that fit the system they are playing in.
I don't know where Mccoy stacks up to those two guys.. time will tell that.
Really?
San Diego had Tomlinson. The Saints haven't had a guy break 800 yards rushing in 5 or 6 years.
Vincent Jackson is more explosive than anyone the Saints have run at WR for years. Gates is a better TE than Shockey. Neither Breen nor Rivers have been sacked much. Defensively San Diego has been much better than New Orleans, with the exception of 2010.
Brees had had one of our castoffs become a very good WR for him. Colston was a 7th round pick. Joe Horn was originally a 5th round pick of the Chefs. Donte Stallworth was up and down as far as catching the ball.
I don;t see superior talent in New Orleans. I see a superior QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And comparing McCoy to either of them at this moment is redonkulous...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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actually...kinda strengthens it...year 2 in the system kurt took off...
and year 1 with the giants...eh, decent, no one knows what year 2 wouldve held...id imagine great things.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Well first off he wasn't "awful forever" He was named one of the AFLs top 20 players ever.
He tried to break in with the Packers when they had Favre, Brunell, and Detmer...
Obviously people get better as they get more familiar. I just disagreed with your example..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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i know...i just meant that he washed out in his first NFL go around...and would anyone say warner is worse than detmer or brunell now?
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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