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Without reading back through the intire thread V.....i agree with you on Thomas and he is the safest and the best pick for us....BUT...he is more than likely going to Detroit with the second pick. IF that indeed does happen....then WHo doe you feel is the pick?
Quinn?
Peterson?
I would have said peterson before the Lewis pickup but now i would have to think we really need to entertain the trade down and grab Okobe (sp) the DT or maybe take the Cb which his name has escaped me.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Don't spin the words, man. There's a difference in believing that your opinion is right and trying to tell everyone else they're a jackass because of their opinions.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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J/C from the very beginning of this thread If I could put an analogy to the Browns it would be this. The Browns are to failure as the Leaning Tower of Pisa is to falling. Both have foundation problems and both can be fixed if the foundation is addressed. To elaborate because I'm not good with analogies and I'm sure I got this one wrong. The Leaning Tower of Pisa had foundation problems in the early days of it's construction, hence it's lean. They had to go back and realize that it was falling to a side at a certain rate per year and the only way to fix it was to readdress the foundation. They have done that and while it's still a hazard to fall because it was so far gone, it's much more stable now. The Browns are in the same boat only since we're an NFL team we can never be too far gone. We have foundation problems and that is why we are "leaning" in a sense. We need to fix those issues in order to make the rest of our team successful. In other words, we fix the foundation and the building is servicable. lol, Just thought I'd go in a different direction with the thought process. 
HAVE FAITH IN YOUR TEAM! GO BROWNS!!
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Mature, man, real mature.
You're not even worth it.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Quote:
You act like nothing has been done for the line.
We just addressed 40% of the unit...the only real question is the other guard spot.
Yes, I know, you remember the first play of last season...LOL....GMAB.
The line was and will continue to be addressed, but there are other positions on the team.
If we don't get or take Thomas, it isn't the worst thing.
Peen...stop pretending we have overhauled the Oline already.
We have not!
The Browns let one OG pursue free agency and have signed one guard to fill that need.
Yes the Browns signed the center who played last year, but tell me, how is that an upgrade of our offensive line?
At best, Fraley was an average center and to be honest, he is probably toward the bottom when ranking the 32 best centers in the NFL.
If the Browns address one of the "fancy" positions (QB/RB) on the offense before addressing the LT needs, it will do little to improve this offense.
Any successful RB or QB will credit his offensive line for his own performance....but have you ever seen a offensive line credit a rb or qb for their good performances?
It just does not work that way in football.
The engine of the offense is the offensive line...the QB is just the gear shift.
We signed one OG who should be better than the one we let go so we have improved but one of the 5 OLine positions so far.
That's not enough, peen!
Last edited by mac; 03/08/07 08:06 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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mac no clue what u said .... u made no sense what so ever on the old board and i didnt read or respond to u there .. doubt that changed .. so i see no reason to start now .. *LOL* ..
Diam...I tried to make it simple as I could including stats to back up my position...if you don't understand the point, you really don't understand football at all.
You want to continue the old feuds, so be it, your choice.
I could be proven wrong but to pretend it's better to ignore me is show you can't debate at all and would rather not face the facts I present.
I will challenge anyone when I think they are wrong and in your case, I see a large degree of "homerism" for a doomer.
Would the Browns have been a better team if BQ were QB for the Browns last season?
I'm an Oline guy who can listen to reason but I fail to see how a BQuinn improves this offense without fixing the offensive line "first".
So far, the Browns have made one move, signing Steinie to take Colman's OG spot. Fraley is the same center we had last year so no improvement there.
We don't even know how good Frye and Anderson can be because we can't protect them long enough to allow them to drop back and pass.
You think Shaffer is the real deal at LT?
Unless Shaffer has another gear we have not seen yet, he's probably the poorest LT in the NFL.
Our QBs deserve better!
Passing on a franchise LT to draft the second best QB in the draft does not make much sense to me.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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well, alright,, if you insist Muffin,,it's ok 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Peen...stop pretending we have overhauled the Oline already.
I am not pretending.....we just addressed 40% of the unit.
Tucker seems a question. Shaffer isn;t going anywhere so we can forget that.
But I do agree, we don't need to stop. I wouldn't mind one more FA as a back-up option if the guy isn't a starter and at least 2 linemen drafted in this draft.....1 of them day one for sure...my guess is it will be in round 2.
The thing we have to remember is there is 9...maybe 10 spots on the O-line. I don't think you can stock too many rookies into that mix.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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well we are going to bring in 3 offensive linemen via the draft... SLEEPER picks in rounds 5-7.
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Fine.....I hope for at least 1 player who isn't a sleeper...I want one who can step in the first day of camp and push for a starting role...one of those round 2 guards would look real good if in fact we don't go Thomas.
A guy like Blaylock,Sears,Grubbs. One of them is going to be there and hope one of them is starting for us next year.
For example, say it is Blaylock..
Our line would look like this.
Shaffer LT
Steinback LG
Fraley C
Blaylock RG
Tucker RT
That isn't bad IMO..we have some flexibility in that unit if needed..
Key reserves...
Sowells
Andruzzi
Butler
Smith
I would like to upgrade that if we could. Sowells is a guy we have to hope is ready to make a leap. we will find out this year if Savage got that one right.
Smith did a good job at center, so he is a good back-up there and can flex to guard if needed, but he wasn't that good there.
Butler is a big kid but not as good as I would like...Someone for RT is a key need IMO.
Druzzi gives you the vet back-up who can still get it done in limited spurts.
I know I am missing some guys who might fit in...I just can't remember who they are at this point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Besides all this other nonsense since I left..we are not going to wait till round 5 to draft a linemen Turk..
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Besides all this other nonsense since I left..we are not going to wait till round 5 to draft a linemen Turk..
I sure hope not anyway.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We haven't put anyone at RG..I expect Opie to get someone(stopgap?) over there before the draft, then select a potiential starting RG from the draft..probably round two/three ..
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Maybe Matundo or whatever his name is..  I still think he sees Sowells as a fix....guess we will find out on him soon enough.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't think it'll be Cosey Coleman..if so they would have already resigned him..they have the cash..I feel they don't want him back..
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He's done.
We will find a rental of sorts as I explained earlier...here or another thread...and bring in a solid draft prospect.
I think we have some guys on the PS as well...The line isn't looking bad....Sowell is a key...Savage seems to have faith the guy is good...and he drafted some of these players we mentioned.
4th rounders can do well in the league....but they don't usually just step in and dominate...Sowells may indeed turn into a good solid NFL lineman......lets hope.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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My draft wish list is actually pretty simple,,, I want Thomas in the 1st.. then if that RB,,,lynch is there in the second (I think he might be), then I want him at that spot.
Then I want somemore Oline guys,,,hopefully someone that isn't a project that needs a ton of time to develop..
But hey, that's just my dream draft,,,
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'd put Fred Matua at Guard and just let him work his butt off... The guy is huge!! The guy has push!! IMO.. he's perfect for the job..
I think there are some positions in football where you either have it or you don't.. and it would be hard for you to grow and just work your way up the depth charts.. but offensive line isn't one of them to me.. you can move up.. most offensive linemen already have the strength and the build.. most just need to learn technique..
MATUA!! MATUA!! he has experience blocking for guys with Peterson's ability.. ie Bush.. Let him strut his stuff..
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Quote:
select a potiential starting RG from the draft..probably round two/three ..
don't forget that Savage is on record more than once saying that your 'guard-center-guard' can be gotten on day 2. Maybe he surprises us, but so far I have to think that unless he takes a tackle, we will not be seeing a first day OLine from him.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i'd be darn if the Packers let Lynch go pass them..
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My question would be this...
The Oline is still light years away from where we want it to be. Until that premier LT or even above average LT is secured our line will not be solid but....
the Dline is about to fill out their retirement papers and have their hips replaced...why not consider the 340 lbs. Branch from Michigan as our top pick? Tell me all you want about Frye having no time to pass but at least he could be on the firld more if a run stopper was secured high in the draft.
Is there an equal chance of getting a quality OT in the second round as there is a quality NT in the second??
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Just want to say something I see from our Oline FA pickups..in order to develop a line that can play together for 3 years or so, the players brought in can't be hitting the wall during that time.
Players at a young age also have development time that hasn't been paid by theBrowns.
They are letting other teams put in the time and money to get these players to playing status and then getting them..
Now I prefer us to get a sound player in the draft and the better ones are found early..
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Quote:
If the Browns address one of the "fancy" positions (QB/RB) on the offense before addressing the LT needs, it will do little to improve this offense.
MAC...That's your quote...
Not at all close to being FACT...
Look...Thomas is a stud in the making no doubt...If we took Quinn or even Peterson...The object then is to protect either with a bonafide TOP TALENT at RG...We already have one at LG in Steinbach...
And let me tell ya' sumptin...Shaffer is AVG on the Island on his BEST DAY...Steinbach being next to him is gonna make his job a bit easier...He can concentrate on the OUTSIDE and not have to worry about Steinbach like he did Andruzzi ALL YEAR LONG...
How much difference that makes is up for debate...BUT IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE...
It will not be devastating if we don't take Thomas...
Shaffer/Steinbach/Fraley and Bentley/Blalock/Tucker is a pretty solid interior...And the INTERIOR has been the biggest problem with this line FOR YEARS...So we don't have Ogden on the line...BFD...How far did Ogden take Baltimore last year...
A STUD LT IS NOT THE FIX ALL FOR THIS LINE...
Would love to have Thomas at LT and Shaffer at RT...Maybe even RG???...Who knows...Maybe Tuck goes inside to RG???...Point is it's NOT the only way to address this Offensive Line...TWO NEW QUALITY GUARDS is a GREAT START...
We won't be making a mistake if we go Quinn...Or Peterson for that matter...As long as we CONTINUE upgrading the line...But the LT is not the end all be all...
Go Browns!!!
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While I want Thomas if we don't get him the Browns are not doomed..they're doomed if they wait till round 5 like Turk SUGGESTED (WHAT KINDA plan is that???) to draft a linemen..
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Quote:
A STUD LT IS NOT THE FIX ALL FOR THIS LINE...
What one move will improve two positions on our offensive line?
Just one point to consider.
I stand by my contention that the Browns have a golden opportunity to address one of our weakest positions on the offensive line with two shots at a franchise LT in the top 10 draft picks...Joe Thomas and Levi Brown.
Either would step into the LT position from day one and then Shaffer would finally have to work for a position, battling with Tucker for the RT while backing up the LT spot.
It just seems to make so much sense to me, an Oline guy.
BTW, the signing of Lewis at RB means we do not have to take a chance on the often injured Peterson with our first round pick.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I dont see Levi Brown as a LT in this league. I think he is a Leonard Davis clone to be quiet honest. Now what the Browns should be doing is trying to work a trade to get Mad Max out of the Eagles locker and into the Browns. Send Reuben across the river. then we can draft a RT to work behind Tucker until he is ready to take over. Shaffer, Steinbach, Fraley, max jean Gilles, Tucker/rookie
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well, alright,, if you insist Muffin,,it's ok
Ha! I knew that list would come in handy.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Smith did a good job at center, so he is a good back-up there and can flex to guard if needed, but he wasn't that good there.
Don't believe everything your seeing eye dog tells you bro 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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That particular quote cracks me up nowadays.We have $100mil invested in a guard and a center,niether of witch were 2nd picks.It would appear our RG will be either a 4th rd.(Sowells) or a UDFA(Smith,Matua).
Honestly,that quote was taken out of context,or it was just an assine statement.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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It really did didn't it
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
i agree with you on Thomas and he is the safest and the best pick for us....BUT...he is more than likely going to Detroit with the second pick. IF that indeed does happen....then WHo doe you feel is the pick?
Quinn?
Peterson?
As I said in a reply to Diam, I would not draft Peterson, and that was before we signed Lewis. We are behind on the OL and we have to start playing catch-up this year.
I would prefer a trade down, but if Savage deems Quinn a franchise QB, then I would have no problem w/it. At least for the next couple of years.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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OK Sportsfans...
What if Thomas goes #2...And Savage DOES NOT deem Quinn a Franchise QB???
Do we take Peterson at 3 then???
I bet u say Johnson...[censored]...
U take the Franchise RB...
Go Browns!!!
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I really don't see Detroit taking him, but yeah, I'd take Peterson then.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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No... you try and get somebody to trade up to the #3 spot. If THAT doesn't materialize, THEN I think you go with Peterson. Personally, I think Quinn would be better for the Browns long-term, but, going with the picture you painted, Peterson would be the pick.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Check on the trade down. I forgot about that. Long day...
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I've already stated that I do NOT want Johnson.....under any circumstances.
I don't want Peterson either, but he wouldn't be as bad of a pick as CJ.
If both Joe and Quinn are gone, then I pray that we trade down. However, I think one of the two will be available when we pick. It's a great year to be at # 3.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
It's a great year to be at # 3.
True, but it's also extremely frustrating for us fans  !!
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Is there an equal chance of getting a quality OT in the second round as there is a quality NT in the second??
This is a great point Ralphie. I believe it is much easier to find offensive lineman later in the draft than it is to find defensive lineman later in the draft. We have improved our offensive line from last year if we don't draft or get anymore the rest of the year. On the other hand, what have we done to at least shore up one of the 3 d-line spots. This worries me and I think some people are getting a little to worried about trying to fix the O-line and not remembering how bad (and old) the D-line is. Branch definitely should be considered just as much as Thomas or Peterson and isnt by many from what I keep seeing on here. In my opinion you can turn things around alot quicker with a dominate defense compared to a dominate offense. just a thought
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With 32 teams and 17 positions, the odds of finding someone in the top five at their position is pretty good. Obviously some positions are at more of a premium than others, (QB vs LS, or OT vs DT for example, and depending on prevalent need in the league as there always seems to be,) but that still leaves pretty decent odds of finding someone good at any given position if you're drafting high in the second.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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