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I've watched all these games on NFL Sunday Ticket (and rewatched them). I don't remember an instance where McCoy has audibled. Not a single time. He might be out there telling teammates where they are supposed to be on the plays, but I don't think he's given an audible, not even once all season long!
i haven't seen it happen either.. but to compare apples to apples.. I'm not exactly sure how much I see other teams audible either though.. not a lot I'm sure.
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Those saying they don't see Colt audible is friggin killing me. How would you know if he did. Sometimes an audible can be ran out of the same set. Just a word in the cadence could change it. This board is getting hard to read anymore, so much crap gets spewed. The knee jerk reactions to anything is hilarious. I can see why many of the better posters are no longer here. 
#gmstrong
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Those saying they don't see Colt audible is friggin killing me. How would you know if he did. Sometimes an audible can be ran out of the same set. Just a word in the cadence could change it.
yeah, this one.
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I've watched all these games on NFL Sunday Ticket (and rewatched them). I don't remember an instance where McCoy has audibled. Not a single time. He might be out there telling teammates where they are supposed to be on the plays, but I don't think he's given an audible, not even once all season long!
i haven't seen it happen either.. but to compare apples to apples.. I'm not exactly sure how much I see other teams audible either though.. not a lot I'm sure.
With Peyton Manning, I think he called audibles almost 2 of 3 plays.
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Those saying they don't see Colt audible is friggin killing me. How would you know if he did. Sometimes an audible can be ran out of the same set. Just a word in the cadence could change it.
This board is getting hard to read anymore, so much crap gets spewed. The knee jerk reactions to anything is hilarious. I can see why many of the better posters are no longer here.
Okay, let's say you're right and that he's audbiling by using just a word in the cadence. Would you say that is the case in every use? Other audibles are openly apparent. How many are you saying are of the 'a word in the cadence' type of audible? Every one of them? Really?! Come on man! He's not calling audibles because he's told that he's not allowed to do so. He stated as much in that last post-game presser (I even pointed out where) and that you simply refuse to acknowledge it speaks more about you than about us.
He isn't allowed to call audibles and that's very apparent to anyone that watches the games.
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Okay, let's say you're right and that he's audbiling by using just a word in the cadence. Would you say that is the case in every use? Other audibles are openly apparent. How many are you saying are of the 'a word in the cadence' type of audible? Every one of them? Really?!
Instead of stuff like this, why don't you just prove him wrong? Oh wait,,, you can't....  yeah,, REALLY
#GMSTRONG
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How would you know if he did. Sometimes an audible can be ran out of the same set. Just a word in the cadence could change it.
I was about to make that point.. When most people think of "audibles" they think of somebody like Manning getting under center, then pulling back, shouting in both directions and 3 people shift... not all audibles are like that.
yebat' Putin
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Maybe the Coach just doesn't like the plays he audibles to?
You can make damn near anything into Colt's fault can't you? 
Answer this for me then:
Why would McCoy have the option to audible earlier in the year ..... but not now?
Like it or not, this is not what a WCO QB looks like. I see it, and I am sure that the front office sees it. No matter what other players on the field do, the QB still has to make the throws, accurately and on time. He has to have superior ball placement on his passes, or receivers are stopped dead in their tracks. This offense puts a lot on the QB, and he has to deliver ..... or the offense stops. McCoy is not delivering in vital areas. It's unfortunate, but true. I wish that he was ... and that I could blame this all on the rest of the team and not him .... but that's not what my eyes tell me. Passes in the WCO need to be delivered quicker. Decisions need to be faster. Throws need to be crisper. Timing needs to be better. Accuracy and ball placement are vital. A pass can be complete without necessarily being accurate. When a QB hits a receiver and the receiver makes a catch and is tackled immediately, the team gains X yards. When the QB delivers the ball accurately, the receiver is moving at full speed, doesn't have to slow down for the ball, and can run full speed for more yards. Unfortunately, this last part is missing. That's what I mean by accuracy. That is missing desperately from our offense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How would you know if he did. Sometimes an audible can be ran out of the same set. Just a word in the cadence could change it.
I was about to make that point.. When most people think of "audibles" they think of somebody like Manning getting under center, then pulling back, shouting in both directions and 3 people shift... not all audibles are like that.
It's pretty simple really. I was the backup qb in h.s. Starter at split end/tight end, okay?
But, it was pretty simple. Even in h.s. Call the play in the huddle. Every week, we had a "hot" color during the cadence, if needed. A regular cadence would be "Blue, 21, hit, hit" (some said "hut, hut" The color could change to anything - other than the hot color. The number called could be anything - it meant nothing. Sometimes the cadence would be "gold, 33, green, 12, hit"
Unless the qb said the hot color first. Say the hot color was "white". QB could change the call at the line by saying "White, 14, white, 14." When white was called (or whatever the color was that week) we all knew it was an audible. The number told us what the play was.
We never changed formations, but we could run a completely different play. Just that simple.
And that's high school.
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Okay, let's say you're right and that he's audbiling by using just a word in the cadence. Would you say that is the case in every use? Other audibles are openly apparent. How many are you saying are of the 'a word in the cadence' type of audible? Every one of them? Really?!
Instead of stuff like this, why don't you just prove him wrong? Oh wait,,, you can't.... yeah,, REALLY
I don't have to prove a negative. That's not easy to do except for watching the games and listening to what Colt McCoy said in the presser after the game.
So, yeah, I think I backed up what I said. I've got the games DVR'd and there is nothing to back up the claim that McCoy is audibling any plays whatsoever, but we do have his response to the question, "Do you have that (audibling) as an option?" McCoy's response was a clear, "No."
That tells me all that I need to know.
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j/c
Let me think about this...we have a totally new offensive scheme...and a young QB.
Our starting WRs include a rookie who did not play football last year and a ST deamon.
Our starting and backup RBs were not on this team a month ago.
We start a rookie at LG who probably was not expected to play this year...a virtual rookie at RG who - after a year being here - is just now getting used to not living in Hawaii...and a Pashos.
Yep...I see several reasons why a HC may not want his QB to audible.
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With Peyton Manning, I think he called audibles almost 2 of 3 plays.
like i said.. comparing apples to apples.. Manning is in a class of his own when it comes to play calling.
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Answer this for me then:
Why would McCoy have the option to audible earlier in the year ..... but not now?
I have no idea how much latitude McCoy had to audible earlier compared to now, if you do know, please share... if you are just speculating based on what you think you see or a couple lines in the media, feel free not to.
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I see it, and I am sure that the front office sees it.
If the front office decides to go in a different direction after this year and do what it takes to get Luck or Barkley, then God bless them, I hope it works out. I just want to win.
As for the rest of your post, McCoy needs to produce better, that's all I'm going to say. I have my own opinions, but how much of that lack of production is on him and how much is on other factors, I will leave that up to the guys with the film, the guys that watch every practice, the guys that know what each player was SUPPOSED to do, the guys that attend the meetings to determine.
yebat' Putin
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So now I can't speculate? Aren't we all speculating? It's gonna get really quiet around here if no one can speculate or offer an opinion. Heck, I thought that was the whole purpose of the message board. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This whole thread is much ado about nothing due to things taken out of context being used as absolutes.
Hmmm, there seems to be something familiar about that statement.
A re occurring theme if you will.
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So now I can't speculate?
Yes you can speculate but you didn't ask the question that way, you asked the following question as if it's a given that certain facts are true....
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Why would McCoy have the option to audible earlier in the year ..... but not now?
So if you know that to be true, please share with me how you know that... and then and only then can I begin to address WHY I think that might have happened.
Your question starts with the assumption that his ability to audible has changed and then asks me to answer the question, when in fact, I don't KNOW if his ability to audible has changed so I can't possibly answer the question.
It would be like me asking you.. Why don't you beat your dog as much as you used to? It is a question that is predicated on me knowing facts about how much you beat your dog and it is predicated on me knowing that it has changed, when in fact I don't know if/when/how much you beat your dog.. but you are a good guy so I'm sure you don't. 
yebat' Putin
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Earlier in the year, he did appear to audible. In his presser, he said that he did not have that option. Whether that is for a single play, game, or from now on is all speculation on everyone's part.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Fair enough, now I will answer the question.. sort of.
Colt is a smart guy but with so few games in the system, I'm sure he doesn't have free reign to audible like experienced QBs in experienced systems do.. but he should have at least some audible options.
If, and that's an IF, Shurmur didn't like what Colt was audibling to early in the season, then you coach him, you don't take it away. That's just stupid.
Shurmur is coming across as a control freak.. he wants to run the team, he wants to run the offense, he wants to call the plays, he won't let anybody call timeout even in the 2 minute drill, he won't open up a few audibles... maybe my read on him is totally wrong but he doesn't seem to want to let other professionals do their jobs...
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Conversely, the less freedom the players have to "freelance", the less they have to know at any given time and the more they simply have to sorry about only what it is they have to do ... and let's face it, that's been problematic enough for these guys.
I mean, it isn't just the QB that has to know the audibles.... WR's and RB's have to know them, too.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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With Peyton Manning, I think he called audibles almost 2 of 3 plays.
like i said.. comparing apples to apples.. Manning is in a class of his own when it comes to play calling.
I never said that he isn't. The Colts really don't even need an OC. They have one on the field.
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Ah, Ytown, I see you still have your head so far up Genies behind it's affecting your ability to post. Quote:
In his presser, he said that he did not have that option.
I think Colt was talking about that one play they were running & not about the whole game.
You know, you used to be a joy to read, now your so bitter about what happened that you can't wait to jump on H&H for everything that comes down the pike. We all knew things would get worse before they get better, I think H&H made mention of that even before the draft. They just started on the D, next year it will be a little more D and a little O. By then we might know who our QB is going to be. We should be up & running by yr. 3
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I would imagine this being a new system/short offseason that Shurmur would limit how and when McCoy could audible.
It only makes sense to me that you don't want the guy learning the ropes of your system to have free reign to audible. Dan Fouts said it didn't look like we had hot reads and he is probably right. Though even if we did I still don't think it would matter much.
Half the time these guys look like they run routes with horse blinders on.
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Is it also possible that the term "audible" was interpreted by Colt as a wholesale play change at the line of scrimmage (like he would have done last year) and "audible" to Shurmur was interpreted as a hot read or pre-defined check-off as a part of a package or game plan?
Maybe they were both right and just took the question in a different context?
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Look, the old guy is gone, and we now have new guys in place.
Frankly, I don't see much positive development out of any position on offense.
Do you?
Can you name one single player who is having a better year than he had last year? I can't except maybe Cribbs. He's getting more opportunities, largely due to injuries and such.
I want this team to improve. We were supposed to get better on offense, by virtue of a better system that fit the talent we had better than the old system did. So far that hasn't been the case. (with anyone on offense)
Now I do like what the defense has done so far, and while it is still a work in progress, we can see some progress. There is a lot of young talent, and they are starting to develop. There are still holes, but the defense is far, far, far ahead of the offense at this point. Coming into this season, it was supposed to be the other way around.
Discipline has gone to hell this year. Special teams have been atrocious. These are things that coaching directly impacts.
Look, I am sick and tired of the constant coaching roller coaster. I have said flat out that I want this current group to get at least 3-4 years to show improvement. That doesn't mean that I am happy with how things have gone so far. Shurmur runs his system no matter what the players can do. This last game was the first game where he tailored a gameplan at all to the strengths of his players at key positions. I have said from the start that I am worried about him trying to be the head coach, offensive coordinator, and also the play caller, and I saw problems with a split focus like that. I think that we have seen the results. There have been several instances where a head coach paying attention could have called a time out ..... or seen what was happening with personnel ..... instead of trying to figure our his next play. I don't like that setup, and absolutely not with a new head coach who only has 2 years experience as a coordinator.
I don't care about Mangini. He's gone, and he is not coming back. I have even backed off somewhat on his (and my) favored philosophy of a power running game with a strong defense. You do need a strong scoring defense to go anywhere in the playoffs. (in almost every case in the past 6 or 7 years) However, today you need that exceptional QB if you want to win a championship. I don't think that Mangini would have put that much trust in a QB.
I want a winner ...... and while I don't want to see changes every other year, I do expect to see positive changes and progress. I expect things to get better. Thus far ..... more things have gotten worse, with many of the same players in place ... than have gotten better. That's troubling. Sorry if that makes me a ... whatever.
We lost players galore to injury last year. We have lost players to injury this year. T he coaches have to figure out a way to play to the strengths of the players they have, instead of worrying about the players they don't. Our whole right side of the OL was a revolving door last year. We had Hillis and no one else at RB. We had basically the same receiving crew as this year, except that we added Little and dropped Stuckey. (and now Robiske) We had major injuries on defense. We played a much harder schedule. I don't like seeing us squander an easy schedule this year. We probably will not see a schedule with this many really bad teams on it for years to come. We missed an opportunity. That upsets me.
If that makes me an apologist for the last regime, so be it. I don't think it does, but maybe you see things differently.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Can't really argue with your reasons, YTown.
I may not agree with the reasons, but I understand where you're coming from on most every one of them.
As for a player that's doing better than last year, I can think of one. Robiskie. He's off the Browns and on the team that the Browns face this weekend. I'm sure he's getting some media time - which he certainly wouldn't have gotten here.
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Little is having a better season.
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Can you name one single player who is having a better year than he had last year?
Colt McCoy
2010
60.8% 6TDs 9Ints 7.1YPA 74.5QBrating 23sacks (w/ 222 attempts)
58.8% 10TDs 6Ints 5.9YPA 78.2QBrating 22sacks (w/ 335 attempts)
He's throwing TDs more regularly, INTs far less regularly, taking many less sacks (despite the pressure), and he's moving the ball (just not in the red zone but he wasn't last year either).
I want to see him against Baltimore and Pitt, but he has been better this year.
#gmstrong
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and last year he had a much better running game to work with.
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Maybe the Coach just doesn't like the plays he audibles to?
You can make damn near anything into Colt's fault can't you?
Answer this for me then:
Why would McCoy have the option to audible earlier in the year ..... but not now?
Like it or not, this is not what a WCO QB looks like. I see it, and I am sure that the front office sees it. No matter what other players on the field do, the QB still has to make the throws, accurately and on time. He has to have superior ball placement on his passes, or receivers are stopped dead in their tracks. This offense puts a lot on the QB, and he has to deliver ..... or the offense stops. McCoy is not delivering in vital areas. It's unfortunate, but true. I wish that he was ... and that I could blame this all on the rest of the team and not him .... but that's not what my eyes tell me. Passes in the WCO need to be delivered quicker. Decisions need to be faster. Throws need to be crisper. Timing needs to be better. Accuracy and ball placement are vital. A pass can be complete without necessarily being accurate. When a QB hits a receiver and the receiver makes a catch and is tackled immediately, the team gains X yards. When the QB delivers the ball accurately, the receiver is moving at full speed, doesn't have to slow down for the ball, and can run full speed for more yards. Unfortunately, this last part is missing. That's what I mean by accuracy. That is missing desperately from our offense.
Like it or not what a west coast QB or any QB looks like depends on his blocking, his receivers and the play calling. all those aspects STINK. matador blocking, Mcoy and the browns are #4 in the amount of hits the QB has taken and #1 in passes dropped. Like it or not a QB needs help. yet we leave in no extra blocking on pass plays yet with mericic in to block...how is that Vickers deal working?
passes need to be delivered quicker, what to covered receivers who lack the ability to separate from defenders?
No running game means it is easier for dline o pin their ears back and pass rush which our blocking challenged oline has trouble with. Add crappy play calling where we plunge up the middle for 1 yrd gains each first down and you have a lot of second and long situations. McCoy will be scapegoated when we have made yet another rash hire for HC and the front office decided to stand pat in free agency.
reality says we are as bad as the collective decisions made to date, we are at the bottom of the NFL AGAIN. and yes it MUST be all McCoys' fault.
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Couple of questions for ya, Joe, if you don't mind.....
First....Do you feel that McCoy shoulders any of the blame?
Second....What do you think about Mark Sanchez?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Aww..Colt Mccoy...wasn't he supposed to be the Browns savior? No way Shurmur trusts him to make audibles and calls at the line. This uncertainty is saying something.
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I seem to remember another Browns QB that was told by his coach not to audible. Bernie didn't listen, scored a TD and still got cut. And Bernie was probably the most defense savvy QB that has played the game.
You're surprised that Colt is told not to?
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Welcome to the board, DA. I know nothing is funny to you, but a lot of posts on here are full of sarcasm... so keep an eye open for that.
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J/C
I think folks are making too much out of this.
I am no Shurmur fan by any means, but im not going to use this as an angle to bash the guy....or our QB
If we audible or not really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things right now.....The fact is our guys are not doing their jobs.
I don't care what play you audible into, if your OL is getting their rear-ends handed to them(which ours have much of the year) a stinking audible is not going to matter.
If a play works its a good play, if it doens't its a bad play...if the play works or not relies heavily on an OL that can actually block, and a RB that can find a hole and actually get a decent gain per carry.
If we had last years running game, Colt McCoy would look much better then he does now...the fact we can't run the ball is the source of a lot of our woes....the fact our OL blows chunks this year is a big reason we can't run the ball or protect our QB
An audible is not going to change that...until they guys can actually run a play without getting owned, theres no sense in even bothering with an audible.
Then again, our coaching has been terrible and most of this football team does not tackle properly....they have terrible form in their tackling...so much so that if i was coach i would force these guys to either tackle properly or hit the stinking bench....Dqwell Jackson and Rubin are the only two guys on this team that tackle properly....thats it...Haden is getting better, but he still trys to arm tackle too much....arm tackling is unacceptable....I want solid wrap up tackling...not going for big hits...Look at the Steelers...thats an EXCELLENT tackling team...they have great form, they tackle properly...we would really help ourselves if our guys actually knew how to tackle...that falls right in poor coaching...
also only Watson and Moore catch the ball correctly...they are the only two guys on this team that extend their hands away from their body and reach out and catch the ball with their hands and pull it it...everyone else trys to use their chest/stomach to catch the ball...its poor form...terrible...its not the way you catch a football....
Until this team can:
1. block someone.
2. tackle properly.
3. catch a football
i really don't think an audible makes much of a difference....doing just those 3 things right is another 3-4 wins in the NFL on its own....but we haven't done it right in forever...its not the players...talent only goes so far...your talent has to catch and tackle in proper form, and your guys gotta block someone...until that happens...we can just forget about it.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,865
Legend
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Legend
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Aww..Colt Mccoy...wasn't he supposed to be the Browns savior? No way Shurmur trusts him to make audibles and calls at the line. This uncertainty is saying something.
I don't believe that to be the case. I think you, like so many others on here do not take into consideration that he's basically a rookie and just learning this system. that coupled with an Oline that is less effective than it NEEDS to be are problems for this entire team
Everyone also forgets that Shurmur is a ROOKIE head coach.
But no, none of that matters to many on here.... it's fire Holmgren, fire Shurmer, Cut Colt McCoy, blah blah blah..
All signs of impatient fans.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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People need to stop with the 'basically a rookie' stuff.
He's played over a full NFL season.
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Posts: 7,278
Hall of Famer
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People need to stop with the 'basically a rookie' stuff.
He's played over a full NFL season.
He was drafted as a guy who was absolutely going to sit for - at least - his first year. The original expectations of him - based on our FO's review of him - was that he would need a year to watch and learn. That did not even come close to playing out that way.
He was treated like a leper in his first TC and didn't have a second round of OTAs.
He has a new system a new coach and pretty-much no one on offense who has played in the new scheme.
I know everything is the "same" to you, but it is CLEARLY reasonable to imply that Colt is "basically a rookie".
That doesn't excuse the mistakes he DOES make...but it makes for a reasonable explanation.
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I'm going to take two direct quotes from this week.
The first is from Shurmur during his weekly press conference before the St Louis game
Quote:
(On where this teams falls on a scale of how much they audible compared to other teams)- “It’s hard to say. I know there are some systems where you call the play and run it, there are other systems where the quarterback is at the line of scrimmage with maybe three or four options on a play. That being the case, I would imagine we’re somewhere in between.”
(On if McCoy has audibled at different times throughout the year)- “That’s part of what we do, depending on what play is called and then everybody has situations where you call a play and run it. Then there’s other ones where the play is being run into a look that’s unacceptable and you make a change.”
The second is from Colt McCoy following the game today.
Quote:
Colt just said in his presser that he does not have the option to audible.
Worth revisiting.....
I don't know if they were audibles today, but he sure had the ability to run some check-with-me plays. If the coach wanted total and absolute control, McCoy wouldn't even be allowed to do that, so the answer is that McCoy has the freedom to change things.
Case closed.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm going to take two direct quotes from this week.
The first is from Shurmur during his weekly press conference before the St Louis game
Quote:
(On where this teams falls on a scale of how much they audible compared to other teams)- “It’s hard to say. I know there are some systems where you call the play and run it, there are other systems where the quarterback is at the line of scrimmage with maybe three or four options on a play. That being the case, I would imagine we’re somewhere in between.”
(On if McCoy has audibled at different times throughout the year)- “That’s part of what we do, depending on what play is called and then everybody has situations where you call a play and run it. Then there’s other ones where the play is being run into a look that’s unacceptable and you make a change.”
The second is from Colt McCoy following the game today.
Quote:
Colt just said in his presser that he does not have the option to audible.
Worth revisiting.....
I don't know if they were audibles today, but he sure had the ability to run some check-with-me plays. If the coach wanted total and absolute control, McCoy wouldn't even be allowed to do that, so the answer is that McCoy has the freedom to change things.
Case closed.
How much criticism has Shurmur taken for having too much control?
Now, on another point, when the Browns take Shurmur's OC duties away, will the team offense improve? If they don't, will it be chalked up to being because of a new OC doing the play calling and will there be questions as to why Shurmur was allowed to make those decisions this year (and setting the team back another year in the process)?
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Legend
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Legend
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I'm pretty sure Shurmur will still be CALLING the plays, he'll just have someone helping with the Offense...
Which means, don't expect any good OCs to come here, and not get any credit for their work...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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