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And as much as Django would like everyone to belive, we didn't KNOW it wouldn't work...
With all due respect, but that's a stupid argument....hey, we don't know if I could be a great QB in the NFL, odds are stacked against me but hey, "we didn't KNOW", right? Why do we always have to find out the hard way?
I called Mangini's failure before his 1st move in Cleveland...and you COULD know if you'd have followed Mangini for 3 years in NY....he wasn't some CFB HC or something...he was in the league for YEARS as DC and HC and he was well known for his antics and outsmarting ways....it wasn't news not only for me but for many who follow the league closely...I'm all for gicing guys like Shurmur a shot but Mangini wasn't an unknown quantity....he wasn't well respected around the league for a reason....and it was not because he was smarter than others
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I would love to have Mike Sherman join the Browns. One of my favorite coaches. I would say this one is very plausible and besides, Shurmur and Sherman run the same offense.
If we sign Sherman for OC, we already know which QB we will draft come April....
but don't see it since Sherman won't be with a HC calling plays and I'm not sure Shurmur wants to lose the play calling duties....of course he could be "forced" to give it up (threatening with a Reid hire) but even if he'd agree it would be the start of the end....I'd feel bad for Shurmur but HC Reid, OC Sherman and DC Jauron looks pretty professional
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A guy like Sherman could be the "excuse" necessary for Shurmur to give up play calling duties.
"We didn't know that we would be able to hire a coach with so much experience in the offense, and who has been so successful ... blah blah blah blah blah .......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He has a point alright. Anyone who thinks we have a top-notch NFL defense this year is dreaming.
We have some of the pieces in place but we're a long way from being intimidating.
Well Wait a moment here.. the stats say we are what we are right?
It's not like QB stats. when a QB has only 100 yards passing in a game,, you can look at several things like, how many passes were dropped, how many sacks did he take, how many hurries.. these are things that would cause you to think twice about stats.
But this is a bit different. We allowed x number of yards per game..
I suggest that's going to change in the next 6 weeks because we have Pitt and Balt twice each.. so that number is, I'm sure, going to changs a bunch.
But today, it is what it is..
What has eyes but cannot see?
It not just a potato. 
The Correct answer is AkronJoe 
#GMSTRONG
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I don't see us moving Shurmur because I think it reflects poorly on the guys (H&H) above him. You could spin it as sending the message of "were going to bring in the best guys to coach/play/whatever" but then uh, why did we bring in Shurmur in the first place? Its similar to folks ready to move on our young Guards.... we've hitched our wagon to em and with holes elsewhere on this team why not give em time to gel on the front 5. Especially because I hope we have a strong rookie on the right tackle next year... limiting shuffles on the OLine is good. I'm not saying Shawn and Pinkie are here long term but I dont consider them an "immediate upgrade" compared to several other spots.
I liked Andy Reid for years but I worry he's got some bigger issues going on. That much talent and Phillys has what as many wins as WE do???? jeeeeez. If we had Phillys talent we'd be calling for everyone to be kicked out of town come January too. Maybe he's ready to move on... whether that's another football team or something other than football. I just worry people look too far back when determining talent.... You can't discount what Reid has done with the team they have assembled. Very underwhelming.
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I don't think that anyone can argue that he was a good hire given that he had his knees cut out from under him less than a year into his 1st year
Mangini cut his own knees out from under him.
He's the one who suggested Kokinis for a GM job, a guy that lasted eight games before being escorted out of the building by security. If the owner has to question what your hand-picked GM even does, that's probably not good.
He's the one that presided over one of the worst GM stints in NFL history. He's the one who turned the #5 pick into Alex Mack and a bunch of scrubs.
He's the one that hired an unproven, uncreative OC whose offense finished dead last in almost every statistical category.
He's the one that presided over some of the most uncompetitive football I've ever seen in my life, starting the season 1-11.
It was a complete unmitigated disaster. If anything, he's lucky he got a second year.
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He's not the only person in our tortured decade plus of expansion hell to make a mistake in hiring/suggesting a general manager.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And that's supposed to excuse Kokinis? Not for me. Our troubles finding talent in the draft is one of the biggest reasons we've done nothing but flub it up for over 10 years...
#gmstrong
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It's not to excuse anything. It is the main reason we have struggled for the past decade.
My point was that Mangini's hire of Kokinis was in no way some outlier. It was the norm, in a long line of failed GMs.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 12/02/11 04:44 PM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He's not the only person in our tortured decade plus of expansion hell to make a mistake in hiring/suggesting a general manager.
He's the only one I can think of that brought on a GM to essentially be ... his buddy?
I'm just not a fan of the idea that Mangini didn't get a fair shake. I think he got more than a fair shake.
He was lucky to be given the power he was here. He was a complete disaster from the get-go, to the point where Lerner was forced to bring in a competent front office, one that still gave him another year as HC.
And what did Mangini do with his second chance? Retained his obviously inept OC (who berated the QB his boss handpicked *and* managed to produce another bottom 3 offense), refused to play guys his GM traded for despite signing off on the move, and lost 11 games.
I think Holmgren was more than fair with Mangini. Most others would've canned him the second the 2009 season ended.
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Mangini hired Daboll as a OC..thats enough there to warrant a ticket out of town.
Mangini couldn't draft either.Set the Browns back a couple years
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Mike Sherman on his firing from Texas A&M and today's culture... Quote:
“Do I feel I deserve to be terminated? No, I don’t,” he said. “I think this program is headed in the right direction. But I understand we live in a society where it’s easier to change than to fix. … We live in a society today that is motivated by anonymous people that write baseless texts and twitters and it gets things stirred up. There’s no accountability to that type of society, and the immediacy they request.
“I think it’s important that people make decisions based on facts, and what’s real. I think sometimes that gets skewed a bit. But I feel like the program is definitely headed in the right direction and I hope the next coach appreciates the opportunity he’s going to get to work with these players and I’ll support him however I can. Because I want to see A&M be successful.”
PFT
I like this guy even more...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I always liked Mike Sherman... whether or not he'd wanna come here I have no idea but I'd be up for it
#gmstrong
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Here's another factor in what Sherman might do, and I have no idea how his contract might read....
In the NFL, head coaches who are fired get their salary IF they don't take another similar job. It's more complicated than that, but that's a dumbed-down version. What I don't know is if Sherman has that kind of clause in his contract. If he does, it'd be hard to imagine him taking another coaching gig immediately. However, becoming a "consultant" for the Browns would most likely NOT be subject to any clause precluding him from taking a coaching gig.
There are just too many things that potentially tie him to a possible gig for the Browns. Even so, it's a long-shot, but it's plausible...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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However, becoming a "consultant" for the Browns would most likely NOT be subject to any clause precluding him from taking a coaching gig.
Could he consult on the sidelines during games and point at the playchart Shurmur's holding?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I'm hearing here in Texas that Tressell has already spoken to A&M. That would be very interesting. I believe he'd thrive here.
I'd welcome Sherman on our staff but not as our head coach.
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Here's another factor in what Sherman might do, and I have no idea how his contract might read....
In the NFL, head coaches who are fired get their salary IF they don't take another similar job. It's more complicated than that, but that's a dumbed-down version. What I don't know is if Sherman has that kind of clause in his contract. If he does, it'd be hard to imagine him taking another coaching gig immediately. However, becoming a "consultant" for the Browns would most likely NOT be subject to any clause precluding him from taking a coaching gig.
There are just too many things that potentially tie him to a possible gig for the Browns. Even so, it's a long-shot, but it's plausible...
Special teams coordinator? Just saying.
Offensive line coach? Maybe they could consult the offense while holding the other job title.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Mike Sherman on his firing from Texas A&M and today's culture...
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“Do I feel I deserve to be terminated? No, I don’t,” he said. “I think this program is headed in the right direction. But I understand we live in a society where it’s easier to change than to fix. … We live in a society today that is motivated by anonymous people that write baseless texts and twitters and it gets things stirred up. There’s no accountability to that type of society, and the immediacy they request.
“I think it’s important that people make decisions based on facts, and what’s real. I think sometimes that gets skewed a bit. But I feel like the program is definitely headed in the right direction and I hope the next coach appreciates the opportunity he’s going to get to work with these players and I’ll support him however I can. Because I want to see A&M be successful.”
PFT
I like this guy even more...
He's absolutly right. It happans on here all the time.. The official Fire Shurmur thread or the official Fire Holmgren thread.. and on and on and on.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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internet + media = sports disaster
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internet + media = sports disaster
People will be people, but prior to the internet and twitter etc etc.. do any of you remember people talking like they do today., I mean acting as if they know so damn much, using nutty stats to prove a point that, really doesn't need proven?
I'm old enough to have been around prior to the internet.. And I don't remember it ever being like this. So damn critical and quite a bit of it without any balance..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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With our luck as Browns fans, they'll promote Crennell and he'll lead them to the Super Bowl in 2 or 3 years.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Mike Sherman on his firing from Texas A&M and today's culture...
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“Do I feel I deserve to be terminated? No, I don’t,” he said. “I think this program is headed in the right direction. But I understand we live in a society where it’s easier to change than to fix. … We live in a society today that is motivated by anonymous people that write baseless texts and twitters and it gets things stirred up. There’s no accountability to that type of society, and the immediacy they request.
“I think it’s important that people make decisions based on facts, and what’s real. I think sometimes that gets skewed a bit. But I feel like the program is definitely headed in the right direction and I hope the next coach appreciates the opportunity he’s going to get to work with these players and I’ll support him however I can. Because I want to see A&M be successful.”
PFT
I like this guy even more...
He's absolutly right. It happans on here all the time.. The official Fire Shurmur thread or the official Fire Holmgren thread.. and on and on and on.
Just like a young QB, I'm hoping we build the support around Shurmer that helps him to get good at his position and realize success!
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j/c
Chiefs can Haley . . .
Another guy who would make a great offensive coordinator.
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With our luck as Browns fans, they'll promote Crennell and he'll lead them to the Super Bowl in 2 or 3 years.
The only way Romeo can ever lead a team to the superbowl is if he was hired as the teams bus driver during super bowl week.
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Another guy who would make a great offensive coordinator
My exact thought, did great with the Cardniels,
It's been said that Shurmer will hire a Cordinator next year.
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Yeah .... the internet is so horrible. I mean, back in the day, no fans ever took signs to games ...... or had signs of protest flying outside of games at tailgates ..... or wore bags over their heads ...... or so on. None of that happened, because fans were so much more easy going back then.  I remember Paul McDonald being savaged on the radio all those years back. I remember Rutigliano going from savior to being run out of town in a couple of years time. That kind of stuff happened when we got a quality QB in Bernie. Then it started again when he started to decline, and was kicked out of town. Must have been the internet back then too ........ 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It happened back then, it happens today, the biggest constant is that fan griping and complaining and demanding constant change has never once made a team better. In fact quite the opposite could probably be proven.
yebat' Putin
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It happened back then, it happens today, the biggest constant is that fan griping and complaining and demanding constant change has never once made a team better. In fact quite the opposite could probably be proven.
not once? Tim Tebow once again proves you wrong 
it was fan griping, complaining, demanding change from Orton (and buying billboards) that got the 3rd string QB his shot (and Orton losing of course)
#gmstrong
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i like the panic fire there.
Dolphins look good in winning 4/5 games after an 0-7 start, so the owner gets a little fidgety and fires the HC after the next bad loss.
(I personally hate firing a HC in-season unless he and/or the team has quit. the Dolphins have not yet. just have the gumption to fire him after the season if that is what you want to do)
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They didn't want Kansas City or Jax to get a head start on them in the search for a new HC.
#GMSTRONG
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With our luck as Browns fans, they'll promote Crennell and he'll lead them to the Super Bowl in 2 or 3 years.
The only way Romeo can ever lead a team to the superbowl is if he was hired as the teams bus driver during super bowl week.
your incredible lol hahahahahahaha
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I'm certainly impressed with how Browns fans stick to their principles..(or not)...how many of you complaining about Shurmur are among the same Browns fans who complain about the constant state of "change" in head coaches here and how we must stick to a plan and see it through?
Much of what is going on in this thread is simply fan frustration that the Browns did not make the playoffs. Those of you who predicted a rosier outcome to the 2011 season are looking for someone to blame...and many are targeting Shurmur because he let McCoy go back in the game.
Shurmur's job is to coach...it the medical staffs job to tend to injured players and clear them to play/or not. McCoy said he was ready to go and Shurmur let him go back in, after the Browns medical staff looked at him. The situation is under investigation so why not wait to see if Shurmur is at blame?
I do not know what the future holds for the Browns in the offseason, but it is amusing to watch the same people who have stated that the Browns will not be successful if they are in a state of constant change...some of those same people are now calling for "more changes" next season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Excellent point Mac, although I'm sure many of those your talking about will use the....well if he is consistently bad.......excuse, knowing full well the man had no offseason to install a system, and a team full of youth. Not to mention injuries and retirement (Yates) of key players.
I'm not sold on Shurmur, but I'm not down on him either. You have to weigh all the variables to the situation.
Also, I'm glad you point out that it is the mediccal staff that cleared Colt, not Shurmur. I find it amusing that the fire Shurmur crowd is now using that as a weapon.
Most of us knew what this season would be like. Many fell into the trap of the idiotic strength of schedule nonsense. Many of the so called sure wins for the Browns turned out to be pretty good teams, 49ers for example.
We just took one of the leagues best to the wire, with key injuries and a unarguable mismatch in talent. Yet, it is being overlooked because the whiners have Colt going back in the game as an excuse to bash the HC. The team was prepared and played with fire, I think coaching has a little to do with that. This team plays just as hard for Shurmur as it did for Mangini, to say otherwise is bull. The bashers love to point out what they think are mistakes in their eyes. Sometimes calling it incompitence. But when the team plays like they did Thursday, no credit is given where it is due. The staff DID put the team into position to win, the team didn't execute well enough to succeed, period.
Firing this HC right now would be the most idiotic thing the FO could do. Holmgren already stated an OC will be brought in next year. IMO, the lockout forced their hand, and they decided to go into the season as an evaluation period. People don't like that, but that IMO was the right thing to do. I personally think that with a proper offseason, and the evaluation of this season, will steer the FO in the proper direction as far as FA and the draft is concerned. Those implying that Holmgren doesn't really care are idiots. The man has a proud legacy, I can't believe he would not care, his name is on the product.
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Seeing Mel Tucker who was a fantastic DB coach here at jacksonville makes me ill.
That is a real coach and the Players know he knows what he is doing and they have the confidence of each other.
Seeing how well the defense played under Rob ryan he will make an excellent Coach and what do we have?
A turd who will run Hillis, Cribbs and McCoy out of town. year 2 of Holmgren is a LOT WORSE than year one.
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Seeing how well the defense played under Rob ryan
Yeah, now Ryan's defense is setting records in Dallas! (Not that they're positive.)
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Let me be just one of those wishy washy fan griping complaining wants things to never change but then demands change opinion over reactionary posters for one post.
This is what I advocate today.
Holmgren I don't know about, Heckert is doing a good job of finding tough players, somewhat.
Schurmur needs to be given more time.
Colt McCoy needs to be replaced, but not immediatly, But what they DO need to do is get a Quarterback with the 1st pick they use in the April Draft.
Even if they draft a 1st round QB, anyone of the top 5 Qbs in this draft, and he doesn't do enough to take the job from McCoy, then they have thier own Kevin Kolb Philadelphia situation in the future and someone they can trade away.
The Continuity I hope to see. I want to see Hillis, Hardesty, and Ogbonnaya back, because they all 3 played vs Pittsburgh and well.
I hope they sitck it out with, Cribbs, Massaquoi, and Watson, ... and Little too.
When was the last time a Browns QB won a competition with the previous Browns QB to take the Job?
They signed Jake Delhomme, who actually played a playoff game at QB sometime in the past. Then they Cut Jake Delhomme.
Ya so it seems like, ( blow it up and start over again) because the Head Coach is struggling, but I don't want to see the HC change, they need to give him more time. The Quarterback is struggling, but he shouldn't be waived, they just should get someone who can challenge him, and happens to possess an ability to make all the NFL throws and have some arm strength and size. A hypothetical draft pick.
And they should bring in an Offensive Coordinator. well Yeah!
It is not as much dis- continuity as it sounds.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
With our luck as Browns fans, they'll promote Crennell and he'll lead them to the Super Bowl in 2 or 3 years.
The only way Romeo can ever lead a team to the superbowl is if he was hired as the teams bus driver during super bowl week.
I bet if you told him there was a buffet at the super bowl, he'd get them there.
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Good Post
I think the whole QB controversy thing that has been going on in Cleveland since the beginning of time (well it seems that long), is why the Browns have stuck with Colt and why they pulled Wallace back out so quickly.
The last thing they need is players answering questions about which QB they prefer and who is the QB of the future and blah blah blah. This is a young team and the Browns are trying to build a team that fights for one another and not one that pulls itself apart. It is really hard to do when the QB is constantly injured, Jake Delhomme last year or constantly sucking, DA and Quinn.
Now we go out and get our franchise QB.
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