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I'm watching the McCoy post game, and he really doesn't look concussed. He is answering complex questions about routes and what he was trying to do on certain plays. He does go to his eyes like he has a headache last in his presser, but a headache is not necessarily a concussion. They asked him if there was any wooziness, and he said , immediately, "I think I was good enough to go back in and play". http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...f5-006c89156892
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The ball absolutely broke the plane...the question is when...McCoy's knee hit the ground at a point just before the ball broke the plane...but he dove - not slid - and fell over his own player.
He was not "downed" by a Steeler player until after the ball and his arm hit the ground with the ball over the plane of the goalline.
The evidence was NOT irrefutable...but was overturned anyway.
the evidence was pretty irrefutable. but, it wasn't his knee that hit first. his elbow hit with the ball tucked in it. NFLN showed an angle from the back of the endzone that clearly showed green between his arm and the goalline.
when McCoy runs, he keeps the ball between his hand and elbow. that's great for ball protection, but at the goalline, he's got to be able to extend it (if he did, it would have been a TD).
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Quote:
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The ball absolutely broke the plane...the question is when...McCoy's knee hit the ground at a point just before the ball broke the plane...but he dove - not slid - and fell over his own player.
He was not "downed" by a Steeler player until after the ball and his arm hit the ground with the ball over the plane of the goalline.
The evidence was NOT irrefutable...but was overturned anyway.
the evidence was pretty irrefutable. but, it wasn't his knee that hit first. his elbow hit with the ball tucked in it. NFLN showed an angle from the back of the endzone that clearly showed green between his arm and the goalline.
when McCoy runs, he keeps the ball between his hand and elbow. that's great for ball protection, but at the goalline, he's got to be able to extend it (if he did, it would have been a TD).
I asked this question last night, while his elbow was down with the ball before the goal line, that much is certain, was he touched by a steeler? He dove, if he goes down on his own he can still advance the ball and he only had to advance it 2 inches.
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What are your thoughts on Kurt Warner's statement?
considering he never ran the WCO at any level and he was never able to run the Giants offense as well, it makes perfect sense.
It is just like Deon trying to explain how Harrison's hit was perfectly fine makes sense because Deon never hit anyone nor made a tackle above the ankles.
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good question. and he dove forward (if he slid, then he would be down via contact regardless of contact - NFL QB protection rules).
i thought he was tripped up and that's what caused him to dive (not that he dove on his own). have to see a replay to be sure though.
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IIRC, a knee or elbow are considered "down" if the player is contacted by, or is caused to go to the ground by a defensive player.
In other words, if I tackle you, and you go to the ground, hitting a knee or elbow to the ground, you are down. In that situation, I do not believe that I have to touch you while you are on the ground, as the action of the tackle forced you to the ground.
This seems to come into play more with regards to fumbles ..... where a guy is down because his elbow hit, then the ball pops out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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when McCoy runs, he keeps the ball between his hand and elbow. that's great for ball protection, but at the goalline, he's got to be able to extend it (if he did, it would have been a TD).
Fair enough, but if he does extend it in traffic and has it knocked away, people would be complaining that it was only second down and there was no need to reach and he should have been happy with 3rd and goal from a few inches because then we would score any way....
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Quote:
IIRC, a knee or elbow are considered "down" if the player is contacted by, or is caused to go to the ground by a defensive player.
In other words, if I tackle you, and you go to the ground, hitting a knee or elbow to the ground, you are down. In that situation, I do not believe that I have to touch you while you are on the ground, as the action of the tackle forced you to the ground.
This seems to come into play more with regards to fumbles ..... where a guy is down because his elbow hit, then the ball pops out.
That's my question, since I don't have the benefit right now of a reply, I'm asking was he touched by a steeler causing him to dive, or while he was diving or at anytime prior to crossing the goal line with the ball? Or was he only touched after he crossed the goal? In which case it would have been a TD as the act of going to ground head first doesn't constitute giving yourself up like a slide would.
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when McCoy runs, he keeps the ball between his hand and elbow. that's great for ball protection, but at the goalline, he's got to be able to extend it (if he did, it would have been a TD).
Fair enough, but if he does extend it in traffic and has it knocked away, people would be complaining that it was only second down and there was no need to reach and he should have been happy with 3rd and goal from a few inches because then we would score any way....
yes, that is the rub. the thing in this situation though was he had a clear lane to the goalline. noone was near to knock the ball out if he extended (unless the ball slipped out of his hands when he did it).
when he did the same thing on a not-quite 1st down run, it was more understandable because there were plenty of defenders around.
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I believe that he would be down if he was touched on his way to the ground if his knee or elbow then hit. It would be hard for that not to happen on a play like that. The only way I could see them not saying that he was induced to go to the ground would be if he was in the open and tripped over turf or something.
There are just too many players in a pile up like that to assume that no one touched him as he was going down.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I believe that he would be down if he was touched on his way to the ground if his knee or elbow then hit. It would be hard for that not to happen on a play like that. The only way I could see them not saying that he was induced to go to the ground would be if he was in the open and tripped over turf or something.
There are just too many players in a pile up like that to assume that no one touched him as he was going down.
But to overturn the ruling on the field, a TD, they would have had to have seen it. They aren't allowed to render rulings based on assumptions.
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I wish I could find a replay of that play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I didn't post it int he gameday thread - wasn't in it much actually... but when he came back in my first thought was that of surprise because I figured he'd be done for the game or at least for the drive... then they did a close up of his eyes and I just thought something was off... but figured the medical staff knew what they were doing... but I fully believe now that he should never have been let back in that game.
<><
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http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...57-5b1eb440efc5It appears the McCoy runs from the pocket, and 92 grabs his foot, tripping McCoy, who then falls to the ground short of the goal line. It's most apparent on the replay from the backside. 92 gets him by an ankle, and McCoy falls towards the goal line at that point. From the side view, you can see his thigh pad compress as he hits the ground with his right knee, and the ball is short of the goal line. From the end zone view, you can see him curl the ball back to his chest, preventing it from crossing before his knee hits. It also appears that 94 touches him down at that spot, but they stop the replay before definitively showing whether or not he did. He was in position, and in motion to do so though. The announcers expected the reversal after watching it from the different angles. I think it was the right call.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, I was going to say ... Harrison got a piece of him. The announcers noted Harrison being in on not only the Hillis stop, but the McCoy stop as well.
IMO it was clear on the first replay that it was coming back.
I really wish we would've gone for it. I can understand taking the points, but in that situation ... hell, I wasn't sure if we'd see the red zone again.
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Ytown, I haven't followed all the posts about this singular play, but I was watching the game last night, and it was obvious to me he was short of the goalline. It would have been a travesty if they'd have let the TD stand.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yep #92 does appear to get a piece of his foot, that's what I didn't see last night.
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For those who say Colt doesn't have the proper talent around him...
The Steeler offense looked completely different with Batch in the game. Nothing else changed from the offense. Except the QB.
QB makes all the difference.
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That pass may be the defining moment in McCoy's career in that it exposed him in a way that cannot be excused.
I just got caught up on the latest Browns news and learned the extent of McCoy's head injury, which was not yet made public at the time I made the above comment.
Seems McCoy very well could have been suffering from the affects of Harrison's hit, possibly suffering a concussion. I would not consider that "an excuse" for throwing a bad pass...but "a reason" why McCoy threw such a bad pass and used questionable judgement on that play.
The Browns medical staff comes out of this looking bad...no way should McCoy been allowed to go back in the game.
The debate will continue...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Old news considering there's a whole thread with nearly 30 replies about it already.
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It just seems like a lot of people are making retroactive judgements on what they "saw".
If you get a chance to see it. You will know. That first play where Colt comes in he is glassy eyed and slack jawed. And moving very slowly. He was unmistakably dazed and confused.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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QB makes all the difference.
Much like anything else in life its really not that simple. Yes a QB can make a difference. When your talking about an elite QB. Those guys are pretty rare.
I can think of maybe 5 out of 32 starting QBs who are good enough to make a difference on this team with no other changes.
Life is not as simple as just going out and getting one.
Vick aint helpin the Eagles much this year.
Bradford was rated very high, and started off on fire last year. Where is he now ?
Alex Smith is finally playing decently after 7 years.
Other than the Colts and Giants how many teams have actually fixed their team by drafting the big QB ? Not many I can tell you that.
Phillip Rivers is a great QB, but he cant carry the chargers all by himself.
The NFL is not as simplistic and one sided as posters want to make it seem.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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For those who say Colt doesn't have the proper talent around him...
The Steeler offense looked completely different with Batch in the game. Nothing else changed from the offense. Except the QB.
QB makes all the difference.
I agree with your thoughts, they have been in my mind all day.
By the second year and a full season of games, we should have seen some flashes by now. There is not a lot to cheer for. I like McCoy oas a player, but right now he has not shown me enough to suggest that the Browns go with him next year.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I've been trying to reserve judgement on McCoy because it seems too early to make a decision on him yet. I remember hearing Holmgren say back when he was coaching the Packers that it takes a QB about 3 years to really grasp the WCO.
To me it looks like McCoy isn't really comfortable in the offense yet. He is late on some of his reads and makes late decisions. On some other throws (like the INT to Troy P last night) He completely misses wide open recievers and throws instead into coverage. He should have never thrown the ball where he did. Instead he had another wide open guy on the left running right to the middle of the field where Troy just left.
There is a part of me that hopes it's just the learning curve and lack of training camp. Add to that the issues with the lack of talent around him and all the dropped balls it's hard to believe anyone could do better with this team.
All that said if there is some way we are able to draft either Luck or Barkley (which I don't see a way of doing either) I would race up to turn in the card and Colt would be fine as a career backup here in Cleveland.
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That pass may be the defining moment in McCoy's career in that it exposed him in a way that cannot be excused.
I just got caught up on the latest Browns news and learned the extent of McCoy's head injury, which was not yet made public at the time I made the above comment.
Seems McCoy very well could have been suffering from the affects of Harrison's hit, possibly suffering a concussion. I would not consider that "an excuse" for throwing a bad pass...but "a reason" why McCoy threw such a bad pass and used questionable judgement on that play.
The Browns medical staff comes out of this looking bad...no way should McCoy been allowed to go back in the game.
The debate will continue...
I didn't see that concussion used as an excuse when he made good throws after the hit, and I'm rather certain the hit came after the first idiotic pass which was intercepted by Poly.
Sure, the debate can continue, but the pro-McCoy side is running out of steam. It's been nothing but one reason after another this season, and a large percentage of those reasons are now called excuses.
I'd seen enough of Couch, Frye, Anderson, and Quinn. Well, now I've seen enough of McCoy. Just like the rest, some of his issues can be attributed to others, but McCoy is fully responsible for the things he can control, and he's failed at those things while showing little-to-no development.
Last night he got the best pass-blocking he's ever had against the blitz, and he did no more with it than the aforementioned bums did when their chances happened. One of the reasons which has now become an excuse is that the line doesn't block for him. That was proven to be a fallacy last night. It's also been said in McCoy's defense that he protects the ball well. With 11 fumbles and 11 INT's (and countless INT's dropped by the defenses) he clearly isn't protecting the ball on a level that can be considered a strength, especially when compared to his offensive production. Brett Favre could have fumbles and throw tons of INT's because he could light up the scoreboard. McCoy? His ceiling has always been that of a "game manager." Protecting the ball is a PRIORITY for him, not an option.
Spot-starter/elite backup, that's going to be McCoy's future in the NFL.
If we can't get Luck and we do go after a QB, my choice would be RG3. If I'm going to have to choose between short QB's, I'm going with RG3's upside and tools over Barkley's pro-style background. The rest of the QB's? No thanks.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I like RGIII as well.
This whole deal is similar to how it ended with Couch. The guy on his last legs, a blow to the head, and uproar. In this case over why he was put back in the game, in the Couch situation over the claim fans were cheering his injury.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think I was at that game, It's a 70'000 seat stadium, if 20% cheer his injury, it sounds like the fans are cheering his injury.
Mostly their probably cheering the other guys coming in, when the coaches weren't smart enough to already do it.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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So the INT in the end zone at the end of the game wasn't caused by a head injury to mcCoy? You're saying it's not possible,, That it couldn't have been simply because he threw one before so he still sucks no matter what?
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Yeah, that's what he said. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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I agree with him, but have no interest in Colt's family and such commenting in the media. I am wondering how crappy his play has to be benched. I will risk a non-concussed SW myself. This O line is a crippler of young adults. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I didn't see that concussion used as an excuse when he made good throws after the hit, and I'm rather certain the hit came after the first idiotic pass which was intercepted by Poly.
toad...did you see the "quote" I was referring to?
It was my own quote from earlier in the thread, while discussing how bad "that" pass looked..here it is again...
"That pass may be the defining moment in McCoy's career in that it exposed him in a way that cannot be excused."
I made that comment before reading that McCoy had been momentarily knocked cold after the hit. I assumed McCoy was ok to go back in and now it's clear, he may not have been ok to go back in the game.
If we look at the passes McCoy threw after the hit, he threw...
...an intentional grounding
...3 interceptions, with 2 being overturned due to challenge & def. holding
...4 incomplete passes
...6 complete (all short passes)
...and a sack
Given the fact that McCoy was clearly showing signs of a concussion after the game, it is more than reasonable to believe McCoy's performance after the hit was affected by the condition of his brain.
I did notice that while McCoy was on the ground, he held one hand up as if he was shielding his eyes from the stadium lights. That might have been one of the first signs the medical staff should have recognized.
Were there symptoms the Browns medical staff may have missed in the moments after the hit?...maybe.
We need to keep in mind, many football players are geared to say they are fine, even when they are not...that is how much some want to be on the field playing rather than on the sidelines watching.
Were there clear symptoms that should have alerted the Browns medical staff when McCoy was being interviewed in the locker room...YES..and maybe the Browns PR staff was alerted by the medical staff to keep the media interview short. Whether the part about having the media lights turned down was at Colt's request or the medical staff's request is unclear.
Hopefully the Browns PR staff notified the medical staff of the symptoms that McCoy was exhibiting during the interview period, if they didn't already realize McCoy was suffering from concussion like symptoms.
Toad...I'm sure you are not about excuse any of the passes McCoy threw in this game as your agenda is clear...you don't like McCoy and have not for years and you don't want to see him as the Browns QB...you have that right.
I want to see the kid get a fair shot and that includes giving consideration that McCoy's condition may have been impaired to the point he should not have been allowed to continue playing. If the Browns front office feels McCoy can be their QB of future with another year of coaching and experience, fine with me.
The last thing I want to see is the Browns waste another high draft pick on a QB, if it is not needed. Clearly those most qualified to make that decision "are not on this message board", but are in Berea, Ohio.
If the Browns address other areas of need in the draft and give McCoy another year to see if he can be the Browns QB of the future, I'm ok with that. If the Browns decide they have seen enough of McCoy and move in another direction, I'm ok with that too.
Given the fact that McCoy was dinged before throwing the horrible pass that was intercepted in the end zone, the debate, "Is It Too Soon to Give Up on McCoy?"...will continue.
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toad...did you see the "quote" I was referring to?
Sure, I saw it, but what's the point of even mentioning it? To show that you'd grown weary of McCoy, only to change directions after you've made the assumption that his possible concussion had turned him into a dunce who couldn't throw the football, therefore excusing the INT in the end-zone, and all subsequent INT's that should have been caught by the defense.
But here's the problem. In spite of everything that's been written, I haven't seen one single player come out and say that McCoy looked dazed, or that he wasn't able to function out there. He had no problem processing the complex information of the plays coming in to the huddle. On the INT in question, he had no problem knowing where to go with the ball. He just didn't get it where it was supposed to go, which is really no different than what we've seen during his entire non-concussioned career.
Let me give you McCoy's own words, and you tell me if this sounds like a guy who's mind was scrambled:
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“The pocket kind of collapsed in the middle,” McCoy said. “At that point, I was trying to work (safety Troy) Polamalu, move him one way or another.
“They had a post outside and a corner outside. I knew it was man to man, because they were coming after us.
“I wasn’t able to step completely into the throw. I just didn’t get enough on it.”
You wanna say it's possible the possible concussion affected his play. Actually, you essentially do say it affected his play. Such is your right, but I didn't see a guy out there who wasn't in control of his faculties. I sure as Hell don't HEAR a guy that was jacked up. That's complex stuff he's got to process in a moments notice, and he did everything right...except make the throw.
All I saw was yet another iteration of the same guy who has been an inferior passer since the day he got here. Now if you wanna say the shot to the head caused him to lose his nerve and throw that pick because he threw the football while spinning away and backwards from a rush when he didn't have to, I'd agree with you, but that's not an excuse, it's just more damning evidence. He knew EXACTLY where he was supposed to go with the ball, and when you watch the replay, you can CLEARLY see he double-clutches the ball causing it to come out late and short. That's been his MO all year when he didn't have concussions, so I'm not buying it.
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I want to see the kid get a fair shot and that includes giving consideration that McCoy's condition may have been impaired to the point he should not have been allowed to continue playing.
He's been given a fair shot. His ceiling was only so high, and he's shown precious little development during the time of his career when all good QB's make BIG leaps in that regard. As noted, he didn't have a concussion when he threw that ill-advised pass which Poly intercepted.
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Clearly those most qualified to make that decision "are not on this message board", but are in Berea, Ohio.
And just like with the decisions to go with Couch, Frye, Anderson, and Quinn, they were wrong. They've since been fired. Most qualified or otherwise, they've all blown the decision, and as your subtle dig tried to suggest that I and others aren't qualified, well, I was VEHEMENTLY and LOUDLY pro Aaron Rodgers when he came out, so....yeah.... 
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If the Browns address other areas of need in the draft and give McCoy another year to see if he can be the Browns QB of the future, I'm ok with that. If the Browns decide they have seen enough of McCoy and move in another direction, I'm ok with that too.
Good. That's a decided vote of "no confidence" on your part, since if you can't say he is the guy, but you'd be just fine with Browns moving on, then if they cut bait, you won't have anything to say in terms of suggesting the organization was wrong changing directions.
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Given the fact that McCoy was dinged before throwing the horrible pass that was intercepted in the end zone, the debate, "Is It Too Soon to Give Up on McCoy?"...will continue.
As every player will tell you, at this point in the season, they are all dinged. You wanna play the "reasonable doubt" card to let the debate rage on. Sure thing, Mac. But as I'd said earlier, the pro-Colt crowd are running out of ammo and quickly. To this day, there's still the occasional Couch debate, too
In three out of the last four games, McCoy has posted his worst QB ratings of the season. He's going backwards when he's supposed to be making big strides. I don't think there's that much left to debate...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Tim Couch, for all the grief he received here, was 10-14 as a starter against division teams, and that was with some pretty wretched talent around him. One of my fondest memories since the Browns' return is TC waving bye-bye to Ravens fans after knocking them out of the playoff race at Baltimore.
He's only 33 or so, maybe we should bring him back.
After all, McCoy has yet to beat Baltimore, Cinci, or Pittsburgh.
Let the Timmy-Colt debate begin!
Full circle, baby!
Just kidding ... I think.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Yeah, that's what he said.
well, essentially, it is. He said it was an excuse.. So isn't that the same as saying the head butt had not bearing?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think that this team has taken a step back from last years team....
And I think that McCoy is taking the brunt of it......
I really haven't seen a whole lot to say that McCoy definitely isn't the guy....
I think we worked hard last year to establish an identity---and then, we fired the coach, got rid of Vickers (replacing him with a fb who can't seem to handle the position), and moved away from the run game.....
Last years team was better---despite playing against a tougher schedule.
I don't like how fast Shurnur moves away from the running game...and I hate the fact that we have gone from a tough-as-nails team that beat down so-called finesse teams last year--to a team this year that can't beat down anyone..
Everyone want to blame the Colt for his int's this past game---but we should have won this one running it in from the 5 with three minutes left.....
We had 4 downs from the 5 with like 3 minutes left in the game....we could've run it 4 times and took the clock down to under two minutes while probably scoring the td....
Last year we were building a team to do that---this year we totally abandoned the physical run game....And we are worse off for it....
On another note---Rob Ryans 3-4>>>>>>>Jaurons 4-3........JMHO....
McCoy deserves another year while Shurmur and Heck re-tool this team in yet another attempt at a rebuild.......
B/c lets face it.....the personnel we have isn't fitting in with what Shurmur wants to do......at least thats what I think....
I do wonder how our offensive output differs between last year and this year at this time...yards rushing/passing, td's scored, etc....
Somehow it feels like Daboll ran a much more physical, potent, and disciplined O last year.....
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Is it too soon to give up on McCoy...maybe not after watching last nights Int in the end zone.
That pass may be the defining moment in McCoy's career in that it exposed him in a way that cannot be excused.
I did not get the game as TW does not provide the NFL channel, but I have watched the highlights and I'm troubled by the Int in the endzone.
I believe McCoy said he was unable to step into the throw because the pocket collapsed around him...and he is correct..that is what happened.
BUT, McCoy still threw the pass rather than throwing it away or taking the sack, which was an error in his judgement. McCoy chose to throw the pass up for some unknown reason and the worst thing that could have happened... happend.
If McCoy is unable to make that pass because he can't step into it and he still threw the pass...we now have two issues to consider, physical and mental.
Those running this franchise have to consider whether the areas McCoy is showing weakness in, can they be corrected?
Im commenting on this post and only this post didnt read any others.
The first thing I saw was Wallace who is very schooled in the WCO look good then McCoy after having his bell rung come back in.
After that INT I told my wife I cant blame Shurmur for that he went for it and Colt failed him,
Later in the game I said that Colt has that same look weve seen from alot of QB's here deer in the headlights. Sad to say but Colt is done. I love the kid he has moxie and guts but hes done.
Now I think we need to get some playmakers at WR in this draft then next year if colt doesnt somehow shake this off grab out QB of the future because like it or not we are not going to win more then 5 games next year as well.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I like RGIII as well.
This whole deal is similar to how it ended with Couch. The guy on his last legs, a blow to the head, and uproar. In this case over why he was put back in the game, in the Couch situation over the claim fans were cheering his injury.
except Couch proved for 5 YEARS he could not read NFL defenses.
While the coach showed imagination in the first half by the second he reverted to predictable play calling. To evaluate a QB with lousy wrs, no running game, and a porous line, not to mention not allowed to audible is idiotic. yet McCoy, Cribbs, and Hillis will be scapegoated and Gone. How does year two of Holmgren look?
with a brain dead coach, a front office that CHOSE to sit on their hands in free agency and make delusional comments about the readiness of the wr corp, the oline, and no need to keep a top blocking FB or depend on an oft injured RB as a key guy..how did all that work out?
I reevaluate both Holmgren and his idiot hire.
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Legend
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OP
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But here's the problem. In spite of everything that's been written, I haven't seen one single player come out and say that McCoy looked dazed, or that he wasn't able to function out there. He had no problem processing the complex information of the plays coming in to the huddle. On the INT in question, he had no problem knowing where to go with the ball. He just didn't get it where it was supposed to go, which is really no different than what we've seen during his entire non-concussioned career.
Toad...so, because McCoy's teammates have not said anything, that is enough evidence for you to say McCoy was fine?
I can think of one big reason McCoy's teammates are not saying a word about how he looked in the huddle...let's see if you can figure it out?
TOAD...have you ever had a concussion?...you ever play football?....just curious.
How an indvidual is affected by a concussion depends on just where the injury in the brain occurs and what function that part of the brain controls.
If one area of the brain is injured, it might affect speech while another area might affect thinking and another area might affect strength and/or thinking. This is not BS and you can read about it here...
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Clearly those most qualified to make that decision "are not on this message board", but are in Berea, Ohio.
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And just like with the decisions to go with Couch, Frye, Anderson, and Quinn, they were wrong. They've since been fired. Most qualified or otherwise, they've all blown the decision, and as your subtle dig tried to suggest that I and others aren't qualified, well, I was VEHEMENTLY and LOUDLY pro Aaron Rodgers when he came out, so....yeah....
toad...you obviously have made up your mind about McCoy and have had it made up for years as you claim to be the QB guru on this board. But over the years I have watched you waffle and end up being on all sides of a QB issue depending on how the individual played in the last game...you liked Jeff Garcia and Charlie Frye but hated Derek Anderson who QBed the Browns to 10 wins.
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Given the fact that McCoy was dinged before throwing the horrible pass that was intercepted in the end zone, the debate, "Is It Too Soon to Give Up on McCoy?"...will continue.
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As every player will tell you, at this point in the season, they are all dinged. You wanna play the "reasonable doubt" card to let the debate rage on.
Toad...every player has a concussion?
Nice try at changing the context of my use of "dinged", but you know we are talking about dinged in the head as in a "concussion".
There are times when you make sense for a while, but even that can change if one just gives you more time...example below, your words..
....... So my point is that we don't need a new QB, we don't need a new RB, we don't need a new WR........we need offensive linemen that can actually block. Everything else will fal into place, so saying Frye needs to be replaced right now doesn't make a lick of sense. The flipside is that saying Anderson should makes about as much sense........
Toad...Nuff said....
I don't know what the Browns will do concerning our QB situation. It would be nice to see him play behind an improved offensive line and on that issue, I'm sure Toad and I agree.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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But here's the problem. In spite of everything that's been written, I haven't seen one single player come out and say that McCoy looked dazed, or that he wasn't able to function out there. He had no problem processing the complex information of the plays coming in to the huddle. On the INT in question, he had no problem knowing where to go with the ball. He just didn't get it where it was supposed to go, which is really no different than what we've seen during his entire non-concussioned career.
Toad...so, because McCoy's teammates have not said anything, that is enough evidence for you to say McCoy was fine?
I can think of one big reason McCoy's teammates are not saying a word about how he looked in the huddle...let's see if you can figure it out?
TOAD...have you ever had a concussion?...you ever play football?....just curious.
How an indvidual is affected by a concussion depends on just where the injury in the brain occurs and what function that part of the brain controls.
If one area of the brain is injured, it might affect speech while another area might affect thinking and another area might affect strength and/or thinking. This is not BS and you can read about it here...
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Clearly those most qualified to make that decision "are not on this message board", but are in Berea, Ohio.
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And just like with the decisions to go with Couch, Frye, Anderson, and Quinn, they were wrong. They've since been fired. Most qualified or otherwise, they've all blown the decision, and as your subtle dig tried to suggest that I and others aren't qualified, well, I was VEHEMENTLY and LOUDLY pro Aaron Rodgers when he came out, so....yeah....
toad...you obviously have made up your mind about McCoy and have had it made up for years as you claim to be the QB guru on this board. But over the years I have watched you waffle and end up being on all sides of a QB issue depending on how the individual played in the last game...you liked Jeff Garcia and Charlie Frye but hated Derek Anderson who QBed the Browns to 10 wins.
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Given the fact that McCoy was dinged before throwing the horrible pass that was intercepted in the end zone, the debate, "Is It Too Soon to Give Up on McCoy?"...will continue.
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As every player will tell you, at this point in the season, they are all dinged. You wanna play the "reasonable doubt" card to let the debate rage on.
Toad...every player has a concussion?
Nice try at changing the context of my use of "dinged", but you know we are talking about dinged in the head as in a "concussion".
There are times when you make sense for a while, but even that can change if one just gives you more time...example below, your words..
....... So my point is that we don't need a new QB, we don't need a new RB, we don't need a new WR........we need offensive linemen that can actually block. Everything else will fal into place, so saying Frye needs to be replaced right now doesn't make a lick of sense. The flipside is that saying Anderson should makes about as much sense........
Toad...Nuff said....
I don't know what the Browns will do concerning our QB situation. It would be nice to see him play behind an improved offensive line and on that issue, I'm sure Toad and I agree.
Mac your positions are valid yet there is a reason Toad is FUZZY using the word dinged. I believe the QBs father. I believe when a player needs the press to turn down the lights he has suffered a concussion. I believe it was THE most viscous hit of the year...yet in the closing moments of the game Shurmer reinserts his "dinged" QB and the trainers only ask about his hand.
No Other player DARE speak. Colt , Hillis and Cribbs arre most likely GONE. three new holes for the GM to fill. My Xmas wish is the Eagles fire Reid and we sieze on him as a HC. Shurmer is WAY over his head and has show ZERO improvement over theseason.
This team plays sloppy. Blocks horribly and tackles sloppy as well. the special teams are rotten blocking for Cribbs. When Dione Sanders was asked what was wrong with Cribbs he properly called out the players blocking for him as not good and the loss of a top special teams coach. The cherry was calling very few blitzes on the immobile whale Rothlisberger.
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Hall of Famer
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Toad...so, because McCoy's teammates have not said anything, that is enough evidence for you to say McCoy was fine?
Singularly, nope, but it factors in, just like the thought process where McCoy talked about reading coverages, trying to move Poly with his eyes, and making the throw. It all adds up. It's just my opinion, and if you choose to go back to the "reasonable doubt" card, you'll always have a fortress to retreat to. I will never be able to definitively say he was fine, but I CAN say he absolutely didn't look like he was having any problems out there, and his own words tell me his mind was just fine. Quote:
TOAD...have you ever had a concussion?...you ever play football?....just curious.
Yeah, but only high school, and yes, I had a couple of concussions. My body had a strong enough frame but it didn't take the beatings well.
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toad...you obviously have made up your mind about McCoy and have had it made up for years
I was always a doubter for years, but just made up my mind Sunday night. 
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you claim to be the QB guru on this board.
Nope, never once said that. The things I have said about our QB's, unfortunately, have been proven to be on the mark. Quote:
But over the years I have watched you waffle and end up being on all sides of a QB issue depending on how the individual played in the last game...you liked Jeff Garcia and Charlie Frye but hated Derek Anderson who QBed the Browns to 10 wins.
Boy, if THAT isn't some revisionist history.  I was hammering on Couch when 90% of the board had his back. And to suggest I liked Charlie Frye is probably the furthest thing from the truth you've ever stated. I hated the pick coming out, and I didn't like the guy when he was here. The MOST I ever hoped for, and I said it often, was for him to be a viable backup. That's hardly liking a guy.
As for Derek Anderson, he made several million dollars from roughly a 7-game hot streak. Which team is he a backup for again? Arizona? The Jags? I forget how many stops he's made.
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I don't know what the Browns will do concerning our QB situation. It would be nice to see him play behind an improved offensive line and on that issue, I'm sure Toad and I agree.
Prior to this quote, I've no idea where you plucked those words from, or the context from which they came. It's not worth the time to find out. However, regarding your quote, the reason I stamped "return to sender" of McCoy is because against the Steelers, he got GREAT blocking and had many opportunities to make plays. He didn't. That was his chance and he did nothing with it.
Yeah, I agree the line needs to be upgrade. But that isn't all. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is It Too Soon to Give Up on
McCoy?..PART TWO...
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