|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Source: 'System failure' by Browns By Chris Mortensen ESPN December 11, 2011, 11:38 AM ET Beneath the headlines and anger of Colt McCoy's father after the Browns quarterback suffered a concussion Thursday via a helmet hit by the Steelers linebacker James Harrison is a medical review by the NFL and NFL Players Association which one union source is calling a "blatant system failure" by the Browns for failing to perform a sideline concussion exam and allowing McCoy to return to the game. The initial league review determined the standard SCAT2 concussion test was not administered until Friday morning, which produced abnormal results. The Browns medical staff said McCoy initially only complained about an injury to his left hand. Sources say the incident likely will be the catalyst to assigning an independent neurologist to each game in the future. Browns coach Pat Shurmur said Friday he was confident the team's medical staff followed the NFL's strict guidelines on head injuries when they assessed McCoy on the sideline. But McCoy's father, Brad, a longtime high school football coach, had been critical of the Browns' handling of his son, saying Colt couldn't remember the play that briefly knocked him out of the game. web page It seems only fair to take into consideration Colts physical and mental condition on the plays he QBed after the hit by Harrison.
What the Browns were thinking, putting McCoy back in the game without checking him for a concussion after the way he was laid out is a question Shurmur and the medical staff have to answer.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
So what do you do when a player is clocked, knocked down, but not out ..... gets up and says his hand hurts .... then, after having it checked and sitting out a couple of plays walks to the head coach and says "Coach, I'm ready to go back in"?
If a guy does not exhibit concussion symptoms, do you test him anyway? What if it's the Super Bowl and your team is down by 3 with 1 minute left ....... and your guy gets hit. Do you pull him to run tests?
I think that a team has a responsibility to administer standard concussion tests if the guy shows signs of a concussion. By all accounts, and listening to McCoy give detailed answers to questions in his post game presser, I would have to assume that he did not show any such signs. If that is the case, then should the team give him a concussion test? What abut a running back who is tackled and hits his head on the ground, or on another player's knee? Do you immediately pull him out of the game, without any other cause except what appears to be a hit on the head, to run tests?
At some point, I would think that the player has to show symptoms before you pull him from the game. If he seems coherent, is answering questions, and seems to be aware, then why would you assume that he is concussed .... especially when he is complaining of an injury to a different body part? (in this case, his hand)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
I wanted to add this:
The Browns had 2 other players leave that game with concussions. (Marecic and Watson) They were diagnosed, and were pulled. Why would they decide not to do so with the QB? (especially with a capable back-up in Wallace)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
It's all a big conspiracy YTown, I'm surprised you can't see it...
• McCoy gets clocked. He's down long enough that he has to set out at least one play.
• Shurmur knows this. He doesn't have time to check on Colt. The game doesn't stop while the medical staff and the head coach tends to a player.
• Shurmur's focus is now on Wallace for the next play. The medical staff will take care of McCoy. For now there's a play to run or face delay of game.
• Colt is talking to the doctors. He is complaining about his hand. During that discussion the doctors, who are elite professionals in the sports medical profession and who are experienced and trained to notice concussion-like symptoms notice no concussion-like symptoms. Why would they? It's not like something happened recently that would have them concerned about that possibility.
• They wrap his hand.
• Wallace runs two plays.
• Browns are now first and goal on the 5 yard line.
• Every coach wants his starter in when the team is first and goal on the 5 yard line.
• Shurmur is told by Colt and the medical staff that he is ready.
• Shurmur replaces Wallace with McCoy, his starter.
• Browns don't score a TD to take the lead.
• Browns fans are mad that the Browns lost and now look for a reason that they failed in the only series of plays that possibly could have resulted in a Browns win out of the entire sixty minute game.
• Fans decide the easiest way to solve this problem is to find one single person to shoulder the entire blame. That way they don't have to deal with the overload of thinking required to study the real reason the Browns lost. Lynch one guy and be done with it.
• It's decided in a general consensus that the entire blame lies with Shurmur because he didn't attend medical school before being hired as a head coach so he left the medical decision in the hands of the trained professionals.
• Shurmur should have conducted his own concussion evaluation, regardless of his background, because he is the head coach.
• But he is too stupid to do so
• Besides, He and Holmgren hate McCoy. So running him back out there glassy-eyed, dizzy, unable to think and asking if he could write a letter to Santa for a puppy could result in a career ending injury which would solve the problem once-and-for-all of what to do with a quarterback they hate.
• The medical staff is sequestered so as not to "spill-the-beans".
• During his interview the PR guy dims the lights hoping to fool McCoy into thinking there are no members of the press in attendance hoping he'll just shrug his shoulders and walk away. He is too smart to be fooled like that. The plan fails.
• The medical staff are then forced by the PR guy to tell Shurmur, a couple hours later, that Colt is "just now" showing delayed, concussion-like symptoms. Something that's never happened before in medical history.
• mac exposes everything in a speculation finding mission
• Guys like you and me are too stupid, blind or drunk to take it all in.
• It was all a plan to make Shurmur look bad. Colt was in on it from the beginnning. So was his dad. So was Harrison.
• Shurmur gets fired.
• akronjoe throws a party inviting everyone from the message board to free beer.
• akronjoe then goes bankrupt losing his house because he had no idea what he'd gotten himself into.
• The discussion continues without akronjoe or Shurmur
• That last part there, that there's ironic ain't it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
I wanted to add this:
The Browns had 2 other players leave that game with concussions. (Marecic and Watson) They were diagnosed, and were pulled. Why would they decide not to do so with the QB? (especially with a capable back-up in Wallace)
thats what makes it more suspect..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817 |
Quote:
Quote:
I wanted to add this:
The Browns had 2 other players leave that game with concussions. (Marecic and Watson) They were diagnosed, and were pulled. Why would they decide not to do so with the QB? (especially with a capable back-up in Wallace)
thats what makes it more suspect..
How so??
Are you saying the Browns wanted him to fail or get hurt??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Of course they did. One look at mac's facts will tell you that.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wanted to add this:
The Browns had 2 other players leave that game with concussions. (Marecic and Watson) They were diagnosed, and were pulled. Why would they decide not to do so with the QB? (especially with a capable back-up in Wallace)
thats what makes it more suspect..
How so??
Are you saying the Browns wanted him to fail or get hurt??
no.. but how does the red flag not go off after that hit to check for concussions? cmon.. shady business..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817 |
You say no, then call it shady business.
Okie dokie.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
You say no, then call it shady business.
Okie dokie.
<ont class="post"> so if u are the head coach.. concussion doesn't pop in your head as a possible injury? after the hit.. colt was laying on his back dazed.. not holding his hand. for whatever reason they deemed it fit to say that the hand injury >> head injury.. and ignored the later until the next day. lol. thats crazy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
Watch McCoy's post game presser. he's coherent, aware, and knowledgeable about what transpired during the game, including coverages and such.
It is entirely possible that he was OK until after the game, and once he had a chance to sit down, it all caught up with him. He got a headache, and then started to show the start of symptoms.
After the interception, the Browns kicked off. Don't you think that if McCoy was glassy eyed and slack jawed in the huddle that a player or 3 wouldn't have gone to the head coach and said "Hey Coach, something is wrong with Colt, and he probably shouldn't go back out there."?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
It is entirely possible that he was OK until after the game, and once he had a chance to sit down, it all caught up with him. He got a headache, and then started to show the start of symptoms.
I would say there's a very, very, very slim possibility of what you describe above.
In general, the longest it takes for concussion symptoms to set in is around 15 minutes after one occurs.
There are variations, of course, so, yes, it's possible. But highly unlikely.
I'd give your theory some more credence if the Browns did their due diligence and checked the kid out properly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
Again ..... if a guy gets hit, appears to be coherent, answers questions about an injury to a different part of his body, and looks like he's OK, how far do you go with testing?
Not to be a jerk .... but if I know that the QB will have to sit out 5 minutes or more if he gets hit helmet to helmet and stays down for a minute ..... then I might be tempted to tell my defensive players to take him out if there is a late, critical drive. He wouldn't even need a real concussion, or to exhibit symptoms, just the idea that he "might" have one would be enough to cause him to miss the rest of the game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Again ..... if a guy gets hit, appears to be coherent, answers questions about an injury to a different part of his body, and looks like he's OK, how far do you go with testing?
You could certainly argue that this is hindsight thinking, but I give that guy a procedural check after that hit 10 times out of 10.
Not only was it a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit where his neck was snapped back, but he certainly did not appear to me to be coherent. He looked glassy eyed and dazed.
If there was ever a time to check a guy out for a concussion, it was there.
Even a half-assed SCAT2 test doesn't take that long. You ask 5 questions.
At what venue are we at today?
Which half is it now?
Who scored last?
What team did you play last?
Did you win your last game?
You check their eyes and make them perform an upper limb coordination test. It could've and should've been done.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
j/c..
the guy got blasted by James Harrison.. one of the most lethal defenders in the game.. and he has a HISTORY of jackin' Cleveland Browns players ALL UP!!!
U check after a hit like that.. point blank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
Thats exactly what I was thinking ytown. At some point you have to take the players word. On the other hand if they are exhibiting signs of being out of it, then they need to be sat and checked out further.
What you bring up about the defense is exactly what i was thinking too...I could see that happening, with a qb that is fine watching his team lose from the sideline.
Alert and oriented x4 is being alert to time, place, person, and event. I'm sure something like this is asked to a player. If they hesitate for an obvious question then there is a problem.
This is a big problem, and i'm not sure what the answer is. On the one hand its a human's life. What they do should in essence be up to them. They need to be aware of the dangers, and need to be sat if there is any suspicion of an injury by a doctor.
The whole thing sucks. If a player goes back in hurt, then he may screw up and cost a game or cause himself irreversible harm later in life. If he pulls himself out of the game, then he's a wuss, and should have sucked it up, or we lost because he took himself out.
If anything, On a helmet to helmet hit, the defensive player should have to remain out of the game as long as the possibly injured player does. After all his helmet was hit too.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,150
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,150 |
Quote:
How an indvidual is affected by a concussion depends on just where the injury in the brain occurs and what function that part of the brain controls.
If one area of the brain is injured, it might affect speech while another area might affect thinking and another area might affect strength and/or thinking. This is not BS and you can read about it here...
Did you get this info from the same place you got your hamstring expertise?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
So what happens if this happens:
"Are you OK?"
Yeah, I think so. man, he really blasted me."
"Are you hurt?"
"Yeah, except for my hand. I think I landed on it wrong, or maybe someone stepped on it."
"Is there anything else hurt?"
"No, I don't think so. It was one hell of a hit, but I think I'm OK. Man I really want that TD. Can I get back in the game? I really want to try and help us get the TD."
If that happens, do you still do a test? If the guy is looking you in the eyes, and seems coherent, do you still do the test?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817 |
Tell you what, maybe we should just check him out the rest of the season, just to be safe.
I'd like to see Wallace the rest of the way.
The Coltmeister is done.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
No ... please ...... we might beat Arizona with Wallace.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
So what happens if this happens:
"Are you OK?"
Yeah, I think so. man, he really blasted me."
"Are you hurt?"
"Yeah, except for my hand. I think I landed on it wrong, or maybe someone stepped on it."
"Is there anything else hurt?"
"No, I don't think so. It was one hell of a hit, but I think I'm OK. Man I really want that TD. Can I get back in the game? I really want to try and help us get the TD."
If that happens, do you still do a test? If the guy is looking you in the eyes, and seems coherent, do you still do the test?
After that hit?
Absolutely.
And again ... didn't look coherent to me. I'm not on the sideline, but the dude looked dazed enough that I take the five minutes to give him the standard test.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,544 |
How the hell can you tell, on TV, if a player looks coherent or not?  McCoy usually has a sleepy eyed look anyway.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
It was the first thing I noticed when they zoomed in on his face, his eyes where glassy
#brownsgoodkarma
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,817 |
Are you a nurse or something???
Personally I don't even think it was a bad hit.
Go back and watch Butkus. He hit like that all the time. I wish we had players who hit like that.
No wonder we suck. We don't hit and have excuse mongers as fans.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Are you a nurse or something???
No, but I've had three concussions (explains a lot, huh?  ).
I'm not giving a qualified medical opinion, but almost no one else here is, either.
The standard sports concussion test takes 5 minutes at most. Why McCoy wasn't given one ... I don't know.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,859
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,859 |
As soon as they showed a close up of McCoy's face I said to the people watching the game with me that McCoy has a concussion. And before one of you asks, yes I am a medical professional. Determining a need to check for a concussion is not a difficult decision to make.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532 |
Quote:
As soon as they showed a close up of McCoy's face I said to the people watching the game with me that McCoy has a concussion. And before one of you asks, yes I am a medical professional. Determining a need to check for a concussion is not a difficult decision to make.
+1...I said the same thing, but I am not a medical professional, just a dumb roughneck, on a drilling rig! lol
#brownsgoodkarma
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
And before one of you asks, yes I am a medical professional. Determining a need to check for a concussion is not a difficult decision to make.
Yet the Browns medical staff could not make it.
It's either that or a classic mac conspiracy.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
Is it Too soon to give up on McCoy?
Is it Too soon to give up on McCoy?
I saw TJ Yates lead a 2 minute offense on 1 drive, a 10 play drive, (memory only) make some plays vs the Cincinnati Bengals that Colt McCoy and McCoy in this Browns offense are NEVER going to be able to make. 8, approimatly 8 positive plays, quick plays,
running all over the field, using arm strength, ARM STRENGTH to the point I thought his arm would be fatigued, his (running around, even to the sideline during bengal timeouts to talk to the coach) would be fatigued. His 2, count it TWO spiked footballs, his scramble for 15+ on a 3rd or 4th down, .
Yeah I'm talking about the mighty TJ Yates, of the Texans, (where did he come from? anywhere?) NOT the Texans starter, he is out for the season, I don't even think he's the first backup of the Texans.
I see TJ Yates running 2 minute scoring drives,
I see Tony Romo with 60 yard bombs in the air for 80 yard passes in the early 4th or late 3rd quarter.
(suddenly " What a wonderful world" song has entered my brain)
I see teams after teams, saying how do you do, better quarterbacks on each of them, you know its true, ... and I think to myself , what a won der ful world.
Look at the playoff picture, and thats a whole other argument, ( steelers should never have to go on the road to the broncos with 2 games better record.) Look at the playoff picture
Jets, Better qb
Colts, Injured Reserve, and after April Good Luck not being a better qb
Raiders, ?
Houston, TJ Yates, but Shaub was a better qb
Cincinnati, even Dalton is playing better than McCoy
Baltimore,
Pittsburgh
New England, not even a ?
( what is the oppisite of give up on? ? Have faith in?)
The Question is NOT is it too soon to give up on McCoy?
The Question is how did they have faith in McCoy at any point and time in the First place?
The Queston is , is McCoy EVER going to be able to do what TJ Yates did today vs the Bengals?
Is he EVER going to have and ADVANTAGE over other teams you have to compete against to get a playoff spot, (their quarterbacks) ?
I don't care if " He's the man" and " He's making all the throws" and " He's getting it done" if He's doing ALLLLL of that and STILL isn't even quick enough, polished enough, and fast acting enough, in the offense, to look average when compared to ...
Well TJ Yates, and other teams backups that they settled for SINCE the start of the regular season, ( Curtis Painter) .
If he can't look better than those guys, then the question is NOT, Is It Too Soon to give up on McCoy.
The Question is , Why haven't they gotton someone else in here Who can DO This Thing
Who Can Be a LEGITIMATE starting quarterback in the NFL, Already?!
The Other Question is, What is Wrong with the offense, Coaching Wise, that they can't get a quarterback that can run a 2 minute offense?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,859
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,859 |
Quote:
Yeah I'm talking about the mighty TJ Yates, of the Texans, (where did he come from? anywhere?)
Yates played at UNC. He was given the majority of the credit for the Tar Heels offense stinking it up when he was a senior. Many around here (I live in Charlotte the heart of Tar Heel country) were surprised that he was even drafted let alone taken in the 5th round.
Last edited by Jester; 12/12/11 10:16 AM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah I'm talking about the mighty TJ Yates, of the Texans, (where did he come from? anywhere?)
Yates played at UNC. He was given the majority of the credit for the Tar Heels offense stinking it up when he was a senior. Many around here (I live in Charlotte the heart of Tar Heel country) were surprised that he was even drafted let alone taken in the 5th round.
just to remind others who may have forgotten: the scandal-ridden Tar Heel team that had the suspended players (including Little)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
No ... please ...... we might beat Arizona with Wallace.
I thought the same thing 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
The Question is , Why haven't they gotton someone else in here Who can DO This Thing
Who Can Be a LEGITIMATE starting quarterback in the NFL, Already?!
U know the answer to that ..everyone should.
But at the end of the season, the question will be firmly laid out and I suspect I know the answer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,082
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,082 |
Quote:
I saw TJ Yates lead a 2 minute offense on 1 drive, a 10 play drive, (memory only) make some plays vs the Cincinnati Bengals that Colt McCoy and McCoy in this Browns offense are NEVER going to be able to make. 8, approimatly 8 positive plays, quick plays,
You gotta remenber, The Houston Offense was doing a pretty good job all year.. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that with a QB change, as long as the guy can at least play, that the drop off wouldn't be the end of the world. (that's not to say that Yates isn't good, in fact, he looked amazing, but was it all him, or was it the total package)
The Browns offense with or without McCoy isn't all that and a bag of chips.. so plugging Yates in here would not make our offense suddenly appear good,,, or at least not at good as Houstons looked in that drive.
Since this is a thread about McCoy, I'm going to assume you are trying to say that it's fine to give up on McCoy at this point.. What I'm saying is that we don't have the supporting cast so how do you know what he can or can't do?
By the way, I thought that Houston did a fantastic job coming back and kicking some Cincy butt..
Speaking of which.,,., The bengals were in the hunt for a playoff spot and still, thier stadium was only 3/4 full....
Talk about no support..wow
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
What I'm saying is that we don't have the supporting cast so how do you know what he can or can't do?
Because each and every single player can be judged based on what they can control.
I'm telling you, Ty Detmer had all the tools needed to be a great QB in this league. We just didn't put enough good people around him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
From Peter King's MMQB: Quote:
The Browns should build around Colt McCoy, not draft a quarterback in 2012 to replace him. I'd seen snippets of McCoy flailing around this year, but hadn't watched every throw of a game. And so I watched Thursday night to get some sense of the near- and long-term prospects of the former University of Texas quarterback. And I came away thinking the Browns should stick with him and use a rich 2012 draft to finally build the kind of offense around McCoy that any quarterback would need to succeed.
Mike Holmgren is a disciple of Bill Walsh. I remember when Walsh was shown a few plays of Charles Haley rushing the passer at James Madison; he told his scouts he really wanted him. "If we see him make a few plays like this, we can coach him to do it all the time,'' Walsh said, and he was proved a prophet -- Haley became a top NFL pass-rusher for San Francisco and Dallas.
Well, on Thursday night, I saw McCoy, with limited help from grade-D skill players, make enough plays to convince me he's not the problem. Now, I realize he made two or three idiotic throws in the second half -- and you're not going to win doing that consistently. But one of the bad throws came after he was concussed and should never have been put back in the game. And those throws have to be addressed.
But he did enough good things that I came away thinking: Use the three picks in the top 40 next April (Cleveland has its own first- and-second-round picks, plus Atlanta's first-rounder from the Julio Jones deal last April) to help McCoy, not replace him. Three plays showed a mature quarterback making good decisions:
1. On the first series of the game, using play-action, McCoy set up, looked over his options and found tight end Evan Moore down the left side on a crossing route with a step on linebacker Lawrence Timmons. The high-arcing pass settled into Moore's arms. Gain of 33.
2. Also on the first series, Josh Cribbs found a gap downfield in the left seam and McCoy made a great touch pass over cornerback Ike Taylor. Gain of 25.
3. In the third quarter, on third-and-eight, down 7-3, McCoy faced a five-man rush and moved up in the pocket. Feeling pressure, he threw the ball about five feet to the right of tight end Alex Smith, because that was the only window open to make the throw -- Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark and William Gay converged on Smith and seemed ready to pancake him.
But the throw was zipped in perfectly, Smith made a diving catch, and the Browns had a first down. Good judgment, great throw.
Of course, we wouldn't be talking about any of this if McCoy didn't make some brain-fart throws. But I believe he can be coached out of those -- it's what Bill Walsh would believe, watching him -- and I believe some of that stems from the fact that the Browns are a poor offensive team as a whole.
McCoy has holes. He also has a coach, Pat Shurmur, who can correct those, and is in an offense he's so well-suited to run. He's well-liked and respected in the locker room. If I'm Browns GM Tom Heckert, I'm looking for an offseason upgrade at wide receiver (the Browns need two), guard, running back and tight end ... before I even think about replacing the quarterback.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
Quote:
The Browns should build around Colt McCoy, not draft a quarterback in 2012 to replace him. I'd seen snippets of McCoy flailing around this year, but hadn't watched every throw of a game. And so I watched Thursday night to get some sense of the near- and long-term prospects of the former University of Texas quarterback. And I came away thinking the Browns should stick with him and use a rich 2012 draft to finally build the kind of offense around McCoy that any quarterback would need to succeed.
Mike Holmgren is a disciple of Bill Walsh. I remember when Walsh was shown a few plays of Charles Haley rushing the passer at James Madison; he told his scouts he really wanted him. "If we see him make a few plays like this, we can coach him to do it all the time,'' Walsh said, and he was proved a prophet -- Haley became a top NFL pass-rusher for San Francisco and Dallas.
Well, on Thursday night, I saw McCoy, with limited help from grade-D skill players, make enough plays to convince me he's not the problem. Now, I realize he made two or three idiotic throws in the second half -- and you're not going to win doing that consistently. But one of the bad throws came after he was concussed and should never have been put back in the game. And those throws have to be addressed.
But he did enough good things that I came away thinking: Use the three picks in the top 40 next April (Cleveland has its own first- and-second-round picks, plus Atlanta's first-rounder from the Julio Jones deal last April) to help McCoy, not replace him. Three plays showed a mature quarterback making good decisions:
1. On the first series of the game, using play-action, McCoy set up, looked over his options and found tight end Evan Moore down the left side on a crossing route with a step on linebacker Lawrence Timmons. The high-arcing pass settled into Moore's arms. Gain of 33.
2. Also on the first series, Josh Cribbs found a gap downfield in the left seam and McCoy made a great touch pass over cornerback Ike Taylor. Gain of 25.
3. In the third quarter, on third-and-eight, down 7-3, McCoy faced a five-man rush and moved up in the pocket. Feeling pressure, he threw the ball about five feet to the right of tight end Alex Smith, because that was the only window open to make the throw -- Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark and William Gay converged on Smith and seemed ready to pancake him.
But the throw was zipped in perfectly, Smith made a diving catch, and the Browns had a first down. Good judgment, great throw.
Of course, we wouldn't be talking about any of this if McCoy didn't make some brain-fart throws. But I believe he can be coached out of those -- it's what Bill Walsh would believe, watching him -- and I believe some of that stems from the fact that the Browns are a poor offensive team as a whole.
McCoy has holes. He also has a coach, Pat Shurmur, who can correct those, and is in an offense he's so well-suited to run. He's well-liked and respected in the locker room. If I'm Browns GM Tom Heckert, I'm looking for an offseason upgrade at wide receiver (the Browns need two), guard, running back and tight end ... before I even think about replacing the quarterback.
I'm guessing we'll now have a lot of questions about what does Peter King know. This should be fun!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,217
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,217 |
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
This is from MMQB several years ago:
Quote:
King (MMQB): Charlie Frye's better than I thought he was.
Don Banks (Snap Judgments): Tell me again how Charlie Frye plays with so much poise for a young quarterback? The Browns' starter had an interception and a fumble in the first half at San Diego, and I'm not seeing what it is that made Cleveland think he was the guy after going 2-3 in five starts late last year.
Quote:
Peter King of si.com , who writes his "Monday Morning Quarterback" article weekly stating his views of everything NFL and more said after talking with Holmgren at the NFL Combine, he is convinced that Brady Quinn will be the starter for the Browns.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Now I'm not necessarily advocating spending a 1st round pick on a QB, though if we do draft one, if it's not in the 1st, it's a waste of a pick. I'd be more inclined on picking up a veteran and letting the best man win. We have so many holes elsewhere that those picks can go a long way towards fixing our problems.
We've heard this stuff that the QB isn't the problem here for years, and every single QB that lost their job here wasn't though highly enough by the other 31 teams in the league to give them a shot. That speaks FAR more than anything Peter King has to say...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is It Too Soon to Give Up on
McCoy?..PART TWO...
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
