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Here's what I know:
For 12 years we've had NOTHING settled here. Not one stinking position group. The closest we've come is the WR's in '07 and offensive line since 2007... but, even there we've had constant question marks.
Every time we *THINK* we have something set, we're hit with injuries in that group, or players stop playing to their abilities or they just outright leave in free agency.
For once, I'd like us to address something and get it FIXED.
For 12 years, we've been in search of a QB, and for 12 years we've had the EXACT SAME arguments: no WR's, no OLine, no RB..... well, let's freaking fix THOSE and then come back to the damned QB later.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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kelly holcomb signed with Buffalo and was expected to compete with Losman for the starting gig (he started 8, losman started 8)
jeff garcia got the backup spot for Mariucci's Lions (and it looked obvious that they wanted to replace Joey - after an injury he started a few games)
bruce gradkowski was picked up off waivers for Jamarcus' expected last season (and it was)
derek anderson was given the arizona job (and then it was taken away)
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that's just the cases where the next team seemed obvious they would get starting time. there are other cases like McCown getting traded to TB and getting some time with a Garcia injury, etc.
really supports how bad our QB situation has been when the above is all we can show for how our QBs have done elsewhere (and there have been quite a few)
#gmstrong
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1st String
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anyone watch the throws he makes?
or conversly how many of our not so great wideouts drop balls like crazy?
or the fact that a QB with less mobility would have been hurt a LONG time ago?
Wake up Brows fans! you all did this with Couch, throw a young guy out there to be an instant savior, he takes a beating behind a patched up O-line and gets hurt/gun shy or whatever. Browns fans think that a QB should be taking us to the promised land and i have news for you. Even if Andrew luck were in a browns uniform this year, he would most likely be throwing MORE picks! That is if he wouldn't be hurt already.
wasting a high pick on another QB that we will hurt/wear out/ruin is fruitless. build a Defense, a running game and get a smart QB that won't screw up, and hope he doesn't get a concusion.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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i have been on the pro-Colt side of things. he has shown some glimpses of promise and he has shown improvement this year.
but, he hasn't shown enough that we shouldn't have some form of competition for him going into next year. whether it be flynn, a veteran, or a draft pick.
#gmstrong
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2nd new offense in as many years with the entire O learning it as they go - including coaches, with no offseason and absolutely zero help from his WR's and injuries plaguing the RB position and half the OL?
I'm perfectly fine giving him the reigns into next season with a full offseason to improve & learn while working with new WR's. This season was a write-off before it began, and next season is not one to have any expectations, either.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
For 12 years, we've been in search of a QB, and for 12 years we've had the EXACT SAME arguments: no WR's, no OLine, no RB..... well, let's freaking fix THOSE and then come back to the damned QB later.
You need not make another post. Because there is nothing more to say. At least I can't add anything that wouldn't take 1200 words and make less sense than that.
#gmstrong
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Ouch.  I don't give a damn what King says ..... I trust my own eyes more than I trust King ...... and my eyes tell me that McCoy is not the guy. I still say that until we get the QB right, it won't matter what we do with the rest of the team. Oh we might stagger around .500 with a great defense, and a great offense with a so-so QB ..... and we might even go a game over if we hit a really down year for the rest of the league ........ but we aren't gonna win any championships. It's time to go get the QB position right. We're drafting in the right spot to grab an impact player at the most important position on the field.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We're drafting in the right spot to grab an impact player at the most important position on the field.
Are we? Seems like both Luck and Barkley (if he comes out) will be long gone before we pick.
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I don't give a damn what King says ..... I trust my own eyes more than I trust King ...... and my eyes tell me that McCoy is not the guy.
Yet you seem to put a tremendous amount of confidence in Mary Kay Cabot when she said she thought WRs were getting open.. at least you repeated it about 200 times.
It's ok to pick and choose which "experts" and media types you want to listen to but when the only ones you pick to listen to already agree with your preconcieved notions of what is going on... well that makes you Django.. or mac in a political thread.
At the very least, the Peter King article should show some that those of us who still see something in McCoy worth keeping aren't purely homers and that some objective outsiders see the same thing...
Is Peter King right? FIIK but I have said for a while that I do not believe the FO is quite as certain that we need a new QB as a lot of fans on here seem to think they are.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
For 12 years, we've been in search of a QB, and for 12 years we've had the EXACT SAME arguments: no WR's, no OLine, no RB..... well, let's freaking fix THOSE and then come back to the damned QB later.
If for 12 years the common denominator is the QB, then maybe it's the QB.
It's like the guy that gets fired from 10 different jobs and each time the boss didn't like him. But he's the common denominator every time.
Every team in the league has injuries and the talent gap between teams is not as big as people think. But there is one position that can elevate all the other players on a team ... QB.
I'm starting to warm to the idea of another year of McCoy depending on how the draft pans out ... I don't want us to reach for a QB, and I don't want to trade any picks to move up ... but your statement only proved the exact opposite of what you were trying to prove, IMO.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Just as a fun experiment I want you (or anyone else) to do the following exercise.
Pick a number from 1-12, then a number from 1-32.
Do it three times...for example:
3, 22
6, 12
11, 7
I'll come back to the thread and tell you the reasoning behind it.
(It has to do with McCoy - not a random exercise)
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If for 12 years the common denominator is the QB, then maybe it's the QB.
The common denominator for 12 years has been change. Change at HC, change in the FO, change in the QBs, and with each new FO and HC we turned over a boat load of support players, we changed schemes on offense and defense, we changed schemes so much that the decent players we thought we had didn't fit the current scheme and had to be let go.... and if we keep changing, then expect the results to not change.
yebat' Putin
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Pete Prisco thinks that we need a QB. So does Clark Judge. Big deal. Who cares.
I also said that Mary Kay and Grossi both said that the receivers were getting open, and that Mary Kay is usually solidly in the QB camp ..... no matter who the QB is. Both writers have been solidly in the McCoy camp this year.
I cannot believe that the front office, with all of the experience they have, can look at this offense, with this QB, and say "Yep, this is the QB to win a Super Bowl with". Sorry, I just don't see it.
This is one of the most futile scoring offenses the Browns have ever had. Ever. This offense is almost as bad as the offense of our 2nd year back ... and may even wind up worst than our expansion year. The difference between expansion and now is not that we have improved our scoring ... it's that we give up fewer points.
Tim freakin' Couch threw 19 TD passes in his rookie year with a crappy expansion team. The next year went in the toilet with Spurgeon Wynn, Doug Peterson, Kevin Thompson, and Kevin Johnson all seeing time under Center. That was out all time low in scoring points over the course of a 16 game season.
We scored 161 points that year. Remember the futility?
We have scored 178 so far this year. That's 13 games. It's pathetic. We need to score 39 points in the next 3 games just to beat our level of scoring in our expansion year.
McCoy does nothing consistently well ......and frankly, not even anything even remotely consistently well. His arm is questionable at best. He throws receivers into concussions. He'll have one drive a game where he looks competent, then disappear from there on.
In our last 8 games .... half a season worth ..... we have scored 6, 10, 12, 12, 14, 20, 10, and 3 points. That's 84 points in 8 games. That stinks worse than expansion level. That is entirely unacceptable in my eyes. Maybe other people see things differently .... but I don't see a team close to being competent offensively. I also do not see a QB close to being competent.
We need mass replacement of players on offense if we want to get out of the crap hole we're in ...... and it starts with the QB who brings very little, if anything at all, to the table.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not at all, that's just because of the perspective you chose to read it with. You came with a preconceived notion and tilted what I wrote to fit your view.
I'll play your game, however: Read it again - the exact words that I wrote; the entire post.
The common denominator is No WR's, No OLine and no RB's. There has ALWAYS been HUGE talent holes on this team that NEVER get satisfactorily addressed.
When we do address things, then players get hurt or move on as free agents... or we fire the entire coaching staff and those players don't fit the vision of the new staff, so they get released.
LeCharles Bentley, Jureviscious, Edwards, Winslow, The Four Deuces, Jeff Faine, Vickers etc, etc... these are all examples of how we've wasted time, effort and resources correcting things over and over and over again and NEVER have gained any ground. Every time we've made progress in stabilizing a position group, that stability has been immediately trashed.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Every time we've made progress in stabilizing a position group, that stability has been immediately trashed.
Bingo
#gmstrong
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jc General reply
The 31st QB in yds/PA and bottom 3rd in any other stat without significant improvement during the season isn't "stabilizing"....it's bad
You guys are a funny bunch..you think by being supposedly "fair" it makes your opinion more valid or "objective"...it's still just that...an opinion....we all don't know for sure....that's a common problem with inductive reasoning
You want to "give him more time, with better WRs and a new RT"....WE GET IT !!...what's there to discuss anymore? Nobody will convince anyone on that matter by now
You have been clear what you'd do and I have been totally clear what I would do: draft a 1st round QB (or Weeden in the 2nd) and sign a stop gap FA (preferably Campbell)....if father McCoy doesn't whine about the drafting of another QB, you keep McCoy instead of a FA and give him 2012....he won't be much worse than most FA QB thus you give him another last shot as a lame duck QB....I think that would be unfair to him and not very clever with the fans (AGAIN 2 camps will form), thus I would trade McCoy for whatever and sign and draft a QB
Nobody will change my mind but McCoy with MUCH better play and nothing will change yours (only MUCH wprse play, both not very probable)...yes, I've seen enough and simply think his ceiling isn't worth waiting for/wasting other NFL games beyond those last 3 this season
Your opinions aren't worth more or more objective or whatever....that's just self rigtheous BS
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Not at all, that's just because of the perspective you chose to read it with. You came with a preconceived notion and tilted what I wrote to fit your view.
How could I have a preconceived notion of a post I had never read before you wrote it? I do believe in the common denominator theory, however. And that's what your post made me think of AS I was reading it.
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I'll play your game, however: Read it again - the exact words that I wrote; the entire post.
The common denominator is No WR's, No OLine and no RB's. There has ALWAYS been HUGE talent holes on this team that NEVER get satisfactorily addressed.
It's not a game, and I did read every word of your post. Just because you said the WR, OL, and RB were common denominators doesn't make it so. That is your interpretation of what has gone on.
We have had an above average OL since '07 - an OL you can win with in this league. The RBs have been average and WRs leave a lot to be desired ... I will grant you that. But the QB hasn't done them any favors, IMO.
Just a hypothetical. How do you think WRs like MoMass and Little would be on the Steelers? My opinion is they would be playing well, much better than they are playing here. And I don't think all that highly of MoMass. But to think that the talent differential is that much between our team and others I believe is naive.
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When we do address things, then players get hurt or move on as free agents... or we fire the entire coaching staff and those players don't fit the vision of the new staff, so they get released.
LeCharles Bentley, Jureviscious, Edwards, Winslow, The Four Deuces, Jeff Faine, Vickers etc, etc... these are all examples of how we've wasted time, effort and resources correcting things over and over and over again and NEVER have gained any ground. Every time we've made progress in stabilizing a position group, that stability has been immediately trashed.
I agree that all of this is a problem. But I don't believe it means you can't evaluate the QB's play.
It sounds like you are in the camp that believes the players around the QB make the QB better. I'm in the opposite camp.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It sounds like you are in the camp that believes the players around the QB make the QB better. I'm in the opposite camp.
I'm in both camps - nothing happens in a vacuum and it is all completely interrelated... but we've done the 'change the QB' thing like 14 times now and nothing has changed; so I'm advocating that the guy we have is good enough to get by with for now at least and let's focus on fixing the other junk for once.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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1. On the first series of the game, using play-action, McCoy set up, looked over his options and found tight end Evan Moore down the left side on a crossing route with a step on linebacker Lawrence Timmons. The high-arcing pass settled into Moore's arms. Gain of 33.
This throw was off target as evidenced by Moore making a great leaping catch and still stumbling to the ground. An on-target throw and who knows how far he runs with this one.
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2. Also on the first series, Josh Cribbs found a gap downfield in the left seam and McCoy made a great touch pass over cornerback Ike Taylor. Gain of 25.
This throw was late and should have been a TD.
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3. In the third quarter, on third-and-eight, down 7-3, McCoy faced a five-man rush and moved up in the pocket. Feeling pressure, he threw the ball about five feet to the right of tight end Alex Smith, because that was the only window open to make the throw -- Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark and William Gay converged on Smith and seemed ready to pancake him.
But the throw was zipped in perfectly, Smith made a diving catch, and the Browns had a first down. Good judgment, great throw.
This throw was terrific.
Peter King also thinks the hit Harrison put on McCoy was "gray area"... as in maybe it wasn't illegal.
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I'm in the "Colt's not the guy" camp.....but I have no problem with keeping him another year and fixing other holes. What I don't want is to waste a first round draft pick on somebody not named Luck or Barkley, or waste multiple first round picks on any qb at this point.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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i have been on the pro-Colt side of things. he has shown some glimpses of promise and he has shown improvement this year.
but, he hasn't shown enough that we shouldn't have some form of competition for him going into next year. whether it be flynn, a veteran, or a draft pick.
Yes, I vote for Flynn. The pack can't keep him. Let McCoy and him fight it out. And use those three top 40 picks on some upgrades other then QB.
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Flynn is probably going to demand a sizable contract ..... and he has done absolutely nothing in the NFL. (and very little in college either)
What has he done that makes you confident that he can be a starter in the NFL?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Flynn seems like a decent choice. He SEEMS competent enough to beat out Colt, but not a world-beater. Perhaps he would be someone that's better to keep the seat warm before we bring in our 1st round QB.
I've said it before, others have said it before, but I'll say it again. This teams is not ready for their QB of the future to play meaningful snaps. It doesn't matter who that QB is, we need to rush the development of all/most other positions before we can expect decent offensive production.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Why pick up another backup quality QB? (and overpay for him to boot)
Draft the future in the 1st round, plug him in, and let him grow.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I've said it before, others have said it before, but I'll say it again. This teams is not ready for their QB of the future to play meaningful snaps. It doesn't matter who that QB is, we need to rush the development of all/most other positions before we can expect decent offensive production.
I believe thats a flawed way of thinking, but thats MY Opinion...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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draft who in the 1st round and do you spend both of our picks to get him? I'd rather get an FA QB and keep our picks, hopefully getting two quality starters that will last us for years to come.
#GMSTRONG
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I am of the opinion that you really don't know what you have until you have your QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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and you don't know even then. it's a serious crap shoot.
#GMSTRONG
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We have had an above average OL since '07 - an OL you can win with in this league
On the left side yes, but not on the right side. Until we get a good RT our offense will suffer. we have to leave a tight end or RB to help out our RT on almost every single play leaving one less guy to pick up a blitz or get out into the pattern, and other teams know this.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Why pick up another backup quality QB? (and overpay for him to boot)
Draft the future in the 1st round, plug him in, and let him grow.
Holmgren has done pretty well doing that. If he thought Flynn was the guy Id be ok with it.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Quote:
Quote:
Why pick up another backup quality QB? (and overpay for him to boot)
Draft the future in the 1st round, plug him in, and let him grow.
Holmgren has done pretty well doing that. If he thought Flynn was the guy Id be ok with it.
Delhomme, Jake
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why pick up another backup quality QB? (and overpay for him to boot)
Draft the future in the 1st round, plug him in, and let him grow.
Holmgren has done pretty well doing that. If he thought Flynn was the guy Id be ok with it.
Delhomme, Jake
Gap, Stop
#GMSTRONG
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I never understood getting Seneca, and Jake.
Bring in Seneca, a guy who knows the system already, and start him...
Oh wait, you mean theres a bunch of articles about Wildcat packages we can write?
Well I guess we can bring in someone else too...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Absent the crowd that wants to lose for a better spot in the draft, I'm all for giving Wallace his chance. Couldn't be worse at this point.
As far as Jake, he was, if nothing else a really good mentor for Colt. Colt was better with Jake than without him.
#GMSTRONG
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Bringng in Seneca means they've completely given up on Colt.
I don't think they want to send that message even if they have.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Bringng in Seneca means they've completely given up on Colt.
I don't think they want to send that message even if they have.
I agree. It serves no purpose to make any changes at this point, and I am not even saying they should.
Do the evaluation at seasons end, then draft or sign FA accordingly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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$14m stop gap. 
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Bringng in Seneca means they've completely given up on Colt.
I don't think they want to send that message even if they have.
Bringing in Seneca means that Colt is out with a concussion.
It might also mean that the Browns medical staff is facing criminal negligence charges.
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I almost hope that we do start Wallace this weekend. I am really curious to see if the offense looks different with the career backup under Center.
Yes ..... I hope we do start Wallace.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
Quote:
I almost hope that we do start Wallace this weekend. I am really curious to see if the offense looks different with the career backup under Center.
Yes ..... I hope we do start Wallace.
This...just to see. Imagine the controversy if he plays well.
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