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But Savage seems at least publicly,to have the same determination to re-vamp this OL as he did to upgrade our LB'ing corp last year
Pit, I hear what Peen is trying to say, and that's that the two positions aren't similar and the need for Bodies isn't the same between OL and LBs.. Makes sense.
But I also understand your thinking.. you are saying that Savage seems to be showing the same determination to fix the Oline this year that he demonstated in attacking the need for LB's last year,, I agree with the apparent detemination thing,,, and MAN I hope you are right about that..
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Quote:
Quote:
But Savage seems at least publicly,to have the same determination to re-vamp this OL as he did to upgrade our LB'ing corp last year
Pit, I hear what Peen is trying to say, and that's that the two positions aren't similar and the need for Bodies isn't the same between OL and LBs.. Makes sense.
But I also understand your thinking.. you are saying that Savage seems to be showing the same determination to fix the Oline this year that he demonstated in attacking the need for LB's last year,, I agree with the apparent detemination thing,,, and MAN I hope you are right about that..
the difference though is LB's can be playmakers.. its rare that an offensive linemen makes a big play.. what recover a fumble?? lol.. or str8 drill a LB on the run.. a lot of linemen can do that.. not just Joe Thomas..
thats why I want Adrian Peterson... snagging him will be addressing the o-line.. cuz he and lewis will make them better.
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Man o man , the thought of Lewis running behind that line is exciting. However, IF Detroit takes JT I could see us taking AP. If Chud has any imput into the equation remember he is coming from a system that had one great RB and another RB that wasn't too shabby either. Doesn't Detroit need a WR? 
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Well,I think the jury is still out untill the FA signing period is over. But I am rather confused about those who still believe we will pick AP. I mean I try to look at trends and patterns from people in their past. It tends to help me understand the ramifications of what the future may hold.
And "so far" I have NOT seen Savage address a "single position" in the FA market and then "double up" by addressing that same position high in the draft in the same season. Not that I always agree with that,just reporting what I've seen.
ie......first day picks. When he drafted Frye,did he get a FA veteran to help mentor him in the FA market? No. And Shaffer? Did he really intend for Shaffer to be a long term solution at LT or a temprary fix at the position? But obviously he had no intentions of addressing it in the FA market and the draft or McNeill would have been a steal in round 2 last year.
So IMO,I can't see Savage doing something he's "never done before". You can't fix everything in one off-season. So you fill obvious voids in the FA market for the short term,then address other needs via the draft for the long haul while addressing "as many areas as possible" in one off-season.
It's been his M.O. all along. And for the life of me I can't see why people can't take an objective look at that and see that pattern. Unless some people feel Savage will simply abandone everything he's done in his career thus far and follow a different path? I just don't see it.
At this juncture.as it stands at this moment,I see either BQ or JT as our first round targets. I can't see him doubling up at the RB position in one off-season with all of our needs at this time. If somebody can show me a precident to the contrary since he's been here,I might be far more open to the possibility of Savage drafting AP,but I haven't seen any signs from his short hisrtory here that this is the case.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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J/C
Joe Thomas baby!
woooohooooo
Maybe we can finally run the ball!!!
WOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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the difference though is LB's can be playmakers.. its rare that an offensive linemen makes a big play.. what recover a fumble?? lol.. or str8 drill a LB on the run.. a lot of linemen can do that.. not just Joe Thomas..
thats why I want Adrian Peterson... snagging him will be addressing the o-line.. cuz he and lewis will make them better.
You want a RB to HAVE a place TO run? Do you want our QB to HAVE a pocket? And you make it sound like "insert body here".
We've been doing that since 99 Bud. Where did that get us? 4-12. Look at Denver in the 90"s. Are you telling me they were three deep at RB's who were 1000 yard rushers? Do you even remember when they had so many RB injuries that they had to play their THIRD STRINGER and even HE was getting over 100 yards per game?
Why was that? Because your glamour boys need talent in front of them so they can do their jobs. If you don't get it,you just don't get it. But AP ain't crap with nowhere to run. BQ is nothing withoput protection. Now you keep harping about drafting a kid with nowhere to run. I have PROOF that you don't need a stud with a good OL. I've seen a lot of "studs" go belly up because they HAVE nowhere to run.
I want to do it right for a change,you don't. Hopefully the people in charge do it right this time too.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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with the RB spot though you can have more than one good back.. with the intentions of splitting carries.. its happening more and more in this league.. Maroney/Dillon (past) Fred Taylor/ Drew-Jones Parker/ Bettis (past) and it works.. two RB's splitting carries have done all these teams justice.. a guy like Peterson and Lewis will definitely do justice for the Browns, who had no running threat at all in 06. Plus.. running the ball will: lead to less sacks.. lead to less INTs.. (i hope) lead to more rushing TD's... lead to more rushing yards per game... lead to a high TD percentage in the red zone... all that with just drafting one player.. u gotta love it 
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We've got a talented kid who looked good last year with what carries he had. Or don't you believe in trying to "develop players"? Do you really think Savage will desert his draft choices who showed some promise last year? I certainly don't. That's not how you build a team.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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In case you missed it? We have been trying to run the ball without a good line. Football 101 tells you that doesn't work. Basic,fundamental football. It's elementary my dear Watson! I'm quite sure Savage knows the basics. NO RB can fix that OL. Not even AP. And I notice you completly ignored trying to show where Savage EVER doubled up on a single skill position in one off season in both the FA market and the draft. Of course you did.
Last edited by PitDAWG; 03/09/07 09:52 AM.
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We've got a talented kid who looked good last year with what carries he had. Or don't you believe in trying to "develop players"? Do you really think Savage will desert his draft choices who showed some promise last year? I certainly don't. That's not how you build a team.
Who on earth are you referring to here? Wright??? Harrison???
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And Shaffer? Did he really intend for Shaffer to be a long term solution at LT or a temprary fix at the position? But obviously he had no intentions of addressing it in the FA market and the draft or McNeill would have been a steal in round 2 last year.
This is debatable Pit...
7 year deal...Shaffer
1 year deal...Lewis
IMO...We'd be DUMB to not take Peterson just because we signed an aging back to a ONE YEAR...
With Droughns gone we'd be setting ourselves up to have to go FA again next year for a Back...Or draft one and start a Rook...
Go Browns!!!
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Look at Denver in the 90"s. Are you telling me they were three deep at RB's who were 1000 yard rushers? Do you even remember when they had so many RB injuries that they had to play their THIRD STRINGER and even HE was getting over 100 yards per game?
Yea, But they DIDN"T WIN THE SUPERBOWL until they got that GAME-CHANGING RB in Tyrell Davis.
And I know your next piont-TD wasn't drafted until the 6th round.
Anyone can find a diamond in the rough every now and then, but the fact is that MOST players that become quality NFL players are drafted on the 1st day. Yes, you do find hidden gems, AT EVERY POSITION, but those are the exception, not the rule.
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In case you missed it? We have been trying to run the ball without a good line. Football 101 tells you that doesn't work. Basic,fundamental football. It's elementary my dear Watson!
I'm quite sure Savage knows the basics. NO RB can fix that OL. Not even AP.
And I notice you completly ignored trying to show where Savage EVER doubled up on a single skill position in one off season in both the FA market and the draft. Of course you did.
lol..
i thought i addressed it with the mentioning of the HB's splitting carries.. its becoming a trend.. thats why he "doubles" up this year..
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I'm talking about Harrison. A 199lb. RB does need holes to run through. He isn't going to "outpower anyone" or break a ton of tackles. Give him some holes and he'll produce. Nice change of pace scat back type with potential and pretty good hands from a recieving point of view.
There is potential there. You think we'll build the OL where we CAN make some holes for this kid and just abandone him after one season? I sure don't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You're simply saying he's going to do something he's "never done before". He has young talent he's trying to develop. If he invests in the FA market and a first round pick at the same single position,it will be a first. Good luck to you on that. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And "so far" I have NOT seen Savage address a "single position" in the FA market and then "double up" by addressing that same position high in the draft in the same season.
McGinist and Wimbley ?
Jurevicius and Wilson ?
Dilfer and Fyre ?
Russell and Pool ?
All high profile FA'gents and all first day picks.
Yea, you're right, he has never done that before...... 
Last edited by ncdawg; 03/09/07 10:13 AM.
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Harrison better learn to block then, if that is the situation that unfolds (doubtfull)
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There's four LB positions on the field at one time. Two ILB's,two OLB's. He aquired three LB's. There's one RB on the field at all times.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree pitt, we need to let Jerome Harrison have a shot.
He deserves that much, he has been quite, worked hard (from what I have seen and read) if he can improve his blocking skills, I really, really want to see what he can do.
JMO
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Wilson was a third round pick. But there again,how many WR's play at the same time? One? You see,there are usually three or four WR's on the field at the same time. It's only one position,but it takes multiple players on the field similtaniously to fill the position. Much like the LB position. But thanks for playing! You get the home version of "Draft Guru" as a concelation prize though!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It's either Thomas or Peterson..
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Pit, I understand were you are coming from, all I am trying to piont out is that Jamal Lewis's signing DOES NOT mean we won't go after Peterson (if we release/trade Droughns as expected).
A first day pick, wether it's the 3rd round or the 1st, is expected to be a significant contributer on your team. Wilson, Pool, Frye, ALL fall into that catagory.
Do I still want AD, yea, Will I be upset with Thomas, NOT AT ALL.
But we still need a GAME-CHANGING RB, and Jamal is not that anymore.
IMO.
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And I can't say we "won't go" with AP. I also think he's a VERY talented RB. His talent isn't a question in my book. Do his injuries prohibit him from being drafted? I don't really think so in and of themselves.
But I try to look at indicators. When you combine the injuries,running style,the signing of Lewis,the extansion of Wrights contract,the number of holes and positions that need to be filled?
When I look at those factors bundled together,the odds simply don't favor that AP is the direction we're going. I wouldn't be "mad" if we went AP. I do think the kid has talent. I'm just looking at many underlying factors that I believe are considered into making a #3 overall pick and find AP an unlikely choice right now.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Fair enough,
my honest opinion ?
It's either Thomas or Quinn (whom I don't really want), IF we stay at 3.
But, I also beleive there is a STRONG possibility that this is the year we trade down, THEN pick up Peterson, along with getting an EXTRA first day pick to use on one of the lines.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
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clicking.
My prediction is that we will NOT draft Peterson now. We have our feature back in Jamal, the Adrian pimpers will have to deal with it.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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IF we stay at 3.
But, I also beleive there is a STRONG possibility that this is the year we trade down, THEN pick up Peterson, along with getting an EXTRA first day pick to use on one of the lines.
Well,I must admit that this is a talent filled draft that some teams will most likely try to move up in. I could easily see a few teams that we may work with to make this a distinct possibility. And Peterson +1 is something I could welcome with open arms.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm talking about Harrison. A 199lb. RB does need holes to run through. He isn't going to "outpower anyone" or break a ton of tackles. Give him some holes and he'll produce. Nice change of pace scat back type with potential and pretty good hands from a recieving point of view.
There is potential there. You think we'll build the OL where we CAN make some holes for this kid and just abandone him after one season? I sure don't.
There's a reason why Harrison was a late round pick and spent most of the year on the practice squad. As much as he would've been a nice compliment to Droughns in terms of size and speed, he was so miserable as a blocker that we simply couldn't afford to have him on the field in third down situations. Until he learns to block, Harrison will never play. I, for one, would love to see him develop, but as of right now, he's nothing more than a practice squad player or a third stringer at best.
We're not giving up on him by any means, but it would also be foolish to include him in our plans for next year.
We're... we're good?
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If Thomas/Quinn are off the board then I hope we do the right thing..and SHOULD it be a trade down Opie better rake some GM over the coals to get a sweet deal..
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We're not giving up on him by any means, but it would also be foolish to include him in our plans for next year.
As it would for Peterson also, because either A) we won't draft him or B) He will be hurt by week 3
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There's a reason why Harrison was a late round pick and spent most of the year on the practice squad. As much as he would've been a nice compliment to Droughns in terms of size and speed, he was so miserable as a blocker that we simply couldn't afford to have him on the field in third down situations. Until he learns to block, Harrison will never play. I, for one, would love to see him develop, but as of right now, he's nothing more than a practice squad player or a third stringer at best.
We're not giving up on him by any means, but it would also be foolish to include him in our plans for next year.
Well once our O-line is solid....the backs won't have to block as much, not nearly.
Chips, and cut blocks here and there, but not blocking on every pass play like the browns have been doing.
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This article mentions Lewis and our o-line (with a comment I found somewhat humorous...) Best RB Pickups (SI.com) Quote:
it's hard to see how his production will improve in Cleveland, whose offensive line hasn't exactly been mistaken for the great wall of China of late.
I personally like this pickup and his overall attitude of his move to Cleveland. All of this waiting for the draft is driving me nuts. 
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If Thomas/Quinn are off the board then I hope we do the right thing..and SHOULD it be a trade down Opie better rake some GM over the coals to get a sweet deal..
Great plan, and I'm all for it. But it takes two to tango. To trade down we'd need someone who has some serious jones about moving up. Two wanting it would be better.
Look at last year, all we got was a 6th to switch one place.
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This year we are in a good position as the demand for the first 3-5 players will drive the mkt.
If a trade down is what we really want, it will happen. We won't find a shortage of good offers.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree. The offers will be there. I just hope that if we do take an offer for #3 that it's because we're blown away by it. Because whoever we can/will take at #3 will be one heckuva player.
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I listened to his phone call presser, and he said "I would be surprised because they can spend the money somewhere else"
When speaking about Adrian Peterson, and the prospects of drafting him.
that says it all to me, Quinn or Thomas.
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Just clicking to add this article, dated 3-9-2007...
Jamal Lewis likes Browns’ future
By MIKE McLAIN Tribune Chronicle
BEREA — Jamal Lewis obviously knows something that the general public doesn’t know about the Cleveland Browns.
In making his decision to sign a one-year, $3.5 million contract with the Browns Wednesday, the former Baltimore Ravens running back banked on the belief that better times are around the corner for the struggling franchise. In particular, Lewis likes the fact that moves are being made to highlight the ground game.
‘‘The first question I asked was how is the offensive line?’’ Lewis said during a conference call Thursday from his home in Georgia. ‘‘They made a good addition (in guard Eric Steinbach), and they’re looking to make more moves. It looks like they’re committed to running the football.
‘‘That’s what I was looking for the last three or four years in Baltimore, but no moves were made there. That was one of my main concerns (about the Ravens). Talking to (general manager) Phil Savage and the offensive coaches, it looks like they’re making the moves to put things together.’’
Lewis wasn’t comfortable with the Ravens’ desire to become more of a passing team with quarterback Steve McNair. When Lewis was released recently, he didn’t look back. Cleveland turned out to be his first, and only, stop.
‘‘Baltimore is where I made my mark, but life goes on,’’ he said. ‘‘Phil Savage knows what I’m capable of doing. I’m happy he came and got me out of the situation and put me in a better one.’’
Lewis, who rushed for 2,006 yards in 2003 and has surpassed the 1,000-yard mark five out of the six seasons in which he’s played, has seen a reduction in his production in recent years. After his big 2003 season, he rushed for 1,006 yards in 2004, 906 in 2005 and 1,132 last season. He played most of last year with bone spurs in his foot.
Lewis, 5-foot-11 and 245 pounds, underwent surgery to remove the spurs after the season ended. He isn’t 100 percent at this time, but he promises fans that his speed is still good enough to get the job done. He came out of the University of Tennessee in 2000 with sub-4.4 times in the 40.
‘‘Right now because of scar tissue my 40 wouldn’t be the best,’’ he said. ‘‘If had to run a 40 for you, I’d be in the high 4.3s or low 4.4s, if that’s what it’s about. Running the 40 is like a track meet. They don’t run the 40 on the field. I still have breakaway speed and can hit holes like I need to do. I’m training hard so when I hit holes I can make the big runs.’’
Lewis is aware that the Browns might use the third overall draft pick on University of Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson. He doesn’t seem to mind the possibility of seeing a talent like Peterson join the backfield mix.
‘‘I wouldn’t care as long as I have the opportunity to compete,’’ he said.
It’s ironic that Lewis decided to sign with the Browns. In 2003 he set the NFL single-game record for rushing with 295 yards. Later that season he rushed for another 205 yards against the Browns.
‘‘The thing about that day was that everything was going right and I was hot,’’ he said. ‘‘The offensive line was clicking, I was clicking and the receivers were blocking down the field. I couldn’t have gotten those yards if the guys weren’t blocking down the field.’’
The character issue is sure to arise when Lewis sets up shop in Cleveland. He spent time in jail and in a halfway house in 2005 after pleading guilty to using a cell phone to make a drug purchase.
‘‘That has nothing to do with my career,’’ he said. ‘‘People prejudge you because they don’t know you. I’m quiet and humble, and I do my job. I got caught up in something. I did what I had to do to let that go.’’
The one-year deal gives Lewis a chance to prove he can still be a standout, while possibly increasing his financial value to a team. He would have no problem re-signing with the Browns next year.
‘‘If I do the things I know I can and Phil Savage knows I can do, one day I might retire a Brown,’’ he said.
mmclain@tribune-chronicle.com
Section: Sports Posted: 3/9/2007
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
‘‘The first question I asked was how is the offensive line?’’ Lewis said during a conference call Thursday from his home in Georgia. ‘‘They made a good addition (in guard Eric Steinbach), and they’re looking to make more moves. It looks like they’re committed to running the football.
being rebuilt again..You ought to know that Lewis..we certainly have known..
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
I listened to his phone call presser, and he said "I would be surprised because they can spend the money somewhere else"
When speaking about Adrian Peterson, and the prospects of drafting him.
that says it all to me, Quinn or Thomas.
Again, you can't listen to what Jamal Lewis is saying... he's going to speak in his best interest (which happens to include incredible bias). Look at the Savage quotes I posted in the thread. THOSE are the ones that truly matter, as Savage is looking out for the best interests of the team, not himself.
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
I look at it this way. Lewis is only 27 years old. If he shows something, perhaps we'll re-sign him after the season. I like this signing because it helps keep our draft options open.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Again, you can't listen to what Jamal Lewis is saying... Sure you listen to it..it's whether U buy it or not..and there is [probably something something it ..I think Opie will get another OG in FA.. Look at the Savage quotes I posted in the thread. THOSE are the ones that truly matter, Oh but we should take those quotes literally..  whatever U posted, I didn't look for it. But what makes you feel like he's not smokescreening his pick? He has to create doubt from anyone picking as to who is the target.. Right now he has 4 targets lined up..two will be available, two won't.. He has to be able to move after the first two teams make their moves..
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lewis confident he can lead
running attack - mentions Peterson
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