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...OC upstairs calls the play to Shurmur, who relays to the QB...problem solved.
mac... what you're missing here is that method gives the HC a job that doesn't take an HC to do. Anyone can relay the calls to the QB, the quarterbacks coach as has been mentioned or even the backup QB.
If you're trying to relieve the HC of some of his responsibilities so he can be a better HC then why saddle him with a duty that is empty and valueless?
dd...I have not missed a thing...I presented a solution that requires the HC an option...to relay the plays to the QB or not.
What some see as the impossible...I see as possible...
If Holmgren says, this is the way it's going to work Shurm...what is Shurm going to do?
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If nothing else at least he's a welcome change of character and honesty at HC for the Browns...I really like the guy but if he's a good HC remains to be seen
He doesn't get enough praise from fans for the development of most of our young players...the Colt regression somehow has made people blind for it...mayb with Colt it's the player, not the coach...esp if you look at how well the other young players have developed
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Shurmur just had a press conference and said that they will hire an offensive coordinator and that, "I want to get the best guy I can and if he's outstanding at calling plays, hey I want to win games."
I didn't catch the Shurmur's presser...
hhhmmmm...looks like Shurmur is suddenly more flexible on the issue of calling plays...wonder who convinced him?
Shurmur is not running the franchise...Holmgren is.
Anyone thinking Holmgren was going to back down on the issue of Shurmur's play calling...well, you are obviously wrong.
I never said much about it during the season, but Shurmur's play calling was a lot of the problem with this offense. It had to be hard for Holmgren to watch, knowing Shurm was showing that he was not ready to take on both tasks, HC and OC.
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j/c
Chilly and Callahan mentioned in this thread already, but here is my top3 candidates for the job (assuming Sherman wants to remain a college HC).
Tom Clements - he is my first pick. He was able to mold Rodgers (given credit for changing his release and tutoring him in the WCO) along with also nurturing Matt Flynn. Also, hiring Clements could put us in the front for Flynn when he hits the FA market. Win/win.
Childress - he was a bust as a HC, but could be a co-ordinator only guy. Would need to look in his history to see if it was him or Reid calling the plays.
Bill Callahan - another former HC who struggled, but was the OC for Gruden on the Raiders before he left for TB and he has been a very good OL coach for the Jets. If the Jets keep Schott, then Callahan may listen to a promotion here.
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...OC upstairs calls the play to Shurmur, who relays to the QB...problem solved.
mac... what you're missing here is that method gives the HC a job that doesn't take an HC to do. Anyone can relay the calls to the QB, the quarterbacks coach as has been mentioned or even the backup QB.
If you're trying to relieve the HC of some of his responsibilities so he can be a better HC then why saddle him with a duty that is empty and valueless?
dd...I have not missed a thing...I presented a solution that requires the HC an option...to relay the plays to the QB or not.
What some see as the impossible...I see as possible...
If Holmgren says, this is the way it's going to work Shurm...what is Shurm going to do?
I guess that's possible, but entirely too complicated and ridiculously too elaborate. Why would the HC relay the plays to the QB? That's an extra step that is flat out not needed.
you had a good run Hank.
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Shurmur just had a press conference and said that they will hire an offensive coordinator and that, "I want to get the best guy I can and if he's outstanding at calling plays, hey I want to win games."
thx for posting that. 
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Shurmur just had a press conference and said that they will hire an offensive coordinator and that, "I want to get the best guy I can and if he's outstanding at calling plays, hey I want to win games."
LOL I knew that would happen.. Good for Shurmur..
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Childress - he was a bust as a HC, but could be a co-ordinator only guy. Would need to look in his history to see if it was him or Reid calling the plays.
One of MY GUYS that I listen to @ 3pm on 97.1 The Fan, here in C-Bus, is a huge Vikings fan. Just finished saying Browns should start drinking heavily at just the thought of Chilly coming to town.
I thought he was just being a bitter Viking fan, but he then said that the guy never called plays in Philly and then reminded us that he had to remove himself of playcalling duties in Minni because things got so bad . . . Grain of salt . . .
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j/c
ok, let's think about who we might hire. start with what teams run the WCO and look to see what guys have spent the majority of their career in WCO systems but are not incredibly old (I put my cutoff at early 50s).
Packers - Tom Clements QB coach is my favorite candidate.
Saints - Pete Carmichael (OC) coached for the Browns in 2000 + he doesn't call plays in NO; so we could conceivably offer that to him to get him. Aaron Kromer (OL) is an Ohio guy who has spent his career in the WCO. Joe Lombardi (QB-coach) has familial ties to a guy who isn't exactly pro-Browns when he writes. But, another Ohio tied guy who has been WCO his career.
Eagles - David Culley (WR), Tom Melvin (TE), Ted Williams (RB)
Vikings - we tried to hire Musgrave as OC last year and Minny got him. Only other WCO-career guy is George Stewart their WR-coach.
Bengals - James Urban (WR)
Buccaneers (just fired their staff) - Greg Olson (OC - no thanks)
other WCO-variants:
Falcons - no obvious candidates.
Jets: Callahan - OL Coach Jets - former HC/OC Raiders and HC Nebraska
Redskins (always considered Shanahan's system to be much different than standard WCO): no obvious candidates.
Texans (Shanny's system via Kubiak): John Benton (OL), Chick Harris (RB), Greg Knapp (QB)
From this list (and adding Chilly), I would order my favorites as below:
1. Clements
2. Carmichael - doubt we could pry him though
3. Callahan
4. George Stewart
5. Kromer
6. Benton
7. David Culley
8. Knapp
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that is what I had wanted to look up (if he called plays in Philly). if not, I know he struggled with it in Minny. so, that would cross him off the list, which is what I did.
thanks.
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Packers QB coach sounds like the best of everything...please?! throw money at that man
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Didn't notice if this article was posted http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82..._headline_stack Quote:
Browns' Shurmur mentions Childress as OC candidateAssociated Press
Published: Jan. 3, 2012 at 03:40 p.m. Updated: Jan. 3, 2012 at 04:26 p.m. Cleveland Browns coach Pat Shurmur says quarterback Colt McCoy improved this season but would not commit to him as his starter for 2012.
Shurmur likes the development McCoy showed in his first full season as a starter and feels the 25-year-old will continue to get better.
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"As we go forward with Colt, I feel like he's done some really good things," Shurmur said Tuesday at his season-ending news conference. "Get him back healthy, get him in an offseason where he has a chance to develop. ... I expect Colt will improve, just as I expect (backup quarterback) Seneca (Wallace) will improve and whoever the quarterbacks are here. That can be said for all positions.
"The best quarterback will play when we start the season."
McCoy went 4-9 as a starter before missing his final three games with a concussion.
Shurmur would not discuss the Browns' offseason plans or shed light on if they would use the No. 4 overall pick on a quarterback.
Following up on comments team president Mike Holmgren made in October, Shurmur said he intends to hire an offensive coordinator. Shurmur served both roles of coach and coordinator this season.
Former Minnesota coach Brad Childress could be a candidate for the job. Shurmur said he knows Childress "very well," having worked with him in the past. Shurmur said he's keeping his list of candidates private.
Shurmur did not rule out the possibility of forfeiting his play-calling duties.
"It's important that I get the best coordinator I can for us," Shurmur said. "I think that's one of the details that'll get worked out as we go through the process. I want to get the best guy I can. And if he's outstanding at calling plays, listen, I want to win games, and so I'm gonna get the guys in there that are gonna help us do that."
As for Peyton Hillis, who had a drama-filled second season with the Browns, Shurmur said he had a "great conversation" with the running back Monday. Shurmur would not speculate if the Browns would re-sign Hillis, who is a free agent.
Hillis rushed for 1,177 yards in 2010 but missed six games this season with injuries.
Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press
Completely non committal towards either QB or any possible drafted QB.. which I guess is exactly as he should be at this point in the year.
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hhhmmmm...looks like Shurmur is suddenly more flexible on the issue of calling plays...wonder who convinced him?
Shurmur is not running the franchise...Holmgren is.
Anyone thinking Holmgren was going to back down on the issue of Shurmur's play calling...well, you are obviously wrong.
You make it sound like there is this great turmoil between Holmgren and Shurmur and Holmgren is forcing Shurmur to hire an OC. Funny how months ago in the radio interview Holmgren talked about their plan was to hire an OC during the offseason and it would be up to Shurmur if he wanted to relinquish playcalling duties.
Holmgren talked about how when he was coaching, he called his own plays and enjoyed doing so and suspected shurmur felt the same way.
So there is no grand conspiracy. There is no turmoil at the top. The only thing that is happening is what they said was going to happen. BTW shurmur said he would give up playcalling duties if it meant getting the right guy but they may even promote from within.
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Tom Clements - he is my first pick. He was able to mold Rodgers (given credit for changing his release and tutoring him in the WCO) along with also nurturing Matt Flynn. Also, hiring Clements could put us in the front for Flynn when he hits the FA market. Win/win.
nolo...the biggest problem with Clements is his lack of experience as a play caller. I believe he has two years as an OC in the NFL and I doubt the Browns are willing to take a chance of not getting this choice right, with an experienced hire.
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One thing I'd like the next OC to take out of the playbook is:
The 6 step 45 degree sprint out back foot throw to a receiver running laterally or back toward the line of scrimmage.
Wallace is a star at that play but still I'd leave that out of the playbook in 2012.
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Tom Clements - he is my first pick. He was able to mold Rodgers (given credit for changing his release and tutoring him in the WCO) along with also nurturing Matt Flynn. Also, hiring Clements could put us in the front for Flynn when he hits the FA market. Win/win.
nolo...the biggest problem with Clements is his lack of experience as a play caller. I believe he has two years as an OC in the NFL and I doubt the Browns are willing to take a chance of not getting this choice right, with an experienced hire.
Find me a better choice then. Childress didn't call plays in Philly and struggled with it in Minny. Sherman looks to be a HC candidate more than an OC candidate. Carmichael doesn't fit your description either since he doesn't have play-calling in NO.
What WCO coach is out there that has a ton of play-calling experience, was hugely successful at it, and doesn't have a job as an OC, HC, or a cushy media job (Mooch & Gruden)?
the only argument I could see being made is Callahan and I don't see him as a complete slam-dunk (though I do have him 3rd on my list)
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Shurmur just had a press conference and said that they will hire an offensive coordinator and that, "I want to get the best guy I can and if he's outstanding at calling plays, hey I want to win games."
I didn't catch the Shurmur's presser...
hhhmmmm...looks like Shurmur is suddenly more flexible on the issue of calling plays...wonder who convinced him?
Shurmur is not running the franchise...Holmgren is.
Anyone thinking Holmgren was going to back down on the issue of Shurmur's play calling...well, you are obviously wrong.
I never said much about it during the season, but Shurmur's play calling was a lot of the problem with this offense. It had to be hard for Holmgren to watch, knowing Shurm was showing that he was not ready to take on both tasks, HC and OC.
There wasn't any type of conspiracy so I don't know where you are coming from. Shurmur hasn't spoken on the subject but Holmgren has and Holmgren said that Shurmur would probably still call plays., Shurmur is saying "not so fast" maybe the new OC will call the plays. (paraphrasing a bit)
And what ever gave you the idea that Shurmur didn't know that Holmgren was running the show..
Much ado about nothing.
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Holmgren talked about how when he was coaching, he called his own plays and enjoyed doing so and suspected shurmur felt the same way.
So there is no grand conspiracy. There is no turmoil at the top.
mourg...didn't say there was any turmoil at the top or any grand conspiracy...I was responding to some who believed Shurmur would not give up the play calling duties to a new OC, based on their interpretation of what Shurmur said in the past.
The point I'm making was, if Holmgren decided to hand the play calling duties to the OC they hire, Shurmur has but two choices...agree or not agree.
The middle ground I suggested, IF calling the plays was that important to Shurmur, would be the OC upstairs calling the plays down to Shurmur, who then sends the play in over the headset to the QB.
I don't see the Browns losing their choice of OCs because Shurmur wants to call the plays. If it came down to making a choice, I believe Holmgren would tell Shurm he isn't calling plays any longer.
That may have happened for all we know, but as of right now, it looks as though Shurmur is willing to give up play calling duties in order to hire the best OC...face it, most OCs want to call the plays.
...that works too.
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Find me a better choice then. Childress didn't call plays in Philly and struggled with it in Minny. Sherman looks to be a HC candidate more than an OC candidate. Carmichael doesn't fit your description either since he doesn't have play-calling in NO.
What WCO coach is out there that has a ton of play-calling experience, was hugely successful at it, and doesn't have a job as an OC, HC, or a cushy media job (Mooch & Gruden)?
the only argument I could see being made is Callahan and I don't see him as a complete slam-dunk (though I do have him 3rd on my list)
nolo...I don't know if Childress was relaying plays to Reid at Philly or exactly how much input he had in the play calling...we know it is very likely Shurmur knows the answer to that question.
On Childress' performance calling plays in Mini...they had steady progress in the offense every year, with the exception of Childress last 1/2 yr.
...the Vikings scoring offense improved from 26th, when Childress was first hired in 2006 and then improved to 15th, 12th and 2nd before falling off his last year when he coached for part of the season.
...also, the Vikings offensive improvement was done with QBs Brad Johnson in 2006, Travis Jackson in 2007, Gus Frerotte in 2008 and Brett Favre in 2009 and 2010.
... let's wait to see who the Browns interview and hire...
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Bevel took over play-calling from Childress in 2007. so, hard to give Chilly any credit for play-calling after that first season. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/31872/clayton-seahawks-targeting-bevellalso, many places say Childress did not call plays in Philly. Quote:
Childress did not call plays, this responsibility was taken by Andy Reid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Childress
So, now we have Clements with 2 seasons of WCO playcalling to 1+ season for Childress.
Of course, what would be funny is that Clements was released from the Bills as OC (and joined the Packers as QB-coach) in the year that Dick Jauron was hired to be the Bills HC (Marv Levy called those shots though, it was before Jauron was hired).
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How many years was Schumur an OC before he became a " Head Coach " ? I just don't know that much about Schumur !
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Quote:
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Shurmur just had a press conference and said that they will hire an offensive coordinator and that, "I want to get the best guy I can and if he's outstanding at calling plays, hey I want to win games."
I didn't catch the Shurmur's presser...
hhhmmmm...looks like Shurmur is suddenly more flexible on the issue of calling plays...wonder who convinced him?
Shurmur is not running the franchise...Holmgren is.
Anyone thinking Holmgren was going to back down on the issue of Shurmur's play calling...well, you are obviously wrong.
I never said much about it during the season, but Shurmur's play calling was a lot of the problem with this offense. It had to be hard for Holmgren to watch, knowing Shurm was showing that he was not ready to take on both tasks, HC and OC.
BS...BS...And MORE BS...
I guarandamnteeu that Holmgren isn't shovin' ANYTHING down Shumers throat...Only u Drama Queens think so...
This is where u buttholes don't get it...Media included...
Again...Some of u guys make it waaaaaay more complicated than it is...It's why some have been calling (Cough Akron Cough) for Shurmer and Holmgrens head since week 3...
Go Browns!!!
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How many years was Schumur an OC before he became a " Head Coach " ? I just don't know that much about Schumur !
It's Shurmur and two years with the Rams as OC.. prior to that, he held several positions with the eagles
Here is his bio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Shurmur
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j/c
Bevell might have had the title, but he did not call the plays. It was Chilli with the headset calling the plays. The man just sucks. He had AP and lacked imagination. IF you want more proof of his ineptitude, look no further then TJack. Chilli thought he was a west coast QB..... oh my.
put whatever list together for the OC---- and put Chilli at the bottom of it.
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.. " It's Shurmur " Told you I didn't know much about him ! .. 
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Jackson even went to Seattle, with Bevell, and had some success in the same system. What does that say about Childress?
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I'm betting we promote Whippe to OC and hire a new QB coach.
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Curious on your guys' thoughts on Tom Clements. I know he is being linked to the Penn State job, but he has been an OC in the past. He also won't be calling the plays so it's less of a true OC responsbility. Not sure why he is only the QB coach for the packers but if he was around for Rodgers and a similar system (and has had a lot of success in his entire career, including with the Packers, QB's coach for Pittsburgh, led Kordell Stewart and Elvis Grbac to their best seasons and pro bowls.
He seems legit and I heard his name once or twice, just don't know what you all think.
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I don't know if OC without play calling would qualify as a promotion.
Actually, I don't know if it would even with play calling duties, but the Packers might be willing to let him move for that kind of opportunity.I doubt that they let him move for what would basically be a lateral move.
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.. " It's Shurmur "
Told you I didn't know much about him ! ..
Careful, don't use the ROFL icon because BC will tell you that you look foolish
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Looks like somebody told him he changed his mind. Part of it, Shurm sez "playcalling, that's the fun part." It was not fun, actually painful to watch the pathetic and predictable and too often pointless parade of non-offense. One TD might have won how many games for us. I am OK with Shurm as HC, but not like this year's gig as OC too. He has liabilities in 4th qtr. IMO. Hope Holmgren coaches up the coach.  
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Looks like somebody told him he changed his mind. Part of it, Shurm sez "playcalling, that's the fun part."
It was not fun, actually painful to watch the pathetic and predictable and too often pointless parade of non-offense. One TD might have won how many games for us. I am OK with Shurm as HC, but not like this year's gig as OC too. He has liabilities in 4th qtr. IMO. Hope Holmgren coaches up the coach.
bard...I can't imagine how tough it was for Holmgren to watch Shurmur's play calling.
This was an obvious move that needed to be made...
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.. " It's Shurmur "
Told you I didn't know much about him ! ..
Careful, don't use the ROFL icon because BC will tell you that you look foolish
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 better ?
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Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Careful, don't use the ROFL icon because BC will tell you that you look foolish
funny, i thought it was the commalipses
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
Just trying to lighten things up a bit .... We have a tendency to get a LITTLE carried away in our OPINIONS !  .. Well Maybe not Toad !
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Just trying to lighten things up a bit .... We have a tendency to get a LITTLE carried away in our OPINIONS ! .. Well Maybe not Toad !
well, to be fair, Toad doesn't have opinions; what he says is obviously fact
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
Quote:
Quote:
Just trying to lighten things up a bit .... We have a tendency to get a LITTLE carried away in our OPINIONS ! .. Well Maybe not Toad !
well, to be fair, Toad doesn't have opinions; what he says is obviously fact
I stand corrected ! 
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
bard...I can't imagine how tough it was for Holmgren to watch Shurmur's play calling.
I got it! Holmgren for OC!!! That's the ticket!!! 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns will hire OC.... Possibly
Childress?
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
