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In addition, i think that this team isnt that far away...
There were only 2-3 games all year that we werent within a possession of a W at the end.
If bounces go the other way, we could have won:
Both Cincy games
Both Pittsburgh games
the Raiders game
the Rams game
the Arizona game
and the 2nd Ravens game
Thats 12 games that we did, or should have won...No of course we didnt win those games...but we couldve.
The 49ers, Titans, Texans, and and first Ravens game...well, gross...but there are some games where you just dont have a chance to win. If we add some pieces...we'll be there. You cant use the whole weak schedule thing because its an NFL schedule. We had a team that with a rookie coach, new system, no offseason, and questionable playing decision, and questionable play calling...and we still were in position to win 12 games...while winning 4.
Add in an offensive coordinator and an offseason and we have ourselves a delightfully good team.
The current regime has actually assembled talent that other teams would take...i cant remember the last time thats happened.
WE scored the same points as the 1999 expansion Browns. we were a sloppy coached team. we tackled, blocked, ran passed and caught and covered WORSE. we had a creampuff schedule and a worse record. we had all three starters in a walking boot last year yet had a Worse record. Shurmur was worse than daboll as we averaged over 2 points per game worse.
Other than Faith, and it must be the jihadist strap a bomb to yourself because you love the browns so much blid faith I see NOTHING that says we are going to catch anyone in our divison. even cinci scored an extra #1,#2, pick for carson Palmer. we will not even match the 4 wins this year.
I have faith that browns fans will be wearing bags by October next year and this chump is fired.
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Sloppy is true...
but you cant deny that we had possessions with a chance to win despite a hoorible offense (one that hasnt recovered from the loss of Edwards and Winslow). Yes the offense was bad, but its tough to deny that we had almost no talent. Alex Mack, Greg Little, Joe Thomas, and Peyton Hillis are the only guys on the roster that would ever see a snap on another roster. Thats awful. And we have to add to that. Thats more on Heckert than it is Shurmur...but with the shortened offseason and free agency with a new system...its hard to go and get guys for your style when you dont know what you have, or what you really feel that you want.
This is the offseason where we can make some moves and make decisions that improve us.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Sloppy is true...
but you cant deny that we had possessions with a chance to win despite a hoorible offense (one that hasnt recovered from the loss of Edwards and Winslow). Yes the offense was bad, but its tough to deny that we had almost no talent. Alex Mack, Greg Little, Joe Thomas, and Peyton Hillis are the only guys on the roster that would ever see a snap on another roster. Thats awful. And we have to add to that. Thats more on Heckert than it is Shurmur...but with the shortened offseason and free agency with a new system...its hard to go and get guys for your style when you dont know what you have, or what you really feel that you want.
This is the offseason where we can make some moves and make decisions that improve us.
In 1999 we had no talent. to even bring that team up underlines a point this coach froze like a deer in the headlights whenever we managed to venture into the Red Zone with pathetic obvious play calling or just absurd. My guess is no one will want to be a puppet OC and he retains those duties. 4-12 next year as well. as this guy proves weekly he does the lest with what he has anyway.
1999 Browns, put that in the pipe and smoke it. This guy is horrible. Nice Hire Mikey!!!
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j/c Couldn't find anywhere better to put this. Not that it's all that . . .  Browns season wrapup: Coach Pat Shurmur already looking forward to next seasonFiled by Scott Petrak January 18th, 2012 in http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/category/sports/browns-notes/Coach Pat Shurmur is genuinely excited for the offseason. And not just because that means his 4-12 first season is over. He knows what he missed last year when the lockout deprived him of the entire offseason: team meetings, an introduction to the playbook, a conditioning program, minicamps. And he’s eager for a return to normalcy. “I think the one thing that’s a little bit reassuring for me is I can visualize what the offseason is going to look like,” he said near the end of the season. “I’ve got it all planned out down to the day already, all the way through the summertime. I like to be able to do that and that will allow me to direct us the right way.” On a scale of day in the park to train wreck, Shurmur’s first season as a head coach at any level was much closer to the latter. Besides the losses, there were a handful of situations on the sideline he could’ve handled better. And that didn’t include him getting penalized 15 yards for knocking down an official in the first half of the opener. The miscues did include being caught off-guard by the Bengals for the winning touchdown later in the opener and handing off to a backup tight end in a crucial spot against the Rams. Those examples were exploited by talk radio, and any questionable clock management or game management that followed was harshly criticized. Of course, all the losing didn’t help Shurmur’s public image. If the on-field problems weren’t enough, Shurmur was also tested off the field. Running back Peyton Hillis was sick, hurt or complaining for the first 11 weeks. Quarterback Colt McCoy’s concussion and late diagnosis by the team monopolized the last month. Each episode required Shurmur to answer a series of difficult questions that had never been part of his job description. He survived, even if his psyche sustained a few scars. As much as Shurmur is ready to move forward at full speed, we need to take a final glance back while simultaneously looking ahead to what promises to be a riveting and pivotal offseason.
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Hmm... reads like an article a writer creates when he has to submit SOMETHING by deadline during a period when there's little-to-nothing to talk about. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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Joe, I think I now have a handle on your basic make-up. I could be wrong, but I've read enough of your posts to have formed a basic 'personality profile.' You seem to be: 1. Dogmatic and concrete. You view the evidence, make a determination and go with it, come hell or high water. Mitigating circumstance holds no weight in your POV... a thing is what it is, and nothing more... until that circumstance leaves the realm of the possible, and enters the realm of the absolute. Only then will you acknowlege it. 2. a person of strong conviction, which in itself can be either a good thing or a bad thing... determined only by the correctness of your initial proclivities. That, coupled with your first trait, make you one of the more, shall I say, "controversial" individuals on this board. Many times, I've read posts by you that I've agreed with, but it's rare that I chime in, because you've handled your POV in such a blunt, forceful way that any words I might add would simply be 'gilding the lily.' If you wore a robe and sat on the bench, no doubt you'd have already earned the nickname "Hang'em High Joe."  3. Some folks are willows, others are oaks. Dawg... you ain't no willow, that's for sure. You tend to dig your roots in deep, and try to withstand the winds of "what if?" mitigation and "we can't see into the future" at all costs. But you know what? When gale-force winds to the contrary blow through football town, it's usually the willow that is left standing, while crews of hardhats armed with chainsaws are grinding up all the fallen oaks, while munching on ham sandwiches during their lunchbreaks. Just sayin.' A couple weeks ago, I responded to one of your posts by saying, "Sing it, Johnny One-Note...." I'm not sure if you (or even most of our posters) got the reference, but in your case, it's entirely appropos. Look it up... you'll see what I mean. ______________________ Joe... imho, you're a valued participant here. You have stong opinions, and you're not afraid to voice them... that trait lends a certain- 'attitude' here that is very Jim Rome-esque. I can live with that quite well. But once- just once... ..could you PLEEEEZE leave a little room in your delivery for the possibility that your opinions might be off a bit, or that others might have a point (based on the fact that none of us can really be sure without daily walking the halls of 76 Groza) even if they differ from you? Dawg... the change would be refreshing... and probably land you an extra fan or two, including me. It takes a few more keystrokes, but it goes a loooong way toward helping your POV reach others. Yeah, this admin hasn't been perfect in all their decisions- what admin ever has? And your opinions regrding their shortcomings are well-documented by now. My question is simply this: Do you see no hope at all for H3+Shoe... and do you want a wholesale purge from the top down? If so, I'm giving you the chance to come out right now and say a definitive "yes," or take this opportunity to give us some insight into what might be done to help them meet with your approval. If nothing else, it would do two things: 1. Give us something new to discuss with you 2. Give us all a break from your monotone hammering of this current administration. looking forward to a response that doesn't overflow with disgust and disapproval, -Clem 
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Well said, Clem. We'll see if it does any good.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Nice Clem.. as usual, you are the voice of reason. But..... I'm not sure it will result in anymore than more of the same ole same ole. Good effort however...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joe, I think I now have a handle on your basic make-up. I could be wrong, but I've read enough of your posts to have formed a basic 'personality profile.' You seem to be:
1. Dogmatic and concrete. You view the evidence, make a determination and go with it, come hell or high water. Mitigating circumstance holds no weight in your POV... a thing is what it is, and nothing more... until that circumstance leaves the realm of the possible, and enters the realm of the absolute. Only then will you acknowlege it.
2. a person of strong conviction, which in itself can be either a good thing or a bad thing... determined only by the correctness of your initial proclivities. That, coupled with your first trait, make you one of the more, shall I say, "controversial" individuals on this board. Many times, I've read posts by you that I've agreed with, but it's rare that I chime in, because you've handled your POV in such a blunt, forceful way that any words I might add would simply be 'gilding the lily.' If you wore a robe and sat on the bench, no doubt you'd have already earned the nickname "Hang'em High Joe."
3. Some folks are willows, others are oaks. Dawg... you ain't no willow, that's for sure. You tend to dig your roots in deep, and try to withstand the winds of "what if?" mitigation and "we can't see into the future" at all costs. But you know what? When gale-force winds to the contrary blow through football town, it's usually the willow that is left standing, while crews of hardhats armed with chainsaws are grinding up all the fallen oaks, while munching on ham sandwiches during their lunchbreaks. Just sayin.'
A couple weeks ago, I responded to one of your posts by saying, "Sing it, Johnny One-Note...."
I'm not sure if you (or even most of our posters) got the reference, but in your case, it's entirely appropos. Look it up... you'll see what I mean.
______________________
Joe... imho, you're a valued participant here. You have stong opinions, and you're not afraid to voice them... that trait lends a certain- 'attitude' here that is very Jim Rome-esque. I can live with that quite well. But once- just once...
..could you PLEEEEZE leave a little room in your delivery for the possibility that your opinions might be off a bit, or that others might have a point (based on the fact that none of us can really be sure without daily walking the halls of 76 Groza) even if they differ from you? Dawg... the change would be refreshing... and probably land you an extra fan or two, including me. It takes a few more keystrokes, but it goes a loooong way toward helping your POV reach others.
Yeah, this admin hasn't been perfect in all their decisions- what admin ever has? And your opinions regrding their shortcomings are well-documented by now. My question is simply this:
Do you see no hope at all for H3+Shoe... and do you want a wholesale purge from the top down? If so, I'm giving you the chance to come out right now and say a definitive "yes," or take this opportunity to give us some insight into what might be done to help them meet with your approval.
If nothing else, it would do two things:
1. Give us something new to discuss with you
2. Give us all a break from your monotone hammering of this current administration.
looking forward to a response that doesn't overflow with disgust and disapproval,
-Clem
That was fun Clem yet let me say you have described your map not me.
1) Dogmatice. wasn't it I who was so mad abut giving away Brady Quinn for chump change and a throw in RB I called a "Ham Sandwich".
Yet it took no gale force wind to change my mind but the fast evidence we got a great back in Hillis. While many took delight in my being wrong. my stance was who cares, The browns Finally got the better end of a trade. I loved it. a little evidence is all I need. Now to the truly Dogmatic around here a contrary opinion is attacked with the venom a Torquemada of the Inquisition might bring. For those people, the truly Dogmatic, they know who they are. Hillis is an example where i was as wrong as I could be and not only was NOT stubbornly dug in I irritated the Dogmatics by gleeful embrace of my mistake.
2) strong conviction. I have to give you that. I was of strong conviction this preseason the dumping of Vickers would have adverse affects to the running game and HANDING the job to an untested rookie was a mistake. I based that on evidence of some great blocking seen from Vickers. I was also of strong conviction that whistling past the graveyard and pretending our Oline and receiving corp were sound would also have dire effects to the point I was crucified for predicting a 4-12 season in August. While i was right(who cares) I winced through every play like everyone here. Do I have a crystal ball? hardly..add one bad FB, a crappy oline, spotty wrs and see what kind of help that gives a young QB. My last words on this move of Vickers was "I bet the RBs are real excited Vickers is leaving". I had strong conviction and dogmatic yet had we moved the ball well, had Hillis had great blocking behind Merecic, and the receivers showed their great hands I would have been as glad to be wrong as about Hillis trade.
In the face of the evidence, the line stunk, the wrs led the nfl in drops and the production from the running backs plummeted and we scored the same points as the EXPANSION Browns..I see no evidence to prove I was mistaken. I stand as an oak on that.
3) I realize to many around here consensus is important. To me it is evidence.
WE hired an Offensive coach and he was offensive for all the wrong reasons. he was a horrid game day manager and called extremely obvious plays and often did not use the talent he possessed very well. and he sent a concussed QB into the game.
The front office took some Major hits in any automatic confidence(again evidence) by declaring the oline and wr corps fit in preseason and sitting on their hands in free agency.
allowing Vickers and Eric Wright to walk and Roth as well and we had to settle for very poor subs in all three cases.
The president took a Huge hit with me when we raced through the vetting process and he hired Uncle Fritz's nephew who proved weekly that he was overmatched vs EVERY coach he faced. add low talent to bad coaching and next years schedule...even if the talent base inmproves... The worst point is the in your face attitude of Holmgren( a true Oak and oblivious to any evidence) is the hell of high water approach to any criticism of his wretched hire. Then heckert on a recent radio interview says the guy did a great job...no Harbaugh and Fox did great jobs, this guy's team scored the same points as the 1999 Browns.
Here is the some of the Evidence I need to BELIEVE things are getting better.
1) we hire a top OC like Sherman to relieve Shurmy of his play calling "abilities"
2) we quit the head games with Hillis and offer decent RB starting salary(this never happens because methinks Hillis and Coach have some bad blood or Hillis and somebody of the Browns Berea Brains)
3) we keep Dawson.
4) we get the best dline and oline in the draft, since we keep hillis we won't be forced to take a RB in round one.
IF I see some of those i will do the willow for you, Clemdawg. Thanks for your thoughtful post. you made your points specific, with no personal attack or venom. I love to disagree with men like you because i know you will use what you believe as EVIDENCE to make your points. and I can always learn and bend to evidence I believe in. Sadly many here reflexively attack when anyone dares stray from the Dogma of GROUPTHINK yet By your well thought post I can more clearly see( your well written evidence) that you are not one of those. You think for yourself to stand root to root with another Oak.
I really am a willow at heart about this team. My anger is watching the rendition of the kings new clothes to understand we are still in a desert. Until Evidence proves the contrary.
For that i will lose playoff ticket privileges
Last edited by akronjoe; 01/19/12 10:23 AM.
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Quote:
allowing Vickers and Eric Wright to walk and Roth as well and we had to settle for very poor subs in all three cases.
We tried to re-sign Wright and he chose to go elsewhere. Roth didn't want to play in a 4-3, mostly because he is a bad fit.
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3) we keep Dawson.
We obviously want to keep Dawson. Why else would we use the franchise tag on him? But he will probably want the chance to play for a perennial contender before his career is over.
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Yet it took no gale force wind to change my mind but the fast evidence we got a great back in Hillis.
You realized he was good and could no longer complain. (Kind of like the Shaun Rogers/Phil Taylor situation that you harped on all off-season).
"a thing is what it is, and nothing more... until that circumstance leaves the realm of the possible, and enters the realm of the absolute. Only then will you acknowlege it. "
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You make some good points, Joe. I only take issue with your evaluation of the FO in regards to the line and the WRs.
Yes, our WRs were pathetic. The thing you can't seem to understand is that the FO can only address so many positions in one offseason. What FA WR was available to us that would plug that hole? You act like there are young, talented #1 WRs that are beating down the door to play for us and the FO turned them away. Reality is quite the opposite. Those guys are rare, and require high picks and/or lots and lots of FA money. We simply chose to address that need later. Oh yeah, and the FO said they are opening up to free agency to plug holes/accelerate the process. Sounds like the oak is a little more willowy than you thought.
The OL went to crap at the very end of a very crazy pre-season. Again, you have this thought that young, talented RT just grow on trees. They don't. What RT would you have gone out and grabbed?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Thanks for helping me make my point to Joe. Just because the FO HASN'T addressed certain issues doesn't mean that they WON'T. I don't really think they are blind to the things we see... there's only so much they can do at any given time. That's where I part ways with Joe. Take the Vickers/Marecic trade-off as an example: ot present, there was a big dropoff in production at the FB spot, but we simply don't yet know if Marecic will grow into the spot and flourish. Joe has been vocal in stating the obvious, but to date I haven't read if he thinks Marecic has potential. Such a projection would lend some nuance to his delivery. @Joe: thanks for the response. It was a much more enjoyable read. I also saw that you used the word "methinks" in another post.... now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Clem,
Some people think building an NFL franchise is like building a fantasy football team, and it just doesn't work that way.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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One thing I forgot to mention is the FO "sound bites" regarding our WRs and LBs. They said something to the effect of, "we're good" regarding the talent we had. People are going to jump down their throat, but what do you expect them to say? I'd pee my pants if I heard a GM come out and say his WR-corp was crap and that he doesn't have enough fingers to plug all the holes in the dam.
They've been as pro-active as you can be with that position, to date. They cut Robiskie when they were convinced he wasn't going to do a 180 in a WCO.
Now, if they can't pick up a WR in this offseason's draft/FA, then criticism would be warranted. WR is in the top2 of this team's needs (last year it got bumped way down by dline, then dline.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Bryant McKinnie was available for peanuts after the Vikings cut him.
Tony Pashos couldn't tie his shoelaces.
Leonard Davis would have been a upgrade over Lavauo. Heck Steven Hawking would have been a better OG than Lavauo.
what WR's were available..Steve Breaston,Laurent Robinson, Brandon Lloyd for a 6th RD pick....
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I think that the main point some are missing is that the FO wanted the season to evaluate the WR and the OL. They were staying away from big spending on WR,OL & really LB's. If you listen to H&H, then THIS yr. is the yr. that they will start to spend more & more on FA, while still wanting to build thru the draft.
They really did not feel they knew what they had in certain areas, I think thats why they choose to take a year and eval. Now on with the Show!
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I think that the main point some are missing is that the FO wanted the season to evaluate the WR and the OL. They were staying away from big spending on WR,OL & really LB's. If you listen to H&H, then THIS yr. is the yr. that they will start to spend more & more on FA, while still wanting to build thru the draft.
They really did not feel they knew what they had in certain areas, I think thats why they choose to take a year and eval. Now on with the Show!
I don't know if that's true, but it does kinda make some sense...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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hmm... maybe.
Except everyone who has half a brain knew our recievers as a whole were gonna be pathetic, so surely they knew this as well?
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Daman...Thanks man.
I think they may have suspected, but with a new coach coming in & no off season they decided to wait, see what we had and then we'd be better able to start spending $$ in FA, & have some ammo for the draft to. JMHO
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
hmm... maybe.
Except everyone who has half a brain knew our recievers as a whole were gonna be pathetic, so surely they knew this as well?
Again, this is pure speculation on my part, but look at our receivers.. All of them were relatively young except for cribbs. Now I'm not a guru but I've heard folks on here write that it takes a year or two or sometimes three for a WR to really hit his stride and show something of value.
So maybe.. they needed last year to see if development would take place. and they did draft a WR last year (little).. so maybe they were just looking for development.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They had a whole season(2010) to watch and evaluate.If the WCO gurus couldn't extrapolate what they saw to what was needed,then we need new talent evaluators.
I think it's more likely they knew we were going to suck this year,so they installed new schemes,saved cap space and now we should be ready to move on to 2012.
In other words,someone lied to us.That the way big business works.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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They had a whole season(2010) to watch and evaluate.If the WCO gurus couldn't extrapolate what they saw to what was needed,then we need new talent evaluators.
I think it's more likely they knew we were going to suck this year,so they installed new schemes,saved cap space and now we should be ready to move on to 2012.
In other words,someone lied to us.That the way big business works.
Oh, I'm not certain about all that. They decided to give the WRs from the last regime a shot at their NFL dreams by adjusting to a new scheme. Robiskie just didn't seem to catch on. It's like he was playing a game of backyard football and couldn't go beyond that skill level and he was cut during the season. He simply couldn't earn his paycheck and was sent out of town unceremoniously.
To be sure, there has to be marked improvement by the team in 2012 or the calls for Holmgren's (and Shurmur's) heads will be deafening. I think Heckert would be offered to keep his job if he wanted to keep it. I think he's a very good GM and has earned that reputation.
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Quote:
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They had a whole season(2010) to watch and evaluate.If the WCO gurus couldn't extrapolate what they saw to what was needed,then we need new talent evaluators.
I think it's more likely they knew we were going to suck this year,so they installed new schemes,saved cap space and now we should be ready to move on to 2012.
In other words,someone lied to us.That the way big business works.
Oh, I'm not certain about all that. They decided to give the WRs from the last regime a shot at their NFL dreams by adjusting to a new scheme. Robiskie just didn't seem to catch on. It's like he was playing a game of backyard football and couldn't go beyond that skill level and he was cut during the season. He simply couldn't earn his paycheck and was sent out of town unceremoniously.
To be sure, there has to be marked improvement by the team in 2012 or the calls for Holmgren's (and Shurmur's) heads will be deafening. I think Heckert would be offered to keep his job if he wanted to keep it. I think he's a very good GM and has earned that reputation.
If you listened to Lerners interview he is on board with Holmgren so as much as I agree I dont see it happening next year even if we go 0-16. Heckert will make his mark this draft. Mike called him the car salesman or something like that so I expect to see us make some moves maybe late round moves etc but some moves.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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To be sure, there has to be marked improvement by the team in 2012 or the calls for Holmgren's (and Shurmur's) heads will be deafening. I think Heckert would be offered to keep his job if he wanted to keep it. I think he's a very good GM and has earned that reputation.
I don't care what the record is next year, I hope this statement never comes true..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If you listened to Lerners interview he is on board with Holmgren so as much as I agree I dont see it happening next year even if we go 0-16. Heckert will make his mark this draft. Mike called him the car salesman or something like that so I expect to see us make some moves maybe late round moves etc but some moves.
I've not heard his interview. I don't think I've heard the man speak but one time.
If the team went 0-16, I wouldn't expect them (Holmgren & Shurmur) to remain as president and HC respectively.
I think Heckert's selections have been good ones on the whole. I think that he's already been told to focus on the offensive side of the ball because the fans and media are grumbling for more points to be scored. That's probably the right approach to take, but I wouldn't be surprised for their plans include finding some gems on defense in the later rounds and making some acquisitions in free agency for the defensive side of the ball.
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Here is the interview,, if you get a chance to listen to it,, you may come away with a different perspective http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...62-be5060bfdcccfor sure, if you stay with it until the end, you will hear that he has NO Focus on changing any of the top guys.. none of them but even more interesting is the middle of the interview,, he's asked if McCoy is the guy and he basically refuses to answer. those that like McCoy and want to give him more time will find that frustrating and those that don't like McCoy and think he needs replaced will find comfort. Personally, I don't think Lerner would say that in that fashion if he hadn't been in on meetings where replaceing Colt was discussed.. my guess, we'll get another QB for next year. I wouldn't have said that prior to listening to this interview.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/20/12 08:18 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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wow, that's the first time I've heard Lerner talk I think. He came off as a really likeable guy.
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Thanks for helping me make my point to Joe.
Just because the FO HASN'T addressed certain issues doesn't mean that they WON'T.
I don't really think they are blind to the things we see... there's only so much they can do at any given time. That's where I part ways with Joe. Take the Vickers/Marecic trade-off as an example: ot present, there was a big dropoff in production at the FB spot, but we simply don't yet know if Marecic will grow into the spot and flourish. Joe has been vocal in stating the obvious, but to date I haven't read if he thinks Marecic has potential. Such a projection would lend some nuance to his delivery.
@Joe: thanks for the response. It was a much more enjoyable read. I also saw that you used the word "methinks" in another post.... now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!
Clem nice response. I don't know what to think abut mericic yet. really its too early. my gripe with the front office is you don't hand the job to a rookie, you make him WIN it.
Whistling past the graveyard and pretending we have solid Oline and Wr units was what troubled me about the front office. While everyone agrees that The Browns front office cannot address every problem there is no need to make new holes and waste picks to fill them.. If your team is a road full of potholes you don't need to make more potholes.
On the record I blew it on the Shaun Rogers rant as well, turns out his injury did not turn any corner as he was pushed all over the field in NO. I really thought IN MY OPINION he had more left in the tank and would recover another year out from his Achilles. It looks like he is done and rarely started by later in the year. . See Clem, a willow, new evidence trumps Opinion every time.
Last edited by akronjoe; 01/20/12 10:26 AM.
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When asked about yelling in Mikes office..he say's .." yeah and things get thrown..Ooops ! sorry Mike I shouldn't of said that "...
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Here is the interview,, if you get a chance to listen to it,, you may come away with a different perspective
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...62-be5060bfdccc
for sure, if you stay with it until the end, you will hear that he has NO Focus on changing any of the top guys.. none of them
but even more interesting is the middle of the interview,, he's asked if McCoy is the guy and he basically refuses to answer. those that like McCoy and want to give him more time will find that frustrating and those that don't like McCoy and think he needs replaced will find comfort.
Personally, I don't think Lerner would say that in that fashion if he hadn't been in on meetings where replaceing Colt was discussed..
my guess, we'll get another QB for next year. I wouldn't have said that prior to listening to this interview.
Lerner did seem to slip up I agree, also there is the snippet in Profootball talk where Kiper says we may draft RG3 and his WR in rnd1 and "kick Colt to the Curb".
Yet we keep the mediocre Seneca Wallace.
Last edited by akronjoe; 01/20/12 10:29 AM.
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I don't know what to think abut mericic yet. really its too early. my gripe with the front office is you don't hand the job to a rookie, you make him WIN it.
I believe he won the job against Tyler Clutts...I know the Coaching staff really liked Clutts..
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also there is the snippet in Profootball talk where Kiper says we may draft RG3 and his WR in rnd1 and "kick Colt to the Curb".
Yet we keep the mediocre Seneca Wallace.
That's just his opinion... Doesn't mean squat...And whose to say Wallace is here or not when the season starts....
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wow, that's the first time I've heard Lerner talk I think. He came off as a really likeable guy.
I've not had the pleasure of having met him, but yeah, he does seem likable.
Trivsanno, (who I think is a media whore) did bring out a good point.
Randy Lerner has hired people that, if you look at thier credentials, had the right skill set, came from the right organizatons, had the right "upbringing" if you will.. All the bloodlines for Savage, Crennel, Mangini and yeah, even Kokanis were right on.
Being a guy who's hired tons of folks over the years,I can assure you that you can look at the resumes, sit down with them, talk to references, do a background check on them, do a drug test on them.. In essence, do your due deligence to the max.. and still get someone that because of circumstances, doesn't succeed.
so, all in all, it's hard to fault him for the past hires. They didn't work and he's manning up and taking the responsibility for the mistakes, but his errors weren't errors of omission, they were errors of commission. He was trying to find the right mix and just did'nt.
Art Rooney didn't find it until Chuck Noll.. (about seven coaches and about 20+years later) sometimes, it just takes time. Then when it works, you look like a genius LOL
Key thing to me, he took the hit.. he blamed nobody else. He stood up.
So yeah, I found him to be very likable..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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They had a whole season(2010) to watch and evaluate.If the WCO gurus couldn't extrapolate what they saw to what was needed,then we need new talent evaluators.
I think it's more likely they knew we were going to suck this year,so they installed new schemes,saved cap space and now we should be ready to move on to 2012.
In other words,someone lied to us.That the way big business works.
and you forgot to add "got a bunch of compensatory picks" out of the deal too by not signing 1 year stop-gap guys.
I would like to think that the FO knew we were in trouble at WR but decided that because we had so many young guys there they would hold their hands to the frying pan to figure out which ones were worth keeping. It's easier to do that if you give all those young guys playing time.
#gmstrong
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To be sure, there has to be marked improvement by the team in 2012 or the calls for Holmgren's (and Shurmur's) heads will be deafening. I think Heckert would be offered to keep his job if he wanted to keep it. I think he's a very good GM and has earned that reputation.
I don't care what the record is next year, I hope this statement never comes true..
so you are all in at 4-12 next season too?
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To be sure, there has to be marked improvement by the team in 2012 or the calls for Holmgren's (and Shurmur's) heads will be deafening. I think Heckert would be offered to keep his job if he wanted to keep it. I think he's a very good GM and has earned that reputation.
I don't care what the record is next year, I hope this statement never comes true..
so you are all in at 4-12 next season too?
Yeah,, that sounds like exactly what I said.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Actually, joe, you're all in for another 4-12 season. More changes in offensive and defensive philosophies, changes to the coaching staff who want to redo the roster and put in their systems.
More changes at the top = another 4-12 season
A coach gets at least 3 years. A rookie coach possibly more.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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They had a whole season(2010) to watch and evaluate.If the WCO gurus couldn't extrapolate what they saw to what was needed,then we need new talent evaluators.
I think it's more likely they knew we were going to suck this year,so they installed new schemes,saved cap space and now we should be ready to move on to 2012.
In other words,someone lied to us.That the way big business works.
If believing all that makes you sleep better or feel more "in the know" then be my guest, but I'm pretty sure you are off base.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It took you 4 months to come up with a reply to something I said back in Jan and that's the best you have to offer?
The next time you have to take a test sit next to Claiborne,you could copy off him and improve your score.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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It took you 4 months to come up with a reply to something I said back in Jan and that's the best you have to offer?
The next time you have to take a test sit next to Claiborne,you could copy off him and improve your score.
Sorry it took so long,,, I don't really pay all that much attention to you...
Besides, I just read it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Damanshot, nothing at all to do with your current post about regimes, just this single burning question: Is electile dysfunction a treatable condition? Are there quality of life issues of which we should be aware? Still one hilarious tag. . .
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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