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I knew you were going to take the opening to start on McCoy again. In this case, it's irrelevant (and irritating) to talk QBs in this thread.
The Falcons believed they were in a position to mortgage the farm for the guy they thought would put them over the edge. You see it with teams paying a big FA to put them over the top, and that's what ATL did (this is the team that took the Packers down to the wire in the playoffs last year). Maybe it was dumb to expect a rookie WR to play the role of "that guy" to put them over the top, but I don't think so.
Point is, they thought the team was good to go and they just needed "the guy". I would've agreed with them going into the last draft. Maybe they were wrong, but it's tough to hold that one against them. The Giants are red-hot right now. I think that had more to do with the outcome of the game than ATL's draft strategy.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Let me ask you this.
Suppose the NFL suddenly had every single player become a free agent, and there were no tags. Every single player suddenly had no contract, and was free to sign with any team.
Under such a scenario, what position do you suppose would be the 1st position every team would be fighting over?
If every NFL player was put into a pool, and they started a draft where teams could select anyone currently in the league .... what do you suppose the odds are that the 1st 10 or so picks might include guys like
Brady
Brees
Roethlisberger
Rodgers
Stafford
Newton
Schaub
Rivers
Eli Manning
I bet they would. The NFL is a QB/passing league. They create more and more rules making it easier to pass each and every *ahem* passing year.
QBs not only make receivers, they make teams.
Is there still a CAP? 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And 21 pretty good players with an average QB gets you nowhere.
Disagree.
Give me a team with 21 good players and an average qb.............or give me a team with a standout qb and 21 below average players, I'm taking the first choice. Every day, and twice on Sunday - and I'll beat you 9 times out of 10.
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I wonder why he didn't write this right after the draft.
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This a agree with as well. At the time Atlanta felt they where 1 player away from being great and make a bold move to try to reach the SB. They didnt get it done this year but that doesnt mean that they will not next year or the year after.
The first year is never the measuring stick with rookies.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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And 21 pretty good players with an average QB gets you nowhere.
Disagree.
Give me a team with 21 good players and an average qb.............or give me a team with a standout qb and 21 below average players, I'm taking the first choice. Every day, and twice on Sunday - and I'll beat you 9 times out of 10.
So what?
Now you each have mediocre teams that,unfortunately,will have to play teams with good players and good qbs.
He's trying to make a very valid point,the most important position is the QB,and he is far and away the most important.
The NFL is becoming more and more like the Arena League each year,and in doing so,increasing the value of a top flight qb.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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And 21 pretty good players with an average QB gets you nowhere.
Disagree.
Give me a team with 21 good players and an average qb.............or give me a team with a standout qb and 21 below average players, I'm taking the first choice. Every day, and twice on Sunday - and I'll beat you 9 times out of 10.
To some folks, it's all about the flash.. they like shiney new toys and don't care if they won't last.
Give me a team of average guys that don't have the big names but have learned to play together as a unit, and I'll take that every single time.
For any given year where they share common values, They will win every game they play...
Let's see, what was the team that was so unknown and so unheralded when they went undefeated...... Oh yeah,, Miami Dolphins..
no big names on O or D.. (of course they were all big names afterward but not before) In fact, wasn't thier D known as the "no name Defense"?
Give me average guys working together towards a common goal and putting thier personal agenda aside.. every single time.. They'll win more games then they lose for as long as they can hold onto the ability to play as a unit and not as a group of individuals with varying agendas.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Give me a team of average guys that don't have the big names but have learned to play together as a unit, and I'll take that every single time.
Name a team with that makeup that has come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Average players don't win.
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Maybe the Dirty Bird Atlanta Falcons? Was Jamaal Anderson the best player o. That team?
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Maybe the Dirty Bird Atlanta Falcons? Was Jamaal Anderson the best player o. That team?
You mean the bust that is now a backup for the Colts?
Roddy White, Michael Turner, Josh Abraham, and Jonathan Babineaux are/were great players.
And the Falcons have not yet won a playoff game under Matt Ryan.
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He means the Jamal Anderson that played for the Falcons in Super Bowl XXXIII.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Ah, the spelling threw me off. I can't speak intelligently about that team, so I will pass it on to someone who can.
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I think you need 6 to 8 probowler types to have any type of shot.
One of those better be QB or you have no shot
Last edited by Mourgrym; 01/10/12 11:18 PM.
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And 21 pretty good players with an average QB gets you nowhere.
Disagree.
Give me a team with 21 good players and an average qb.............or give me a team with a standout qb and 21 below average players, I'm taking the first choice. Every day, and twice on Sunday - and I'll beat you 9 times out of 10.
How else did the Ravens win a Superbowl?
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So let's look at this another way. I think we all agree the QB is the most important position for any ONE player on a team. Each team though has different needs to make a dramatic difference in winning games.
THE QUESTION IS: Given one pick, one player..Would the Browns be a much better team with a Calvin Johnson, Aaron Rodgers, another Joe Thomas, Darrel Revis or a Reggie White ? Whatever your answer..
THATS the position this team needs the most to make a dramatic leap in performance in the shortest amount of time with only ONE player.
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You can't really tell the value of a trade based on this season.
I have seen enough of Jones to know that he was a good choice. I am crious to see what the Browns do with the selection to determine the real value of the pick.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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If WR's are shiny hood ornaments, then Db's are Moths gathering at the flame of bright light reflecting off of those shiny hood ornaments.
The 10 best db's ever to play the game could not win a super bowl with below average players around and especially a below average coach and quarterback. Look at the 2011 Browns for proof of that.
Teams like the Atl Falcons probably aren't interested in draft picks because they are busy trying to win the super bowl, making the playoffs 3 years in a row.
The Browns are not going to make the playoffs 3 years in a row without improvement from their coach and quarterback.
It takes a coach and a quarterback amoung other things.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Give me a team of average guys that don't have the big names but have learned to play together as a unit, and I'll take that every single time.
Name a team with that makeup that has come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Average players don't win.
Miami Dolphins.. As I said, they even called themselves the No Name Defense.
next your going to tell me they weren't average but even they felt they were...
Not only did they win the Superbowl two years in a row, but one of those years, they went undefeated....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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Give me a team of average guys that don't have the big names but have learned to play together as a unit, and I'll take that every single time.
Name a team with that makeup that has come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Average players don't win.
Miami Dolphins.. As I said, they even called themselves the No Name Defense.
next your going to tell me they weren't average but even they felt they were...
I don't know that you could give a worse example if you tried.
1972: 7 Hall of Famers, 9 Pro Bowlers, 3 All-Pros
1973: 7 Hall of Famers, 12 Pro Bowlers, 7 All-Pros
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Quote:
Quote:
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Give me a team of average guys that don't have the big names but have learned to play together as a unit, and I'll take that every single time.
Name a team with that makeup that has come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Average players don't win.
Miami Dolphins.. As I said, they even called themselves the No Name Defense.
next your going to tell me they weren't average but even they felt they were...
I don't know that you could give a worse example if you tried.
The 1972 and '73 teams had 6 Hall of Famers on the roster (7 if you count Shula).
9 Pro Bowlers in '72, and 12 in '73.
Were they probowlers when they won those games? NO.. were they recognized after the fact? Yes they were.
You have to view it in the time it happened. Not 35+ years later..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Were they probowlers when they won those games? NO..
Wrong again.
Heading into the 1972 season, the Dolphins had 7 Pro Bowlers on their roster.
Of those 7, one had already been a Pro Bowler 4 times, and 5 had two under their belts.
Heading into the 1973 season, they had 9 Pro Bowlers on the roster.
And, again, SIX Hall of Famers.
EDIT: Heading into the 1972 season, they had 8 Pro Bowlers on their roster (7 from the previous season). Jim Kiick made the Pro Bowl in '68 and '69.
Last edited by PhilDawsonRocks; 01/11/12 08:34 AM.
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Were they probowlers when they won those games? NO..
Wrong again.
Heading into the 1972 season, the Dolphins had 7 Pro Bowlers on their roster.
Of those 7, one had already been a Pro Bowler 4 times, and 5 had two under their belts.
Heading into the 1973 season, they had 9 Pro Bowlers on the roster.
And, again, SIX Hall of Famers.
EDIT: Heading into the 1972 season, they had 8 Pro Bowlers on their roster (7 from the previous season). Jim Kiick made the Pro Bowl in '68 and '69.
Ok,, My bad on the Probowlers,, That apparently had some stars.. you win
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Give me a team of average guys that don't have the big names but have learned to play together as a unit, and I'll take that every single time.
Name a team with that makeup that has come close to winning a Super Bowl.
Average players don't win.
actually it has happened many times and to the same coach like a ground Hog Day nightmare.
Marty Schottenhiemer always squeezed the very most out of average to a little above average talent. his downfall, come playoff time his teams had to play ELITE Qbs and lost. Browns, Chiefs, Chargers all blamed the Coach and all teams fell off the map when Marty left( the Chargers became SOFT)
The Curse of Marty was his greatest skill, he got the very most out of the least, and falling short at dance time got him fired.
he was the last great Coach this team had.(belichik learned how Not to coach here)
had Kosar had an elite Oline....maybe some rings here in Cleveland and for Marty.
One man beat Cleveland, the cannon arm of John Elway. yet in the playoffs when Denver went to the Super bowl and ran out of all the luck they had vs the browns : they were waxed..until Elways skills eroded and the team grew stronger around him.
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he was the last great Coach this team had.(belichik learned how Not to coach here)
Belichick took a team that was 3-13 and in a few years had them at 11-5 with Vinnie Testeverde at QB.. he may have learned some people skills do's and don'ts while he was here, but he already knew how to coach.
yebat' Putin
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That's all fine and dandy, but how is it a recent, pertinent example to just rant on and off about Marty? Especially since the illegal contact rule was put in place, how can you maintain the premise that average across the board is good enough to win a Super Bowl? You can't just line up with a full-house backfield, announce you're going to cram the ball down the D's throat, and have your QB manage a cool 8-12 for 90 yards and get a win anymore. If you don't have the ability to jump out early or come back from a deficit with a sense of urgency, you're toast.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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jc
Browns to pick at Nos. 4 and 22
By Matt Florjancic, ClevelandBrowns.com Staff Writer
Posted Jan 9, 2012
The Browns will make two selections in the first 25 picks in April’s NFL Draft.
One team’s loss quickly turned into the Cleveland Browns’ gain.
With Atlanta’s 24-2 loss at the New York Giants in Sunday’s Wildcard playoff game, the Falcons earned the No. 22 pick in the 2012 NFL Draft in April. The pick Atlanta earned was traded to the Browns last April when the Falcons moved up to select wide receiver Julio Jones at No. 6.
The Browns now hold the Nos. 4 and 22 overall picks in April’s draft.
The last time the Browns made two first round picks came in 2007, when they took former University of Wisconsin star offensive lineman Joe Thomas at No. 3 overall. Then, they traded back into the first round in order to select quarterback Brady Quinn out of the University of Notre Dame.
The Browns last made a pick at No. 22 in the draft when they selected Quinn.
The 2012 NFL Draft will be held from Thursday, April 26 through Saturday, April 28 in New York City’s famed Radio City Music Hall.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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The Browns last made a pick at No. 22 in the draft when they selected Quinn.
And if that's not an endorsement for ANY position except QB at 22 ..... I don't know what is.  
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Browns last made a pick at No. 22 in the draft when they selected Quinn.
And if that's not an endorsement for ANY position except QB at 22 ..... I don't know what is.
Yeah, we'd be better off waiting til the 6th round and getting a Brady (as in Tom), as opposed to trading away our future picks for a might be.
If a "might be" is there for us to take with our pick at # 4, do it. Otherwise - don't.
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A little late to this party...
The author is emphatic, and though the Browns fan in me gets a grin out of his viewpoint which indicates out team took his team to the cleaners in the deal, my actual feeling is that it's just too damned early to tell if the trade was unwise.
On the surface, they paid a ransom for a rookie WR. Yet after only one year in, it's WAAAAY to early to say who came out ahead.
Having said that, you can bet your last nickel I'd do that trade again in a heartbeat. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The author is an idiot. Jones was one of the very best players in last years draft. He will be a top receiver for the next 10 years or so. Regardless of how important the position is, Jones will help the falcons for a long time. AS of right now, I would give the edge in the trade to atlanta. I'm looking at this from the longterm, and I think Atlanta got the best player, over Little, and Taylor. If Heckert could turn that 22 pick into another good player, than the browns may get the last laugh, but as of now, I think atlanta got the better end of the deal.
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Flash over substance. for that pick, we have the opportunity to add 3 or more very good players in this draft and in the last draft. As you said, there is a certain dependence on what we get this year for the 22nd pick.
I'll take our side of this every single day.. But I do agree, Jones is a helluva ball player and I'd love to have him...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hell of a price to pay for a #2 receiver lol. Cut it, slice it spin it anyway you want but you don't trade all of that for a #2 receiver. he may be a number one on other teams but in atlanta he is the #2 option.
He had 2 questions coming in. Hands? Durability? After this first season both are even bigger questions as well as concerns.
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And 21 pretty good players with an average QB gets you nowhere.
Tell that to the 49ers and Saints
~Lyuokdea
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It's one game.
If the Saints don't turn the ball over 5 times, they win going away.
The 49'ers also don't win that game without Smith playing out of his mind. It is possible that he has taken the next step towards becoming that franchise quality player ..... however, if he has, it is an extremely rare occurrence.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i don't know. ravens and 49ers still in it. eli is 2nd tier QB, not elite.
#gmstrong
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i don't know. ravens and 49ers still in it. eli is 2nd tier QB, not elite.
Have you been watching him?
If he's not Top 5 then we should expand the first tier to whereever he is...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Look at Eli's performance in the 2nd half of games this year .... specifically in the 4th quarter. If he's not elite, then he's one half step below. He is clutch as clutch gets.
He was 4th in passing in the NFL this year, behind Brees, Brady, and Stafford. He passed his team to the NFC Championship Game with a huge win over last year's Champs.
He's also potentially on his way to his 2nd Super Bowl. He has won one so far .... same as Peyton ..... if he wins a 2nd ....... then I think that you can make a case for him being at least as good.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Eli we see today, is not the same Eli of a couple of years ago.
He has matured as a QB now and is far better than the Eli that won the SB.
Going forward, he is probably better than his more famous brother.
Yes it happens, QB's can get better with time. The same thing happened with Brees.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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The Eli we see today, is not the same Eli of a couple of years ago.
He has matured as a QB now and is far better than the Eli that won the SB.
Going forward, he is probably better than his more famous brother.
Yes it happens, QB's can get better with time. The same thing happened with Brees.
Amazing, isn't it - that a qb can get better.
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Look at Eli's performance in the 2nd half of games this year .... specifically in the 4th quarter. If he's not elite, then he's one half step below. He is clutch as clutch gets.
Yes he is.. but the reason this is an issue is because he is extremely pedestrian in the first half and that has to count for something right? He has as many 4th quarter TDs as he has in quarters 1-3 combined.
So I will give him his due for being clutch in the 4th quarter but in my own highly unofficial book, he doesn't get to be elite until he starts to play all 60 minutes consistently.
yebat' Putin
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Julio Jones trade - another
viewpoint of why it was bad for
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