Mourg, on the one hand you say tannehill has been the browns target all along, but on the other hand you say heckert wouldn't draft a WR that high. What gives?
It is just their philosophy in that receivers can be found later. Now a guy like Green, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgeralds are rare and if you have a chance you grab them but 2nd level guys you can get 2nd and 3rd round unless you are Mangini or Butch Davis.
The 2nd tier guys and I include Edwards, Julio Jones, Blackmon, are not worth the high investment. Generally, they are more likely to bust or be Quincy morgan journeyman types, than to be, what you are paying for.
RG3 has the worst footwork I've seen from an otherwise successful and accurate college QB. Because he doesn't use his lower half well he does not throw with good velocity.
My stance on his arm strength has evolved though after a throw of his in his bowl game that was very very good. I think he'll be a below average arm strength starter year one and could progress to be a slightly above average guy in the future.
Quote: It is just their philosophy in that receivers can be found later. Now a guy like Green, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgeralds are rare and if you have a chance you grab them but 2nd level guys you can get 2nd and 3rd round unless you are Mangini or Butch Davis.
The 2nd tier guys and I include Edwards, Julio Jones, Blackmon, are not worth the high investment. Generally, they are more likely to bust or be Quincy morgan journeyman types, than to be, what you are paying for.
I disagree, that you can find #1 go to type WR out side of the first round. There are exceptions, but those are very far and few in between.
Everyone is so fixated on size these days and that's a big reason for the bust rate of WR. Just because a prospect has the size that teams look for in a WR, this doesn't mean that prospect will have the other 'more important attributes' of a successful WR.
I find it very amusing that the so called experts (who are not always right) can speak of nothing else when talking about justin Blackmon weaknesses. Well some also say that he doesn't have elite speed, but that has been shown to be not the truth. He runs a 4.4 40: and yet is most always not given credit for his actual time. Whereas Richardson runs in the 4.5 40: range and yet is given credit for running in the 4.4 range ... What gives here?
I say screw the dam 40: times and let the film speak for itself.
If you want an example of why the sticking with McCoy is not a winning move just take another look at the Titans game last year.
It's not so much that he lacks arm strength, but rather arm strength endurance. ( McCoy that is.)
When I re watch half of that Tennessee game, because the Browns are not on in Columbus for most of the games and I have little chance to get stuff to watch during the off season ( again, The Browns are not on in Columbus that often.) If that is not a statement on needing a new quarterback what can be?
When I re watch part of that Tenn game, I get so frustrated, I'd take ANY, ANY , I'm talking trade a 1st round pick for T. freaking J. Yates frustrated, ANY strong armed quaterback just to give them a shot.
I re watch that Tennesee game ( Colt disappeard for the whole game?) You read scouting reports on players, defensive linemen who disappear , take plays off, take a whole game off, but the starting quarterback?
I re watch that game, I get so frustrated, I think Josh Freaking Cribbs can be a better Quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given a whole season would win more games.
NOt just to continue to Bash on Colt, but Tannehill has the arm strength and Colt, well he's got alot of problems, ONe of which is his Height, it is not a big deal until you start to think...
why , Why does the Qb's launch point from any pass have to be 17 yards behind the line of scrimmage,? Why , Why does the ball have to travel 20 yards through the air for a 5 yard pass completion? Why, Why does the Qb shotgun 7 yards deep, and take a 7 step drop? Even if he's got a 3 man wall, and no pressure, the center and both guards have locked up any up the middle blitz or pass rush from the defense.
Then I think, it is because he is not tall enough and cannot play insde the pocket.
You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, OR, Christian Ponder, or another quarterback with something similar to those two, and what you'll find is? Well I'm starting to think, if You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, it won't take 3 weeks into the regular season before he clearly takes the job from McCoy.
But again. I don't know what the hades I'm talking about. You can't coach height. You can't coach speed.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Quote: Mourg, on the one hand you say tannehill has been the browns target all along, but on the other hand you say heckert wouldn't draft a WR that high. What gives?
Quote: If you want an example of why the sticking with McCoy is not a winning move just take another look at the Titans game last year.
It's not so much that he lacks arm strength, but rather arm strength endurance. ( McCoy that is.)
When I re watch half of that Tennessee game, because the Browns are not on in Columbus for most of the games and I have little chance to get stuff to watch during the off season ( again, The Browns are not on in Columbus that often.) If that is not a statement on needing a new quarterback what can be?
When I re watch part of that Tenn game, I get so frustrated, I'd take ANY, ANY , I'm talking trade a 1st round pick for T. freaking J. Yates frustrated, ANY strong armed quaterback just to give them a shot.
I re watch that Tennesee game ( Colt disappeard for the whole game?) You read scouting reports on players, defensive linemen who disappear , take plays off, take a whole game off, but the starting quarterback?
I re watch that game, I get so frustrated, I think Josh Freaking Cribbs can be a better Quarterback than Colt McCoy, and given a whole season would win more games.
NOt just to continue to Bash on Colt, but Tannehill has the arm strength and Colt, well he's got alot of problems, ONe of which is his Height, it is not a big deal until you start to think...
why , Why does the Qb's launch point from any pass have to be 17 yards behind the line of scrimmage,? Why , Why does the ball have to travel 20 yards through the air for a 5 yard pass completion? Why, Why does the Qb shotgun 7 yards deep, and take a 7 step drop? Even if he's got a 3 man wall, and no pressure, the center and both guards have locked up any up the middle blitz or pass rush from the defense.
Then I think, it is because he is not tall enough and cannot play insde the pocket.
You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, OR, Christian Ponder, or another quarterback with something similar to those two, and what you'll find is? Well I'm starting to think, if You bring Tannehill onto the Browns, it won't take 3 weeks into the regular season before he clearly takes the job from McCoy.
But again. I don't know what the hades I'm talking about. You can't coach height. You can't coach speed.
Yeah, but did you watch the game again?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
It shouldn't be a question of if Tannehill is a better QB than McCoy... it should be about whether or not he's a franchise QB. QB is one position where it's not just good enough to be an upgrade, I'd need serious conviction that the guy I take has good odds to be a star if I'm going to take him at #4. If not, wait until next year for a brand new QB class.
Since the last "elite defense" champion in 2002, these are the names of the QBs who have won Super Bowls: Manning(s), Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger. That's it. The only way I'm taking a guy in the Top 5 is if I think he is likely to one day join those ranks. I'm sorry, but I just don't see that in Tannehill. MAYBE Roethlisberger at best in a perfect scenario but even then, it's not worth the risk at #4 because the odds of that are remote.
Honestly, I'd be flabbergasted if the Browns viewed him in the same light the Tannehill lovers do. We tried to trade 3 1st round picks + extra for RGIII. If we had any conviction at all that Tannehill is a franchise QB, why wouldn't we have just sat on the sidelines and taken him at #4 while saving all those extra picks?
Thankfully this will be all over soon... I don't know how much longer I can deal with the notion that our front office might be angling to make a huge mistake.
Quote: Thanks for the post. The kid is special. Gonna be hard for the QB gurus to take a pass on the kid.
You don't think they already passed on him when they effectively said that it was worth two #1s & more to be able to draft RGIII instead? I'll bet you if Barkley had declared this year, that RGIII offer would have never been made...
Quote: save it for when the Dolphins pass on him too
Ahhhhh....I've said that for two weeks now....Every year a QB falls in the draft, & gets passed on bye all the teams the experts predict will grab him up if he's there, This year it's Tannihill, so many questions....
I don't pimp QBs very often. The last QB that I actually truly believed in was Cutler. I feel Tannehill is just the perfect fit for this offense and this regime. He doesnt have to learn the WCO language. He will have much of our playbook already down pat before he takes his first rep.
he has a year and a half as a starting college QB under his belt and is going to go top 10. The only flaw to his game is experience and folks that is the easiest thing for a player to acquire. just have to let him play. I would put him in there and let him gain that experience.
If we don't no big deal, we suck for another year and hope we suck bad enough to get a decent QB.
yeah, I know, my post was sarcastic. we both have our views on him and at this point I do not expect them to change until we see him play on Sundays.
you focus on the system he played in and the fact he can and did make NFL throws in that system. I focus on that he struggled against any decent college pass defense, he fell apart when things went poorly, and was generally inconsistent compared to other college QBs we are discussing (not to mention his release point, etc - but that stuff can be more easily fixed).
if we draft Tannehill, then I hope like heck I am wrong. if we don't, then we'll all move on.
The Browns couldn't have done more in terms of an evaluation on Tannehill. He was here for two days and went through a private workout with us in Berea. Everyone has had a chance to get to know this guy.
If he's not the pick I will be shocked. Honestly shocked.
Top end tools. Top end smarts. All the size and athleticism you could ask for.
The other options:
Richardson - stiff looking to me and can get caught from behind. Plenty of good RBs in draft. Claiborne - not elite size, speed and we have a very good CB already. Blackmon - not elite size, speed and might be a headcase Kalil - do we draft a RT at 4 overall?
I'm telling you I fully expect Tannehill to be a Cleveland Brown next week.
Any one of Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne, or Tannehill won't shock me. They will be met with varying levels of disappointment (ascending from left to right.)
What about the part where Tannehill had the seventh-highest completion percentage in his conference? What about him folding in the second half? What about him throwing an unpressured middle screen to a LB for a pick-six?
Trent Richardson has never been caught from behind, going all the way back to pee-wee football according to him.
What is "elite size" for a corner? He's one inch shorter and 4 pounds lighter than Champ Bailey.
Blackmon has elite run-after-catch ability, which is the primary skill for a WCO WR along with catching and getting open. 232 catches, >3300 yards, and 38 TDs over the last two seasons say he can do that.
I think Richardson's best case scenario is to have a career on the level of Ray Rice and Maurice Jones-Drew.
Excellent backs that do not have elite top end speed. I would enjoy watching either of those players playing for the Browns.
Claiborne and Kalil both should be valued lower for us because we have a very good CB1 and a HoF LT.
Blackmon I like a lot. More than most here. But he has question marks that are obvious. Character concerns, DUI, and does not have elite athleticism at the position. I have compared him to another WR that I love in Hakeem Nicks. Would love to have him on the Browns.
Bottom line is a top end QB who has years of experience in the same very complex offense that we run.
Top end, really? I want my top end QB to be able to start day one. Tannehill cannot start day one.
Yes, he has years of experience in this offense. But he only started 19 games. His years of experience are nothing compared to someone like Andrew Luck, who was a quarterback in the west coast offense for four years.
Not as complex at all. But I can guarantee you Luck knows a whole bunch more than Tannehill. I was watching the Gruden/Luck QB camp show and thinking to myself, "Luck was the perfect fit."
I have seen more than a few people state that if H&H select a QB in round 1 and especially at 4 that they are tied to the success or failure of that guy. If they are going to tie themselves to a QB do people really think Tannehill would be that guy? They have the luxury right now to build this team up around the QB and the Built in excuse that they went after a guy and couldn't swing it and can stick with McCoy for a year to see how he does and if need be get their guy next year. They can say they didn't have Tannehill rated in the top of their draft and wanted to go in a different direction than Weeden and no one can argue. They put themselves in a much better position if they need a guy next year for him to be successful than to draft a guy this year and play him with a 1/4 to 1/2 of the guys around him being rookies or second year players.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I think it is 4/24. And after watching it I will wonder to myself, "Why isn't Tannehill going #1?"
Gruden makes all of these guys look like the best QB's ever (besides Kellen Moore and Case Keenum). Is it good TV? Yes. Should it be used as an evaluation tool? No.
On a side note, Gruden called Case Keenum "Cam" multiple times.
Quote: Top end, really? I want my top end QB to be able to start day one. Tannehill cannot start day one.
Yes, he has years of experience in this offense. But he only started 19 games. His years of experience are nothing compared to someone like Andrew Luck, who was a quarterback in the west coast offense for four years.
That is why Luck will go #1 and Tannehill will go #4. Tannehill really has a little over 1 year as a starter. He needs time under center. I start him and allow him to learn as he goes.
I don't give a lot of weight to the fact that we tried to get RG3 so can't have any interest in someone else. Just cause you bid higher on something and end up with your next pick doesn't mean you don't think it's an upgrade, it just means you thought your odds were better trying to get what you thought was the best.
The cost difference is huge, even if we spend our 4th on a QB. I love the fact that he can show the WR how to run a route properly cause he did that very well for two years. He has more starts than Sanchez had and I would trade the Jets back for what we got for Sanchez. It might take a little more time but if the braintrust thinks he has IT, then I'm all in where ever they take him.
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