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Anyway you want to look at it, unless we have an ungodly defense (which it doesn't look like is going to be anytime soon). In order for us to win alot of football games were going to have to find a quarterback. We may not get another shot at landing a true franchise quarterback in a long time. If Russell or Quinn are there i say we bite the bullet for a year, groom them and actually have someone legit behind center for once. You can make arguements for mediocre quarterbacks on here forever, (hell we've been doing it for years) but as hard as it is to admit for some, Charlie isn't the guy. Sure he could be if we had a 85' bears, '01 Ravens defense but that doesn't look like thats going to be the case. Thomas would help alot, but at some point were going to have to find a quarterback.
Hopefully that is sooner than later.
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Just clicking... What's this about?  Browns | Leach visited team Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:57:54 -0700 Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans) has visited with the Cleveland Browns. KFFL
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Just clicking...
What's this about?
Browns | Leach visited team
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:57:54 -0700
Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans) has visited with the Cleveland Browns.
KFFL
just to tell vickers that he still has to work his butt off... he is our starting FB though.. i bet he's prettty happy..
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Just clicking...
What's this about?
Browns | Leach visited team
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:57:54 -0700
Ralph Vacchiano, of the New York Daily News, reports restricted free-agent FB Vonta Leach (Texans) has visited with the Cleveland Browns.
KFFL
just to tell vickers that he still has to work his butt off... he is our starting FB though.. i bet he's prettty happy..
Don't worry, he's not gonna leech any of Vickers' playing time 
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lol... 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Now having quipped about it, you know damned well that 3rd round comparison an't gonna fly *L*
Why not  The comment has been made several times around that Frye was a third (instead of a first) round pick for a reason. So either that statement is true (thus making the same statement true about Schaub) or it's not true about Schaub, which means it's not true about Charlie. Which one do you think it is bro?
BTW this post is not directed just at you, but at everybody in this thread.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If it comes from Clayton then it is wrong for sure!
I don't know about that. He was blasted on here a couple of months ago about something and it came true. Of course, no one owned up that they were wrong.
It is a little disturbing that two different "insiders" have now reported the same news. 
BTW: The St. Patty's Day theme is clever, but it's hard to read and extremely annoying. Get rid of it.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Bg, I said pretty much the same thing on another thread,,
Don't know if it's true,,,but it sounds right
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Now Clayton is reporting that Lerner wants Quinn and the Browns might trade places w/Detroit to make sure they draft him.
I'm 100% convinced that the Browns are leaking this stuff in order to get someone to either trade with them (and give up the store) or cause another team trade with Detroit to get Quinn... that way, they can take the guy they wanted all along,, and I really do believe that it's Joe Thomas,,
It took a while for us to be in a position to get this Oline right... we are there, and I'm convinced that Savage isn't stupid enough to waste it..
We will see in about 42 days or so...lol
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It took a while for us to be in a position to get this Oline right... we are there, and I'm convinced that Savage isn't stupid enough to waste it..
I hope you are right and won't regret making the above statement.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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BTW: The St. Patty's Day theme is clever, but it's hard to read and extremely annoying. Get rid of it.
Your'e the second poster who said that. After I logged in this a.m., the screen colours went back to normal.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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They were both 3rd rounders.....but that is as far as the comparison goes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Daman, if Thomas is there for us to take and Phil doesn't draft him, I will be extremely pissed off at him. Seriously.
gmstrong -----------------
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WHY? There must have been a reason they were 3rd rounders  The only difference is that Schaub has not played much right
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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WHY? There must have been a reason they were 3rd rounders
Sure there was. Frye peaked and looked good at a crappy football school like Akron and Schaub was still learning his craft at a school like Virginia against much tougher competition.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Frye peaked alotta runners peak as soon as they learn to lace their own shoes. 
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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WHY? There must have been a reason they were 3rd rounders
Sure there was. Frye peaked and looked good at a crappy football school like Akron and Schaub was still learning his craft at a school like Virginia against much tougher competition.
Reach,stretch. Stretch,reach......................
Face it Peen. He was never the starter
Once a QB becomes the starter,their competition can see enough of their tendancies,a teams strengths and weaknesses to "game plan" to defend them. At that point,often times,they don't look quite as impressive.
Or did that only apply to Holcomb?
Last edited by PitDAWG; 03/17/07 08:24 AM.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Ya know, I keep seeing that floating around the board, and I have to say this: Shaub has tools that Holcomb never had. Holcomb only got a shot because Couch failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
But the overwhelming similarity is that both these QB's were severely overhyped based on very limited playing time.
I've watched Schaub play and while I thought he did a decent job there was absolutely nothing that made me say "Wow!". He looked good because he did things well that Vick didn't (much like Timmuh and Holcomb again).
Schaub may be the single most overrated QB in the entire NFL right now and anyone who overpays for him will be hurting once they figure it out. If we were talking about a 3rd round pick for him I'd be indifferent, but suddenly this guy is worth moving from #3 down to #10??!!
Why don't we just sign Drew Hensen to a $40 million dollar contract?? As I recall the Cowboys wasted a 2nd rounder in trade for him 
Frye........ Rooting for the hometown guy is great and I wish him success but he doesn't have the tools to take over a game. He hasn't lost us games but he's never going to win us games by himself either. At some point he's going to have to be replaced and the way to do it is through free agency.
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Or did that only apply to Holcomb?
What does Holcomb have to do with it?? The only reason Holcomb came into the picture is because he was out best option.
If I was starting a team and could select any qb I wanted, it wouldn't be Holcomb. I only wanted him because he was the best we had.
Pretty simple.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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VERS...
i don't think the trade-down question applies if Thomas is there...that would be dumb, barring a Ditka-ike offer...but such a trade would be a very good move if Thomas goes to Detroit...we still could easily pick Peterson OR Quinn at 3...and Bucs still want Calvin at 4...so there would be teams very interested in our pick, IMO...and if JT is gone, i'll take 4 (top10,2,2,QB) quality starters over 1 elite starter and 1 quality starter (top5, 2) any day of the week...
Browns fans are born with it...
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What does Holcomb have to do with it?? The only reason Holcomb came into the picture is because he was out best option..
I meant that as in refrance to aquiring Shcaub. A QB who has ever been the starter,we have no idea how he will look once oponents have enough film on him to game plan around his strengths and weaknesses. That's the point I was making in my previous post. Sorry I didn't clarify that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm beginning to think this is pretty simple guys...
There's 5 ELITE prospects here...
Quinn
Russell
Thomas
Johnson
Peterson
After that their starting the 2nd flow of talent...Adams/Anderson/Branch are NOT ELITE...
Simple equation...U can't MISS when at 3 in any draft...So we will STAY PUT and get a Potential STUD...Or go down just far enuff to where we still end up with a Potential STUD...And by my calculations...THAT'S THE FIFTH PICK...
Dropping completely out of the Top 5 in this draft for a 2nd rounder is not that smart...
The 7 or 8 or 10 pick with a 2nd 2nd rounder doesn't make sense...U LOSE a Potential STUD for an OK player in one with 2 OK players in round 2...These guys are round 2 for a reason...Bottom line is...
WE MUST STAY IN THE TOP 5......
Go Browns!!!
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Peterson is elite... thats what the Browns need.. the FO needs to see that..
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your beginning to sound like ozzie82!!!
georgefostergeorgefostergeorgefostergeorgefostergeorgefoster
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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your beginning to sound like ozzie82!!!
georgefostergeorgefostergeorgefostergeorgefostergeorgefoster
George Foster is a good solid offensive linemen... the lions will be happy with their new BULLDOG!!
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Quote:
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It took a while for us to be in a position to get this Oline right... we are there, and I'm convinced that Savage isn't stupid enough to waste it..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope you are right and won't regret making the above statement.
I hope so also Vers,, I really hope I'm right,,, not that it matters, but I think I am..
And Lamp, I'll be right there beside you unless he drops down and picks up a bunch of picks this year and next.. there would be reason to think about it then...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DinD...
disagree...i could list tens of top3-5 picks that don't stud out, and picks in the top10 that outperform them...in most any draft...but i won't b/c you know it's true...yes, there's a dropoff after the first 5 in terms of what their ceiling could be...but what good is a high ceiling if you never reach it?...1-2 of those top5 will bust/underperform...history says so...so if you ask me which is better after 2 round of this draft...
Quinn(i know that's your guy along with JT)
Blaylock
or
Branch
Blaylock
Aaron Ross/Marcus McCauley
Shaub/Carr
it's scenario #2, hands down...
i have to L at the idea that this year is not the year to trade down, while other years have been...well, you need a team to want to move up...and in other drafts, there hasn't been such a clear distinction between say prospect 5 and prospect 6, so teams weren't really willing to make such a jump...this year, it SEEMS there are...we'll see...so to say that the 1 year people have a reason to trade up must mean that we shouldn't agree to it is flawed logic, IMO...
carrying that logic further...it's clear to those w/o permanent homer glasses that we will not be a playoff competitor this season...no matter who we draft/sign...so, the chances are we go into the 08 draft in the 5-15 range...IF all those guys work out (no doubt a BIG IF), by that first scenario, we've got major holes at NT and CB vs the second scneario, we've got a minor hole at QB (even if Carr/Schaub do ok, their not gonna stud out)...i simply see that 2nd scenario as a better option for the 2007 Browns...
Browns fans are born with it...
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It is a little disturbing that two different "insiders" have now reported the same news.
Yes it is ....and I´m 100% with your rationale Vers....no [censored] QB-tradedown if Thomas is there at 3...I don´t know why but I have a bad feeling, I don´t think Savage will draft Thomas....but IF he "has to" or wants to draft a QB please do so without wasting 1 or 2 first day picks for it...I´d be the 1st calling for his head if that happens
I´m all for the "smokescreen theory" and hope Daman and others are right....I hope Savage is trying to set up TB who might fear we trade down and they miss on CJ....imagine that perfect draft day scenario: Thomas there at 3....OHH, we trade down with TB for their late 2nd rounder (Colts pick) so they can secure CJ and we get Thomas...and have another 1st day pick....wouldn´t THAT be great?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Peterson is elite... thats what the Browns need.. the FO needs to see that..
The number you have reached is no longer in service. Please be sure you are calling or dialing the right number..............
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Sure there was. Frye peaked and looked good at a crappy football school like Akron and Schaub was still learning his craft at a school like Virginia against much tougher competition.
and neither guy has had enough time to prove OR disprove themselfs against the same NFL talent. IMO why give up the number 3 pick for a move sideways?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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The 7 or 8 or 10 pick with a 2nd 2nd rounder doesn't make sense...U LOSE a Potential STUD for an OK player in one with 2 OK players in round 2...These guys are round 2 for a reason...Bottom line is...
Sorry man, but many times players picked in the second rounds (and later) stud out while sure fire picks flop. It happens every single year (yes every single year) in the NFL. If somebody offers us the farm (two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder) IMO we need to [censored] it up. We are not one or two players away from being a top team, and we still need all the good players we can get our hands on.
 The word s.n-a.t-c.h is censered
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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If somebody offers us the farm (two 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder) IMO we need to [censored] it up.
Is Suck censored???...*L*
Well no [censored] Sherlly...That's exactly what I say about a 2nd rounder not being enuff to move...
Also...U and Dna both...Your ELITE talent is in the top 5 this year...Many years it's in the Top 3...Sometimes only TWO...NEVER is there a Potential STUD in the 2nd round...I'm talking where these guys are rated...Not after 4 years in the league...
Go Browns!!!
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[censored] I know that will be sencered where guys will be RATED. The good GM's earn their money on drafting good players. Be it round one or round seven. Anybody can name second to seventh rounders who have panned out to be much better players than the top ten draft picks over the last 20 years. Thats where Phil earns his money.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Here I go quoting Boomer Esiason again: " A young QB improves the most between his first and second season" So, during this coming season either Frye "gets it" or he doesn't. But there are other factors involved in whether or not to stick with Charlie for another season.
to quote other posters:
"neither Shaub nor Carr apper to be an obvious upgrade over Frye"
So, why take the chance of dilly dallying with the #3 pick to get either one?
" we may not get another shot at landing a true franchise QB for a long time"
That is why it would be hard to pass on Russell or Quinn if either is still sitting at #3.
I see the stars and planets lining up for the selection of Brady Quinn at #3 , and Charlie starting for another season. If Charlie does well ,which IS possible, he can be used as trade bait or kept around for awhile in case Quinn is a flop. Dorsey will be cut to make room on the roster and Anderson will be #3 on the depth chart. OTOH Phil might have Quinn rated much lower than #3 overall which negates this prediction.
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Here I go quoting Boomer Esiason again: " A young QB improves the most between his first and second season" So, during this coming season either Frye "gets it" or he doesn't.
His second season was last year. He started as a rookie and started all of last season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Here I go quoting Boomer Esiason again: " A young QB improves the most between his first and second season" So, during this coming season either Frye "gets it" or he doesn't.
His second season was last year. He started as a rookie and started all of last season.
Exactly. And Frye did not improve and maybe even regressed. I just don't see Frye as a starter in this league, a capable back up, yes but not a starter.
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In response to- there must be a reason as to why Frye and Schaub were 3rd rounders. What was the reason Romo was a 3rd rounder? What was the reason Brady was a 6th rounder? Because teams saw these players as projects that take longer to develop into starters and more importantly less likely to be a franchise QB. I dont think Frye was picked up in the 3rd to be starting in his second year. It took Tony Romo 3 years learning from the same system as a backup to be the player he is today...a Pro Bowler that took Dallas to the playoffs. Romo used his time on the bench learning from the sidelines and sharpening his skills in practice.
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Romo used his time on the bench learning from the sidelines and sharpening his skills in practice.
And Frye has been thrown into the fire to learn on the fly.. There is growing pains involved,, yet some seem to feel as if he's a finished product at this point and will NOT get any better. I wonder if they would have said the same things about Romo.. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wonder if they would have said the same things about Romo.. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
I don't know....I hadn't really paid attention to Romo since he isn't on my team. I might have, I might not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't think Peterson is as "ELITE" as is presented on many Browns fans minds.
There is a "risk" factor involved with Peterson - enough not to make him elite.
There are 4 Elite players...Russell, Quinn, Thomas and Calvin.
Those are the 4 said to be coveted by teams to pay what must be paid to move up in this draft.
And to get into the top 4 to get one the FAB 4 will cost a lot more than the Chart!
I don't see that same elite desire for Peterson.
Actually if we don't take Peterson like many Bogus Draft sights had us taking...he could/should drop all the way down to Buffalo.
"ELITE" should not be overused. Peterson is not elite. Peterson will not be desired to move up and pay a steep price to get type of player as the FAB 4.
Sorry there is no FAB 5 in this draft.
I know I will hear it from all the Peterson humpers...but Just telling it like it is
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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