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You will never keep others out of our country until you make our country not worth living in for anybody.



This is the most telling comment in your whole soapbox rant.... because we are on our way there.




Heading there, but we are still a destinaton for others to get here. And instead of punishing them and deporting them when we find them, we basically slap their wrist and let me go. Heck, we even bend over backwards to help them out.

Look at L.A. when they want to stop towing and imponding illegal immigrant's cars if they are found driving without a license. They want to let them get someone with one to drive it home. However, if you ever had a license and get caught doing the same thing, they'll impound your car. So in L.A. it's better to never get a license and just drive anyways, because after all there is no real punishment to do so. Of course, they are doing this because it is a "hardship" on their family. Their family shouldn't be here to begin with and it shouldn't be easy to live here illegally. I understand that we simply cannot deport them all, but why in the world are we making it easier for them to stay here? This is sending a message to tell others to come here because there is really no punishment to do so.




I live in LA. I'm a lawyer here. You have absolutely zero idea what you are talking about.




"OH I'm a lawyer in LA! I know more than you!" Then you care to enlighten us with your "facts" and say why I am so uninformed.

Los Angeles Police Commision approves Car Impound Changes. And BTW, the unlicensed drivers in the story, normally are illegal immigrants. They ar not some teenager who hasn't got their license yet. And, the key words in this article is "Drivers who caused an accident, were previously stopped without a driver's license or who had their licenses suspended or revoked would not qualify for leniency." which basically means if you have ever got a license to begin with and follow the law in that aspect, you do not qualify. And, how are the police going to keep track on how many times a person with no legal documentation got pulled over for driving without a license? Do you really believe they will be able to maintain a database like that?

But please if I do not know what is exactly going on, then please tell me why I am so wrong instead of just claiming that I am with nothing to back it up.




I deal with the LAPD, with car impounds, and with charges for driving without a license, with a restricted license, and with a suspended license, every day. Every day. I'm in court on these issues every day. Every day. My knowledge on this subject has nothing to do with some inherent superiority LA lawyers have. I'm not going to research and quote the California Penal Code, the Department of Motor Vehicles and Los Angeles Police Department policy guidelines for you. I'm wasting enough time just typing this.

The way people are tracked who have "no legal documentation" who get arrested for driving without a license is by this amazing new techonology we call fingerprinting and photographs. You'd be amazed how accurate it is. And yes, they do maintain this database. It's pretty simple.

I'm not interested in proving anything to you. Please feel free, however, to put down the mercury news and just contact the California Department of Justice, or any practicing criminal lawyer in the city of los angeles who cares to waste some time with you.




Now with this new program, do they actually take fingerprints at the scene or what? It's not like they are actually arrested in the strict sense of the word.. Whenever I got a traffic ticket or anything, I was handed a ticket that said either pay the fine or show up in court. If they are taking actual fingerprints at the scene, I'd be impressed, bt that still will not detour them from just getting back in the car and driving again.

Last edited by ~TuX~; 05/09/12 04:46 PM.

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I put a face, a white face, on the problem. You don't see each of these peoples faces, or the faces of their families, and you assume that they run over here and just suck our government resources without contributing anything. Your assumption is based on misinformation and generalization.

Who cares how they get here. they're here, they're working, they own businesses and pay taxes, they contribute to the social programs that citizens use. I know plenty of immigrants who came in the dead of night in the back of trucks who pay taxes and have never used welfare, unemployment, or medicare. They have no family in their home nation. They have been here for 20, 30, 40 years. They support their elderly parents here and don't use medicare, even when they are eligible. But yeah, sending their kids to public school is bringing down the economy.

Californians pay much more in federal taxes than we get back. So a lot of these illegals are paying for the rest of the country to get services they themselves are not even eligible for.

You see someone who could be your relative in the guy I represented who had a drug problem and was rehabilitated. It doesn't seem fair what is happening to him, because it isn't fair. The same is true for the uneducated brown person who's first language is Spanish. He just doesn't seem as familiar to you, and it's easier to kick someone who doesn't remind you of you.

Maybe you're not racist, maybe you are. I don't really care. But your position on illegal immigration lines up perfectly with racists.




That first paragraph you wrote goes well with the article in the first post of this thread, in that it doesn't agree at all. It's a specific example of illegal immigrants sucking money out of the system to the tune of $4.1B. Are you going to try to argue that illegals pay into the system more than they take out? I HIGHLY doubt that. I also find it curious that a lawyer is talking about putting a face on a problem. Justice is blind.

You talk about illegal aliens contributing and paying into taxes and all that good stuff. I'm sure there are plenty of examples, but simply, those are the exceptions. I have a buddy, Jorge, who is an engineer that immigrated from Mexico into the US. He's an immigrant (not an illegal alien) who pays his taxes and came here legally. I don't think it's an over-simplification to say that, in general, immigrants pay their taxes and all that jazz, while illegal aliens do not.

Actually, you know who cares how they got here? My buddy Jorge, for starters. I'm sure you can figure out why he feels like this, but a tip is that he did everything like he should, paid what he needed to, struggled through all the inefficiencies and incompetence of the government agencies he needed to deal with, and got the documents he needed to get. Then somebody else can just sneak across, and still enjoy all the same stuff he does (if not more) without much consequence.

You say there are plenty of folks that come here illegally and contribute. Well my response is that there are more that come here, don't contribute a dime, have 8 kids at UCLA medical center for free, and don't work a day in their life because they live off the system. Pow, generalization, right back at you.

My federal taxes didn't change enough for me to notice when I moved here from OH. CA state taxes are BRUTAL, though (probably what you meant). I usually get a couple hundred bucks back from Federal, but give it all back x2-3 to CA. Regardless, to take this and argue illegals are paying back into the system is just silly.

That line about my (and others') position about illegal aliens being the same as racists is a gross generalization. I'm pretty sure I'm not a racist, but I also don't want people here that aren't supposed to be here. I don't care who they are, where they come from, what they came with, or how they got here. I don't think they should be here. They also know they shouldn't be here, and they know there is a risk to coming here. Them coming here illegally and getting caught can have some tragic consequences, but they knew that when they came here.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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For a lawyer you must not be that busy because you are on a Browns message board in the middle of the day arguing about immigration, talking about Avengers movies and what the strip of land by the street is called.




No i'm busy, just also lazy and procrastinating.

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For a lawyer you must not be that busy because you are on a Browns message board in the middle of the day arguing about immigration, talking about Avengers movies and what the strip of land by the street is called.




I actually question if he is who he says he is,,,




You know, it's always a mistake on an anonymous chat board to bring your personal life into it. It was a lazy way to make my point. I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.

And please understand, I am very troubled and worried that you, anonymous person, are questioning whether I'm really a lawyer. In fact, your lack of faith in me is actually causing my law degree to dissolve before my very eyes.

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I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.





No kidding. It's a shame most of the uneducated folks here fail to realize how wrong they are and how foolish they come across trying to debate someone of your extreme intelligence. I'm just appreciative of the fact that someone with your intellectual and political acumen would take the time to try and reach some of them.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.





No kidding. It's a shame most of the uneducated folks here fail to realize how wrong they are and how foolish they come across trying to debate someone of your extreme intelligence. I'm just appreciative of the fact that someone with your intellectual and political acumen would take the time to try and reach some of them.




Thanks for noticing, bro. I do what I can for the little people.

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Thanks for noticing, bro. I do what I can for the little people.




...unless they're white US citizens.


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I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.




You would have to start by ignoring yourself then.


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For a lawyer you must not be that busy because you are on a Browns message board in the middle of the day arguing about immigration, talking about Avengers movies and what the strip of land by the street is called.




I actually question if he is who he says he is,,,




You know, it's always a mistake on an anonymous chat board to bring your personal life into it. It was a lazy way to make my point. I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.

And please understand, I am very troubled and worried that you, anonymous person, are questioning whether I'm really a lawyer. In fact, your lack of faith in me is actually causing my law degree to dissolve before my very eyes.




You tried to call me a racist and you think I'm uneducated? Dude.. I don't believe for one second you are an attorney.. I don't believe a word you say.

Not one word..


#GMSTRONG

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For a lawyer you must not be that busy because you are on a Browns message board in the middle of the day arguing about immigration, talking about Avengers movies and what the strip of land by the street is called.




I actually question if he is who he says he is,,,




You know, it's always a mistake on an anonymous chat board to bring your personal life into it. It was a lazy way to make my point. I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.

And please understand, I am very troubled and worried that you, anonymous person, are questioning whether I'm really a lawyer. In fact, your lack of faith in me is actually causing my law degree to dissolve before my very eyes.




You tried to call me a racist and you think I'm uneducated? Dude.. I don't believe for one second you are an attorney.. I don't believe a word you say.

Not one word..




OK. Not sure why you think attorneys are all so alike that they don't include the entire cross section of humanity. But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs, more power to you.

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I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.




You would have to start by ignoring yourself then.




Good one! Did you come up with that all by yourself?

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Thanks for noticing, bro. I do what I can for the little people.




...unless they're white US citizens.




Naw, I lend a hand to those little peoples too.

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For a lawyer you must not be that busy because you are on a Browns message board in the middle of the day arguing about immigration, talking about Avengers movies and what the strip of land by the street is called.




I actually question if he is who he says he is,,,




You know, it's always a mistake on an anonymous chat board to bring your personal life into it. It was a lazy way to make my point. I should have just ignored people making arguments which are obviously uneducated and wrong.

And please understand, I am very troubled and worried that you, anonymous person, are questioning whether I'm really a lawyer. In fact, your lack of faith in me is actually causing my law degree to dissolve before my very eyes.




I would argue that responding to someone you don't know and calling them racist (that seems like your go-to response), and/or uneducated would be the lazy way out.

That line about your law degree dissolving was pretty hilarious, though.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.


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I would argue that responding to someone you don't know and calling them racist (that seems like your go-to response), and/or uneducated would be the lazy way out.




And you would be right. It's lazy. Might also be true.

I call myself racist and uneducated quite a bit. There are plenty of times I find myself being racist and there is no shortage of things about which I lack an education. I just don't have much patience, I suppose, for people who think they're above being called out on the bigoted and/or uneducated things they believe. Just because the constitution guarantees you the right to spout stupid stuff, doesn't mean some jackass like me can't call you out on it.

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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.




So here's what I don't get: it's pretty obvious I'm arrogant, self-important, mocking and disrespectful, and I get off on telling other people what they should think. What about that makes anyone believe I'm not a lawyer?

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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.




So here's what I don't get: it's pretty obvious I'm arrogant, self-important, mocking and disrespectful, and I get off on telling other people what they should think. What about that makes anyone believe I'm not a lawyer?



Actually that makes you the perfect lawyer.. I have no idea why people questioned that you were a lawyer.. I didn't question it.


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Just clicking...

What would Jesus do?


Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!

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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.




you forgot about the part where he refused to actually link to anything that backed up his opinion, but made sure he said it was there.


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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.




you forgot about the part where he refused to actually link to anything that backed up his opinion, but made sure he said it was there.




I think that goes more in the lazy category more than the arrogant category. But good point. I just can't figure out how to link directly to my magnificent brain.

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Just clicking...

What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.

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Man, I'm just in a chippy little mood this morning. I hope none of you get too insulted with my mocks and jabs. In all seriousness, I have GOT to do some work now. Check you all later this evening.

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What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.




Well I'd be good with giving them all amnesty too if I could take one man's lunch and feed 1000 people with it.


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Man, I'm just in a chippy little mood this morning. I hope none of you get too insulted with my mocks and jabs. In all seriousness, I have GOT to do some work now. Check you all later this evening.




You thought those were mocks and jabs???? Is your father Medmann???


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Just clicking...

What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.




Well I'd be good with giving them all amnesty too if I could take one man's lunch and feed 1000 people with it.



If he could turn that nasty Mexican water to wine, most of them wouldn't come here in the first place.


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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.




So here's what I don't get: it's pretty obvious I'm arrogant, self-important, mocking and disrespectful, and I get off on telling other people what they should think. What about that makes anyone believe I'm not a lawyer?




I don't think a Smart Lawyer would purposely call someone racist. I suppose it could make you a dumb lawyer.. maybe


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when Tux remembered a specific instance of something, he provided a link backing up his story. he asked you to counter and you refused to provide a link but insisted it is there and you could provide one if you wanted to.

i don't care if that's being lazy, arrogant, etc. but, it's a cruddy way to debate and doesn't fly around here. be prepared to get called out on it.


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Just clicking...

What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.




or he'd tell those peering over the borders not to covet thy neighbor's possessions


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Just clicking...

What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.




Well I'd be good with giving them all amnesty too if I could take one man's lunch and feed 1000 people with it.



If he could turn that nasty Mexican water to wine, most of them wouldn't come here in the first place.




OK, seriously, please don't even pretend that THAT wasn't racist.

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when Tux remembered a specific instance of something, he provided a link backing up his story. he asked you to counter and you refused to provide a link but insisted it is there and you could provide one if you wanted to.

i don't care if that's being lazy, arrogant, etc. but, it's a cruddy way to debate and doesn't fly around here. be prepared to get called out on it.




I am prepared. Wait, no i'm not. Hold on. (putting on my chatboard armor). Okay, now i'm prepared.

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Quote:

Quote:

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But whatever you tell yourself to help you ignore contrary opinions to your false beliefs,



That is just dripping with arrogance.. which is probably why people are not open to hearing what you have to say.... You came to this topic as the self-imposed final definitive authority on the subject, you have mocked and ridiculed those who disagreed with you, then you want to tell other people why they should not ignore other peoples opinions... classic.




So here's what I don't get: it's pretty obvious I'm arrogant, self-important, mocking and disrespectful, and I get off on telling other people what they should think. What about that makes anyone believe I'm not a lawyer?




I don't think a Smart Lawyer would purposely call someone racist. I suppose it could make you a dumb lawyer.. maybe




Not saying I'm Smart, cause I ain't, but a lawyer purposefully calling someone a racist got OJ a not guilty verdict, so maybe it is smart.

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when Tux remembered a specific instance of something, he provided a link backing up his story. he asked you to counter and you refused to provide a link but insisted it is there and you could provide one if you wanted to.

i don't care if that's being lazy, arrogant, etc. but, it's a cruddy way to debate and doesn't fly around here. be prepared to get called out on it.




I am prepared. Wait, no i'm not. Hold on. (putting on my chatboard armor). Okay, now i'm prepared.




by the way, this internet search took me three seconds:

Fingerprint

Happy now?

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Now, seriously, I'm going to work. I'm so weak for this BS. Dawgtalkers gonna get me fired.

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What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.




Well I'd be good with giving them all amnesty too if I could take one man's lunch and feed 1000 people with it.



If he could turn that nasty Mexican water to wine, most of them wouldn't come here in the first place.




OK, seriously, please don't even pretend that THAT wasn't racist.




Ummm....OK. That wasn't the least bit racist.....seriously.


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OK, seriously, please don't even pretend that THAT wasn't racist.




How is that racist. It's well know the water in Mexico is unfit to drink.

It is well considered per the bible that Jesus could turn water into wine.

So you turn crappy water into wine, and you've given the people a sanitary beverage to sustain life. Not to mention the humorous side that is you could open the tap on your faucet and fill a wine glass, I'd have no reason to leave my house for weeks on end until the free government cheese was all gone.


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:

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Just clicking...

What would Jesus do?




Jesus would shut this thread down with the force of an F5 tornado, tell us fools to stop insulting each other, do a little more loving of thy neighbor, and pray only for the strength to do God's will.

Oh, and he'd amnesty every last illegal and open the borders wide. Of course, we wouldn't let him in in the first place: brother got no papers, no money, and no English speaking skills.




Well I'd be good with giving them all amnesty too if I could take one man's lunch and feed 1000 people with it.



If he could turn that nasty Mexican water to wine, most of them wouldn't come here in the first place.




OK, seriously, please don't even pretend that THAT wasn't racist.



It's not racist at all.. if Jesus would turn it into free beer, I'd consider moving over there. It's what some of us refer to as a joke... only in the mind of the super sensitive and paranoid is it racist to imply that Mexican people like free wine.... You seem to look for racism anywhere you can conjure it up.


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Man, I can't believe I have to do this:

Your "joke" infers that:

Mexico doesn't have clean water (it does), Mexican water is somehow different from any other water by its virtue of being Mexican (it's not), Mexicans are so dirty/lazy/stupid they can't make clean water or can't differentiate because they are substandard or they aren't capable of basic sanitation (the aren't, they can, and they are). Mexicans care more about alcohol (cue stereotypical inebriated mexican in sombrero) than about a better life for their families, education, or jobs (they don't). Mexicans are looking for something free and that's why they come up here (they aren't). Mexicans have such low character that giving away free alcohol will subdue their very real motives to come to here (It won't). Etc. etc. etc.

here's a little hint. If a joke has to specify what race is involved, it is probably racist. Also, if using a derogatory world like, say, "nasty" as an adverb to a race, like, mexican, it's probably racist.

For example, is this funny:

If Jesus could turn nasty water into wine, no one from the place where that nasty water is found would ever want to come to the United States.

That's just stupid, right? It's both not funny and barely even makes sense. Now add in Mexican:

If Jesus could turn Nasty Mexican water into wine, Mexicans wouldn't want to come the United States.

If that version is funnier or makes more sense, it's because it is funny or makes sense based on a racial stereotype. I can't do this every time guys. You're going to have to start figuring these things out on your own. Hope this helps you stop being as racist. It has helped me, because I'm also racist sometimes.

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Quote:

You seem to look for racism anywhere you can conjure it up.




Your assertion that i'm "conjuring up" racism aside, try this if you aren't afraid to open your mind:

For one week, just one out of your whole life, look for racism anywhere you can. conjure it up if you have to. do it for a week. If you're truly serious about it, you'll see how ingrained racism and discrimination are in our civilization. I'm not asking you to live that way, its unbearable, annyoning, and depressing. I'm not asking you to not find racist jokes funny, or to ignore truth in streotypes. I'm just saying, for one week, look for it everywhere you can.

We learn to ignore racism in its subtler forms because we don't want to feel guilty about being the benficiaries of discrimination, because we don't want to believe we and our parents are bad people, and because life is nicer if it doesn't exist. But its there. I promise you, its there.

You think I look for it everywhere I can. Maybe I do sometimes. But it is just as true that you actively look away from it everywhere you can, whether you are conscious of it or not.

Man, I rant a lot, don't I?

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It has nothing to do with the race of Mexicans but the country of Mexico. Even back in the early 90's only about 50% of the country's water supply was treated/purified. Since then they have stepped up and spent money on better water treatment.

It had nothing to do with the race of people but the poor water treatment in heavily populated areas. It happens to all races. Go watch the documentary on How Beer saved Civilization to get a clue.


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It has nothing to do with the race of Mexicans but the country of Mexico.




Uhhhh. What? So if I say America is arrogant, you wouldn't think I'm talking about Americans?

I hate to break it to you, but Mexico is populated with Mexicans (which aren't even a race, technically, but whatever).

And maybe I'm just obtuse, but I don't think the point of that comment originally was based in the idea that we might stem the flow of illegal immigration if we improve drinking water in Mexico. It wouldn't take Jesus to do that.

Thanks for the tip about beer saving civilization, though. Always looking for clues.

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