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Since we're not gonna spend in FA in the offseason, and we don't have much in the farm system, what exactly is going to be this organization's selling point for next year?

I can't wait to hear it.

50 cent beer night could be right around the corner.

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current estimates post-arbitration players is around $45mil payroll. if we trade Choo in the offseason (likely), then it is around $35mil payroll + whatever we get back at the MLB level (most likely cheap young players).

the Dolans have shown that their median budget is around $65mil opening day payroll.

I don't expect a Josh Hamilton signing, but I do expect a few $7-$10mil players on 2-3 year deals.


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The Rays and A's have horrible attendance because they both have horrible stadiums. And people in Florida might not like to got to baseball games (look at the Marlins attendance in their new stadium).

Quote:

try to maintain continuity with turnover rate higher than a fast food restaurant.




MLB teams maintain control over players longer than any of the other major North American sports. It is also becoming more and more likely that younger players sign long term extensions buying out a couple of their free agent years. That means players will be on their teams for around eight years.

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Incompetence fails to justify why the MLB lacks a hard salary cap.





Everyone in MLB makes tons of money. The owners, the players, the agents. Hard to argue a system is broken if everyone is getting what they want.

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Quote:

current estimates post-arbitration players is around $45mil payroll. if we trade Choo in the offseason (likely), then it is around $35mil payroll + whatever we get back at the MLB level (most likely cheap young players).

the Dolans have shown that their median budget is around $65mil opening day payroll.

I don't expect a Josh Hamilton signing, but I do expect a few $7-$10mil players on 2-3 year deals.




Yay more Casey Kotchman type players!!

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Quote:

current estimates post-arbitration players is around $45mil payroll. if we trade Choo in the offseason (likely), then it is around $35mil payroll + whatever we get back at the MLB level (most likely cheap young players).

the Dolans have shown that their median budget is around $65mil opening day payroll.

I don't expect a Josh Hamilton signing, but I do expect a few $7-$10mil players on 2-3 year deals.




What they need to do is pack it in, and really build for the future ... Nationals/Marlins style. Unfortunatly, that will cause people to just rage at the ownership/front office for being cheap. So instead, they'll end up throwing out a few $7 million contracts on players that will be feast or famine, and hope they hit on all of them ... instead, we'll likely just continue to tread water.

Out here in San Diego, they just got a new ownership group the past few days, and already the local talking heads keep mentioning how a new ownership means they'll start pouring money into payroll. Yesterday, one of the new owners already started tempering expectations by saying they wouldn't be going hog-wild in free agency, but they'll spend some money if they see a match. Translation ... I don't think anything is going to change.

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Kotchman was a $3mil - 1 year deal type player.

$7mil type players are the JoshW's, Kubel's, etc.
$10mil type players are more likely the middle rotation pitchers (Edwin Jackson's, etc.)


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You're nuts if you think the Indians are dropping $30 million on quality players this offseason. They're going to play the "you didn't come to games so we don't have money for players" card. Plus they'll be paying the balance on the contracts that Manny and his staff have after they're all fired, on top of what they'll have to pay the new staff.

A loss tomorrow against Texas (damn near a sure thing) will give the Indians 24 losses in a month for the first time since 1918.

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not sure I said quality. i don't trust Antonetti. but, I do expect them to spend $$$ to get probably into the upper $50mil area for payroll.

some of that will likely be buying out arbitration (and hopefully a year or two past) for some of our youngsters (Kipnis, Asdrubal, etc.). but, I do expect us to dip our toe into FA as well.

we could go the 2009 route of just taking a $45mil payroll into the season, but that isn't the SOP for the team the past few years. and, the FO saw how it has killed attendance. So, I think they go the middle road, sign a few middling guys and try to sell the fans on that.

I also don't think that's enough to do anything real in 2013.



potential FA targets for this offseason to get a feel of what I'm talking about:

BJ Upton (if he doesn't get a big offer on potential and settles for a contract worth his numbers - definitely would be playing the "name-game" with him)

Angel Pagan (more likely)
Carlos Lee (on a short contract - he's old)
Joe Blanton
Kevin Correia (though I don't like him)
Ervin Santana
Randy Wolf


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I would blow up it up entirely. Get rid of Perez, Asdrubal, Choo. I would even considrer getting rid of Masterson, depending on what you could get for him. Even if we get a few players in free agency, it still won't be enough to contend. This group has shown the past 2 yrs, they can't last a 162 game schedule. Just start from scratch, and rebuild the farm system. But I don't want Antonetti in charge. He would have to go with everybody else..

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DETROIT -- The off-field drama continues for Indians closer Chris Perez.

This time, Perez made comments about team ownership and the front office, which were published Wednesday in a FoxSports.com article.

"Different owners," said Perez when asked why the Detroit Tigers have been able to find success and the Tribe has not. "It comes down to that. They [the Tigers] are spending money. He [Tigers owner Mike Ilitch] wants to win. Even when the economy [in Detroit] is down, he spent money. He's got a team to show for it. You get what you pay for in baseball."

Perez made comments about the front office as well.

"It's not just ownership," Perez said. "They don't make trades. It's the GMs. It goes hand in hand. ... Josh Willingham would look great in this lineup. They didn't want to [pony] up for that last year. That's the decision they made, and this is the bed we're laying in."

The Indians, who went 5-24 in August, are in fourth place in the American League Central behind the White Sox, Tigers and Royals.

"While we work to understand various perspectives, we strongly disagree with Chris' comments," Indians general manager Chris Antonetti said. "Nonetheless, we are not satisfied with our recent results and our entire organization remains committed to fielding winning teams and that is the standard by which we will continue to operate."

It was not the first time Perez, an All-Star this season, has been outspoken this year.

He was fined by Major League Baseball in April for a message posted on his Twitter account following a bench-clearing incident against the Royals. On May 19, he spoke about Cleveland's low attendance at Progressive Field and riled up Indians fans. In June, The New York Times published an article in which Perez criticized the NFL's Cleveland Browns' fan base. And on Aug. 18, prior to a game in Oakland, he had a confrontation with an A's fan.

Asked about the comments he made to FoxSports.com, Perez declined to say anything more.

"That's all online, right? Well, there you go," he said on his way out to batting practice prior to Wednesday's series finale against the Tigers.

Indians manager Manny Acta said he had not seen or heard what Perez said during his pregame session with the media. After being informed of what he had said, Acta replied: "That's his opinion."

"We all have different DNA's. We just have to live with each other," Acta said. "You deal with it the best way we can.

"I really don't pay attention to much of that stuff. What really concerns me is that in the ninth inning, when he needs to save the game he comes in and gets it. The rest of the stuff we handle internally."




Link

Do you think he knows that closers are the most easily replaceable parts of a baseball team (see: Rodney, Fernando 2012)?

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I would imagine he knows exactly that.

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J/C

Cleveland Indians' 'Zombie Baseball' turns them into a dead team walkin'

Thursday, September 06, 2012
By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer


MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. — Could it have moved to a different team? The Yankees, perhaps.

The Indians just won a three-game series against the Tigers and are 3-2 in September. The Yankees, meanwhile, have been run down and cornered in the American League East.

Or is Zombie Baseball strictly an Indians curse? And has it disappeared into the mist and darkness with its mission accomplished?

Hard to say, but for 33 games in 36 days, it lived and festered in Chief Wahoo's soul. When it fled -- and no one really knows if it's gone for good -- it left a season in ruin and a franchise in as vulnerable a state as when Dick and Dave Jacobs purchased it in 1986.

"It's over with," catcher Lou Marson said of the stretch of terrible baseball. "We have to put it in the past, but it definitely wrecked our season."

On July 26, Carlos Santana and Travis Hafner hit consecutive home runs off Detroit's Justin Verlander to erase a 3-1 deficit on the way to a 5-3 victory. The Indians were 50-49 and 3 1/2 games out of first place in the AL Central.

Then the trap door opened and the Indians dropped through it. Zombie Baseball -- mindless in the field, on the mound and at the plate -- took over.

The Indians lost 28 of the next 33 games through Aug. 31. Immediately after the big win against Verlander and the Tigers, they lost 11 straight, one short of the club record. After going 5-24 in August, in which they tied a franchise record for the most defeats in a month, including additional losing streaks of nine and six games, they were 55-77 and 17 1/2 games out of first place.

The speed of the fall was shocking.

"I've never been through a month like this anywhere . . . minor leagues, winter ball or in the big leagues as a coach or as a manager," Tribe manager Manny Acta said.

Maybe more surprising than the swiftness of the descent was that there was still one team below the Tribe in the division when the free fall finally slowed. From July 26 through Wednesday, Kansas City went 20-18 to climb past the Indians into third place. But Minnesota went 16-23 to keep a death grip on the basement.

"No one wants to finish last," Acta said.

The fall damaged the Indians so dramatically because they had no equity in their won-loss record. The 2011 Indians knew about equity. On May 23, they were 30-15 with a seven-game lead in the Central. Their subsequent fall wasn't complete until September and they still managed to finish second because of their strong start.

This year, however, the skid hit when the Tribe was 50-49.

"Unfortunately, the month dictated our season," Acta said. "We were close, but it wasn't like we were 10 games ahead. When you're playing just around .500, you just can't afford to have a month like we did."

During those 33 games, the Indians managed to win consecutive games once. Why couldn't someone apply the breaks?

"Why is the sky blue?" closer Chris Perez said. "There is stuff you can't answer. It was bad baseball. That's the easiest way to say it."

A scout from another big-league team, who saw Zombie Baseball at its height, said: "When you start losing games in bunches, players overextend themselves. Position players start trying to hit five-run homers and pitchers try to strike out everybody instead of just playing the game. That's what I saw with the Indians.

"I think they also have to make major changes in their pitching program. I didn't see any adjustments being made. They brought Ubaldo [Jimenez] over there to be an ace and now he's a No. 5. What's going on with that?"

Pitching coach Scott Radinsky was fired on Aug. 9 after the losing had been temporarily stalled with a victory over the Twins a day earlier. Ruben Niebla, pitching coach at Class AAA Columbus, replaced him on an interim basis.

Radinsky wasn't the only victim. Derek Lowe was designated for assignment Aug. 2 and Josh Tomlin was placed on the disabled list with a sore right elbow Aug. 13, then had Tommy John surgery nine days later. That ended the line for two of the five starters who opened the season.

When the season ends, there could be more casualties -- with Acta, General Manager Chris Antonetti and President Mark Shapiro being reviewed by ownership.

During the stretch of Zombie Baseball, the starters went 5-21 with a 7.58 ERA (134 earned runs in 159 innings). No. 1 starter Justin Masterson went 4-4 with a 7.00 ERA (35 earned runs in 45 innings). No. 2 starter Ubaldo Jimenez went 1-7 with a 7.48 ERA (36 earned runs in 431/3 innings).

The bullpen, meanwhile, has pitched the second-most innings in the big leagues since the All-Star break.

"This game is all about pitching," Acta said.

Meanwhile, the Indians' hitters offered no comfort to their pitchers. They were outscored, 215-105, barely averaging 3.2 runs per game over the 33 games. They hit .222 (242-for-1,089) as a team and .195 (45-for-231) with runners in scoring position.

The four hitters who have carried the Indians much of the season were mostly silent during the skid: Jason Kipnis .170 (17-for-100), two homers, eight RBI; Asdrubal Cabrera .240 (29-for-121), two homers, nine RBI; Shin-Soo Choo .223 (27-for-121), three homers, 13 RBI; and Michael Brantley .257 (29-for-113), two homers, nine RBI.

"No one thought it would last that long," Kipnis said. "I doubt anyone on this team has ever dealt with a streak like that.

"But it absolutely builds character. When you can say you've gone through that, some of the lows don't seem as low anymore."

That's a good thing because who knows when Zombie Baseball will strike again?

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/09/cleveland_indians_zombie_baseb.html

***********************
If I had a sig, this might be a good one ...


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Well, the Indians are now officially in the cellar in the AL Central.

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<sigh>


[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

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I know a of people are down on Chris Perez but I can't disagree with most of what he says....Dolans are cheap and our front office can't draft. It's not hard to figure why they suck


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Even if what he says is true, it doesn't mean he should say it out loud. Especially to people who have pens and paper (or a keyboard and a monitor).

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j/c

bigdat, I tried to warn you. hopefully, it helped soften the crash to reality on McDonald.


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You certainly called it, smh. Stupid sports (said while I kick a stone down a dirt road in the rain)

And it's just big d for future reference.


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Wait, you mean that for almost six years I've thought it was "Big Da Tut" or "Big Datut", when all this time it's been "Big D at UT"?

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haha, yep.

Big D @ UT.


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