DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns in process of being Sold Part II

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I highly doubt we see the stadium named "Flying J", or Pilot, or anything he has anything to do with.

Stop and think about it: Naming rights are nothing but a way for a team to pocket some cash. Why would he transfer money from one of his pockets (flying j), to one of his other pockets (the browns).

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It happens quite a bit. In fact, there's already one sports arena in Cleveland doing the exact same thing.

Cleveland Cavs play in the Quicken Loans Arena....Quicken Loans is owned by Dan Gilbert....Dan Gilbert owns the Cavs.....see the circle there?

And heck, wasn't Wrigley Field named after the dude that owned the team and the Wrigley gum empire. Cross promotion at it's finest. And to think, when the recent Cubs owner hinted he might sell the naming rights the fans were close to rioting....too bad they didn't realize the stadium is already named after a corporation (albeit, a long time ago).

They are buildings, that's all. The team is what matters (...having one, that is. We all know the feeling of our Browns being stolen. Colors, wins/loses, stadium naming rights....who cares, they're ours to watch and enjoy - or complain about).

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Perfect example, thanks.

As much as I like the cav's (no where near like many on here), I'm sure not gonna get a quicken loans loan.

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Perfect example, thanks.

As much as I like the cav's (no where near like many on here), I'm sure not gonna get a quicken loans loan.

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Perfect example, thanks.

As much as I like the cav's (no where near like many on here), I'm sure not gonna get a quicken loans loan.

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Think in terms of money saved on advertizement.

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Let me ask you this. What you would you do if you just dropped a billion dollars on something that required employees to run it? I know what I would do. I would put people that I am comfortable with and that I believe are competent in place.

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How competent are the new owners? Will they be able to put competent people in place? I'll admit everything I've read seems positive on this front. You don't build the business they've built without some level of competence. The other question is how well do they know Heckert? How comfortable with him are they? Do THEY believe he can do the job?

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Truth is they probably have people in mind already for all the positions. I know I would if I were about to drop a billion bucks.

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And for those that believe they will keep Holmgren AND Banner I just don't see where that makes any sense at all. These guys are successful businessmen. I can't imagine they keep Holmgren at $8m/year when Banner can do the same thing.

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Shurmur may get a stay of execution as well as Heckert if the record is there.

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But my biggest fear is the record is 4-12 and they completely blow it up all the while the product on the field is actually pretty decent and is just a young team growing up but you can see are ready to take the next step.

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Fear is a huge motivator. But if you let it carry your imagination too far, you could even start a war with it and cause a lot of people to die with no just cause.

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Heckert is the best thing to happen to this franchise in 20 years. But they will look for a reason to get there guy in there. I would. The difference is I trust me.

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And when you start replacing the Pres, GM, and coach ... make no mistake...that's a rebuild. Something I don't really have the stomach for anymore.

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You "ASSume" that a "total rebuild" is on the way. Yet Banner has many of the people he knows and who has worked with already in place here. If Shurmer looks no better than last year, what have we lost?

If Holmgren is gome and we still have Heckert, what have we lost? Are you afraid we might get better? You certainly couldn't be fearing we will get worse?



So you go ahead and live in that fear. But unless you somehow feel that Banner can rob Phillys coaching staff and FO, or that Haslam can rob the Steelers coaching staff and FO, who are these people they have worked with and can have faith in to bring here?

I don't doubt that if Shurmer doesn't make it to .500, he is gone. I wouldn't doubt that Holmgren may be gone due to financial reasons.

But if you honestly feel that given Banners experience and Childress proven winning abilities, combined with Haslams glowing comments about these past couple of drafts is some indication, that these two are somehow instantly waving good-bye?

I'm not sure you're all that much in the know about business. You fire those you don't feel are doing their jobs. You keep those you feel are doing an excellent job and those you feel can improve the situation.

These guys aren't from many different teams. Banner has only Philly to draw experience from. Some of his "Philly buddies" are already here. Haslam expects production as a business man and has already raved about our drafts. So to me, he has already given Heckert a thumbs up to a great degree.

We have a former HC already here, who BTW worked in Philly himself, and has taken a team to the playoff three times and once to the NFC Championship game.

So you stick with "your fears" and I'll look at the evidence at hand. I'm much more comfortable with that than I am with fear....

JMHO

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Actually, what he said was that this was a marketing driven league and he wouldn't rule anything out. But that winning is where he's pointed.

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Exactly. There will be lots of new ways to get the fan base to spend money created! And let's face it, had the answer have just been "no", that would have been SO easy to say. But he didn't.

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I see new unis, same color, but new style. I don't see a logo on the helmet.

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Really? I TOTALY disagree!

If the helmet stays the same, how can you drive the fan base to buy all new gear? I mean if every Browns jersey, jacket, helmet or shirt is exactly the same, what is the motivation to go out and buy new ones?

It's all about marketing.....

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I see CBS renamed Pilot or Flying J stadium (unless stadium naming rights were one of the four things that Randy Lerner specifically damanded that weren't revealed outside of the team will NOT be moved)

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So Haslam is going to pay himself for naming rights to his own teams sradium? How would that generate revenue? I could see some banner space inside the stadium maybe, but those naming rights are big bucks to be made.

I could see something more like Verizon Stadium, Coca Cola stadium or some very solid national company you are sure won't be going broke any time soon.

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I would imagine people that work for him know what he expects from them very clearly.

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Actually, what he said was that this was a marketing driven league and he wouldn't rule anything out. But that winning is where he's pointed.

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Exactly. There will be lots of new ways to get the fan base to spend money created! And let's face it, had the answer have just been "no", that would have been SO easy to say. But he didn't.


we agree

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I see new unis, same color, but new style. I don't see a logo on the helmet.

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Really? I TOTALY disagree!

If the helmet stays the same, how can you drive the fan base to buy all new gear? I mean if every Browns jersey, jacket, helmet or shirt is exactly the same, what is the motivation to go out and buy new ones?

It's all about marketing.....

yup all about marketing, but we've not had a logo, our orange helmet has actually been our logo. I could see a C or CB or something like that on there, but hopefully not an elf or dawg type thing. As for the colors, no, I don't believe he'd move from Orange and Brown. I don't see that. I don't believe he'll move from the colors. I see some new designs perhaps. but we'll stay orange and brown.

Clearly the man knows the value of tradition but that doesn't mean he'll change colors. Just use them differently. That I can see. I can even see Brown helmets with Orange Stripes or white helmets with Brown and Orange strips but not neccesarily down the middle. Tons of variations come to mind.

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I see CBS renamed Pilot or Flying J stadium (unless stadium naming rights were one of the four things that Randy Lerner specifically damanded that weren't revealed outside of the team will NOT be moved)

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So Haslam is going to pay himself for naming rights to his own teams sradium? How would that generate revenue? I could see some banner space inside the stadium maybe, but those naming rights are big bucks to be made.

I could see something more like Verizon Stadium, Coca Cola stadium or some very solid national company you are sure won't be going broke any time soon.




Going broke,, kinda reminds me of the first name of the Ravens Facility.. what the heck was that company that went bust?

Upon further review, you might be right, but don't be fooled by thinking that it's just him paying him. his primary business is the Flying J/Pilot facilities. Building that brand isn't completely out of the question either. just unlikely since it's pretty much the premier brand in that industry anyway, so I tend to agree with you on that one.

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I would imagine people that work for him know what he expects from them very clearly.

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As it should be. Do your job, do it well. Because everybody can be replaced. I want results, not excuses kinda guy. Considering what we've seen, I think that's what we need.

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Experts say Browns sale looks like fair deal


The Cleveland Browns reportedly have been sold to Jimmy Haslam for more than $1 billion, and experts say it’s a fair deal for all involved, with room for Haslam to get a good return on his investment in the future.

“I think it’s right where you’d expect it to be,” sports economist Andrew Zimbalist said of the sale price, of which $700 million will be paid to take over controlling interest and another $300 million to close the deal.

“The typical revenue multiple in NFL is around four,” said Zimbalist. He estimated the Browns’ revenue at $250 million per year, which would put the sale price right in the predictable range.

The sale is also on par with the Jacksonville Jaguars’ purchase earlier this year for $760 million. The Jaguars are the NFL’s lowest-valued team at $725 million, according to Forbes, while the Browns come in at $977 million, good enough for 20th in the league.

Zimbalist agreed with the Forbes valuations and the sales prices, saying, “The Browns have a better market and much better stadium. They’re certainly worth more than the Jaguars, and based upon the revenue figures I’ve seen, I’d say the sales prices are on target.”

We get a glimpse into NFL financials thanks to the Green Bay Packers, who are the league’s only publicly-owned company subject to such disclosure. Their latest financials show $171.6 million in national revenue from sources like the league’s national television deal. Since the NFL divides national revenue virtually equally between all 32 teams, we know that more than half of the Browns’ revenue comes from the league. That revenue is expected to increase in 2014, when new television contracts go into place that are 60 percent higher than current contracts.

National television revenue won’t be the only source that could bolster Haslam’s return on his investment. The Browns have several areas in which things can seemingly improve.

Despite the product on the field, the team has a loyal following. If it can get some on-the-field success with the addition of players such as recent draft picks Trent Richardson and Brandon Weedon, the team has plenty of room to raise ticket prices and increase revenue.

In 2010, the Browns had the league’s lowest average ticket price at $55. In 2011, the team was one of four NFL teams that lowered ticket prices. This year there will be no increases, and at least one area, the “Dawg Pound,” was reduced from $45 per game to $32 per game for a season-ticket plan.

The most interesting thing here isn’t the reduced prices, it’s that there are reduced prices at all. Although not sold out every game last year, the Browns did average 90 percent of capacity. They also sold 1,000 more full-season ticket packages than the previous year and more than 40,000 group tickets, a team record.

So far, things are looking good this season, as well. Within 2½ hours of single-game tickets going on sale earlier this week, three games sold out. As of Wednesday, only 1,000 seats remained for the Oct. 14 Bengals game.

Lou Imbriano, former chief marketing officer for the New England Patriots, said the Browns are leaving money on the table.

“I think there is a minimum, even in the Cleveland market, of $15 million they’re leaving on the table a year,” said Imbriano.

“I think their real upside is the fact the stadium isn’t named,” said Imbriano. “There’s an opportunity there.” Imbriano estimated naming rights could bring in $6 million to $10 million per year.

In addition, Imbriano said the Browns fan base presents untapped opportunities.

“They have a rabid following. There’s power in that. When I started with the Patriots, we were sold-out all the time and the fans were rabid. All these folks want to be a part of the team,” said Imbriano. In response, his team created opportunities and experiences both on game day and outside of the games that allowed for additional revenue.

With all the growth opportunities, it seems Haslam might be getting a good deal for his $1 billion investment.

“Even at $1 billion,” said Imbriano, “I would think there’s room to make some real money owning an NFL franchise like Cleveland.”

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National television revenue won’t be the only source that could bolster Haslam’s return on his investment. The Browns have several areas in which things can seemingly improve.

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Whoo higher ticket prices! More Kenny Chesney concerts!

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I don't think the helmet will get a logo. Changing that won't sell.

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I disagree. Oh, not right away. But if within a few years we make the playoffs and have a very solid team, which I think we will, I think we could see a scenario where he could easily tie "the new tradition of winning with a new tradition of winning and ringing in that "new era". Tying the two together under the premise of "a new symbol of winning".

Every year our fan base gets younger. I mean people with less and less ties to "the old days". While I understand your passion and I wouldn't like it, we are slowly a dying breed. Many younger fans and newer fans only think of losing when they think of "the traditon" they have seen.

And with each passing year we see more and more of them talking about cheerleaders, logos and the like. Things we see as traditions, they see need for changes. I think that trend will continue.

I don't think it would be anything flashy. I don't think you'll see anything like a dog or an elf. No, that wouldn't sell. But something more classy and understated keeping theme with all of the traditional colors. As a few examples.......







I'm not saying I like the idea, but let's face it, fans who came around only a few years before "the move" and ever since then, have a lot of negative things that they associate with our current "lack of logo". Actually, since the firing of Marty and Bernie being shipped out of town, Michael Dean Perry getting the boot, if you think about it.

This is the age group they will at some point be marketing to, not us. Look around and ask yourself, how many major sports commercials are really marketing to us? It's becoming less all the time.

At this point? If it meant having an owner and FO that makes us win, I think many fans would accept a lot right now. When I see how openly they have embraced Gordon, givien his track record, I am witnessing it for myself. Both the fans and the media would have lambasted any FO that would have brought in such a sketchy character in the past and I believe you do understand that.

In short? Please never underestimate what people will accept in order to get what they want the most. Win.... Just win.

JMHO

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Man, I really think you need to give up the whole Childress thing. I can't think of anyone with notoriety who believes he would be a good head coach. I've offered you my take on Childress before that went without a response so I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse here.

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Childress infamously cut dissatisfied wide receiver Marcus Robinson on Christmas Eve, had trouble connecting and communicating with some of his players and often came across to the public as rigid and aloof.

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Childress took over for the fired Mike Tice in 2006 after spending seven years with the Eagles, including four as the offensive coordinator. He was chosen by Wilf to instill discipline and demand better off-the-field behavior from a team that was embarrassed the year before by a bye-week boat party gone bad and a number of other legal problems for players.

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"We're grown men. He's not out there playing with us," tight end Visanthe Shiancoe said when asked on Sunday about Childress' status. "You've got to look in the mirror sometimes. We're 3-7. You go 3-7, you always want to blame somebody else. Sometimes you can't blame somebody else. Sometimes you have to focus on yourself and what you're doing wrong."

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Doesn't that sound like some of the comments by Giants players about Coughlin before he got things completly turned around with the Giants? I'll help you again...... Yes it does.

( Last three qoutes from link below)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5838652

Here's the reality and facts that we do know.

His first season 6-10... Second season 8-8... Third season10-6... Fourth season 12-4.

Yes, the bottom was falling out in his last season there and he was fired. But let's be real here. We have HC's come in here that couldn't even break .500 for three seasons and people were screaming about continuity when they were fired. Wanting them to have more time. This guy won more and more every year until his last one and got kicked to the curb for it.

You can sit there and say what you wish. But the man took a crappy team and turned them into winners. A lot of very harsh diciplinarians have had a lot of success in the NFL.

I think if you look at the name on the SB trophy, you'll see a prime example of it. So you go ahead and base your opinion on one out of five of his seasons and the fact he didn't kiss his players behinds if you so choose.

But a business man doesn't consider instilling a little dicipline and having a record of overall success a bad thing. That because a coach isn't "best buds" with his players, isn't necassarily a bad thing.

All you have to do is look at Tom Coughlin and the Giants to see an exact duplicate of the assertions and comments you see above attributed to Childress.

BTW- How is Coughlin doing now?

You're right, this is beating a dead horse. The man can coach and he has a far better record to prove it than anyone we have had coaching this team since our return.

As a matter of fact, the same things were being said right here in Cleveland about Bill Belichick. So I don't put any stock into crap like that myself...



The reason I didn't reply to your other comment is because I didn't feel it deserved to be commented upon. But...... since you brought it up yet again........

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He's already talked about the the tradition and fans.

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Along with coming from a reputable Rooney family influence. They not Some hodgepodge fly by night kind of group.

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Oh he commented about them as well.

He basicly said that he learned the recipe on how a team is built by their example of success. But when your brother is the Gov. of Ten. and you're already a marketing expert, that part of a "corporation", you already know.

Let's face it, if he knew or had no ideas of changing the uniforms, the answer "no" would have been a very easy answer to give. Instead, he seperated "marketing" and "a culture buiding a team, running a team and of winning" as two seperate things that are not the same.

Here's a link to the full transcript of what he did and didn't say. Because from your comment I quoted, you seemed to have missed some parts of it.

http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2012/08/cleveland_browns_new_owner_jim.html



Now he didn't say he would. That I am not saying. But he had every oppertunity to rule it out and most certainly didn't. So to rule it out based on his comments holds zero merrit. Actually his comments indicated that "it could happen", not "couldn't happen".

But hey, I don't make the news, I only report it.

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Well one thing I think we may wish to keep in mind.....

He has no say in Tennessees uniforms.

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New owner or not, I fully expected to see prices go up starting next season.

I could see them jump 5-10% next season. At 10% that would be $7 per seat per game. In the grand scheme of things, not a major factor, except I was thinking about getting club seats. I may wait a few more years and see where our pricing falls out.

No doubt the stadium gets a sponsor. I always thought it foolish it hasn't been named. That's big time money for the team and good exposure for some local company.

How about Sherwin Williams?? They are a global outfit headquartered in Cleveland.

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Club seats are great. Had them from 99- 09. You'll probably have to pay a PSL on them and also there is a club charge was like a grand a year but when we got them if you signed a long term contract they had written in how much they can raise your prices by every year and a cap on the total increase across the term and length of the contract.
I believe it was a total increase of no more then 2% per year and 7% across the whole 7 year contract when I first got them. You may want to inquire now before they raise prices if your serious. Also get seats on the North Side of the stadium you will be in the Sun almost the whole game in late fall/winter. It makes a differance.

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But what connection does Haslam have with Banner? What made that even come up. I guess I missed that part.

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One thing I think we may need to think about. Haslam gushed over how much talent that H&H had brought in over the last two drafts.

Having said that, he said we have all the ingrediants to win and there's no reason we shouldn't win.

So to me, he gave good grades on the bringing in of talent but seemed to question why we weren't winning.

From my perspective, initially he's questioning the coaching more than anything.

JMHO

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See I don't see it that way. The key elements from the drafts by Heckert and holmgren came in this year. At least on offense. If you look at what they have done on D last year, you can see the progress was made (really a shame about Taylor, but he'll be back)

You can't judge the coaching on Offense (which was basically Shurmur) last season when the talent you expect to take you over the top hasn't played a down in the NFL yet.

So I don't think he's questioning coaching any more than he's questioning anything else.

It could be that he sees (and I don't know how to prove this) the same thing that many of us to see, a team that has added key elements both on the field and in the coaching staff to address weaknesses from last season.

It's really hard to argue that that is what took place.. Weeden, Richardson, scharwtz, Gordon and O coaches he brought in. Childress alone is a solid addition but throw in Cromwell and you can see the moves that were made to clean up the O.

So no, I don't think he's looking any stronger at the Coaching staff then he is at anything else at this time.

But, with those weapons and coaches that were added, if the progress isn't there.. Oh yeah,, Shurmur will be under the gun if not shot by it.

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I really suspect that one of Lerner's conditions was related to ticket prices.

Lerner really did try to keep ticket prices down so that fans can afford to go to games without taking out a second mortgage. I suspect that he wants that to continue, and made that part of the deal.

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I really suspect that one of Lerner's conditions was related to ticket prices.

Lerner really did try to keep ticket prices down so that fans can afford to go to games without taking out a second mortgage. I suspect that he wants that to continue, and made that part of the deal.

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I think he something about there were 4 conditions that Randy wanted before selling the team? We know 1 was not moving them but the other 3 he said were going to remain silent. We can rule out naming rights because he has mentioned that will probably happen so I too can see ticket prices as something that was discussed.
Speculation of course but there are only so many conditions that could be directly dependent on selling the team.

Another I could see if keeping the practices in Berea and not moving them to Colubmus or something like that. We'll never know though for sure unless Randy actually says them which I dont see happening.

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