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OSU..I don't have to pretend that Jarrett Johnson is good,thats a known fact. Played for a Top 5 defense in pts allowed, vs the run, yd allowed.
He's a better run stopper than any OLB the Browns have right now.
hey if you are happy with average,then you don't mind Maiava and Gocong.
the Ravens had to let Johnson walk. Rice had to get paid. can't keep everyone.
Its a myth you overpay in free agency. I rather overpay for a player than stick with underachievers. Free agency is a good thing..ask the Niners and Bengals how its worked for them. ask the Pats.
You talk about Johnson being 30 and old,then how do you justify Jacqua Parker?
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Frostee Rucker is a depth move, and a nice one at that. I don't know if it's just being made up, but if people are thinking this guy is going to be some world-beater, than that's on them. Most sane Browns fans realize this is purely a depth move. I like the move a lot because of his familiarity in the division, but I also realize he doesn't bring a ton to the table.
As far as mocking other moves we made? You can't argue with Richardson, and I honestly don't care about people's thoughts on how RB's are a thing of the past.
Weeden? I will give you that. It's a stretch. It's a tad bit risky. It's also an upgrade.
Gordon? Again, somewhat risky, but if this guy is good, what does it matter? There is already buzz about him through a few days of training camp.
There was some risk with this, but they were calculated. There were also some very sound, very smart moves, like grabbing Schwartz who is getting rave reviews already, as well as grabbing two DT's after you lost a starter soon after.
Look, if Weeden sucks, we'll have to find another guy, but it was also an extra pick from a trade. This is not Brady Quinn part 2 where we gave up a lot in the draft as well as in the following draft. In hindsight that was an ultra-risky move that blew up in our face. This isn't anywhere near the risk. If this guy turns out to be really good it's also the steal of the draft.
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OSU..I don't have to pretend that Jarrett Johnson is good,thats a known fact. Played for a Top 5 defense in pts allowed, vs the run, yd allowed.
He's a better run stopper than any OLB the Browns have right now.
So if someone is a part timer on a good defense, that automatically means someone should pay them starter money to bring them in and that they will be good? Madden-Esqe thinking at it's best.
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hey if you are happy with average,then you don't mind Maiava and Gocong.
Gocong was playing very well when they put him in the right spot towards the end of last season, we drafted JMJ and Acho also.
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the Ravens had to let Johnson walk. Rice had to get paid. can't keep everyone.
But we should SIGN everyone according to you...
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Free agency is a good thing..ask the Niners and Bengals how its worked for them. ask the Pats.
Because Tom Brady, AJ Green, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith, Patrick Willis, and Frank Gore were all aquired by Free Agency, right?
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You talk about Johnson being 30 and old,then how do you justify Jacqua Parker?
Ones a 30 year old DE that's like the 5th or 6th DE on our team making nothing. You want to give starter money to a 30 year old OLD who is only good at run coverage...
Last edited by OSGuy; 07/30/12 04:19 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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unrelated to your post in particular...
My one worry about the Weeden pick AND the Gordon pick together...which i have really grown to like the Weeden pick...
But...If Weeden flames out big time. If he cant be our starter next year, we have put ourself in a precarious spot for next year in that if we have to take a QB, then we'll go through 2 rounds of the draft (probably very high in the draft if Weeden bombs, and then we will take a QB in the 1st and nothing in the 2nd.
The Gordon pick signals to me that Weeden HAS to be good. We're in trouble if he isnt.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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we're in trouble if Weeden bombs and it doesn't matter who else we drafted
but, even the Jaguars didn't draft a 1st round QB and if Weeden bombs as bad as Gabbert, then we all might stop posting on this board by next year
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Johnson was a starter for the Ravens. and he will start for the Chargers.
another reason why the Ravens let him walk,they have see what they have in Paul Kruger.
Johnson is excellent vs the run and thats what the Browns are lacking personal wise
The Niners acquired Justin Smith, Donte Whitner and Carlos Rogers thru free agency.
Huge factors in their playoff run. Now they added Moss,Manningham and Jacobs.
The Bengals added Lawson, Howard at LB. 2 players that helped propel their defense to a Top 10 finish. they added Nate Clements who had a solid year.
the Browns are putting alot of their eggs in young kids.
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So by that, you're stating that aquiring Gordon makes us a Super Bowl team in Holmgren's eyes THIS YEAR?
Because if he "knew he'd be gone" and wanted to "speed up the process"
Wouldn't we have gone crazy in FA trying to win NOW?
Since when do people draft Rookies to win NOW?
Is that even possible?
No and neither is going crazy in the FA market. I guess you didn't read the bulk of the post.
MH wants to leave some kind of mark on this team and I believe he also wants a future in the NFL. People in his position want a legacy left behind.
Playing Dan Snyder on the FA market would be and appear foolish. My point was.....That if and when we do become a winning team, if Weedn is our QB, Little and Gordon our WR's and TRich is the RB, then the bulk of that success will be attributed to "The team Holmgren built".
Being foolish and going out guns a blazin' trying to win now leaving your team in cap hell wouldn't have been the smart money.
I hope his plan is successful for all of our sakes. Let me ask you.....If a new owner comes in here and has one draft and we make it to the playoffs next year with this group of rookies..... Do you really think the new owner will get most of the credit? Or do you think the people who drafted the past three seasons and built the core of this team will?
That's what I was saying. Not "win now".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I don't think it was desperation in selecting Gordon.
Urgency.
Semantics.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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He really doesn't seem like the kind of guy to blow a lot of smoke.
Heckert.....or Gordon?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But let me see... last year the Bengals had a rookie QB, a rookie #1 WR, a second year TE,
So they had two, not four. If you look at the way this FO did the D we would have had two to three each year for two years. Much like the Bengals did.
I'm not saying this won't work. What I'm saying is you don't see people do a complete rebuild on one side of the ball all in one year which follds the starting line up on one side of the ball with rookies.
I know people say it all looks good on paper. And in the long run, it might. But let's face it, at the beginning, with so many rookies we are depending on, it could easily look like a total disaster at the beginning....
We would have had a few people with only one year in the system and then added a few more. But when the clock is ticking, you do what you feel you have to do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm simply stating it appears IMHO that we didn't do diddly in free agency, which means we're taking the long, developmental role in rebuilding (which I approve of, by the way) then turned right around and reached on an old QB in the draft and bought WAY high on a receiver with 3 failed drug tests, all so those two players could come in and play NOW.
One philosophy says we're taking the longer, safer road, while the other philosophy says we're taking the shorter, riskier road, and that's what has had me concerned.
Which is why some of us can only make any sense out of this with the "speculation" you speak of. 2+2 doesn't equal 6 and there had to be some motivation behind this.
I think if you have a five year plan that you sold to everyone, Weeden kind of fits into that. Sure, he can play now, but to be a playoff ready QB will usually take two or three years.
But with the Gordon move, somehow people are so distracted by "shiney new things", they can't see the forest for the trees. Could the kid be good? Yes, if he can manage to stay on the field. Something he hasn't been able to do for two years now even with chances at two schools. Many seem to wish to gloss over this like it's a non-issue or at least not a big one when the evidence dictates otherwise.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Gordon only missed one regular season of football.
I say "regular season" because the entire time he was able to practice with Utah.
Greg Little missed an ENTIRE season of football, and was a converted RB to WR...
60 catches, 700 yards, 2 tds
Just saying.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Gordon only missed one regular season of football.
I say "regular season" because the entire time he was able to practice with Utah.
Greg Little missed an ENTIRE season of football, and was a converted RB to WR...
60 catches, 700 yards, 2 tds
Just saying.
And his actions the year prior are what caused this. He came out early in the draft because due to his "third offense" he wouldn't have been playing this year either...... in the NCAA.....
Like I've said......2 100 yard receiving games and three subtance abuse violations. His violations are more numerous than his outstanding performances.
People can minimize that any way they choose but it still doesn't change anything....
And Godon said himself "It was so long ago."
If his memory is really that short, we're all in trouble...
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You said he hasn't been able to "stay on the field" for two years.
He missed last season. And will be playing this season..
That's only one season.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah, you're right. Since he couldn't even get through his Jr. year in the NCAA, the NFL saved this season for him. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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 crossies?
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What the hell,since we are going to make wild speculative theories,I've got one.
Going way out on a limb here but,maybe just maybe they were all good football players and that's why we drafted them.
No Cuban Nationals,no CIA,no mafia,no military-industrial complex conspirators,just a desire to improve a crappy football team.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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What the hell,since we are going to make wild speculative theories,I've got one.
Going way out on a limb here but,maybe just maybe they were all good football players and that's why we drafted them.
No Cuban Nationals,no CIA,no mafia,no military-industrial complex conspirators,just a desire to improve a crappy football team.
Dont bet on certain people entertaining that thought process at all. Everything was a reach, to risky, or just has to be bad with some people sometimes.
They were told we are building through the Draft and when we use draft picks to build up the team something must be up.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Nah, a kid with three substance abuse violations before he could even play his third season isn't risky or a gamble. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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He is a huge risk,one I wouldn't have taken maybe.
Heckert rolled the dice last year with Little,the year before with Hardesty and Ward,some of those turned out OK.So he went back to the well.
Maybe he's more the riverboat gambler than the conservative stuff shirt we think he is.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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He is a huge risk,one I wouldn't have taken maybe.
Heckert rolled the dice last year with Little,the year before with Hardesty and Ward,some of those turned out OK.So he went back to the well.
Maybe he's more the riverboat gambler than the conservative stuff shirt we think he is.
I still dont see what all this RISK is you guys keep talking about? What was so risky about him that any other player with his talent level wouldnt be worth a future 2nd round pick? BTW the guy looks already to be starting to really pick it up.
Are we risking the fact he may smoke weed again and get suspended thus losing millions of dollars and then do it again Ricky WIlliams style? Its a "risk" Ill take for that talent every year.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I agree it's a risk. I don't keep moaning about it.
He's on the team. Let's hope he has the game, and let's hope he lays off the reefer.
I am not too worried about him right now. This off season will be the time he might get back with his homies who talk him in to a smoke ...."Come on homeboy, ya already rich, hang with yo bros, man"
He needs to realize he has no "bros" other than his family, his team and coaches.
Money changes people. No doubt about it....sometimes for the bad, sometimes for the good. There is really no predicting how that turns out. It's simply a 50/50 guess.
My hope is he likes his future better than his current Bros.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Nah, a kid with three substance abuse violations before he could even play his third season isn't risky or a gamble.
There is risk in every pick... usually that risk is that there talent won't be what is expected... this kid appears to have the talent, the risk is whether or not he can keep his nose clean.
Not to mention, I know you Pit, once you get your claws in something, you will not relent... and right now you have your claws in the this kid... so I'm not going to go down the path of a futile debate with you... in the end, we can only sit and watch and hope he has his you-know-what together...
yebat' Putin
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I don't so much have my claws in the kid as I do the fan base that seems to think someone with this history and terrible decision making is a 50/50 proposition.
He was a HUGE risk factor with this track record. That's pretty much the extent of it. I just wish people would see it for what it is instead of sugar coating it so much. That's all....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I was the one who said 50/50....you can name me. You are still a bud. We go back a ways....10 years?? 12 years?? I know I think you're a good egg. That doesn't mean I agree with your every word. We've thrown axes before. Now, I am getting old enough to know that doesn't pay. You doing well my friend?? When are you heading to a real game again?? We have to again share a handshake and a beer.  Shoot, maybe even a hug.....a manly hug of course! 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not to mention, I know you Pit, once you get your claws in something, you will not relent... and right now you have your claws in the this kid... so I'm not going to go down the path of a futile debate with you... in the end, we can only sit and watch and hope he has his you-know-what together...
While you are correct and I find what he is doing to be annoying. Pit is no different than the other posters on here with their own separate agendas. He does bring up a legitimate point. Failing a drug test 3 times makes me feel like your an idiot with no self control. If you want to smoke, go ahead just don't get caught.
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I really don't see Heckert ever taking a DE in the top 5. Ever.
He has been pretty consistent that he feels that he can find exceptional "tweeners" that fit his profile of a 4-3 DE in the 2nd round and beyond.
He has also said that he doesn't feel that you can ever have enough DT and CB. I think that a top 5 pick would be one of these, or a QB or LT if we had a need for one. I think that these are his prototypical top 5 positions. We went RB this year only because of the perfect storm of dire need and a player with "greatness potential".
The discussion was about the team we have now...and thinking of the 2013 draft.
If we are picking in the top 5, we are not taking a QB...or a LT...or RB...or RT...or WR. We are going to give those positions time to pan out. We are loaded at DT.
We could use a stud LB...but we wont take that guy top 5.
We may need a stud TE...but we wont take that guy top 5 either.
We have potential starters in waiting at CB with Skrine and Patterson.
We think we have a starter now at FS and we should be set at SS. Our depth could be better...but I don't think we sign depth at this spot in the first round.
If there is a DE stud...absolute, checked-out stud...I think Heck better change his philosophy about DEs.
The "value" changes from 6-12th pick. But we still have a greater need at DE than anywhere else that makes sense that early. Outside of 12th or so, it's game on for any position.
My bet is we go with our highest rated DE next year with our first pick regardless of where we are slotted.
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What I think he would do is look to move down to the 10-15 spot, pick up some extra picks and focus on a top DE prospect.
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Walterfootball's 2013 Mock has us taking Barkevious Mingo, DE, LSU at #2...
Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU goes right after him. (I assume LSU will have a good pass rush this year?)
Then Jarvis Jones, DE/OLB, Georgia going 7th.
And if we can get outside the top 10 maybe Eric Reid, S, LSU would be an option...
It's July 31st and we're talking about the Draft already, Welcome to Dawg Talkers!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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LSU has 2 that won't go outside the top 5.
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Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU goes right after him. (I assume LSU will have a good pass rush this year?)
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the only player that defense lost from last year is Mo Claiborne. They are going to be nasty in the fall.
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No doubt you better be ready to stop their O because they are going to stop yours.
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Brandon Taylor and Ron Brooks as well from the secondary.
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The Texas Longhorns have 2 1st round DEs as well. Not sure if both are seniors or not.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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We'll see. Heckert has been pretty honest, and he said that he doesn't like to take DE in the first round because he feels he can find them outside of the first round.
I can see him adding a CB every year if he can. He has said that he feels that you can never have enough CBs. Same thing with DTs. Those seem to be his favored first round positions. Now if he has a chance to grab a guy like Richardson and Weeden, then he will ... depending on circumstances .... but I really don't see him taking a DE in the first round, especially not high in the first round.
I would guess that he could if we didn;t have a 2nd round pick like next year ...... but I really think that he'd move down in that case.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
I am worried about Gordon's drug use not because I think weed is some terrible thing, but because it shows a lack of discipline. However, we spent a 2nd round pick on him (not the hugest gamble). The guy seems to have the physical tools to become a legit wide-out (I've heard comparisons to Brandon Marshall). I think a 2nd round gamble on that kind of talent is not as atrocious as other posters seem to think.
The bottom line is, the guy is now a Cleveland Brown and I will cheer him on until he gives me a reason not to (another drug bust). He's on the team, so that's the only thing we can do. However, he's only 21 and I'm hoping he can stay on the straight and narrow and develop into a stud for us.
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That's been my sentiment all along. I would add to the lack of discipline, lack of judgement as well... if you know you will be tested and get caught once.. ok... twice, not very bright... 3 times? It's almost like you are trying to get caught.
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Walterfootball's 2013 Mock has us taking Barkevious Mingo, DE, LSU at #2...
Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU goes right after him. (I assume LSU will have a good pass rush this year?)
Then Jarvis Jones, DE/OLB, Georgia going 7th.
And if we can get outside the top 10 maybe Eric Reid, S, LSU would be an option...
It's July 31st and we're talking about the Draft already, Welcome to Dawg Talkers!
Hey man...you violated the discussion rule by naming names. 
(Note: Thanks for the names tho...gives me some guys to watch as I am not a HUGE college football fan.)
I did not intend for this to be a draft discussion as much as a look at what we may still need to upgrade the most and next. I certainly could have been more clear about that...I should have worded it better and to include free agents.
Anyway, if our new guys pan out, I can't imagine taking anyone with our #1 pick in 2013 who is not a stud DE and/or have a stud DE as our #1 priority in free agency.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,297 |
YTown...right now I dont care what Heckert might do in 2013.
But I'm curious what YOU might do if in charge in 2013.
1-5...what position would YOU target?
6-12?
13 and higher?
Assume we continue to not have a 2nd.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
It wasn't at me but IMO...
If we're 1-5, and there isn't a GLARING BPA NEED at our spot, I trade down, Even if it's just to pick up a 2nd. (STL got a 2nd going from 6 to 14, IMO they could of got more)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum I think the draft has been
explained.
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