I never said you hadn't claimed it, I only mentioned that I had only seen posts of your's bashing Republicans and those to the right. It was just hard to believe you would ever vote for anyone to the right of you. Granted, I don't remember all your posts, I could be mistaken. But, you certainly don't come off as what I would think of when I think Independent.
Quote: Umm .... what the hell did Republicans contribute to the healthcare law???
NOTHING WORTH A DAMN! They only threatened and fought to block it at every turn! The original Obama Health Care plan, idea or concept was a single payer system. The Republicans started there "NO" ideology about this time. Their only thoughts were to insure Obama's failure to pass meaningful health care reform. They wanted him to be a one term president and if they had to sell us out to do it they would.
It's this attitude along with the quality of the Republican leadership and candidates that has me voting against them. You simply can't let the inmates run the asylum... *SEE THE BUSH PRESIDENCY FOR PROOF
Quote: Let me preface this by saying that I voted for Bush and Obama.
That was all I needed to read. Sadly, nothing else was of any consequence whatsoever.
And, no, I'm not a Ron Paul supporter either. I like his views of economics (Austrian school) but most of everything else he espouses reminds me of this.
Rowe Vs. Wade... settled the abortion issue. BUT some extremist Republicans don't except that. I know I would struggle with the decision if I were a female in that position... BUT I'm a man, and I'm not in that position. What right do I have to interfere with her life in anyway? Now that fetus is a living being as well, I agree... but Rowe Vs. Wade... settled the abortion issue and it is the law of the land. What's next for American women under Republican rule??? Burkas? GMAB
Quote: Umm .... what the hell did Republicans contribute to the healthcare law???
NOTHING WORTH A DAMN! They only threatened and fought to block it at every turn! The original Obama Health Care plan, idea or concept was a single payer system. The Republicans started there "NO" ideology about this time. Their only thoughts were to insure Obama's failure to pass meaningful health care reform. They wanted him to be a one term president and if they had to sell us out to do it they would.
It's this attitude along with the quality of the Republican leadership and candidates that has me voting against them. You simply can't let the inmates run the asylum... *SEE THE BUSH PRESIDENCY FOR PROOF
Uh, okay ... so did Dred Scott v. Sandford settle the slavery issue back in the 1800's?
It *is* possible to change things the Supreme Court rules on. They've overturned themselves quite a bit in their long history. On abortion, you're already contradicting yourself ... saying that fetus is a living being and you don't have the right to interfere with some woman's life, yet somehow she has the right to completely interfere with that fetus' life? The Dred Scott ruling said that slaves were considered property, and not to be viewed as actual US citizens ... at some point the Court saw the error in their ways and decided that they were in fact people, and deserved the same rights as regular citizens.
At any rate, why are we even discussing this? Republicans have pretty much done eff-all when it comes to banning abortions since Roe v Wade.
While I agree with some of his criticisms of the Rebublican Party (You know, being an Independant and all myself ) ... his critisicm of the Democrat party was pretty much, "You let the Republicans win!" ... you know despite having a congressional majority and the presidency and everything.
Quote: Rowe Vs. Wade... settled the abortion issue. BUT some extremist Republicans don't except that. I know I would struggle with the decision if I were a female in that position... BUT I'm a man, and I'm not in that position. What right do I have to interfere with her life in anyway? Now that fetus is a living being as well, I agree... but Rowe Vs. Wade... settled the abortion issue and it is the law of the land. What's next for American women under Republican rule??? Burkas? GMAB
Wow.
Do you waddle? When you go to say something does "Quack" come out. If you prod the front of your face do you notice a beak?
Quote: Umm .... what the hell did Republicans contribute to the healthcare law???
NOTHING WORTH A DAMN! They only threatened and fought to block it at every turn! The original Obama Health Care plan, idea or concept was a single payer system. The Republicans started there "NO" ideology about this time. Their only thoughts were to insure Obama's failure to pass meaningful health care reform. They wanted him to be a one term president and if they had to sell us out to do it they would.
It's this attitude along with the quality of the Republican leadership and candidates that has me voting against them. You simply can't let the inmates run the asylum... *SEE THE BUSH PRESIDENCY FOR PROOF
Once more, the Republicans could do nothing to amend, change, stop, slow down, or do anything else as far as Obamacare is concerned. They could not stop it with a protest, they couldn't stop it with filibuster, they couldn't do anything except complain about what was in, and not in the law, because they did not have the votes to do anything at all.
That's it.
The Democrats were the ones who amended their own law because ordinary people didn't want a single payer system. It was polling at a horrible level. Actually, people didn't even want Obamacare period. People wanted Congress working on jobs. Why do you think that Democrats lost so overwhelmingly in the next Congressional elections?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: When have I ever claimed not to be independent... As for all my post about the "Occupy Movement"... I can't stand the Tea Party Extreme here... So any chance to stir the pot is good for me.
An Independent, chooses to vote for the person they feel best represents them, and does not vote based on a party... I may lean left, I may even like liberal pinko commy beliefs... BUT I'M ABSOLUTELY AN INDEPENDENT.
Don't worry about it. around here, SOME people are quick to label people based on a few comments. it's one of those things, if they don't like the message, they shoot the messenger.
There are still people on here that blame Obama for all that ails this country but turn a blind eye as to what got us here in the first place.
As you correctly pointed out (by the way, I voted for bush twice and Obama also), Obama has failed us on so many issues. too many mistakes, too many promises broken. very disappointing and like you, I do put some of the blame on the Republicans, but Obama didn't control his own party enough to build concensus. instead he let them go like a run away train.
so, when you correctly point out that the Republicans put up a lame nutjob for president and try to sell him to us as "The Guy" to right the ship, it's a joke,
And Obamas campaign trying to tell us that things ARE better, that's another joke.
But you watch, because I just called Romney a Nut Job, I'll get attacked and they will completely forget that I called Obama a failure as well.
And they'll completely forget what party and what president was on the job when this mess started and who made the first of the Many bailouts that took place and who he bailed out and that those same folks are still out there gouging the hell out of the common family.
The establishment on this board is conservative,, as am I from a fiscal standpoint,, but you watch, someone will say I'm liberal because I didn't take Obama to task and support, without question, Romney.
it's gonna happen..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Rowe Vs. Wade... settled the abortion issue. BUT some extremist Republicans don't except that. I know I would struggle with the decision if I were a female in that position... BUT I'm a man, and I'm not in that position. What right do I have to interfere with her life in anyway? Now that fetus is a living being as well, I agree... but Rowe Vs. Wade... settled the abortion issue and it is the law of the land. What's next for American women under Republican rule??? Burkas? GMAB
Wow.
Do you waddle? When you go to say something does "Quack" come out. If you prod the front of your face do you notice a beak?
Can I give you a piece of advice?
You're a Democrat.
So when someone with liberal tendencies criticizes the right then they must be a Democrat? Is it not possible for liberals to feel that the Democratic Party fails to represent their views? There's plenty of conservatives that are independent and don't agree on everything with the GOP, must they be GOP-by-default?
Unless you are selling the Tea Party snake oil, some of the brain washed zombies on this board WILL NEVER CONCEIVE A LOGICAL THOUGHT. So communication with them has to regress to name calling and third grade tactics... Heldawg has cooties.
.." I understand the ideology, and many on the right are quite smart, but their underlying economic approach and math does not work for me. " .........................................................................................................
Ok , I can understand that / don't agree , but understand !
Quote: Unless you are selling the Tea Party snake oil, some of the brain washed zombies on this board WILL NEVER CONCEIVE A LOGICAL THOUGHT. So communication with them has to regress to name calling and third grade tactics... Heldawg has cooties.
The only person I see calling names here is you. Calling people who disagree with you brain washed and zombies doesn't really further the discussion. It makes you look exactly like those you complain about.
There are many on the left with vast superiority complexes ... even on this very board.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: so, when you correctly point out that the Republicans put up a lame nutjob for president and try to sell him to us as "The Guy" to right the ship, it's a joke,
You are entitled to your opinion, especially since I don't like Romney. However I cannot figure out why you think he is a nutjob. You also said in another thread that he has screwed the middle class. I asked you to tell me how but I assume you didn't see it because you never duck from a discussion. No sarcasm in the last sentence.
Quote: So when someone with liberal tendencies criticizes the right then they must be a Democrat? Is it not possible for liberals to feel that the Democratic Party fails to represent their views? There's plenty of conservatives that are independent and don't agree on everything with the GOP, must they be GOP-by-default?
No, it's because everything he writes bashes all Republicans all the time. He also is for just about everything the Democrats stand for or say.
Quote: Unless you are selling the Tea Party snake oil, some of the brain washed zombies on this board WILL NEVER CONCEIVE A LOGICAL THOUGHT. So communication with them has to regress to name calling and third grade tactics... Heldawg has cooties.
A kid told me I had cooties once....ONCE!
The main thing I think about when I read what you're typing is Bill O'Reilly. If you believe him when he says he's an Independent then I guess you should continue walking around calling yourself an Independent.
The few Independents that I know walk around thinking they're somehow intellectually superior for holding this position. It makes me chuckle.
Quote: so, when you correctly point out that the Republicans put up a lame nutjob for president and try to sell him to us as "The Guy" to right the ship, it's a joke,
You are entitled to your opinion, especially since I don't like Romney. However I cannot figure out why you think he is a nutjob. You also said in another thread that he has screwed the middle class. I asked you to tell me how but I assume you didn't see it because you never duck from a discussion. No sarcasm in the last sentence.
I didn't see it, sorry bout that.
The Nutjob part is perhaps too strong a term,, just flew off the tongue (or fiingers as it were)
What I really meant and should have said is that the man floats. Whatever whos in front of him wants to hear, that's what he says. He's deft at spinning and turning a phrase, but in the end when you break it down, he doesn't really stand for anything.. hmm,, when I think about it, maybe nutjob was the right word
In one of his previous positions as top banana at bain Capital, he bought and closed quite a few companies. In the process he made millions and the people that got killed in the process were middle class folks just doing their jobs every day.
To his credit, he did help a very successful company (who's name escapes me at the moment but I think it was retail oriented) by funding it initially and continually until it was stable and growing. Again, I believe it was retail oriented. I actually think it was a company called Staples... but I could be wrong.
But, that's a 1:10 ratio.. One good deed, 10 bad deeds so to speak (I'm guessing on the numbers but I'm sure the exact info is out there somewhere, I'm just not going to spend the time to look)
Anyway the point is, his company bought plenty of companies, striped them of all value, sold off those valued parts and pieces, closed them and laid off thousands.
He didn't help Mass as Gov. either. I mean, I've not read the health bill he passed, but my partner lives in Haverhill Ma, and he has. We used to do payrolling there for clients. the problem is payrolling is a low cost version of hiring people for shorterm, quick hit jobs. LIke times of extreme busy season. Think of an online retailer for several months before Christmas. very busy, then about Mid January, business drops and so does the need for the extra help. We don't do that in Ma anymore because we can't charge enough to make it worthwhile.
Last year we added a healthcare plan that can take care of that problem, but being a small company, we can't compete with the big guys that have greater buying power when it comes to health care insurance. We should be ok elsewhere however because we only have to deal Obamacare and not Romney and Obamacare together.
But even worse, he's talked about repealing Obamacare and it's not even as bad as Romneycare according to my partner who is knowledgable about both plans. (it's his job to know that stuff, it's my job to find openings and fill them)
Keep in mind, this is what I'm talking aboiut when I say he will say what people in front of him want to hear. he put up Romneycare, but says he'll repeal Obamacare.. The point is simple, he's no bettter than the guy we have in there now.
I hope I answered your questions.. and I really didn't mean to ignore your other question, I just didn't see it...
Now I guarantee you that I'm about to get beat on.. so feel free to do so, but I'm really not going to debate it. its all out there for everyone to see... I don't need to argue this garbage with anyone.
bottom line, I don't like Romney, I don't Like Obama and I'm not sure who I'm voting for except it won't' be either of them.. That's all I know at the moment.
Maybe I'll find some guy that thinks we need to all be wearing tinfoil hats.. maybe he's the right guy. Could he possiblly be worse then those we have to chose from.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Unless you are selling the Tea Party snake oil, some of the brain washed zombies on this board WILL NEVER CONCEIVE A LOGICAL THOUGHT. So communication with them has to regress to name calling and third grade tactics... Heldawg has cooties.
A kid told me I had cooties once....ONCE!
The main thing I think about when I read what you're typing is Bill O'Reilly. If you believe him when he says he's an Independent then I guess you should continue walking around calling yourself an Independent.
The few Independents that I know walk around thinking they're somehow intellectually superior for holding this position. It makes me chuckle.
The cootie comment was good,, Reminded me of a guy Joe Pisacpo played in a movie,, I think it was johnny Dangerorsly or something like that. good line.
I am a republican. I used to be proud to say that, but the party has changed so much,, they aren't a cohesive community anymore. they are fractured to the point that I don't recognize them
They don't speak with one voice, they don't come from the same direction.
they are just a mess.
but I'm still one that believes in the basic principles of the republican party.
But, they just ticked me off last election and I went the other way on them and frankly they deserved it.
I won't ever call myself and independent.. I can't, I'm really not one. I lean to far republican to be independent.
But, I feel as if they've abandoned me in favor of big corporations and industries and special interests..
So, last time I lashed out at them,, maybe I got what I deserved, but frankly, I think the same things would have happened.
I think McCain would have been forced to bail out the auto industry, I think he'd have been forced to address the healhcare issues we have, and I have no doubt that the very people that are calling out obama for those things, would be hailing McCain a hero.
it's not what is said, it's who says it. Ir'a not what's done, he's who's done it.
McCain shoots an intruder to the White House, he's a hero, Obama shoots an intruder to the white house and someone will want to see his carry conceal permit.
Or the other way around depending on who you talk to.
When we figure out that we need to bar them from lying to us, when we figure out that we need to punish them for working more for special interest groups than they do for us, they maybe we'll get somewhere.
until then, we got what we got.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Anyway the point is, his company bought plenty of companies, striped them of all value, sold off those valued parts and pieces, closed them and laid off thousands.
I thought this is what you meant but I haven't seen where this has happened. Do you have any examples where they bought a company that wasn't going under and tore it apart?
Quote: Anyway the point is, his company bought plenty of companies, striped them of all value, sold off those valued parts and pieces, closed them and laid off thousands.
I thought this is what you meant but I haven't seen where this has happened. Do you have any examples where they bought a company that wasn't going under and tore it apart?
I myself am not aware of any examples of that.
I do believe that Bain bought companies that were headed for bankruptcy without any outside intervention.
Some of them prospered after a business person came in and made decisions for the betterment of the company. Some jobs did get shipped........Not all, by any stretch. And further - if someone hadn't stepped in, most of those companies would've been out of business anyway - NO jobs.
Quote: There are many on the left with vast superiority complexes ... even on this very board.
Dude this FORUM has some of the most massive egos I've ever encountered on the internet, regardless of political affiliation.
You may need to get out more ...
This isn't the only site I post on. The football discussion here is phenomenal, it's probably better than any site on the internet. It is the reason why I joined. However I stand by what I said. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. Most of you probably just compare this site to the Browns main forum, which is poor.
No, not just the "main" Browns forum, few people here ever even read there. This is one of the more civilized boards, period. Go to any board that talks politics and social issues and you will see enough crap from both sides to make you want to vomit. This board is more polite than most any board you will ever visit on those subjects. You aren't going to change our minds because it just isn't true.
Quote: This is one of the more civilized boards, period. Go to any board that talks politics and social issues and you will see enough crap from both sides to make you want to vomit. This board is more polite than most any board you will ever visit on those subjects. You aren't going to change our minds because it just isn't true.
Unfortunately I am not allowed to post a link to other sites but I disagree. Like I said, people are dead set in their ways so I don't want to try and change opinions. This site is great for football discussion, that's it.
Again, you must not visit very many sites that talk politics. This group is in no way as bad as a great majority of them. There are people who are confident and have strong opinions here. I suppose some people who may not be as self-assured may view that as arrogant or egotistical, or may be intimidated by it. I just don't see it as describing very many people here.
Quote: Unless you are selling the Tea Party snake oil, some of the brain washed zombies on this board WILL NEVER CONCEIVE A LOGICAL THOUGHT. So communication with them has to regress to name calling and third grade tactics... Heldawg has cooties.
A kid told me I had cooties once....ONCE!
The main thing I think about when I read what you're typing is Bill O'Reilly. If you believe him when he says he's an Independent then I guess you should continue walking around calling yourself an Independent.
The few Independents that I know walk around thinking they're somehow intellectually superior for holding this position. It makes me chuckle.
Actually I have never watched Bill O'Reilly to my recollection... And I don't feel superior. I call myself an independent because I don't believe 100% in either party. I bashed Dems long ago. Just at this point I agree more with them.
Quote: Anyway the point is, his company bought plenty of companies, striped them of all value, sold off those valued parts and pieces, closed them and laid off thousands.
I thought this is what you meant but I haven't seen where this has happened. Do you have any examples where they bought a company that wasn't going under and tore it apart?
I myself am not aware of any examples of that.
I do believe that Bain bought companies that were headed for bankruptcy without any outside intervention.
Some of them prospered after a business person came in and made decisions for the betterment of the company. Some jobs did get shipped........Not all, by any stretch. And further - if someone hadn't stepped in, most of those companies would've been out of business anyway - NO jobs.
KB toys wasn't going under when Bain initiated that takeover. In this deal Bain put down 18 million, took out a loan for ~300 million, and bought a controlling share in KB. Right before the first bankruptcy in 2004, Bain also forced the company to pay out 121 million dividends, which required the company to take out another loan of 66 million just to partially cover it. Like I said, KB toys ended up going into bankruptcy in 2004, then again in 2008 for good. During those years, KB also paid millions of dollars in management fees to Bain. So, for the 18 million dollar investment, they got back 100's of millions of dollars. Is it slick money making? Heck yes. Does it add anything productive to our country? Heck no.
It's unfortunate that a man comes out and describes his agenda and what he dislikes with both parties, claims he's independent.... and half of you tell him he's views are wrong and he's misguided thinking he's independent cuz he said something bad aabout republicans .... therefore he must be a democrat.
I thought your original post in this thread is spot on and wish I said it myself.
It's unfortunate that conservatives on this board cannot have a valid discussion without throwing out the term liberal every other word. They equate anything negative/constructive that is said about the Republican party as made up or god forbid, it come from the news and totally discredit it. Then cry "liberal media." Yet these same people will quote Limbaugh, Hannity, O'reilly, of Fox news... and actually believe that it is a reputable news organization.
Remember when if you questioned any of Bush's policies or made fun of his gaffs, you were called unamerican and Michelle Bachman(the woman who thinks she's a prophet of some sort) would then want to verify your citizenship and claim your a terrorist....oh dont forget the ole... you don't support our troops if you disagree.
Trying to have a logical debate with the extremes on both sides is futile. But I commend you in trying.
4 years ago ... you could not convince anyone on this board of a fact that contradicted Fox news BS. You could provide links to articles, surveys, video of said republican stating whatever the remark was and none would believe.
IMHO... its best not to even try.
I told myself that i would not partake in political discussions on this board, because it is pointless and a waste of time. The only reason that I recently started to replay is because I'm so sick and tired of the level of unjustified Hate attached to so many ppl's comments. It's absurd and ridiculous.
I actually think YT hates Obama more than Colt McCoy...and I dont mean to single you out YT or pick on you. I enjoy our football debates. But you and many others here act like Obama bankrupt america, lied to you, started 2 wars, got richer off the wars, invaded your privacy, or allowed your savings to be gambled away, .... oh wait that was the last president.
He tried what noone else would and actually made an attempt to fix healthcare which was completely abismal situation in this country. I mean You all are right... he's the devil for trying to assure that all americans could find aid when needed. Is it a perfect plan... no. But I like I said in the last election... I'd rather see Obama try n fail, then noone try at all. I lost my father to poor healthcare policies of the past and it could of been avoided.
I hate HMO.
And that is the biggest gripe most of you have.... should that equal hate with passion??? NO
Quote: Umm .... what the hell did Republicans contribute to the healthcare law???
They came up with most of the major ideas and even wrote the framework the law was based on in 1993.
Here is a chart that compares most of the major policies in the 2010 health care bill as compared to the 1993 GOP alternative to Hillarycare. As you can see, they are extremely similar with only a few differences.
Both had requirements to purchase insurance, set a standard benefits package, bans denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, established exchanges, offered subsidies to low income people to buy insurance, reduced growth in Medicare spending, caps high cost health plans, prohibits insurance companies from cancelling coverage, etc.
In a sign of extreme cynicism, several of the GOP authors of the 1993 bill who were still in Congress at the time of the 2010 bill came out vehemently against the 2010 bill.
Quote: Anyway the point is, his company bought plenty of companies, striped them of all value, sold off those valued parts and pieces, closed them and laid off thousands.
I thought this is what you meant but I haven't seen where this has happened. Do you have any examples where they bought a company that wasn't going under and tore it apart?
Yeah, there were a couple, not hard to find.. but I'm not wasting my time on it. I'm not voting for the guy so I don't really care all that much.
If you wanna know,, I'm positive you can find the info..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
, but understand !
However I cannot figure out why you think he is a nutjob. You also said in another thread that he has screwed the middle class. I asked you to tell me how but I assume you didn't see it because you never duck from a discussion. No sarcasm in the last sentence.
