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I think that Heckert and Shurmur are here for the rest of this year, at a minimum.
If the team shows progress throughout the year, and wins more games as the year goes along, then they have a chance to keep their jobs.
Banner is from the Eagles line, and so are Heckert and Shurmur. I think that could bode well for them, if they can produce decent results.
And Haslam being more from the Pittsburgh line of thinking I believe is more apt to hang onto Heckert and Shurmur. In one of the articles, he made mention of us hiring a new HC every 2.8 years which is absolutly nuts.. you can't build anything that way.. Pittsburgh knows it, Philly knows it.
So, if you think about it, if Banner does indeed come on board, they all come with the same basic thought process.. stability and build through the draft.
Honestly, I think Holmgren is he only guy that is in initial jeapardy. But of course, they may all be if they don't show some serious progress.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And Haslam being more from the Pittsburgh line of thinking I believe is more apt to hang onto Heckert and Shurmur. In one of the articles, he made mention of us hiring a new HC every 2.8 years which is absolutly nuts.. you can't build anything that way.. Pittsburgh knows it, Philly knows it.
So, if you think about it, if Banner does indeed come on board, they all come with the same basic thought process.. stability and build through the draft.
Honestly, I think Holmgren is he only guy that is in initial jeapardy. But of course, they may all be if they don't show some serious progress.
This is what I think.. or maybe what I hope... not sure yet. I think Haslam believes what he says, that doesn't want a carousel of coaches and GMs.. therefore he is going to do his due diligence before making a change. He may even give this group one more year before deciding. I don't know, but the feeling that I get is that he only wants to make the change once (hence his comment about not changing every 2.8 years). He has to know that he gets ONE free pass to bring in his own people and after that he owns the decision.
So I look for him to grade out what we have, look at what's available, talk to people, etc A LOT before making a decision. I do not look for him to make changes just for the sake of making changes without a real solid feeling like its an upgrade.
yebat' Putin
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-jc-
I think Pat is gone and Tom has a 50% chance of staying. True Haslam said you can't keep changing coaches but that doesn't mean he won't change the current regime. What he means is when he puts his guys in place they will be here for a while to maintain stability.
I am excited to see Haslam come in. Lerner tried, he really did but this wasn't his passion and it shows. Hopefully this will work out for us fans and our franchise is taking steps to be a respectable franchise again.
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself 
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself
Have you ever seen him try to get the edge on a pull block?
Some blame the sandals, but seriously, if you can walk on water, you should be able to run in sandals.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself
Have you ever seen him try to get the edge on a pull block?
Some blame the sandals, but seriously, if you can walk on water, you should be able to run in sandals.
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Honestly, I don't even know where this "consistency of coaching" silliness comes from... decades ago I’m assuming. Here's some fun stats that illustrate reality today.
- Number of coaches who have had their current job more than 3 years without posting a .500 or better record in their first 2 seasons? One. (Jim Schwartz in Year 3)
- Number of non-new hire coaches still around who haven't posted a winning season yet? Five.
- Before I go on, that makes the numbers:
- 56% of NFL coaches have posted at least a .500 record with their current team within 2 years
- 21.9% of coaches were new hires in 2012
- 15.6% of coaches have been with their current team at least 1 year and haven’t posted a .500 record (guess where Shurmur is)
Of those coaches, in order of win/loss record:
Pete Carroll, 2010 - 14-18 (44%) - Relatively safe, went to playoffs in 2010
Ron Rivera, 2011 - 6-11 (35%) - Relatively safe because of year end improvement
Leslie Frazier, 2010 - 7-16 (30%) - On the hot seat
Chan Gailey, 2010 - 10-23 (30%) - On the hot seat
Pat Shurmur, 2011 - 4-13 (23%) - On the hot seat
Those numbers don’t lie. At minimum, get your team to .500 and relevant by Year 3 at minimum if not Year 2. Otherwise, you’re getting canned. We can debate roster strength until we’re blue in the face but other coaches manage to turn around garbage. The teams that have stability anymore have it because their coach shows them something early on, not because they suck for years and stick with it. In a league that allows “worst-to-first” more than any other, to scrape along in the gutter every single year is inexcusable. Yes, it’s early to fire Shurmur after this year but let’s be honest – he’s been one of the worst coaches in the league thus far. If Haslam wants to get his own people, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all for him to fast forward a year for Shurmur. The same goes for Holmgren and even Heckert unfortunately… produce or you’ll be replaced. Our basement low expectations need to leave town along with Randy Lerner.
In short (which I know is quite funny after this monster post), it’s not just that teams win because they have stability… they have stability because they win.
We're... we're good?
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I can feel you there. The reality is until we find the right Balance it will always be wrong. If you keep tipping the scales to one side then the other it will never balance. We have a tri scale and the players are the singles the coaching the decades and the GM is the 100's. Right now we are sitting about 827. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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You know, I've seen so many act as though a new owner in Haslam is a new beginning, an answer to a prayer. I won't say that it isn't, yet to a great degree I don't understand all the giddiness associated with this. Let's look at the reality of this situation. People suggest that somehow his small owning interest in the Steelers is cause for optimism. Yet Haslam didn't even buy into the Steelers until 2008. All the while, he was actually the CEO of Flying J. Running that business, not the Steelers. So what credentials does that give him as being an actual "owner of a team"? Then we have the rumored hire of Banner. By all accounts I've seen, Banner has been mainly a pencil pusher for Philly and in no way a football operations guy what so ever. So thus far, we have someone who invested money, not time, in a minor ownership of a team, and only a few years at that..... combined with a pencil pusher from Philly. Can someone explain to me how that all of a sudden makes them experts at hiring the right guys to run our Cleveland Browns? What is it about those two resumes' that can realisticly give you any more faith that they will hire a more compitant group than the Lerners did? Both families come from a purely business background. One could easily believe and with some confidence I might add, that MBNA is far more successful than Flying J. While Haslam has only been a minority owner since 2008, the Al Lerner bought started buying ownership in the Browns during the 70's. From a purely statistical look at things, the Lerner family has been in the "NFL ownership game" for as many decades, as Haslam has been in it for years. Randy acutally grew up in a family that owned the Browns. He heard and knew of all of the things going on with regards to owning a team. At least a part of his life revolved around it. So now comes in the newbie. Being a minority owner of a team for a very short time and all the while, investing the vast majority of his time in flying J on a day to day basis than anything. A guy who self admitidly Dad and I were taking showers after practice and he said, ‘What do you think?’ and I said. ‘I think we have a lot to learn,’ but we think it’s an unbelievable opportunity...... Not saying that understanding that you have a lot to learn is a bad thing, but it does say that even in your own mind, you know that you need a lot more information to do the job as an NFL owner. Question: On how active he will be in terms of football decisions:
Haslam: “I think it will be a learning curve. I mean you’ve got a guy that won a Super Bowl over there that’s going to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, that’s a legend. I’ll be honest, there’s a fan part of me too. Last night I was looking forward to dinner to meet Mike, but he’s also a guy I’ve thought a lot of so we’re going to ask a lot of questions and learn it first. I’m a believer in collective wisdom and if you have five smart people sitting around the table, it’s better than four, but we’re going to take some time to get up to speed before we get real involved in any football decisions. It probably comes a little quicker on the business side for us.”
Think about this. Once again, by his own admission, he knows very little about the problems and issues the Browns really have here.
Question: On what he knew about the franchise before July 2 and what he has learned since:
Haslam: “I didn’t know a lot. I knew the Browns had struggled over the years, because I’ve been on the other side of that with that other team. Since July 2, I’ve picked up the Plain Dealer every day and see what the news is on practice, when did Trent (Richardson) sign, when did Brandon (Weeden) sign and all those kind of things, but I don’t pretend to be an expert on the Cleveland Browns, and won’t for quite some time. Now, I think it’s my job to get there
Yet again, mant speak in terms of a new day dawning. A new direction, Holmgren and this entire staff being "blown up". If you actually believe what Haslam is saying, that very well may not be the case. If you can't believe what he says, we'll know very soon. And if you can't believe what he says, what does that tell you? Question: On how he plans on balancing the changes he will bring to the franchise against blowing it up:
Haslam: “Here again, I’ve been in the Cleveland community one day so I don’t pretend to be an expert, but I sense there’s a strong feeling here that Mike and the team do have things headed in the right direction. I just think we’ve got to listen, learn and observe. You know in football, you either win or you lose. There’s not a question of how did we do. I think over time these guys will be successful.” I'm not saying that Haslam may or may not be an improvement over the Lerner family. What I'm saying is there is no great reason I can see for some of the overwhelming optimism I've seen that Haslam will be an improvement. And it's kind of a funny thing. He seems to fully understand he isn't that well versed in the actual game of football or the actual state of the Browns. Yet....... “Somebody asked me that when we were having lunch, about being hands on because we run our main business hands on. I looked over at Mike and I said, ‘Mike probably doesn’t want us to be hands on,’ but I think our style is going to be involved. So the really big question remains. Will Haslam be an improvement, or will he be the second coming of Al Davis? The jury is still out on that one....... The fact is, this is year three of Homgrens five year plan. The fact is we have on idea if that plan will or won't work. This is the very first draft that they have actually heavily invested in the offense and as most of us know, you really won't know about how a draft class will actually turn out for a couple of years at least. Well, until just here lately when it seems so many have forgotten that. Of course there will be some misses as with every GM on every draft. But there would still be a couple of draft classes left to address those needs. As a Browns fan, I certainly hope for all of our sakes that Haslam and whoever he brings in will be the answer to our woes. But his resume and admitance to needing to learn a lot surely is no huge stamp of confidence. So here's to hoping for the best. Because in reality, when looking at all of the evidence, hope is really all we have here.... For all items in this color, here is the link http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2012/08/cleveland_browns_new_owner_jim.html
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself
Have you ever seen him try to get the edge on a pull block?
Some blame the sandals, but seriously, if you can walk on water, you should be able to run in sandals.
He also lacks a mean streak. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You know, I've seen so many act as though a new owner in Haslam is a new beginning, an answer to a prayer. I won't say that it isn't, yet to a great degree I don't understand all the giddiness associated with this.
Simple response:
Addition by subtractions, ie: He can't do any worse than Lerner.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Another simple response....
If all things end up being equal, we break even.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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And don't forget, he's kind of undersized for the position. Certainly not a mauler.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Here's the thing. It's now the 14th year since someone named "Lerner" has been calling the shots for this team. During that time, our level of success has been pitiful, and we've failed to put any semblance of a consistent winner on the field primarily because we've failed to put any semblance of a consistent winner in the front office.
Randy Lerner has gone through several shot-callers and they've all bombed. None of them had a track record of success at the jobs they were hired for. There was zero reason to believe he'd ever get it, so finding someone else can't possibly be any worse.
That alone is reason for optimism, especially when Haslam has come right out and put the wheels in motion to install a proven winner in Banner. You wanna say you don't understand it, which really means you don't agree with it. Cool, that's your absolute right, but that is the reason why so many are excited.
When you've been handed nothing but crap by an owner for a decade, getting rid of that owner is a victory.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself
Have you ever seen him try to get the edge on a pull block?
Some blame the sandals, but seriously, if you can walk on water, you should be able to run in sandals.
He also lacks a mean streak.
Oh yeah, did you hear what he did to those evil tax collectors
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself
Have you ever seen him try to get the edge on a pull block?
Some blame the sandals, but seriously, if you can walk on water, you should be able to run in sandals.
He also lacks a mean streak.
Oh yeah, did you hear what he did to those evil tax collectors
Yeah, but He's always forgiving people ..... I mean, He forgave the guys who drove nails through his hands and feet ....... He's never going to retaliate for a chop block. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Oh I get it. You're trying to pawn off a pencil pusher in Banner as some reason to change this.
Banner has no experience when it comes to hiring head coaches or in player personnel. So if he has any say in these things, it's yet another guy doing a job he's never been hired to do before.
Now if you're talking about salary cap numbers and contract negotiations I see your point. However, I didn't know we had a problem in either of those areas now.
But otherwise I don't see anyone that has been named to any job that helps us in or about anything related on the field.
I get it. People somehow feel a change, simply for the sake of change is going to be a good thing. But thus far, neither Banner nor Haslam have a resume's that will have any impact in regards to drafting, coaching or anything else that seems to be the main focus of our problems.
You can spin that any way you like. But bottom line, when it comes to Haslam, there are nore questions than answers. And a pencil pusher in Banner doesn't change that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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J/C, I think some of you would find fault in Jesus Christ himself
Have you ever seen him try to get the edge on a pull block?
Some blame the sandals, but seriously, if you can walk on water, you should be able to run in sandals.
He also lacks a mean streak.
Oh yeah, did you hear what he did to those evil tax collectors
Yeah, but He's always forgiving people ..... I mean, He forgave the guys who drove nails through his hands and feet ....... He's never going to retaliate for a chop block.
LOL ... well that just means he wont be getting flaged for a personal foul.
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Yeah, but he also won't be able to pick up ANY blitzers with his feet nailed in place.... and on defense, it's ALL arm tackling. Grab a claw hammer and pull those nails out so you can wrap up, already!!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You know, I've seen so many act as though a new owner in Haslam is a new beginning, an answer to a prayer. I won't say that it isn't, yet to a great degree I don't understand all the giddiness associated with this.
Simple response:
Addition by subtractions, ie: He can't do any worse than Lerner.
Yeah, how many coaches and players have this very phrase been said about over the last decade, and how has that worked for us?
It can ALWAYS get worse.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It can ALWAYS get worse.
Not this team. Do I need to post records from this decade? We've hit rock bottom
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It can ALWAYS get worse.
Oddly enough, this would guarantee higher draft picks. At least that would be an improvement over the era of drafting high enough so that you know that we suck, but not high enough to build a winning team through steady injection and retention of high first & second round picks. At least if we're going to continue to suck, let's suck better than everyone else instead of merely being mediocre at it. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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jc, that was a great initial post. I agree pretty much as well. I am kind of excited b/c HE seems to be excited. Lerner never seemed through the means I have to determine it, all that into the Browns. I think he felt an obligation to making us a winner, and tried............but we all know how that turned out.
on a superstitious note........I always thought with Lerner Sr. being a participant in the steal aka the move that having the Lerners as owners was a curse.
I say with that gone, and if we switch the sidelines back to the way they used to be (that also is one of my superstitions on why we consistantly suck.......we are on the visiting sidelines at our own stadium).........well then it's superbowl in the next 2 years!!!
Seriously so far in the 5 year plan, or D is looking vastly improved. Our Run D is a concern, but when everyone is back, I think we will be average at RunD. Given it's a passing league I'll live with that expecially given I think we can be elite in Pass D. Now that the plan is obviously to draft offense, and likely for another year (in my opinion we will draft O again next year.) I am hopefull we will see an improvement in the offense then as well since the D kind of proves they know what they are doing. That's my hope anyway.
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Addition by subtractions, ie: He can't do any worse than Lerner.
He can move them to Los Angeles.
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Addition by subtractions, ie: He can't do any worse than Lerner.
He can move them to Los Angeles.
Yes, because the guy that was with Pittsburgh, and is from Tennessee, obviously has ties with LA.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Banner has no experience when it comes to hiring head coaches or in player personnel.
I'm going to guess he knows plenty of people who do . . .
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Here's the thing. It's now the 14th year since someone named "Lerner" has been calling the shots for this team. During that time, our level of success has been pitiful, and we've failed to put any semblance of a consistent winner on the field primarily because we've failed to put any semblance of a consistent winner in the front office.
Randy Lerner has gone through several shot-callers and they've all bombed. None of them had a track record of success at the jobs they were hired for. There was zero reason to believe he'd ever get it, so finding someone else can't possibly be any worse.
That alone is reason for optimism, especially when Haslam has come right out and put the wheels in motion to install a proven winner in Banner. You wanna say you don't understand it, which really means you don't agree with it. Cool, that's your absolute right, but that is the reason why so many are excited.
When you've been handed nothing but crap by an owner for a decade, getting rid of that owner is a victory.
I'm not going to the extreme you are, but i'll play the odds. Odds are that Haslam is a better owner than Lerner.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Oh I get it. You're trying to pawn off a pencil pusher in Banner as some reason to change this.
Here's a quote that refutes what you're pedaling:
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Joe Banner turned a dysfunctional organization into one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL. He is credited for being the key figure in the building of Lincoln Financial Field and the NovaCare Complex. He helped develop a structured front office that fields a competitive team season after season, and he shouldn't have to apologize to anybody for that. Finally, he managed the salary cap in such a brilliant, precise manner, the Eagles never had to cut players or let one go via free agency simply because money got too tight.
If anything, Banner might have been a victim of his own success, because truthfully the Eagles don't need him any longer. The franchise will have a license to print money long after he's gone. There are no more buildings to construct. They have a qualified front office in place to handle day-to-day operations. The one football-related job Joe had left, negotiating player contracts and managing the cap, he ceded to Howie Roseman, who was described as a "Banner guy" when he was promoted to general manager in 2010.
When you look at it from that perspective, it almost makes sense why Banner wouid be pushed out the door: he made himself obsolete. That ignores the fact that he and Lurie are pals, and everything the owner has, he owes to Banner... but it is controversial!
Legacy
The final goal Banner had left to accomplish was delivering the Lombardi Trophy to Philly, but obviously he recognizes now that was always out of his hands after a certain point. Banner will never lace 'em up, and he'll never grab a headset and call in a play to the quarterback. While he may know how to assign a dollar value to a player, he's not a full-time talent evaluator, so he's not going to set the depth chart or run the draft, either. He hired people to do all of that for him. That was never his area of his expertise.
web page
But nevermind all that. He's just a pencil-pusher.
We should have been so lucky as to have someone like him over the last decade, but the fact we have him now is a great reason for optimism.
It'll be nice having a winner in the front office for once...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Oh I get it. You're trying to pawn off a pencil pusher in Banner as some reason to change this.
Here's a quote that refutes what you're pedaling:
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Joe Banner turned a dysfunctional organization into one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL. He is credited for being the key figure in the building of Lincoln Financial Field and the NovaCare Complex. He helped develop a structured front office that fields a competitive team season after season, and he shouldn't have to apologize to anybody for that. Finally, he managed the salary cap in such a brilliant, precise manner, the Eagles neÁer had to cut players or let one go via free agency simply because money got too tight.
If anything, Banner might have been a victim of his own success, because truthfully the Eagles don't need him any longer. The franchise will have a license to print money long after he's gone. There are no more buildings to construct. They have a qualified front office in place to handle day-to-day operations. The one football-related job Joe had left, negotiating player contracts and managing the cap, he ceded to Howie Roseman, who was described as a "Banner guy" when he was promoted to general manager in 2010.
When you look at it from that perspective, it almost makes sense why Banner would be pushed out the door: he made himself obsolete. That ignores the fact that he and Lurie are pals, and everything the owner has, he owes to Banner... but it is controversial!
Legacy
The final goal Banner had left to accomplish was delivering the Lombardi Trophy to Philly, but obviously he recognizes now that was always out of his hands after a certain point. Banner will never lace 'em up, and he'll never grab a headset and call in a play to the quarterback. While he may know how to assign a dollar value to a player, he's not a full-time talent evaluator, so he's not going to set the depth chart or run the draft, either. He hired people to do all of that for him. That was never his area of his expertise.
web page
But nevermind all that. He's just a pencil-pusher.
We should have been so lucky as to have someone like him over the last decade, but the fact we have him now is a great reason for optimism.
It'll be nice having a winner in the front office for once...
Only one problem,, as of this writing, I've heard no news that he is coming,. just rumor and speculation.
With the adoration showered on Holmgren by Haslam and his father, why is everyone so sure that he's going anywhere? Again, could it all come true,, you bet.
Anyone heard anything concrete? No. and the reason is, Haslam has said he doesn't think it's right to comment on any changes he may or may not make (paraphrasing)
PIT..
It's very easy to dismiss Haslam as an owner because he lacks the real day to day experience of running/owning a team.
Here's a couple of thoughts for you.. Art Rooney didn't own any sports teams prior to the Steelers, Jerry Jones didn't, Al Davis didn't, I could go on and on but you get my drift.
At least there is one thing in Haslams favor, he's been associated with one of the most well run orgainzations in the league for 3 or 4 years. He's been wanting to buy a franchise for years but nothing became available until a part ownership in the steelers opened up when the Rooney family was wanting to split things up and Dan Rooney needed fresh money.
Now, do I really believe that Haslam was involved on a day to day basis with the Steelers? Of course not. Was he informed of major changes,, probably but they really haven't had any since he's become part owner. Unless you are talking about players and I doubt he got involved in player decisions at all.
Jimmy haslam has proven his business acumen. I doubt anyone can argue that.
What a great businessman does better than anything or anyone else is listen and learn. It's funny, but you seem to want to knock him for that.
Most NFL Owners have come from Non-Football related careers but for some reason, you question Haslam?
Haslam is going to talk to us. Lerner never did. that in and of itself is an improvement.
Now on to the greater question, do I think that Haslam coming in guarantees anything? No. I don't.
But what we have isn't working (and I've been more or less a supporter of Lerner because he's tried to hire people and let them do their jobs).
That hasn't worked and perhaps it's because he's just not here enough. maybe it needs an owner who's more hands on. Not from the stand point of a Dan Snyder who thinks he can run the team, but more like a Dan Rooney who's involved (at least before he became an ambassador).
But there really isn't any guarantees. So if that's what your looking for, it's a pipe dream.
There is not one NFL Owner that was any more prepared to own a franchise than haslam is. in fact, due to his part ownership in the steelers, he may be the most well equipped indiividual to come a long in a long long time.
So what you question about him, I embrace as what is possible.
I guess it's glass half full thinking. I can live with that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What is Jimmy Haslam thinking? We'll find out eventually Published: Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 10:00 PM By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The new owner is all ears. Hopefully for an exasperated fan base, he's not all thumbs, too. Don't read anything big into Jimmy Haslam sitting in the back of the room during Pat Shurmur's post-game press conference Sunday. Shurmur has no reason for additional concern over and above the obvious: young coach, new owner, losing team, crushing defeat at home on a historically bad day for a rookie QB Shurmur stamped as ready for the season. It's not as if Haslam raised his hand to ask the head coach, "And you are? And you're with?" That would be reason to worry. Haslam's presence mostly showed he gets it. Either that he wants to learn more football or that he's smart enough to want to see how Shurmur speaks to fans through the media, how Shurmur handles tough questions, and whether Shurmur's answers derive from clear, logical reasoning. The timing for what came next, I'm sure, was coincidental. Two days after watching the Browns fail to score an offensive touchdown, Haslam officially stepped down as CEO of Pilot Flying J and will serve as chairman. Obviously, fixing the Browns is a full-time job. Being a quick study, he already knew it before Weeden began missing receivers by the length of a 18-wheeler against Philadelphia. My only hesitation about Haslam is now erased. It came during his introductory press conference when he said he planned to split his work between his CEO duties and ownership of the Browns. His status change with Pilot Flying J changed that. No doubt the Knoxville-Cleveland timeshare is still in effect to some extent. By stepping down, though, Haslam has sent another message that he's all-in as owner of the Browns. This doesn't preclude long losing streaks or impotent offense or even a quarterback expedition that's rivaled the search for Bobby Fischer -- hallmarks of the Browns since 1999. It does increase the speed of the culture change in Berea and increase the odds that a fix for what ails the Browns might be permanent one of these fine days. Haslam needs to immerse himself in a franchise that has become known for spinning its wheels and wasting time. At his press conference, he said the most important ingredient to the success of any CEO was the "people around you." And here I thought it was casual Friday. He has important personnel decisions to make in the front office and on the coaching staff. By giving the Browns more attention he'll be in a better position to evaluate Mike Holmgren, Tom Heckert and Shurmur. And not simply take other people's opinions into account. After Randy Lerner, who was as reluctant to own the team as Haslam is enthusiastic, I don't see how Haslam's hands-on ownership style is a bad thing. Famous last words, I know. But at least an exciting proposition for once.
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Thanks for posting.
Bud Shaw reflects my own sentiments. Addition by subtraction with Haslam. He's not named "Lerner" and that's cause for optimism.
Damanshot (dude, I know what the handle stands for but for the life of me I've no idea how to shorten it up to make it palatable, and using the full name seems somehow way too formal after all these years ) of course nothing is written in stone yet, but as I've always preached, sometimes you have to apply a little deductive reasoning and common sense to any given situation.
Haslam bought a team for the bargain-basement price of $1 billion. He saw a bumbling offense and a try-hard defense which both got out-gunned at home on opening day. He sees a roster in it's 3rd year under a regime that is looking up at 30 or so teams in terms of talent.
Owners who take over teams and/or businesses that suck don't typically keep the people that caused the suckiness.
It's my opinion that if he doesn't poop-can the people responsible for what we see on the field and is instead willing to sit idle and let things go for another year, he may not be the owner I want for the team. I don't believe he got to be rich by making the decision to keep people who have failed in place. Considering that we're in Holmgren's 3rd year and we are in such a world of crap, it would be hard to justify keeping him on to continue to run the $1 billion dollar investment.
I just don't see it. Common sense tells me it's nearly impossible.
Now it'd be inevitable that some would read the words "poop-can the people responsible" to mean cleaning house. I don't mean that. We all talk as though we know every move that any guy has made. I know Holmgren is a meddler. It's a fact since he admitted he was the one that pulled rank to get McCoy. What we don't know is how far the meddling goes. The good news is that Haslam will get those answers. So if it's only Holmgren that ends up being the problem and is put back on a bus heading to Seattle, so be it. He's the one man left (Lerner is now gone ) who was most responsible for our current situation and is the obvious target. We don't know how much say Heckert had in everything, nor can we really get a good read on Shurmur, so that picture is far more murky. So I'm not talking about cleaning house. I'm talking about holding the one man accountable who put this mess together.
We shall see very shortly...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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I love your Sig, man,"Wild Thing"!
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I disagree that we are looking up at 30 different teams in terms of talent. I think we have a fair amount of talent and for the first time in a long time, I can see quite a few of our starters actually being able to start and contribute on other teams (good teams)... we've played that game before, who do the Browns have that anybody else might want and it used to come down to Joe Thomas and kickers.... Right now I can see over a dozen players that could start for a lot of other teams. Unfortunately, they are mostly in years 1 or 2 of their NFL careers... and when you have that much youth, it's not going to look good, but individually, we have more talent than we have had in a long time.
yebat' Putin
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Damanshot (dude, I know what the handle stands for but for the life of me I've no idea how to shorten it up to make it palatable, and using the full name seems somehow way too formal after all these years )
LOL I get it and wouldn't be offended at all if you shorten it to D or Dman or Rick which is my real name.. Whatever makes you comfortable is fine I guess. I'm not here to make life harder for anyone so use your best judgement....
with your comment about Deductive reasoning, I assume you are referring to me saying that nothing has been officially confirmed about Banner coming on board and nothing has been officially confirmed that Holmgren is out. If that's what your saying, of course, I agree. Haslam himself said he wouldn't discuss that kinda thing until after he is confirmed as majority owner. (however, someone found a Wikipedia thing on Banner and it shows him tied to the Browns... FWIW)
I fully expect changes, I just don't really have a clue what they will be.
Is Banner coming in as Pres and Holmgren moving to Coach? (doubtful on the Holmgren coaching thing but possible)
Is Shurmur out?
Is Heckert out?
.
Who replaces them and when does it occur if it occurs?
All speculation at this point.
My hope is that the only person in line for early dismissal is Holmgren.
My guess is that if Banner is truly the prime dawg in this place that Heckert is safe initially. It may also mean that Shurmur is as well.
What would secure Shurmur for sure is if he managed to pull off a 8 or 9 win season. if that happens, I'd be pretty upset if Haslam removed him as HC and Heckert as GM. For that matter, changing Holmgren would seem a little wrong as well.
You mention deductive reasoning and when it comes to that, the way that Haslam and his father fawned over Holmgren makes me wonder why everyone is so sure Banner kicks holmgren to the curb? unless it was just window dressing, it sounds as if they have a great deal of respect for holmgren..
We don't know what connection, or at least I don't, Haslam has with Banner!
All in all, not a damn thing you and I and everyone else discusses at this point means much.. The proof will be when we see what the team looks like at the end of the season.
7,8 or 9 wins, Shurmur and Heckert really shouldn't be gone at all.
less than 7 wins and the decision gets a bit more dicey.. But I'd think a replacement HC is in order. just a guess of course.
First time line marker is 24 hours after Haslam takes over. What's he do? Browns go O fer and I can see immeadiate beheadings. Team running .500 and all bets are off.
After that, your guess is as good as any.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joe Banner turned a dysfunctional organization into one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL. He is credited for being the key figure in the building of Lincoln Financial Field and the NovaCare Complex.
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he managed the salary cap in such a brilliant, precise manner, the Eagles never had to cut players or let one go via free agency simply because money got too tight.
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The one football-related job Joe had left, negotiating player contracts and managing the cap, he ceded to Howie Roseman, who was described as a "Banner guy" when he was promoted to general manager in 2010.
Isn't 2010 when they landed Vick? Or was it 2011? As your own quote states, the salary cap and player contracts was his only "football related job".
That's the funny thing about articles, each writer puts their own spin on things.
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It was once when Banner was in the middle of ambitious projects like the planning and construction of a new stadium or practice facility or the implementation of aggressive marketing programs. And it was when he was the team's only negotiator for promising young players who would become the nucleus of clubs that reached the NFC Championship Game four times in four years and five times in eight seasons.
The stadium he helped plan was a success. So was the new training facility. And the negotiations and cap management he once handled -- and handled adroitly -- had been turned over to general manager Howie Roseman, now the Eagles' sole negotiator with player contracts.
Makes sense to me. Nevertheless, there are cynics out there who will speculate that his decision to step down was linked to a power struggle he lost with Reid or who will wonder if friction with the head coach drove him to the next exit. While that makes for good copy, it's not true.
First of all, Reid always had the power here, so Banner had no power to lose. When a decision is made, it's not Joe Banner who signs off on it; it's Andy Reid. And nothing changed there.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19293...g-new-challenge
Here is a link that shows how it's Reid who hires his coaches. Once again, he's a pencil pusher. Please show how he actually hired the "football people" in Philly. He didn't from every account I can find.
http://articles.philly.com/2012-09-10/sports/33714716_1_todd-bowles-head-coach-steve-spagnuolo
But never mind all of that.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not trying to dismiss him. I'm simply saying we really have no idea what we'll get with the combination of Haslam/Banner. They may be very successful but we may end up getting more of the same. I feel some have been being overly optimistic based on everything "of substance" that I've been able to find. Banner appears to be a numbers and negotiations guy who is good with contracts. Haslam appears to be a good businessman. Those are both fine qualities to have in an organization. But as with Lerner, we must simply hope they find and hire the right "football guys". I'm not trying to diss them because I don't know if they will or won't accomplish that. I just don't feel, based on their resumes', that we can ASSume they will. That's all......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not trying to dismiss him. I'm simply saying we really have no idea what we'll get with the combination of Haslam/Banner.
They may be very successful but we may end up getting more of the same. I feel some have been being overly optimistic based on everything "of substance" that I've been able to find.
Banner appears to be a numbers and negotiations guy who is good with contracts. Haslam appears to be a good businessman. Those are both fine qualities to have in an organization.
But as with Lerner, we must simply hope they find and hire the right "football guys". I'm not trying to diss them because I don't know if they will or won't accomplish that.
I just don't feel, based on their resumes', that we can ASSume they will. That's all......
Oh I pretty much knew what you meant, but what I was attempting to point out was that there hasn't been an owner, (except 1 oher) to my knowledge, come along, buy a team and have a better resume than Jimmy Haslam.
I dare say that Al Lerners resume was as good or maybe even better than Haslams.
he was part owner of the Browns (I think 9 percent or something like that) so in reality, he has roughly the same resume as Haslam. Super Successful business builder, successful personal life, Successful at about anything he tried to do and he was a part owner of an NFL team for years and years prior to buying the Browns.
Clearly, that didn't qualify him to be an outstanding NFL Team Owner. Personally, I think Al was too nice a guy and got buffaloed by Carmen Policy. Then he turns it over to his son who it's clear now, didn't want it to begin with.
I keep wondering what would have happened had he listened to Kosar instead?
So, two guys, similar backgrounds, both strong business people, one was up in years and not 100 percent healthy and appeared to have a rather calm demeanor, the other is quite a bit younger, looks healthy as hell and has what I would call a outwardly firey/driven personality.
Honestly I don't know which is better,,, One didn't work, will the other?
I just don't see any reason at all to second guess it at this point. not yet anyway. he's done absolutely nothing to make me think he won't succeed.
Plenty of guys with lesser background have. I guess we'll see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I see your point and admire your optimism. I don't think you're being over the top with it at all as I have seen with some.
I guess I see it more of the 50/50 route though.
I do give Banner a far better grade coming in than Policy but neither of them are in my mind "real football guys". More from the attorney/numbers mode.
I have hope but it is somewhat guarded at this juncture.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I haven't read anything about it, but what's the Haslem/Banner relationship?
How does the guy from Tenn/Pitt know the guy from Philly, and why do they have such a good relationship?
Just wondering.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
I haven't read anything about it, but what's the Haslem/Banner relationship?
How does the guy from Tenn/Pitt know the guy from Philly, and why do they have such a good relationship?
Just wondering.
It's been said that the League brokered the deal and I think (speculation) Banner was the man the League used as their broker.
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