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But again, the way that Haslam and his father fawned over Holmgren and speak of him in terms that make it sound like he's their hero, which to you believe?
Do you really think that a man that has hardly been immersed in the business of professional football is going to publicly state that a future HOF coach sucked in his executive role and will be relinquished of his duties once the sale of the team is official? Haslam said the right things in his pressers, that's all I'm taking it as. I believe it's already been hashed out about how you can't believe what any of these guys say to the media. We all will truly know how they feel by their actions on their words.
No, I don't expect Haslam to take that tact at all., I expect that if he decides that Holmgren needs to go, he'll do everything he can to make it look as if it was holmgrens choice. haslam doesn't appear to be stupid, he's not going to get a sure HOF coach ticked off at him by embarrasing him.
No No, if he want's holmgren gone, I guarantee you, it will appear to be holmgrens decision. And maybe it won't be JUST for appearences sake, he may really wanna hang them up.
I have a funny feeling we'll never really know for sure..
#GMSTRONG
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I just hope Haslam can help bring the right people in to turn this franchise around into a sure fire winner and competitor. I'm tired of being the butt of everything involving pig skin.
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Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed
Wow ... I guess I must have missed that statement by Holmgren declaring Colt McCoy the franchise. (not very likely)  
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Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed. The media speaks of that failure as one of the reasons Holmgren's tenure here has been anything but stellar.
toad...do NFL teams target QBs in the 3rd round as being a "franchise QB"?
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What it means mac, is once you commit to someone, you stick with them. Haslam hasn't commited and isn't commited to anyone yet.
That's where I think you're off base. Haslam hasn't hired ANYONE here.
According to what he says, once he does, it will be for the long haul.
pit...it all comes out the same...
If Haslam begins changing everything by firing Holmgren and replacing him with Joe "the bean counter" Banner...making that change in the middle of the freaking season...it's just the beginning...
...then the rest of the franchise gets ripped up after the season.
It all works out the same as Haslam will have done exactly what he accused Al and Randy Lerner of doing...thus he will be 100% "hypocrite".
...and, by Haslam's own words, he will have set the Browns back 3 or 4 yrs.
It really doesn't matter whether Haslam starts by firing the coach or the President of the franchise...it will lead to wholesale changes by the time the dust settles in the spring of 2013.
...making Haslam no different than those he is criticizing.
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Except Al and Randy were firing people they hired. 
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Haslam is the only guy who can fix this. He signs the checks.
He has been schooled in the order of the NFL universe:
You need stability at GM, HC, QB.
Until the Browns get a quarterback who can play the position at a high caliber they will remain irrelevant.
I am of the belief that there are competent HC candidates around the league maybe even Shurmur can evolve into one.
However, the key man in any organization is the talent evaluator. Players come go but every year the draft is where the future of the team exists. The man who can consistently pick talent is critical to the success of a team.
If Holmgren is the guy who blew it in the negotiations to get Griffin and forced his hand on the decision to draft Weeden in the first round? He should crawl under a mountain to hide his shame.
This year the teams performance will reflect upon management and they will held accountable.
Weeden will have to prove that he is worthy of being drafted in the first round. If he fails Holmgren and maybe Heckert will pay the price. Shurmur's fate will be tied to theirs.
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Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed. The media speaks of that failure as one of the reasons Holmgren's tenure here has been anything but stellar.
You speak about it far more than the media does and here is the flaw in your theory. NOBODY, including Holmgren stakes their reputation on a #85 pick in the draft at QB. The defense was being built and he took a flyer on an undersized kid that seemed to be able to win and be accurate at the NCAA level.
For anyone to even suggest that, is laughable to say the least. You take a flyer on a kid later in the draft because your main investments are going to the D. If he pans out, that's a high draft pick later when you begin to build your O that you don't have to spend on a QB and if he doesn't pan out to be great you have your back-up at a reasonable price.
What you have suggested here does nothing to support your credability.
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There isn't any one thing that has doomed Holmgren. It's been the accumulated smaller failures which resulted in us nearly starting over in his 3rd season, though keeping Mangini was a rather sizable error in judgment.
Once again you have avoided the point. At no time in the first two drafts was the O a high priority. In the draft you claim that Holmgren was "banking on McCoy", T.J. Ward was drafted with our first 3rd round pick. Had Holmgren been "so high on McCoy", McCoy would have been the pick there to insure he wasn't selected before #85. You don't wait to #85 to select who you think will be a "sure fire bet" as your QB.
The D were the primary targets in those drafts. The only real acception was Hardesty. This is the first draft that has focused on the O. The D has been the priority until this year.
As we have seen, the D is much improved from when they got here so they have been quite successful in what they have focused on building. The jury is still out on how this draft will pan out. and yes, they had a five year plan. In years one and two the D was the focal point and as we have seen, they have had success there.
Like I said earlier, when it comes to Mangini you say they should have moved forward since they knew Mangini wasn't the answer. Then you turn around and blame when they know McCoy isn't the answer and do move forward.\ at the QB position.
Thanks for side stepping that one BTW.
We are starting over this year on O. Because this is the first year they are addressing the O. Just as we started over on D in the first two drafts. It's also the very first time we have "started over" on that side of the ball.
They built the D side first and now they're building the O side. Pretty simple for anyone looking at the facts concerning the first two drafts that is actually trying to be objective about it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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pit...it all comes out the same...
If Haslam begins changing everything by firing Holmgren and replacing him with Joe "the bean counter" Banner...making that change in the middle of the freaking season...it's just the beginning...
...then the rest of the franchise gets ripped up after the season.
It all works out the same as Haslam will have done exactly what he accused Al and Randy Lerner of doing...thus he will be 100% "hypocrite".
...and, by Haslam's own words, he will have set the Browns back 3 or 4 yrs.
It really doesn't matter whether Haslam starts by firing the coach or the President of the franchise...it will lead to wholesale changes by the time the dust settles in the spring of 2013.
...making Haslam no different than those he is criticizing.
No mac, it doesn't. If Haslam feels this FO hasn't made the srtides it has needed to make so far, he will install his FO and coach and will stick with it.
You make it sound as though he should be stuck with Lerners people no matter what and anything other than that makes him a hypocrite.
When what he was saying is this..... Once I hire people to be in charge, it will be for the long haul and I won't be blowing things up.
It will be his billion dollars at stake here. Not Lerners. And it will be who he chooses to be in charge, whether it's some of the people already here or not, that he will be investing in to make his business here profitable, not Lerners people. And it will be those people that he will stick with for a long period of time, not Lerners.
What you are suggesting here is just silly.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed. The media speaks of that failure as one of the reasons Holmgren's tenure here has been anything but stellar.
toad...do NFL teams target QBs in the 3rd round as being a "franchise QB"?
Was McCoy handed the unquestioned starting job in his 2nd year or was he not?
First year we bring in a washed-up vet and a never-was backup to hold the fort until McCoy was ready. Second year McCoy was handed the starting job unopposed.
McCoy could have been drafted in the 5th round but as long as the situation was the same where he was given the starting job with no backup plan in place the plan was obviously for McCoy to be "the man."
Don't even try to play semantics with the term "Franchise QB." Holmgren threw his weight around to get McCoy and handed him the job on a silver platter in the exact same way Savage handed the job to Frye. Savage didn't get a pass just because Frye was a 3rd rounder, and neither will Holmgren.
All that matters is how the moves were judged. Both Frye and McCoy cost this organization a couple of years each without a real QB, and the people who put those QB's in place have and will answer for it.
The Frye move helped cost Savage his job, and the McCoy move may ultimately be part of what cost Holmgren his.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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While I dont totally agree with Mac I do understand part of what he's saying. I also understand what you are saying. The real question I guess is does Haslam know what he's doing?
As Mac said he does understand that changing will set a team back 3-4 years those are the mans words he understands that. Haslem now has to decide if he needs to set this team back 3-4 years or not.
Then you also have the problem of if hes wrong in his hires how long will he stick with those people? We've lived in groundhog day for what 12 years?
After everything Ive read about Banner scares me more then any other hire Ive heard talked about. He's a true meddler that Toad says Holmgren is.
Remember how Holmgren played a bit of hard ball with Cribbs? People were calling to get the deal done. Hillis not so much but we did see how it afffects players. Thomas, deal done fast and easy, happy player.
Imagine Banner playing hard ball with Haden, Rubin, Taylor etc and bringing in a bunch of FA's. IDK the guy just scares me from what I've read as being more of a meddler then Holmgren has ever been.
For all our sanitys sake I hope it all works out and we return to glory.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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No offense intended, but I think that if you sit down today and worry about what haslam will or will not do, you could easily drive yourself nuts.
There really is only two things to expect if you are to believe what the man says (AND THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO AT THIS POINT)
Either he cleans house, hires new folks and sticks with them
or
He sticks with at least most of what he's got.
So much depends on how the team plays. We get 9 wins,, I still say holmgren is the only guy that might be gone,..
They win 7 or less,, All bets are off..
JMHO
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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Holmgren bet his reputation on McCoy and that bet failed. The media speaks of that failure as one of the reasons Holmgren's tenure here has been anything but stellar.
toad...do NFL teams target QBs in the 3rd round as being a "franchise QB"?
Was McCoy handed the unquestioned starting job in his 2nd year or was he not?
First year we bring in a washed-up vet and a never-was backup to hold the fort until McCoy was ready. Second year McCoy was handed the starting job unopposed.
McCoy could have been drafted in the 5th round but as long as the situation was the same where he was given the starting job with no backup plan in place the plan was obviously for McCoy to be "the man."
Don't even try to play semantics with the term "Franchise QB." Holmgren threw his weight around to get McCoy and handed him the job on a silver platter in the exact same way Savage handed the job to Frye. Savage didn't get a pass just because Frye was a 3rd rounder, and neither will Holmgren.
All that matters is how the moves were judged. Both Frye and McCoy cost this organization a couple of years each without a real QB, and the people who put those QB's in place have and will answer for it.
The Frye move helped cost Savage his job, and the McCoy move may ultimately be part of what cost Holmgren his.
Lol this is some funny stuff toad. Yeah when McCoy was drafted and Mike said he will not play for 3 years it was all a devious plan to get him playing in the 2nd year.
Savage was fired because he told fans to FO and was drafting horrid didnt do anything a GM is supposed to do and was out scouting. Your version is funny to read though.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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The fact remains that the Browns front office handed McCoy the job last year.
Now one can argue that he showed a fair amount the year before and deserved a shot to show what he could do, but he really was just handed the job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That was pretty much by default. Who else would you have suggested they given the starting job too?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'll grant that .... but they never even pretended to have a competition with Wallace.
I actually agreed with that too. I thought that McCoy showed some good things in his rookie year, and deserved a shot. Last year turned me off to his game though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'll grant that .... but they never even pretended to have a competition with Wallace.
Wallace already had 8 years in the league and they knew exactly what they had in Wallace already. No need to make an attempt to have a competition with someone they already knew was a career back-up IMO
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I actually agreed with that too. I thought that McCoy showed some good things in his rookie year, and deserved a shot. Last year turned me off to his game though.
Which is exactly why they handed him the job. If you are going to go with a guy, you give him your vote of confidence. He did show some positive signs in his rooie year. So they gave him last season to see if he would progress based on those signs.
After looking at those results, they decided to move on. Which is exactly the same reason Colt really didn't get a shot this year. They had already decided it was time to move on.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The fact remains that the Browns front office handed McCoy the job last year.
Now one can argue that he showed a fair amount the year before and deserved a shot to show what he could do, but he really was just handed the job.
Who else if not McCoy last year? We where not in a position to draft one unless you want to say Dalton in retrospect.
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We could have drafted someone else deeper into the draft if we had chosen to do so. However, the front office decided that McCoy was the guy based on his play the year prior. I had no problem with that, and, in fact, agreed with it.
The point is that people are complaining about Weeden being "handed the job", but that's what happened the year before as well with McCoy. The Browns could have had a competition between McCoy and Wallace fighting it out last pre-season, with the winner starting ..... but they didn't even use that pretense. Thus people should have a huge problem with handing a job to a new starter after McCoy failed so badly last year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We could have drafted someone else deeper into the draft if we had chosen to do so. However, the front office decided that McCoy was the guy based on his play the year prior. I had no problem with that, and, in fact, agreed with it.
The point is that people are complaining about Weeden being "handed the job", but that's what happened the year before as well with McCoy. The Browns could have had a competition between McCoy and Wallace fighting it out last pre-season, with the winner starting ..... but they didn't even use that pretense. Thus people should have a huge problem with handing a job to a new starter after McCoy failed so badly last year.
Yeah I understand that, but he had a pretty good preseason and I don't think anyone questioned his starting game one last year at that time.
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Yeah, he did.
However, even if he had struggled, he was still going to be the starter. The Browns were committed to him last year, just like they are to Weeden this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, he did.
However, even if he had struggled, he was still going to be the starter. The Browns were committed to him last year, just like they are to Weeden this year.
At least they pick one.
Remember the who's starting this week, DA or BQ debates?
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Was that when Romeo was Coach? Didn't he flip a coin?
oioioioi
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Was that when Romeo was Coach? Didn't he flip a coin?
Yes. Yes he did.
Somehow that genius got another head coaching job in the NFL.
you had a good run Hank.
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Was McCoy handed the unquestioned starting job in his 2nd year or was he not?
Toad...can you tell everyone what Seneca Wallace did to win the starting job last season?
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Was that when Romeo was Coach? Didn't he flip a coin?
Or drew sticks 
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No, it was a coin toss. But I was pretty much toasted at the time for saying what an ameturish way that was to make a call on the starting QB and how it was no big deal and I was making far too big of a fuss about it. Funny how time can change things. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Was McCoy handed the unquestioned starting job in his 2nd year or was he not?
Toad...can you tell everyone what Seneca Wallace did to win the starting job last season?
Nothing. Which is about the same as what Colt did to win it this year. I think you could make a better case for Seneca last year, than you could for Colt this year.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
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Was McCoy handed the unquestioned starting job in his 2nd year or was he not?
Toad...can you tell everyone what Seneca Wallace did to win the starting job last season?
Nothing. Which is about the same as what Colt did to win it this year. I think you could make a better case for Seneca last year, than you could for Colt this year.
osg...you're not toad...but you did come up with the right answer.
Wallace did nothing to win the starting job last season...not attending Camp McCoy workouts, going on the radio and stating it's not his job to mentor McCoy...a 9 year veteran in the second year of a $9 million contract, skating along.
It really was not a difficult decision for the Browns management, even if all of the above is ignored...Wallace did little to win the starting job. This season, Wallace didn't do enough to justify his $3 million salary and was cut in favor of McCoy...
...to date, I believe Wallace remains unemployed.
Like I said, the choice to keep McCoy was not difficult for the Browns management.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Wallace would have had $1 million of his salary guaranteed if he was on an opening day roster. Further, no QBs have been injured, so there haven't been openings for a veteran QB. Add in that 5 teams are running with rookie QBs, and they are all going to give those rookies every chance to succeed.
Besides, how many veteran players have been signed thus far since the season started?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...t_river_defaultBEREA, Ohio -- Following the Browns' 17-16 loss to the Eagles in the season opener, Browns coach Pat Shurmur looked out during his press conference and saw new owner Jimmy Haslam and his wife, Dee, sitting with the assembled media. Today, Haslam attended practice after meeting with Cleveland City Council this morning, and spent some time chatting on the field with Shurmur beforehand. But Shurmur, who's off to a 0-2 start, welcomes the involvement -- and the scrutiny -- from the Browns soon-to-be new top dawg. "He is around quite a bit,'' Shurmur said today. "He just spent a lot of money on a football team. He wants to get to know us and I admire that. I think that's good. And I encourage him, because I'm very proud of our operation. And I want him to be able to see it. I feel like we've established a relationship where we can communicate freely, which I think is good. It's got to be natural for the head coach and owner or prospective owner to be able to do that. I have a good relationship with Randy Lerner as well. I think it's pretty natural.'' He acknowledged that he needs to impress Haslam, and he knows just how to do it. "Anybody that hires me, or anybody that's watching what we do, I want to impress them because we all work for someone,'' he said. "I understand what's important in this league, and by impressing him -- it would be by winning games.'' Shurmur addressed a number of other topics during his pre-practice press conference today: • On the idea of Haslam exploring the possibly exploring a retractable roof: "I think there's advantages to (open air stadiums and domes). I like the setting that we present on gameday here. I'm not really trying to visualize anything at this point. Some of the charm, at least what I've experienced so far here in Cleveland, is kind of the late season wintery setting.'' • On Brandon's ball security: "He didn't have any problems with that this week, and there were times when there were guys around him swatting at it.'' • On Trent Richarson handling the ball 23 times last week: "Each guy's role goes up and down depending on the week and the game. That's a good number.'' • On Richardson playing more on third down: "Trent's an every down back. We will game-plan how we have to to get the best players on the field all the time. [Chris] Ogbonnaya was very effective for us in his role other than the fumble of course, but I felt like Obie played his role well. For a second game it was smart for us to do that -- take a little more off [Richardson's] plate. That's not to say Trent won't be out there in some third-down situations, because I think he can catch the ball and he knows how to block.'' • On tweaking the Browns' secondary: "I think we have one piece missing right now. We're trying to find the right combination, whether it be at safety or corner for us, what works. That's why you'll see different guys in there. We're just trying to find the right combination. ...On gameday, your role may (increase or decrease) and whatever your role is, you have to play it to the best of your ability and so we're looking for that right combination and I've got a lot of confidence in our defensive coaches that we'll get that right.'' • On cornerback Sheldon Brown's availability this week: "Sheldon will be in there. This is a team here, most of the time they play with three receiver sets. Most of the time we'll be playing with three corners. You'll see Sheldon in there quite a bit.'' • On Bills' running back C.J. Spiller: "He's an explosive guy. I gotta believe he's one of the fastest guys on their team if not in the league. When he gets some space, and they do a good on offense of giving their runner space, he has a chance to turn good ones into great ones and great ones into touchdowns.'' He said some it has to do with coaching "and some of it has to do with his skill and ability.'' In other Browns news: • Tight end Alex Smith and defensive tackle Billy Winn both suffered concussions Sunday. Smith sat out practice today, but Winn participated. Shurmur said Smith is day-to-day. • This week's game captain is center Alex Mack, chosen by the other three regular captains. • Safety Ray Ventrone, who sat out last week, practiced today with his hand heavily wrapped. Brown (neck), also practiced. • Defensive end Juqua Parker practiced today despite being carted off with a foot injury in Cincinnati.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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jc http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.s...t_river_default: Sunday, September 23, 2012, 7:22 PM Updated: Sunday, September 23, 2012, 7:22 PM By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer Follow John Kuntz, The Plain DealerDismay and frustration are clear on the faces of Brandon Weeden and Pat Shurmur after the Browns' rookie QB threw an interception late in the fourth quarter Sunday in the loss to the Buffalo Bills. CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Tell me again why Jimmy Haslam III should tread slowly in the name of continuity and stability? Really now. Why? To protect and serve up one of the stalest Sunday products in the league? Cleveland doesn't just need a new sheriff in town. Cleveland needs Haslam to be Batman. Browns' football is a crime right now. Sunday wasn't a simple trespassing by legions from Buffalo. It was full-fledged breaking and entering. As non-threatening a visitor as you'll find in the NFL, the Bills were losers of eight consecutive road games -- most by a landslide. Cheered on by a large and emboldened travel party of Buffalo fans Sunday, the Bills walked through the front door as if they owned the place. Modeled your favorite bathrobe. Put their feet up. Popped your best champagne while the neighborhood watch dozed. I say "your" because the youngest players on a young Browns team have only lost three in a row to start 2012. For them, the season is a puppy. You've lost nine, the longest streak in the NFL. Losing football is nothing new here, obviously. Sunday was different. Sunday was different in the stadium clearing out before the pumpkin crop has come in. Fans checking out in September (second home game) might be a record. It's hard to remember a bigger presence by an opposing fan base so early in a season. That's a matter of geographical proximity, of course, but it was still startling. "Embarrassing," Josh Cribbs called the scene in which Browns fans couldn't escape quickly enough and Buffalo invaders couldn't scream loud enough. "Maybe ... we need to put ourselves in the fans' shoes." Late in the fourth quarter, receiver Stevie Johnson waved his arms to the friendly crowd of celebrating Bills' fans strewn around the stadium as if he were directing a "Tastes Great, Less Filling" commercial. By then there weren't the home fan base numbers or the inclination to drown out Buffalo's Occupy Cleveland movement. The abundance of orange in the stadium was, sadly, not rain ponchos. View full sizeChuck Crow, The Plain DealerThe reaction of the largely pro-Buffalo fans who remained in Cleveland Browns Stadium for the final minutes of Sunday's game was easy to spot following Bryan Scott's final interception of Brandon Weeden. "I don't like it," linebacker D'Qwell Jackson said. "I don't like it whatsoever. I've been here a long time and I've never experienced that, and it's embarrassing. It's a shame we weren't able to put out a better effort than we did." What must Haslam be thinking? Stay the course? The shame came in waves. Falling behind, 14-0. Pausing at halftime to acknowledge the Browns' Hall of Famers and realizing this franchise's most recent warm memories are either graying at the temples or in need of a canes. With Buffalo coming in, and then losing its terrific running back, C.J. Spiller, this was a chance to inject less than riveting prospects for 2012 with some temporary meaning. Instead, the Browns showed up flat. A weary fan base followed their lead. Here we are 0-3 with games at Baltimore Thursday and at the defending Super Bowl champion New York Giants 10 days later. The question: Do they win a game before Haslam takes ownership in October? Sunday's scene is just another reminder for Haslam that he can't be as patient as Mike Holmgren and Tom Heckert were in putting this roster together. Time's a wastin'. Three years in, the wide receiver corps is Mohamed Massaquoi and a handful of projects. Tight end Jordan Cameron, one of them, stood out Sunday simply by consistently catching the ball. The Browns may have a lot of time to turn their record around. They'll have to do it while facing a much tougher schedule and a much better lineup of quarterbacks than the roll call of 2011. How do they turn it around? "We win a game," Shurmur said sharply. "That's how you turn it around." They haven't done that since Nov. 20, 2011. Before that Oct. 23. His four wins as head coach came against teams -- Miami, Indianapolis, Jacksonville and Seattle -- that were a combined 20-44 in 2011. Shurmur is in a difficult spot, riding the arm of a rookie quarterback and what looks like a weekly audition at wide receiver. Haslam is asking a lot of questions, making it a point to talk to fans. He didn't need to Sunday. Their actions spoke volumes.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Sad part is we are just starting year 3 of the plan and people are acting like its year 6. I understand its another tough loss for us as fans and them as players but my gosh cant the media even try to keep a handle on things?
Im not lying missing our best CB and 1 of our top DT and a group of young players on offense this is what I expected to see all season.
If Spiller had not gone down we probably would have lost by 50.
It is what it is when playing this many young players your not going to look perfect.
Doom and Gloom media will be running crazy for the next 2 weeks.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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true but in year 3 of a program you have to show progress......if you don't show tangible improvements after the 3rd year of a program, then its time to pull the plug on it...that sjust life.
if this team posts another 5, 4, 3, even 2 win season....we gotta cut bait and cast our fishing lines elsewhere....
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Quote:
true but in year 3 of a program you have to show progress......if you don't show tangible improvements after the 3rd year of a program, then its time to pull the plug on it...that sjust life.
if this team posts another 5, 4, 3, even 2 win season....we gotta cut bait and cast our fishing lines elsewhere....
Really, so if you paid someone to build you something, they say it will take 5 years to get it done and they have almost built the foundation at the start of year 3 looking for the roof or even walls is kinda unrealistic. You have the floor in place.
I still dont see how anyone ever expected us to win more then 5 games with so many rookies. I also dont see where people think there is some golden move a FO could make to have changed that.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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What foundation? I don't see a foundation. I see a bunch of promises and wishful thinking, but I sure don't see a foundation.
I see a team that can arguably be called the worst in the league, and we are in the 3rd year of Holmgren's regime.
There is no way to spin this.
Unless this team suddenly has a miraculous change of fortune, people better get ready for the inevitable. Haslam has no choice.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
What foundation? I don't see a foundation. I see a bunch of promises and wishful thinking, but I sure don't see a foundation.
I see a team that can arguably be called the worst in the league, and we are in the 3rd year of Holmgren's regime.
There is no way to spin this.
Unless this team suddenly has a miraculous change of fortune, people better get ready for the inevitable. Haslam has no choice.
This from the guy who told people to keep things in perspective because we are young and its going to take a while? I just dont get you sometimes.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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That's because you aren't keeping the context of my quotes in mind.
I talked about keeping things in perspective and that things were going to take a while. That isn't the same as saying the fans need to give the shot-callers more time. That was about not expecting wins with this roster, and that if people became impatient and had unrealistic expectations they would be severely disappointed.
A bunch of people are exceedingly angry about what they are seeing. I'd tell them again to be patient. Am I saying that because I want them to take a wait-and-see attitude with Holmgren and this roster? No. I'm saying that because they have unrealistic expectations. If they want to expect wins, they are going to have to wait longer...and be patient...for their own good.
Look, we aren't close to being a winner. We have holes all over this roster. The injuries are a crutch and an excuse, not a reason. This team isn't going to be decidedly better with Haden and Taylor out there. We had them last year.  We were bad on defense with them, and we're bad without them. We need an infusion of talent on both lines, at LB, in the secondary, and with the guys who catch footballs. Hell, there's nothing stating that Weeden is even an answer.
If a Browns fan was sitting next to me watching the game and started freaking out, I'd tell him to be patient. When he asks me why, I'd tell him the same thing I just told you, which is the same thing you're referencing:
This team was never going to win, so be patient and save your energies.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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No doubt in my mind that we are a better team than last year. Yes we are 0-3. But we are a handful plays away from being 3-0. I expect to see improvement as the season progresses. And will hold judgement until latr in teh year. If we show definite improvement and win 4 or our last 5 (even if those are our only 4 wins) especially is one is against the Steelers and the team looks more prepared and Shurmur shows improved decision making then I say we run with what we have. BUT if we continue to flounder without clear steps in the right direction then I have no problem with cleaning house.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Legend
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Quote:
What foundation? I don't see a foundation. I see a bunch of promises and wishful thinking, but I sure don't see a foundation.
toad...easy to understand why you don't see a foundation...you don't even recognize the 5 yr rebuilding plan.
On top of that, you have an obvious agenda...
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I see a team that can arguably be called the worst in the league, and we are in the 3rd year of Holmgren's regime.
That team is also the youngest team in the NFL in terms of NFL experience.
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Unless this team suddenly has a miraculous change of fortune, people better get ready for the inevitable. Haslam has no choice.
toad...WRONG...100% WRONG...
Haslam does have a choice...he can either make a hypocrite of himself by changing the coaching staff and front office...or stay the course knowing this team will get better each year.
Haslam pointed his finger at Al and Randy Lerner and said this, in his interview with Peter King....
One thing Haslam has judged -- critically -- very early is the Browns' coaching merry-go-round. "They've averaged a new coach once every 2.8 years [since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999],'' Haslam told me, "and that's just not a good recipe.'' Do the math: Excluding interim coach Terry Robiskie in relief of Butch Davis in 2004, Cleveland's had five head coach in the 14 seasons between 1999 and 2012 -- 2.8 seasons per coach.
"One thing I learned from watching the Steelers is the importance of consistency in coaching, and how much it sets you back when you're always making a change. When you change coaches, it can be a three- or four-year deal to get back.''
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Does Jimmy Haslam believe in what he says he learned while with the Steelers?
If Haslam makes the changes many are asking for, he will set the franchise back 3 or 4 yrs, according to his own philosophy.
One of the lessons Haslam needs to learn quickly, is to ignore the Cleveland media as well as the fans who have not a clue what building a franchise via the draft entails.
On this board, many have expectations that are unrealistic considering the experience level of the team....the youngest team in the NFL, in experience on the field.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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