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I disagree.
I think Weeden is well more than good enough that we don't HAVE to be urgently shopping for a QB. There shouldn't be a feeling of panic about it.
Yes, based purely on age, the timetables are pushed up, but his abilities are good enough (regardless of the tripe scattered about on here and elsewhere) that we should not be riding the Couch-Holcomb-Dilfer-Garcia-Somebody-sombody-sombody-dfssfsd-sdfs--dfds-- train any more. We actually have some breathing room.
People, don't forget that the greatest leap a player typically makes comes between rookie and second seasons. The "kid" has come a looooong way in a short period already, and he IS still getting better.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Look if you think Weeden is the answer fine. Say it.
I am over making comparisons. I look. I see.
I am not arguing the merits of Flacco versus Weeden.
Weeden does not look (to me) like a championship caliber quarterback. He has very little upside. He does not have and will not develop what it takes to win consistently. Again in my opinion.
I want a solution at quarterback not a 29 year old project. For over twenty years this organization has been unable to identify a true franchise quarterback. Their record reflects their incompetence.
Mike Holmgren came into town declaring that his most important decision would be on the quarterback. Well?
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Quote:
Look if you think Weeden is the answer fine. Say it.
I'm pretty sure that I have, many times.
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I am over making comparisons. I look. I see.
I am not arguing the merits of Flacco versus Weeden.
And yet, you use comparisons with Flacco, and the merits of Flacco specifically, to make the points in your rant. 
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Weeden does not look (to me) like a championship caliber quarterback. He has very little upside. He does not have and will not develop what it takes to win consistently. Again in my opinion.
Just bolding that for emphasis, because you make your statements as if they are absolute fact, and then add on that "it's just my opinion".
Note: it IS just opinion, and NOT fact.
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I want a solution at quarterback not a 29 year old project. For over twenty years this organization has been unable to identify a true franchise quarterback. Their record reflects their incompetence.
Mike Holmgren came into town declaring that his most important decision would be on the quarterback. Well?
Well?
So, you want what... draft another rookie project? A free agent re-tread?
FACT is, you don't KNOW that we don't have a solution at quarterback.
Personally, I think that we do - or, at least, a heckuva lot more than we've had in the last twenty years. He may never be Peyton Manning, but he is more than good enough to win with.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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He does not have and will not develop what it takes to win consistently.
Which is what exactly?
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Quote:
I disagree.
I think Weeden is well more than good enough that we don't HAVE to be urgently shopping for a QB. There shouldn't be a feeling of panic about it.
Help me out, Purp, because I'm not exactly sure what it is I said which you disagree with.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Pretty much the entire post I responded to. Quote:
I would argue that "pretty good" isn't an option.
He's 29 and we spent a 1st round pick on him. If he gets to Joe Flacco territory when he's 33 and doesn't become elite, we'll have made a mistake and the selection will have been a failure.
The gamble we took set teh stage to where only "great" will have made it worth-while because we'll have spent a 1st round pick on a guy who'll play 6 years and only at a "good" level for a few of those.
What's messed up to consider is that Weeden could be out of the league before Flacco based solely on age. Flacco is 27.
It's "great" or "bust" with Weeden.
"Pretty good" is an option for us, and a darned good option at that.
"Great" or "Bust" is a bunch of baloney, IMO... of course, that also has the convenience of being determined by how you determine "great" and "bust". He worked out for us? Oh, that's Great! lol.
And, he's a failure if he doesn't become "elite"? Are you actually serious with that? If he makes it to upper 50% of the league he'll be the best QB we've had since Kosar.... given the futility we've trotted out, and the epic wastes of money we threw away on 1st rounders when they were actually expensive, that's a bargain.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just because we have had crap doesn't mean we should accept mediocrity.
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Weeden actually throws the ball in a professional manner. He's a top end throwing talent.
Why don't we see if he can become a top end QB before we throw him back into the ocean?
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I say we ride Weeden's arm at least until Johnny Football is Draft Eligible..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It's "great" or "bust" with Weeden.
Really? 
Yet TRich is allowed to be one of the worst RBs in his rookie season and even if he doesn't reach AP level it was a good pick
Oh look, another hypocritical agenda post by the Frog 
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First off my comparisons were not only to Flacco.
This is what I said:
Harbaugh goes to SF resurrects Alex Smith. Goes after Manning. Moves up in the draft and takes Kaepernick in the second round.
Ozzie find Flacco out of Deleware State 18th overall. The Steelers get Ben from Miami University of Ohio 11th in the draft.
But if you want to compare Weeden to Flacco ok.
Flacco is 27 these are few of his accomplishments:
First rookie quarterback to start all sixteen games and make the playoffs (shared with Matt Ryan)
First rookie quarterback to win two playoff games[18]
Most starts by a quarterback in first season: 19
Most starts by a quarterback in first two seasons: 37
Most starts by a quarterback in first three seasons: 55
Most starts by a quarterback in first four seasons: 73
Most wins by a quarterback in first 60 consecutive starts: 40
Most combined regular and postseason wins in first three years as a quarterback: 36 (tied with Dan Marino)[19]
First quarterback to start and win a playoff game in each of his first four seasons [20]
Most regular season wins by a quarterback in his first four seasons: 44 [20]
===========================================================
Weeden is not in the same league as Flacco and he is two years younger.
I want a solution at quarterback. Draft a QB until you find one that can win consistently.
Fix the problem so you have a chance to compete for titles.
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I hope you're aware that chasing my tail in every thread is bordering on "creepy" and that I'd imagine even the posters who don't much care for me are growing very bored with it.
Turning a very specific discussion about Weeden into a Richardson one...again...is taking you into Mac territory. 
Time to let it go.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Do you think Joe Flacco would have any of those achievements if he had been drafted by the Browns in 2008?
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Quote:
I would argue that "pretty good" isn't an option.
Which is what I was arguing.. that's why I put it in quotes.
yebat' Putin
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Sorry Prp, gotta call you out on this one... Quote:
Just bolding that for emphasis, because you make your statements as if they are absolute fact, and then add on that "it's just my opinion".
Note: it IS just opinion, and NOT fact.
You are correct, Anything said with respect to Weeden's ceiling or how fast he will get there is nothing but opinion and speculation... whether you think it's high or low or if he will hit it next year or in 2016, doesn't matter... all opinion and speculation...
So I will ask,
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He may never be Peyton Manning, but he is more than good enough to win with.
How do you know that? ... or is that just your opinion?
yebat' Putin
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He does not have and will not develop what it takes to win consistently.
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Which is what exactly?
=========================================================
Decision making. The ability to process information rapidly and make the correct read.
Consistent accuracy. When guys are wide open you do not miss them. Not just completion percentage.
Handling pressure. Pocket awareness. Knowing when to move and the ability to deliver the ball from numerous positions under pressure.
Leadership. Leadership is the "natural " ability to lead others. It comes from confidence and is displayed by performance under pressure. It is a natural ability but it must demonstrated by example.
Mobility. Weeden has some mobility. But, his mobility is not the type that is a plus asset to his game.
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Sorry Prp, gotta call you out on this one...
Quote:
Just bolding that for emphasis, because you make your statements as if they are absolute fact, and then add on that "it's just my opinion".
Note: it IS just opinion, and NOT fact.
You are correct, Anything said with respect to Weeden's ceiling or how fast he will get there is nothing but opinion and speculation... whether you think it's high or low or if he will hit it next year or in 2016, doesn't matter... all opinion and speculation...
So I will ask,
Quote:
He may never be Peyton Manning, but he is more than good enough to win with.
How do you know that? ... or is that just your opinion?
hehe! It is my opinion. I base that opinion on the idea that the majority of the games we have lost have not been lost because of him. Don't get me wrong - he's made a TON of mistakes, but that happens with a rookie. This offense has scored plenty of points, and enough to have won many of our games. Yes, they need to be better, and I believe they will be, but it's a team game, and our defense - for all the love they get - has let us down as much as the offense has.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I hope you're aware that chasing my tail in every thread is bordering on "creepy" and that I'd imagine even the posters who don't much care for me are growing very bored with it.
Turning a very specific discussion about Weeden into a Richardson one...again...is taking you into Mac territory.
Time to let it go.
You going the "personal" route and not tackling what's being discussed is very telling....comparing me to mac, really Toad? Great, I can give you a KendallStorm stamp...happy now? How old are we?
I made 2 answers to your posts, that pretty much said the same...TRich getting all world of excuses, Weeden is "great or bust"...that's bull and I flagged it as such. The I read your masterpiece in the Pitt game forum, which basically said the same but it had me  because of the rhetoric and I didn't want anyone on here to miss a good laugh 
Also, this is a "rook" thread...so bringing up TRich in comparison to Weed's perfomance isn't outlandish I'd say
You call it "creepy", I call it arguing/desputing a prolonged and fine (I'll give you that) rhetoric you keep hammering to persuade posters....that's the game...everyone offers an opinion and it's open to discussion. You don't like it? Then argue IT, not the poster....or don't respond at all
Back to topic:
Right now, I'd list our rookies like this, considering perfomance compared to league competition, expectation level, position and draft value
1. Schwartz...above AVG RT already, exceptional development and consistency
2 Gordon...very promising rookie campaign. WR isn't the easiest position to have success as a rook, especially for rooks who didn't even play for a year before they got drafted. Great and fast development, quick learner, seems like a smart dude and gaining trust of coaches and QB, steadily has become more consistent with every week
3a Winn...already at below AVG starter level, strength/stamina and thus consistency issues but that can be corrected, versatile and uncommon disruptive quickness for a DT....great value for a comp 6th rounder
3b Hughes...only slightly below Winn because he was picked in the 3rd. So much for the "epic overdraft", he already looks like an above AVG no3 rotational DT with deent no2 spot start value and those are as valuable as good nickel CBs...Rubin, Taylor, Winn, Hughes are both (at least one of) the BEST and YOUNGEST 4 deep DT rotation in this league
4 Weeden....no rookie left that plays anywhere near AVG NFL level (that's tough to do though for a rook QB), so I'll go with the QB because of positional value and transition time excuse. He's been up and down, but his worst game was week 1 and he does have 5 games of 10 with a QB rating north of 80, 4 of them over 90...that's at least 5 games where he was good enough to win with. One game vs SD he had a rating of 55 but that was the "weather game"...so going by his rating his 3 worst games since week 1 have been both BAL games and vs BUF....I think that's accurate.
5 JMJ...not much to evaluate him. He looks like a good in the box LB vs the run who has some trouble taking correct angles to the sidelines and in pursuit. I think he's a MLB in a 4-3, the scouting reports probably were right, his best fit was 3-4 ILB...looks like decent mid 4th round value though
6 TRich...incredibly disappointing. Only 4 games with an AVG of 4yds or better, only 2 with 5+ and one of them was in the slippery SD game, with sunshine-accustomed SD defenders had a hard time with footing and tackling. He had as many games with an AVG under 3yds (!)...ranks among last in ypc with the likes of Greene, BJGE and Benson. Considering the easy position to transition and the incredibly high investment (top 5 + 4th + 5th + 7th) he's been easily the biggest disappointment
7 Benjamin...I know he only was a high 4th rounder, but to me he looks like a busted pick. He simply has ZERO physicality in him and considering his built it's understandable, I don't expect him to run people over, but he never fights for balls in the air...I think half of Weeden's INTs were intended for him and most of them could have been avoided if he would have faught for the ball in the air. Silently has been passed down the depth chart and deservedly so. I see a complementary WR at best....he better make some noise as a RET next season or this could be a short NFL career. As with Hughes I trusted Heckert on the selection, as I wasn't a fan of both...looks like a hit and a miss
I left out the other rooks, as they haven't played enough imho
Summary: 4 of those 7 already are near NFL AVG level and look like safe bets for a NFL career past their rookie contract. 2 others have a very high ceiling left and will most certainly improve every season and look like legit NFL talents on their good days. 6 out of 7 is pretty good and Benjamin, as a WR, has some hope left too. To that group one or more of Miller, Acho, Smelley, Cooper, Wade, Bademosi, Gipson, Carder, Kitchen, Cameron, Fort could emerge as viable NFL talent in the next 2 seasons, though the odds are heavily against them at this point
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Yes, they need to be better, and I believe they will be, but it's a team game, and our defense - for all the love they get - has let us down as much as the offense has.
The simple fact is that neither unit has been able to make the plays that win games when they needed to...
yebat' Putin
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Prp, I don't necessarily disagree with you about Weeden. My criticisms lately have been harsh, but that's because I am not seeing the growth I was hoping to see. I am still holding out hope for him, and I would like him to go into next year as the starter, but here are some things I think we should all be a little leery of:
1. You and DJ seem to be falling into the trap of "Weeden is better than anything we've had in a long time". While that may be true, that shouldn't be the litmus test or the question we should be asking ourselves. The question we should be asking is "Is it good enough?". I'm not a big stats guy, but you can make a case for Weeden being a bottom 10 QB with just the eye test. In this particular case, the stats confirm it (that's not always the case) to be true as well. He has regressed as the season has gone along. Over the last 3 games he has left numerous plays and scores out on the field. You can practically see Shurmur begging him to the throw the ball to the open guy when Weeden returns to the sideline.
2. He has not put the team on his shoulders once this year and delivered. I am blowing this one out of proportion a bit since he is a rookie, but when you see a QB lead his team on a comeback, it demonstrates skill, a desire to win, and some cajones. All three ingredients needed for consistent success in this league. Being that every game of ours is close and we have had ample opportunities late to come up with a signature drive, I find this quite discouraging. Luck and RG3 have had those signature drives. Those are moments that tell you whether or not you have a guy you can with. Sometimes it's just sheer will. That rubs off on the other guys and they believe. Weeden looks scared of the big moment ... which leads me to point 3 ...
3. I really wonder if Shurmur is ruining Weeden. As we've seen, he has regressed over the last few games. I wonder if Shurmur has him wound so tight and he's so afraid of making a mistake and if that has caused the regression. If this is happening, we have to hope with a change in leadership, that Weeden can get back on the trajectory he was on earlier in the season.
And as a side note, and I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face, this team will never start winning until our playmakers make one more play than the other teams. Most games come down to a play or two. Our guys never make that play ... it always goes the other way ... this is why I've been so hard on Weeden and this is why I keep making it a point that he has no signature play, drive, game this year. We will not win games until our Weedens, Richardsons, Hadens, start making those plays.
He's a rookie and those may be harsh criticisms, but if we go into next year with him as the starter and he hasn't improved in any of these areas, look for another 3-6 win season. I'm getting tired of all these 3-6 win seasons. I just want some signs that he's the guy, and I'm not getting them. Being better than McCoy or better than anything we've had since 1999 is not a sign to me. We need to see more. We need to see perfect accuracy when a guy is WIDE open. We need to see some balls, some guts, some moxy. Right now, I just don't know if there is anything to hang our hats on long-term.
I'll also say that if Weeden was showing these signs I think you would hear Haslam, Banner, and Childress step up and say Weeden is our guy going forward. They have all been non-commital, and I think that speaks volumes. I think they are seeing things on game day and on tape that they are wondering if Weeden can get them corrected or not. I think there are some concerns there.
But I'll also say it's time the Browns actually DEVELOPED a QB. And in that regard, Weeden is as good as any to develop. You just have to hope he can.
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes, they need to be better, and I believe they will be, but it's a team game, and our defense - for all the love they get - has let us down as much as the offense has.
The simple fact is that neither unit has been able to make the plays that win games when they needed to...
Except Sheldon Brown with the pick-6 vs CIN.
And his strip fumble-6 that wasn't this past game.
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[Except Sheldon Brown with the pick-6 vs CIN.
And surprise, we won the game.
The talent level from team to team in the NFL isn't that different.
It's who's going to make the plays with the game on the line.
Who on the Browns is going to do that?
We certainly can't depend on Sheldon Brown to be that guy.
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Right. We can't rely on him to do that every game. But he is one guy and has made (what should have been) the game-sealing play in 20% of our games this year.
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I was agreeing with you cleve. Sorry if it didn't come across that way.
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Yeah, that was just to DC's point. We only have one guy who has stepped up to make "the play" a couple times this year, and it's a guy with declining abilities. We need the young guys to step up, because Sheldon can't do it every game.
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Jesus Rish, the guy has started 10 games in his career....EVERY rook QB is a bottom 3rd QB after his first 10 starts, so are Luck, Tannehill, so were Roethli, Flacco etc Also, EVERY QB misses wide open WRs EVERY game....you just dont know it because you don't watch every snap of their career like you do with Weeden. I'm NOT willing to hold on to Weeden because he's better than what we had before, that's a strawman guys like you always bring up, not me....I want to see more of Weeden because he has shown he can move the Offense and make all the throws. You think any QB entering the draft is better than Weeden? Think twice because there ain't any Luck's or RG3's this time around...far from it What you want is an experienced virgin...you, like more and more Brownsfans, are so fed up with our W-L record that you're willing to throw anybody in the trash can just for the sake of "more hope"....with all due respect Rish, but I think that's incredibly stupid and not a cure to our problems. The worst part though is, it's ALL about our record, that's why Weeden gets trashed...if Fort catches the Vick pass, Gordon the Weeden bomb in Indy and Haden was playing in the DAL game....just right there (and we both know there were more)....3 little things that have NOTHING to do with Weeden, as in: he would not have played better or worse than he has...and we'd be 5-5...are you seriously going to tell me that you would be willing to throw away Weeden if we were 5-5? I'm pretty positive you would open up threads how he is our next Roethlisberger and anyone suggesting we should move on from Weeden would get reactions like Kendall in his Joe Thomas thread....please think about that for one minute, I know you will, thanks 
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Quote:
Back to topic:
'Bout time.
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1. Schwartz...above AVG RT already, exceptional development and consistency
Agreed. After a rough but hardly unexpected start, he's coming along. This week against Woodley and the rest will be a great litmus test to see where he's at.
No real point to quoting each guy. That's just taking up space. So...
Gordon...Has shown the physical abilities to do the job. Hasn't had the drops that Little had last year but hasn't shown great hands either. He's bobbled a few that should have been simple catches. That could be rust. Still learning the position but for the situation he was taken in he's done some good things. If a 2nd round guy who didn't play last year comes in and gives us 35 catches and averages 19 yards per, that would be considered a success. Just have to hope his personal issues with not being able to put down the bong doesn't come into play.
Winn has to be considered a huge success for where he was taken. He's a very active guy who has already become a decent rotational player. Really would love to see him moved out to DE for an extended period to see how he'd react.
Hughes to me has been outplayed by Winn but has given decent work. 3rd rounders are expected to contribute some in the trenches and he has. Not nearly as bad as the "reaching" label suggested.
Weeden has played pretty-much to his scouting report. He started out hotter than expected, but has come back to Earth. To me the only surprise is that he's been far too willing to dump the ball down. That has kept his INT's down, but also his production. Accuracy, decision-making, presence in the pocket, facing pressure...all have been about as expected. People can excuse this moment or dismiss that moment but when push comes to shove he's played about as well as expected. Considering his age, it should be expected that he starts to make some big strides in the last part of the season. While you can't rush maturity, one of the big reasons given for taking him in spite of his ancient age was his ability to use his maturity to get past mistakes and not make them again. It's time to do that.
Richardson is on pace for 1000 yards and leads the team in receptions despite injuries, a rookie QB, and a line that doesn't do well at opening holes. Had moments where he's looked like a rookie but has otherwise been our best offensive weapon. Would like to have seen him really light things up but has given us value.
Benjamin only has 9 catches but only 23 targets. Some of those were dumb ideas, where Weeden was throwing to him down the sideline against bigger DB's. That's not ever going to be his game. Was used early in the season but less lately as we've tried to develop Little and Gordon. Wasn't expecting him to light things up or get a bunch of targets but I was expecting him to be used more on gadget plays. Not too many 4th round rookies make an impact at WR, especially on a team with a rookie QB. Way too early to call him a busted pick, as he was a developmental guy from the get-go. I believe he was drafted to eventually replace Cribbs in the return game so his value hasn't been established yet with Cribbs still on the roster.
Cooper. Gotta mention him. Undrafted free agents don't make contributions very often. Was pulled off the practice squad in the middle of the year. Has only 7 catches but 6 were for 1st downs. Would have been 8 catches for 7 first downs but Weeden missed him last game. Considering what he is and his limited abilities, he's been a plus. I think it'll be a battle between he and Benjamin as the slot-guy for Weeden going into next year. If he manages to give us 12-15 catches with a continued high percentage of first downs he'll have to be considered a good signing.
The rest? TBD.
Gonna break a rule here and call Craig Robertson a rookie. He was signed to our practice squad for the last 2 games of last year. He's given us 55 tackles with a sack and 2 INT's. That's some serious work for a nobody thrust into serious playing time.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Don't put words in my mouth.
Although I've been critical lately, I've stated my desire to continue with Weeden, not draft a new guy. You read one sentence and jump to all kinds of conclusions. My overall message is one of disappointment and not seeing the progress I want to see. And you greatly underestimate Browns fans. When DA was leading us to a 10-6 record, the number of fans that wanted him shipped out of town was greater than the number that wanted to retain him. Had nothing to do with the record. The record is what drives talking heads.
And I watch a lot of football. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over who watches more, but most average to above average starting QBs do not miss WIDE OPEN WRs in the manner that Weeden has this season ... you can try to lead the horses on this board to that well all you want, but it simply isn't true.
I agree Weeden can make all the throws and occasionally move the offense ... unless he's missing wide open WRs or it's the 4th quarter when we need him the most. Other than being able to make all the throws and occasionally move the offense, what have you seen to pin your hopes on. If you just want to give him more time, I can live with that. But it would bring me much more comfort to be able to point to something else besides a lively arm.
Believe it or not, our views on him aren't that much different. I've just been very critical lately because I am disappointed in his lack of progress. Is progressing asking for too much after 10 games? That's probably a debate for another time.
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My criticisms lately have been harsh, but that's because I am not seeing the growth I was hoping to see.
Perhaps your expectations are what need to be replaced, and not the players we have?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Touche. But when you average 4 wins a year, someone better up the expectations. Hopefully, Haslam is that guy.
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EVERY rook QB is a bottom 3rd QB after his first 10 starts, so are Luck, Tannehill, so were Roethli, Flacco etc
Neat how you put every in caps and then left RGIII off the list... and Luck is 6-4 with the 26th ranked defense and a couple game winning drives/comebacks to his credit.
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so were Roethli, Flacco etc
Roethlisberger started 13 games his rookie year and completed 66% of his passes, had 17 TDs and 11 INTs, an 8.9 YPA, and a rating of 98.1, and went 13-0 ... if that was bottom third, it must have been one hell of a year for QBs.
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I'm NOT willing to hold on to Weeden because he's better than what we had before, that's a strawman guys like you always bring up, not me....
Regardless, plenty of people have used that in their argument as to why I should be happy with his play...
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if Fort catches the Vick pass, Gordon the Weeden bomb in Indy and Haden was playing in the DAL game....
Weeden had every opportunity in those games to be the guy who made a play as well.. how many INTs did he throw in the Eagles game but it's the rookie LB who should have made the play to win it? If Weeden plays at all we would have had a 3 touchdown lead in that game, the defense did more than it's share.
In the Colts game in our final 5 possessions we had 4 first downs and 0 points and 2 of those drives started on Indys side of the field.... but again, it's a different rookie that needed to make the one play to win the game.
In the Dallas game the WRs saved Weedens butt any number of times by making big catches to extend drives and the defense only gave up 20 points even with the debacle in the secondary.. without the defense and special teams giving us the ball back on their 17 late in the game after Weeden through a fade route into the 4th row, we probably would have scored 13 points and been done in regulation..
See you seem to be advocating that a lot of rookies should step up and make plays.. just not the QB. Because your premise is that we would be 5-5 if these other guys would just step up and make a play... Weeden got credit for a win in which he scored on our first possession and then did nothing the entire rest of the game..
yebat' Putin
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but it's a team game, and our defense - for all the love they get - has let us down as much as the offense has.
^ This.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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It should be noted that Weeden has received far better pass protection than the other rookies.
And the other QB's throw to much better, much more experienced and savvy WR's.
You can only play with who you play with.
I'm too lazy to do the math leg-work, but I do wonder how the comparisons hold up if you were to throw out the high & low game for each player and the recalculate... the only reason I say that is I suspect that Weeden's opening game of horridness against Philly really holds down his averages.
I did it a couple of games ago. It made a huge difference. He had 4 picks in the game and threw for under 50% of his 52 passes.
This place has become a joke. People are already saying he is a bum. I don't know if people are serious or they're rushing to judgement in case it turns out to be the case. The only rookie QB who hasn't had an awful game is Griffin. I don't know if it is because of the offense they have him running or he has truly been that good week in and week out.
#gmstrong
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Griffin looked pretty awful against the bumblebee Squeelers.
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Touche.
But when you average 4 wins a year, someone better up the expectations.
Hopefully, Haslam is that guy.
So it's the W-L record now? Didn't you say it wasn't about the number of wins? I still don't believe it....if we were 5-5, as we could be and even better without changing ANY Weeden play, than NOBODY would question Weeds
I agree with Purp, it's the expectations...you look at AVG to above AVG QBs...in this day's NFL those guys are Schaub, Cutler, Flacco etc...the level of QB play has risen (mostly due to rule changes, just look at the QB ratings now and 10-20 years ago)...so if you comapre a rook QB to above AVG to AVG NFL vets it means 2 things:
1. He has done enough/given enough flashes to elevate the expectation level (proof: McCoy lovers have shut it down rather quickly haven't they?)
and
2. Whoever judges him forgets that he's a rook and has just started 10 games and there are re-adjustments to be made to the league adjustments...it's my "experienced virgin" argument. You want it now and without the growing pains...it doesn't exist
Luck (who has 17 TOs in 10 games !), RG3 and Tannehill (5 INTs in last 2) are going through the same things, they all got better and better and all of a sudden have a couple of crap games thrown in just as Weeds
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Don't twist my argument....I said pretty clearly that Weeden could have played EXACTLY like he did, good and bad, and we could easily be 5-5 or better and that THEN nobody would complain about him, I didn't say I EXPECTED the other guys to make those plays althoug it is MUCH easier to catch a wide open bomb than to throw it, it is much easier to win with your no1 and 3 CBs in a 13-0 game at halftime etc etc
I could explode though when people like you bring up the 4th down fade as a play where he "failed" to deliver but simply forget the fact that the 2nd half was put TOTALLY on TRich's back and he was the one that failed his team by not delivering...he got WAY more touches starting the 2nd half and HE was the one doing nothing...time after time. Where's the accountability for that failure? I don't see any around here? TRich gets 3 straight runs from the 6 and doesn't score, he fails a crucial 3rd down that was a GOOD call, but everyone is up in arms about a 4th down fade crap call Weeden had to execute....hypocrisy at its finest
Also, the WR bailing out argument is a weak one since the last 9 games before the WRs failed him by dropping a league leading number of catches....how would we think about Weeds today if Gordon and Littel catch those passes in the Indy and BAL game in the EndZone? You also simply ommitt the fact that his 2 TD passes were beautifully thrown passes, threading the needle, esp. the 1st one...but somehow that's taken for granted
How did Flacco look in our 2nd game against us? It was EXACTLY the same game Weeds had this week vs DAL....good start, crap 2-3 Qtrs and then a game winner late with little time left (he was aided by big runs, Weeds by the Cribbs RET and penalty)...then his D closed it down and ours didn't in the DAL game (with help from the refs, I'm not even sure S.Brown made a PI on that play to Harris, that was tight coverage on a underthrown pass....Harris is a diver, no joke, he did it before on Skrine in the game...he should play soccer)
Sure he could have made EVEN MORE plays, but FACT is that he converted 2 of his 3 EndZone throws into TDs and OTHER guys be it TRich or on D didn't even make ONE play like that...yet people keep greedily asking for more plays from the rook QB instead of the Top 5 pick RB or the D....Weeden and the D got us the comfy HT lead, it was up to the D and TRich to keep us up....THEY all failed in the 2nd half imho but at least Weeden and the D had good moments in the 2nd half too (TD and the stop before that).....so who is left with doing nothing? Maybe look at him for a change?
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Richardson is on pace for 1000 yards and leads the team in receptions despite injuries, a rookie QB, and a line that doesn't do well at opening holes. Had moments where he's looked like a rookie but has otherwise been our best offensive weapon. Would like to have seen him really light things up but has given us value.
You still keep up with the spin of total yds? lol
Even homers can see through that since you can sign ANY street free agent RB and he gives you 1k yds if you give him the ball 300 times...how does 67yds per game sound? probably as sexy as 195yds passing huh? Weeden AVG 230yds btw and is on pace for 3700yds...so what?
Best offensive weapon? Are you serious? He looked best when Weeden had strong games with deep passes, the moment we put the burden on him he failed....time and time again. He had only 2 games with an AVG over 5yds per carry, 4 with 4 or better....that's 6 games where his production was crap...best offensive weapon?
So, you're on record for saying Weeden has played up to expectations (I slightly disagree that he's done better than expected but that's debatable)....would you say TRich has played "up to expectations"? I can't wait for your answer
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I think that Weeds has been up and down ..... which is to be expected. He has had some guys make plays for him, and he has had guys just blow up plays for him.
Here's the really funny thing.
Last year we scored a total of 218 points for the entire year.
Thus far this year we have scored 189 through 10 games. Now 1 TD last year was a PRTD, and we have had 2 INT TD this year ...... but still, we are so far ahead of last year that it's incredible. We are scoring 5.3 PPG more this year than last. This is with rookies galore.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My pre season expectations were higher, but when his injuries and the ineffectiveness of our offensive line is brought into play, I'm going to be content with 1100 yards and 60 catches. I factor the lines excellent pass blocking into Weedens personal evaluation, which is as it should be.
And we've yet to see you acknowledge the poor run blocking by our line. Of course that would undermine your stance on Richardson, so I would completely ignore that topic too
Now, I get to say I was wrong about his dive play last week. He says he was responsible. Now we get to see if you can say you were wrong about his "ego" getting in the way.
I now await your answer
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I've said multiple times that the run blocking has improved a lot from bad to now 20ish (read: below AVG, which is good enough to gain more than 3.7yds, esp. if the RB is as good as he's been touted to be)...so no, I never acknowledged the "bad" run blocking because I differ in opinion....it's far from good, but it has improved enough to make a better AVG than 3.7yds proof for that is the better production from Hardesty to TRich in the games they both got carries (3.55yds to 3.8yds...and that includes TRich's "weather aided" game vs SD where he had 5.1yds)....Hardesty has been far more consistent and he's hardly the back anyone wants TRich being compared to, right? As for the EGO thing, I was spot on with my suspicion on the dive play and the 3rd&4 pitchout dancing play...I had a "uneasy" feeling when he was all mouth in the pregame press, I think he got some over-inflated EGO due to all the hype, at that age of his, totally understandable ...that's all I ever meant with EGO as I explained elsewhere. He's a good guy, not a locker room cancer but he needs some humbling on ON FIELD stuff...maybe someone should hand him a list of starting RBs listed by ypc, that should do it
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