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Also, I think it is fun for a lot of females who enjoy shopping and love finding a deal. It is also good for families trying to save money. The men are not so much going to be into it. I think most men would rather stab themselves in the eye before fighting crowds on thursday or friday.
When did you become a sexist.
#gmstrong
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Man, the internet is such a blessing ......
I don't even have to set foot into a store to buy most stuff if I don't want to.
I am probably going to order every Christmas gift I give this year online instead of going into stores.
Also,l as far as Black Friday sales ..... I was reading that some stores are doing online Black Friday sales for those who sign up for their email ads.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Also, I think it is fun for a lot of females who enjoy shopping and love finding a deal. It is also good for families trying to save money. The men are not so much going to be into it. I think most men would rather stab themselves in the eye before fighting crowds on thursday or friday.
When did you become a sexist.
Im not a sexist. Its just truth. I personally dont shop on black friday because I cant deal with crowds. But I got dragged to the mall plenty of times when I was a kid. And it was all women and children. In my house, the women went shopping and the men went golfing.
No Craps Given
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Also, I think it is fun for a lot of females who enjoy shopping and love finding a deal. It is also good for families trying to save money. The men are not so much going to be into it. I think most men would rather stab themselves in the eye before fighting crowds on thursday or friday.
When did you become a sexist.
Im not a sexist. Its just truth. I personally dont shop on black friday because I cant deal with crowds. But I got dragged to the mall plenty of times when I was a kid. And it was all women and children. In my house, the women went shopping and the men went golfing.
I have to share my favorite shopping story .......
About 15 years ago, I was dating this girl, and she loved to shop. I mean, she could leave at 7 AM and not get home till after 10 PM. lol
I needed to pick up a pair of dress pants, so I asked her if she wanted to go to the mall with me. I never went shopping with her, so I figured it would be nice to go do something she enjoyed.
I parked at the one end of the mall, the Sears end, went in, and found a pair of dress pants in the right size, and the right color. I picked them up to go buy them. My girlfriend was horrified.
She said, "What are you doing???????"
I said, "I found my pants and I'm going to pay for them."
She said, "You can't do that!!!! You have to go to ALL of the stores, and see what they have. You have to check ALL of the prices to make sure that you aren't paying too much."
I said, "Nah, these are the right size, and the price is right. I'm done."
She told me that when she would go with her girlfriends, they would go to all of the stores, then have lunch and talk about what they saw, then go back and double check ..... then finally go buy what they wanted. I told her that was too much work for me on my day off. lol
For some reason she never went shopping with me for the rest of the time we were together. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Wal Mart does not care about the experience that customers have inside their stores. Wal Mart does not care about where the stuff in their stores is manufactured.
All Wal Mart cares about is making money hand over fist and giving it to the select few at the top.
What does any of that have to do with employees breaking their promises and walking out on their jobs?
If justification is what you're trying to get at, you haven't given any.
And for the record, my political voting records are more Democrat than Republican. I consider myself a hard-line Independent with zero political affiliations. I don't believe in Wal-mart's practices, but I do believe that when you sign an application that says you agree to work weekends and holidays, that you are then obligated to work weekends and holidays.
If you don't agree with the agreement you made, then you have a choice: Show up to work or quit and find another job. To intentionally screw the company that you signed an agreement with colors you as a vindictive ass.
This country is filled with people who feel they are owed something for free. This move by these people stink of the things that represent the bigger picture, like the failings of the well-fare system.
The American dream is earned, not given. Not everyone can be rich. Not everyone can be middle-class.
To quote a great man..."The world needs ditch-diggers, too..."
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They shouldn't walk out, but the company should provide them with some decent healthcare. My sister worked there years ago, and said their plan was nothing great. Every kid in that family is worth at least 20 billion. Take care of your good workers.
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Maybe, but the failings of the company in terms of compensation packages have nothing to do with choosing to work or not work. Those are two very different conversations.
The cheapness of the company isn't justification for walking out on your shift any more than it's justification for the company to withhold a person's paycheck because they only gave 90% effort in a given week.
Don't like the terms of compensation when offered the job? Don't take the job.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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In my house, the women went shopping and the men went golfing.
Got any single sisters? 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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In my house, the women went shopping and the men went golfing.
Got any single sisters?
LOL nah she is married with children.
No Craps Given
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Do you know when people started taking what I say seriously?
#gmstrong
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Umm...When Sus scrofa domesticus succeed in achieving aviation?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I've worked all the major holidays before... it's not fun, but I knew going into my job that i might have to work them at some point... and those times I did I choose to celebrate the holiday with my family on another day....
but I do agree that I think it's silly for these stores to be open on thanksgiving... Friday I get... Thursday I don't....
These stores forcing all their employees to work Thanksgiving is my concern. It's extremely what these Black Friday ads have come to. It used to be "Black Friday" but now they are pushing it further and further into Thanksgiving. These is very new to retail and is a trend that needs to stop and bring back the old Black Friday when these sales were on Friday. Working a holiday in retail was never what Thanksgiving is coming to. You would be able to spend some time enjoying Thanksgiving, at least in the morning or in the evening. Now when you are supposed to start at 5-6pm and stay until 8am or whenever, you cannot even enjoy any part of it because you'd be trying to get some sleep and rest to survive the night. I really cannot blame these workers for being upset about it, but walking out might be a little harsh, but hey they are just listening to those saying" If you don't like it then quit." They are just doing it in a way to be more of a burden on the employer who will be short those employees.
I really don't like how far Black Friday sales have encroached into Thanksgiving like this all in the name of profit. Retail isn't something similar to healthcare and safety fields where people need to be staffed, it is something the public can do without or staffed minimally to allow a better chance for employees to be able to enjoy the holidays. And even in Healthcare, a lot of places alternate holidays as a compromise. A lot of these workers working Thanksgiving will probably be working Christmas as well.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Legend
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Have you always been concerned about companies that do business on Thanksgiving?
Convenience stores, restaurants, security companies even our own beloved NFL, the stadiums and concession stands all open for business on Thanksgiving, the TV stations you watch at home are staffed. Are you condemning them as well, or is this just limited to retail? Shouldn't folks be able to purchase items if they choose on a national holiday? What about Presidents day, Labor day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Easter, Good Friday, Christmas, New Year's Day?
#GMSTRONG
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It is funny though ...... when I was a kid, grocery stores were closed on Sundays. (and closed on Saturdays around 3PM) The town I lived in pretty much rolled up and shut down on the weekends, and after 5 or 6 during the week.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And for the record, my political voting records are more Democrat than Republican. I consider myself a hard-line Independent with zero political affiliations.
Then you and I are similar.
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I don't believe in Wal-mart's practices, but I do believe that when you sign an application that says you agree to work weekends and holidays, that you are then obligated to work weekends and holidays.
Agreed. But don't be surprised that when holidays come around, employees take a hard look at what they are giving up (extremely valuable family time) for what they are getting in return (scant wages, and rude customers) and stand up for themselves. - Whether you or I agree with it or not, that is what is happening.
If you don't agree with the agreement you made, then you have a choice: Show up to work or quit and find another job. To intentionally screw the company that you signed an agreement with colors you as a vindictive ass.
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This country is filled with people who feel they are owed something for free. This move by these people stink of the things that represent the bigger picture, like the failings of the well-fare system.
I'm not following you here. This country is not "filled" with people who feel they are owed something for free. However, there are people that abuse the welfare system - I agree with you here. I don't see how this applies to people who go to work 5-6 days a week at Wal Mart are fed up with the combination of their wages, future raise prospects, hours, and now holiday schedule. To me, these people do not want something for free, but what they do want is better compensation from a company that has the means to give it to them.
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The American dream is earned, not given. Not everyone can be rich.
This is obvious. People who are walking off their 8-11.00/hr jobs at Wal Mart are not doing so because they feel that they should be rich. They are doing so because they feel overused and exploited - and I see where they are coming from.
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Not everyone can be middle-class.
This is a pretty powerful statement, and as a proud American, I completely resent everything about this statement.
On a side note, I worked at Wal Mart when I was in my early 20's, I also worked at Home Depot and after graduating from college, I took a job at Progressive. I've been at work on Black Friday, and on the Holidays themselves. I didn't mind doing so because I was a younger guy who didn't have a family of my own. Home Depot was a great company to work for - a place where you truly control your own destiny (they have store managers who have given such positions based on years of great service, many of them do not have college degrees.) I loved working at Home Depot. - They hired me at 9.50 an hour and within a year I was making 12.25/hr - and that was back in 2002. At Progressive, on Holidays, they went to a skeleton staff and did everything they could to give as many people as possible time at home with their families. Additionally, for the people who did work on Holidays, they were given holiday pay for the day, plus time and half for the hours worked. Additionally, Progressive gives annual bonuses to all employees (5-10% of your wage for the year) - this is why Progressive is staffed by knowledgable people who take pride in their work. However, a little off topic, I found that it was much easier to rise through the ranks at Home Depot than it was at Progressive. Then again, the economy took a dip. I digress.
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To quote a great man..."The world needs ditch-diggers, too..."
My father loved some of the stuff this man said during that movie. My favorite part is when he launched a golf club and it an old lady. However, you gotta take a closer look at this man's character in the movie. - The guy was kind of an ____, that's what led him to make such insensitive remarks, as funny as they were.
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Yep, me too but just like we're in a 24/7 news cycle, so goes our society.
Brick and mortar stores have to compete with places like Amazon who's available 24/7, no sales tax for most states and if you're willing to wait a week, no shipping. The only advantage the B&M's have is the consumer can put it in their hand and take it with them right then.
Why give up a full day of sales to places like Amazon, especially when people are primed for spending money? I'm sure they ran the metrics and saw the cost of opening their stores is much smaller than the loses they project by not opening.
#GMSTRONG
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These people ought to try working in a hospital. Every other weekend, every other holiday, mandatory freezing over, on-call shifts, etc. Cry me a frickin' river. You knew what the job entailed when you accepted it.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I used to work a job during HS where I had to work EVERY holiday. It was expected. I didn't get time and a half. It wasn't even an afterthought that I wouldn't show up. I was at the bottom of the chain, I didn't earn anything yet.
I've since moved on , but these people are the same ones that think the world is owed to them. You have a Job, you know how your company operates, STOP COMPLAINING AND WORK.
I really HATE people....
oioioioi
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If she was in New York, she would be required, by state law, to be in a union. She couldn't have legal employment in that field without being in a union... unless she was management.
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If wal mart cared about customers, you would walk into a store and there would be an employee in every department. Yet, we all know what it's like inside of wal mart. - Dirty, unkept, unorganized, and hard to find help. -Wal Mart does not care.
If wal mart cared about employees, then they would be taking measures to properly train, hire, and pay for a quality workforce. Nothing major, I don't think 15.00 -20.00 per each employee is out of the question. By paying people this amount, I guarantee you employees would have a little more pride in themselves and in their work.
So if Walmart cared about its employees it would pay all of them $40K a year and if it cared about its customers, it would charge then 30% more for the same stuff to cover it... then Walmart wouldn't have to worry about its customers or employees as it lost most of its market share and wouldn't need nearly as many employees.
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Perhaps the funniest thing here is that there are Republicans who side with wal mart.
I was at a Wal-mart last Friday evening and I'm pretty sure that a lot of the people that I saw shopping there weren't republicans... and that if prices went up, would go somewhere else looking for the lowest prices... why? I'll tell you..
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Wal mart: A company that imports products made in China, accepts welfare as a form of payment, and pays Americans scant wages to stock shelves and sell these products. Essentially what is happening is that a select group of people are getting very, very, wealthy off the backs of exploited Chinese people, exploited Americans, and the majority of American taxpayers.
Most American taxpayers also don't care if they exploit Chinese workers or American workers or whatever as long as they can get their toothpaste and swiss cake rolls and diapers 20% cheaper.... How do you think Walmart got so big and powerful? It wasn't because it was a great customer service based shopping experience, it was because consumers from both parties don't care as long as their stuff is cheaper... so take your republican BS and shove it.
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I talked to a guy the other day who told me that he didn't graduate high school because he took a job at a local steel mill that paid him 25.00 and hour - in 1977! Think about that.
How has the steel industry been doing since then?
We are sort of at a crossroads here.... we live in an almost 100% price competitive economy and its a global economy in ways that it never was before.. and we need to figure out how we are going to adjust. Nobody can afford to pay a guy $40K a year to stock shelves or man the register at a retail store... those days are not coming back. If Walmart gave every employee a $3/hour raise, their entire profit would be gone... all of it.
Walmart's CEO made about $18 million last year. He is in charge of a $420 billion company that employs 2.2 million people around the world.... to put that in perspective, he makes less than the salary of 3 NFL players, who employ nobody, a dozen NBA players, almost 2 dozen baseball players and about 1/7th of what Jon Bon Jovi made at $125 million... (and this doesn't include endorsement money, if I included that, the number of athletes who make more than the guy who employs 2.2 million people would go up considerably) so if you boycott walmart because of its practices and the rich people that are making so much money but still enjoy professional sports or listen to music, then you are quite the hypocrit... because the people who buy the tickets, the sweatshirts, the gear, etc that pays these entertainers salaries, are exploited taxpayers....
yebat' Putin
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I stand in awe of your post. I could not possibly have said it better if I tried.  Well done.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
Never ceases to amaze me that those who have a job are so cavalier about it.
I see it all the time where I work. We hire new people who think they should get to pick their hours, what they do, and how much/well they will do it. Yeah, that thing you call crap? That's your job, that's what we pay you wages and benefits for . . .
Any rate, if they are union and walk out, that's job abandonment and grounds for either termination or placement on a last chance agreement.
I get it's the holidays and Black Friday is a nightmare, I worked on holidays. I worked on Sundays. Heck, two years ago, I worked 76 days straight through the summer. Life ain't fair, but they paid me for those days and I have health benefits.
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I disagree that they dont care about anything or anyone, and only care about money. Many of their pharmacy prescription prices are significantly less than chain pharmacies. They also have a four dollar drug program and give out free pharmacy discount cards. On one of my meds I save 480 dollars per refill over what costs to have the same prescription filled at CVS. They dont have to have such discounted prices, and people like me who dont have insurance sure appreciate it.
That may be true, but Walmart doesn't have a pharmacy because they want to help you, they have a pharmacy with cheap prices as a way to get you in the store, expecting you'll probably pick up a couple other items.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I talked to a guy the other day who told me that he didn't graduate high school because he took a job at a local steel mill that paid him 25.00 and hour - in 1977! Think about that.
How has the steel industry been doing since then?
Just wanted this portion to stand on its own for a moment. I am shocked anyone would use a job in the steel industry in the late 70s as an argument FOR giving wage increases in a competitive market.
it is just those types of salaries that gave the steel industry to Korea (along with the newer machinery, etc.)
#gmstrong
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I talked to a guy the other day who told me that he didn't graduate high school because he took a job at a local steel mill that paid him 25.00 and hour - in 1977! Think about that.
How has the steel industry been doing since then?
Just wanted this portion to stand on its own for a moment. I am shocked anyone would use a job in the steel industry in the late 70s as an argument FOR giving wage increases in a competitive market.
it is just those types of salaries that gave the steel industry to Korea (along with the newer machinery, etc.)
It was also union inflexibility that accelerate the process, and helped kill so many retiree's pensions.
If the union had been willing to work with the steel companies, they may have hung on a while longer. They were never going to be a long term proposition, at least not in the Mahoning Valley ..... because the mills here were old and outdated, and would have required massive updates. It would never have been cost effective for the steel companies to do so.
The steel companies were not without fault.LTV steel (IIRC, it's been a long, long time) bought up several of their competitors, and wasn't prepared for the debt that entailed. They thought that they got a great deal taking over their competitors .... and instead were taken under by the weight of the debt they brought with them. They had gotten to the point where they had trouble gaining additional financing, and even if they could, they were paying highly inflated rates.Their debt became an anchor when interest rates spiked, and inflation spiked right along with it. Plus, industries that the steel mills relied upon, like cars (and the sale of cars) were hit with 20% rates on loans. Overall it was a perfect storm of ineptitude. I'm probably not qualified to so into extremely greater detail ..... but man there were a lot of people to blame, from owners, to unions, to politicians.
So you had an employer that was faced with massive debt, and retiree pensions that they could not afford to sustain at the then current levels ..... interest rates and inflation running rampant, and unions that did not believe that the company was as bad off as they said they were. The factories said they were going to have to close, and the union still did nothing to renegotiate. I seriously think that they believed that it was all a negotiating ploy even after the factories were shuttered, and the pension checks stopped coming in the mail.
I will never forget seeing grown men almost in tears after those mills closed up. Their presents, and their futures, were gone. They had gone to work in the mills at 18 ...... and worked there since. Most had no other job skills.It was a shame what the steel companies and the unions did to them. If nothing else, more union flexibility could have helped soften the blow at the end ...... extending it out, and giving the workers additional notice ..... and maybe they even might have been able to come up with a plan to save pensions. Instead it became one massive peeing contest, and no one won.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That may be true, but Walmart doesn't have a pharmacy because they want to help you, they have a pharmacy with cheap prices as a way to get you in the store, expecting you'll probably pick up a couple other items.
Businesses exist to make money. As soon as everybody comes to that realization, then we can get on with having a conversation... If you approach things from the standpoint that everything they do is geared toward making more money, the overwhelming majority of the time you will be right... sure I bet they get a little pride out of sponsoring a little league team or donating stuff in the time of disaster relief but they are also banking on getting some goodwill from customers out of it too.
But to be clear, they don't exist to employ people, they don't exist to pay taxes, they don't exist to give stuff away... they exist to make a profit.... and as big of a profit as they can.
yebat' Putin
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and as big of a profit as they can.
At the expense of what?
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and as big of a profit as they can.
At the expense of what?
Apparently at the expense of the people who feel it's their right not to have to work on a holiday...in spite of a signed application to the contrary...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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and as big of a profit as they can.
At the expense of what?
What do you mean? Are you asking if I think they have some social responsibility to reduce profit for some greater good? If people don't like to wofk there, don't work there. If people don't like to shop there, don't shop there.. sooner or later they will get the message and they will have no choice but to change... but as for now, they are doing quite well so I'm not sure exactly what they should change.
I think people are focused on the wrong end of the stick.. they want employers to change to recreate this middle class. If people want to create that, then go to the smaller stores that have this great service and buy your televisions from them for an extra $200... and your diapers and your salted peanuts... then Walmart will have no choice but to change... The only problem is that you are limited in what you can do to mandate that consumers act a certain way because people will fight it, but tell them that you are going to make big companies act a certain way and a large portion of the population gets all giddy with excitement..... Just be aware though, those mom and pops that offer great service, if enough people go there... they will turn into the next Walmart or Best Buy... that's just how things work.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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If people want to create that, then go to the smaller stores that have this great service and buy your televisions from them for an extra $200
No, no , no ,no, no......We want great service, great benefits, great pay AND low prices. I want you to PAY me a premium, while I shop for the absolute lowest price.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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At the expense of absolutely anything that gets in the way, within the law.
I just think that is a really silly question.
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Legend
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As we say in construction, you can have your project done fast, under budget and of the highest quality.. (pick any 2)
yebat' Putin
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As we say in construction, you can have your project done fast, under budget and of the highest quality..
(pick any 2)
We say that in the software industry as well.
#gmstrong
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You may be right. I'm sure Wal Mart will be able to find people willing to work for 8-11 bucks an hour. But we have to ask ourselves this question: at this rate, how seriously will people take their jobs? The answer is simple: not seriously at all.
It doesn't matter what the job is, or what the pay is - a person will only take the job as serious as their need for the income.
And if they don't take it serious, they'll be shown the door and someone else will replace them. Period.
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Wal Mart does not care about the experience that customers have inside their stores. Wal Mart does not care about where the stuff in their stores is manufactured.
All Wal Mart cares about is making money hand over fist and giving it to the select few at the top.
Yes, that is The American Way. Make Money.
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If wal mart cared about customers, you would walk into a store and there would be an employee in every department. Yet, we all know what it's like inside of wal mart. - Dirty, unkept, unorganized, and hard to find help. -Wal Mart does not care.
Google "People of WalMart" - their customers do not care, either.
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Nothing major, I don't think 15.00 -20.00 per each employee is out of the question. By paying people this amount, I guarantee you employees would have a little more pride in themselves and in their work.
Are you insane? $30,000-$40,000 per year for people to pick their noses working a cash register or stocking shelves? Heck, how about company cars? I'm sure they all could use one of those. And, being that the above reported hourly wage is $11/hour... your low end would only be what, a 36% increase in total payroll? Nah, that couldn't possibly have a negative effect on their bottom line, could it?
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Instead, wal mart chooses to be a revolving door for people. "work here for scant wages and quit whenever you want, we'll simply find somebody else to take your place, and then somebody to take their place."
Yes! That is what it is. I hate to say it this way, but it's a bottom-of-the-barrel job. You SHOULD be STRIVING to leave them behind ASAP. It's the retail equivalent of McDonald's.
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Perhaps the funniest thing here is that there are Republicans who side with wal mart. - What do you folks think about wal mart accepting wic, food stamps, welfare, etc to pay for products in their stores?
Wal mart: A company that imports products made in China, accepts welfare as a form of payment, and pays Americans scant wages to stock shelves and sell these products. Essentially what is happening is that a select group of people are getting very, very, wealthy off the backs of exploited Chinese people, exploited Americans, and the majority of American taxpayers. - You guys want to support this type of company?...
What does ANY of the above have to do with this?
This isn't about supporting WalMart, it is about people taking a job where they know the score going into it and then whining about it.
If you can show me what ANY of your quoted items have to do with this story, I'll address them.
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What has been going on recently in this country is disgusting. Rich people see that they can exploit "illegals" and other people in foreign countries, and they have adopted the following mentality "if we can exploit illegals and other people overseas, then why can't we exploit people here in the US?" - And that is what is starting to happen here. Granted, they own these companies and they can be as greedy as they want. But what they can't do is claim that they act in the best interests of America as a whole. They can't claim that they want a broad middle class.
What used to make the US great was a broad middle class, filled with people who were comfortable with their wages and standard of living. The middle class that made this country great began disappearing when wealthy business owners realized they could get the same production at a fraction of the cost from outside the country. - As a result, we have basically no middle class left but we do have a a very small upper class. I talked to a guy the other day who told me that he didn't graduate high school because he took a job at a local steel mill that paid him 25.00 and hour - in 1977! Think about that. Now we have people who side with a company that wants people to work on thanksgiving for next to minimum wage. You guys better figure out what you want this country to look like, and then pick a side. I can assure you, those at the top do not care about you or your family, they only see you for how much production they can get out of you and how much money you can make them.
What's disgusting is the growing notion among Americans that they feel they have a Right to a certain level of comfort and living conditions.
Did that union steel worker tell you what the state of that mill is currently? Can I safely put some big money on "Out of business"? Could it be because their labor costs made them unable to compete with overseas steel?? Nah, that couldn't be it... WE couldn't possibly be our own worst enemy, right?
I don't necessarily WANT people to make less money, but the facts are this - the more people make, the more their products cost, the more that overseas labor becomes more attractive, the more people here become unemployed. The dog chases his tail. Unions brought up the quality of living of many Americans, and at the same time began the demise of American industry. It is pretty much indisputable.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yes! That is what it is. I hate to say it this way, but it's a bottom-of-the-barrel job. You SHOULD be STRIVING to leave them behind ASAP. It's the retail equivalent of McDonald's.
And go where? There are not many options for those who are not cut out for college. Those jobs have been long gone in this new service economy. The fact is that just because we want to wish everyone would go to college, not everyone is cut out for that. These are the "factory jobs" in the economy we have now. And even if everyone did go to college and succeed, there would not be enough jobs for everyone, especially the way things are now with plenty of people searching for jobs still.
The problem I see here is that these corporations are not treating their employees with any form of respect. Of course, when they choose the job, they did know they'd be working holidays, but however the thing that changed has been what the holiday shift means nowadays. Black Friday was always on Friday. Now when it gets into the Thanksgiving holiday, it changes things. I used to have to work all the holidays because I was the low person on the totem pole, but I knew in time I would be able to be in a position to have better choices on what holidays I could get off. With the way Walmart and others are going, that has changed where there is no one getting off on the holiday of Thanksgiving. There is no chance for you to get it off ever if the Black ThursFriday continues like this. In most professions that it is a known you'd be working holidays, there is normally a notion that you could at some point in time get the holiday off or at least work a shift that still allowed you to spend time with your family. I would prefer that all nonessentials to not be required to work holidays all day shifts, but then again in most situations, it's not a full day shift and there's plenty of time before or after to have family time. Black Friday being at 7pm on Thanksgiving does not do that because they'd spend most of the day prior to that resting and probably sleeping and afterwards sleeping and resting to recover from the mess that is Black Friday.
I do see where they are coming from with the complaining and whining. I think it's more healthy for them to vent out the frustration rather than holding it in and have a worse situation when the straw breaks the camel's back and breaks in the middle of their job on Black Friday. Though, I think walking out of the job is not the right way to do things as it will only create a bigger mess and risk lives in the process. It does not take much for someone to go crazy in these situations. Let others protest for you and don't drag your job into it.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Damn...insomnia sucks...
I agree that not everyone is cut out for college. Unfortunately, the people that don't go or aren't skilled have few options to take. When that happens, they have to accept their role in life. Why? Because not everyone is entitled to a life in the middle-class. We gotta earn it. Nothing in life is free. If we aren't willing to work very hard to make our lives better, we get stuck with the Walmart-level jobs.
The world is a much more complicated place than it was 30 years ago. Life in many ways is much harder, which is interesting when we consider all the advancements that are supposed to make life easier. There are tougher choices to make, because the days of dad going off to punch the clock while mom sits home and watches the kids...those days are over for a great percentage of the population.
I do agree that venting things out is good for them, and that walking-out is idiotic. If they go that route they would fall under job-abandonment paragraphs of their employee handbook and never be allowed back in.
Now the question of "respecting the employees"...that's a tough one. "Respect" runs parallel to compensation. Sounds harsh but it's also a fact. If every company catered to the lowest line-level employee, they'd go under. I don't see where Walmart is disrespecting their employees at all. I see only a situation where a company has decided to open on a holiday so the people are getting upset at it and handling it the wrong way. The discussions surrounding better healthcare and the rest, well, that's a different issue. However, like respect, that discussion has to revolve around the job a person does. If a huge company offered huge compensation packages for line-level employees, the cost of goods would sky-rocket.
In the end, the world needs ditch-diggers, too. There are always better jobs out there for those who are willing to make sacrifices to improve their situations. Very few people work as greeters at Walmart who carry Masters degrees.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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What's interesting is that many of the same people complaining about working on the holiday, would probably be the same people shopping on the holiday if they weren't themselves working.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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And go where?
Anywhere you can. Make your opportunities.
Learn skills that allow you to do more. That doesn't have to mean college. Let's face it - not everyone is cut out for college. Not even close. And, for some people, Wal-Mart is as high as they will ever rise - by choice, by lack of trying to get out, or simply because it's all they can do. But it is up to every last single individual to rise to be as much as they can. Other people may help steer opportunity your way, but it is not up to anyone but the individual as to where they do or do not go.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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That may be true, but Walmart doesn't have a pharmacy because they want to help you, they have a pharmacy with cheap prices as a way to get you in the store, expecting you'll probably pick up a couple other items.
Businesses exist to make money. As soon as everybody comes to that realization, then we can get on with having a conversation... If you approach things from the standpoint that everything they do is geared toward making more money, the overwhelming majority of the time you will be right... sure I bet they get a little pride out of sponsoring a little league team or donating stuff in the time of disaster relief but they are also banking on getting some goodwill from customers out of it too.
But to be clear, they don't exist to employ people, they don't exist to pay taxes, they don't exist to give stuff away... they exist to make a profit.... and as big of a profit as they can.
As a union guy and a guy who really believe in the ideals and purposes of unions, I agree with your statement 100 %. That is fine, but on the other hand as a worker, any worker, wants to get the best.compensation package they can get for them and their family. The key is finding that balance, good companys, and god unions work together to strike that fair balance. It is not healthy for the business and the workforce for it to to far to one side.
Now as a guy with some training and experience in union strategy and contract negotiations i really think these people are making a bad move not only for their jobs, but also future attempts to uniomize or even get better workplace, even if they can never be unionized. Funny thing is, if this was a union place, this could not happen. It would be an unauthorized wildcat strike, and not only could these people be fired, any union officials who organized this would be brought up on NLRB charges.
King
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Legend
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The problem I see here is that these corporations are not treating their employees with any form of respect.
That's because its a buyers market and people don't want to accept that employees are a commodity. During the boom of the 90s people were making more money, not because Bill Clinton deemed it so but because there were plenty of options out there if you weren't happy with your job, you could find another one real quick, often making more money.. so employers had not recourse but to sweeten the pot.. unemployment is high, people are willing to work for less, it's more competitive for each position.... therefore employers will pay you less... that's how private companies survive and why companies that rely on unions often get screwed in a down economy, because the employer can't offset less profits by reducing wages without an act of God to get the union to agree to it.
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Wal*Mart Employees planning Black
Friday Walkout
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