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And one more thought on the Lombardi coming to Cleveland rumor. People keep saying "Where there is smoke there is fire". But in the internet age you need to be careful. Is there really that much smoke? There was one report that "2 credible NFL sources" said that Lombardi is a GM candidate for the Browns. Then there were what 10 other similar stories all citing this same original story. Just a bunch of media guys parroting one of their colleagues. It spreads because the rumor involves a talking head from NFL network that most football recognize. And it is an easy story to write. No research to do. You just re-write what everyone else is writing and sign your name at the bottom. Lazy journalism.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Wasn't Lombardi's mentioned before Heckert was hired too?
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Wasn't Lombardi's mentioned before Heckert was hired too?
Honestly, I don't remember that at all
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Thank you! I've been thinking (and hoping) since this rumor started that who would be the most likely source in the media of such a rumor? Hmmm? Who would have lots of contacts through out the league but not much actual leverage? Hmmmmmm? Who would know a large number of sports journalists and could easily get just such a rumor ball rolling? Hmmmmmmmm? Who's name keeps coming up around the league for various GM jobs over the years despite the repeated contention that he's unemployable by most professional standards? Where COULD this rumor be coming from? Hmmm... you get the idea.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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Yea this could all be Lombardi and his media cronies pumping him up to help him get his name in consideration for a job. I mean he is on NFLN and ESPN and he has also been doing the Showtime circuit as well.
Banner made it worse by leaving the door open for the speculation with the comments of thats just someone taking a shot in the dark and there may or may not be any truth to it. What the hell kind of answer is that, especially if you are wanting to defend the guys in place?
I just hope Haslam appreciates the strides this group of kids have made and if Shurmur has to go he promotes Jauron, Rhodes or Chilly. I havent agreed with Heckert on many decisions but he has done very well in each of his drafts.
Another solid draft and a year's experience and I think we are competing for the divisional if not conference title next year. We lost to the Ravens twice and both were nail bitters final play type games, split with the Bengals and in position to possibly sweep the Steelers. We have taken huge strides this year with a roster full of kids.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 12/20/12 03:18 PM.
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And one more thing, if a guy spends the kind of money JHaslam has spent, he should be allowed to hire or fire anyone he wants.
Very true. But that doesn't mean I have to willingly hand over my hard earned cash to watch the coming clusterbomb up close and personal.
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I'm along for the ride regardless. The Browns are my team and they'll always be. And really, it's just professional football.....about as meaningless as anything can be. I just don't see why so many are on here recently proclaiming the end of their fandom.
And if it's as meaningless as you proclaim why do you care what anyone else does? I've said a couple of times that if they start from scratch I'm done with this team. Now as time passes I might change my mind. But if I do it will probably be more a factor of my inability to sell my PSL's than it will be anything the Browns' front office will do to calm my fears of the impending crap storm.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Sorry, "meaningless" was a poor choice of words. This is entertainment. Good or bad, it's still entertainment. Heck, not every movie or story has a happy ending, just like your average Browns season. I'm trying to view the Browns, and Bears for that matter, like a movie that I don't know if it's a drama, comedy, thriller or depressing chick flick. And just go with it. Good or bad, I paid the money to see football....and I got a show. Now, if you're only interested in watching "movies" where the good guy wins....sure, I understand your frustration and I have no problem with your decision to no renew your season tickets. Fair decision. In my original statement, I said not renewing OR making proclimations of being 100% done with the team too. That's the part I'm not getting. We're Browns fans, we've watched a crappy team play crappy even under this regime and we haven't left before Haslam bought the team....so why would we leave now? How much more crappy can they be from here on out? 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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How much more crappy can they be from here on out?
That's what I've asked myself after every season since 2005 (my first year as a season ticket holder). Yet, with one noteable exception, they've never failed to dissapoint. Miserably.
Like I said, I was born a Browns fan. I will always BE a Browns fan. However, it's getting harder and harder to justify the expense (and, increasingly, the hassle) of going to CBS. We'll see... I'll let JimmyJoe do their evaluations and make the changes they're going to make. Then I'll do MY evaluation of THEIR evaluations and decide if I'm going to pony up the cash for tickets going forward. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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I'll let JimmyJoe do their evaluations and make the changes they're going to make. Then I'll do MY evaluation of THEIR evaluations and decide if I'm going to pony up the cash for tickets going forward.
I think that is the best way to go about it. Maybe a little too reasonable for a message board but indeed the best way to proceed.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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That will make the hillbillies happy.
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Calling them hillbillies, to me , is the same as using the N word if they were black. 
I wish you guys would stop.
Haslam is a billionaire, a self built one at that, and was a minority owner of the team that annually is a winner. He also was very quickly approved as an owner. You make him sound like Cooter from the dukes of hazzard 
#gmstrong
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Calling them hillbillies, to me , is the same as using the N word if they were black.
I don't think they were shouted that as their wives were raped, beaten to death, tied to a tree, and all the other horrible things. You may be reaching a bit with that...
I still don't want any of the mentioned candidates. Keep Heckert and Shurmur.
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Honestly, I'd be ok with McDaniels. I am intrigued this time around by him.
I'm having a hard time getting past any professional NFL shot-caller who not only thought Tebow was a 1st round QB, but had the twisted mind to go ahead and pull the trigger on that idea.
That's the guy that intrigues you, eh? Call me cynical, but I think most any OC would come up with a winning game-plan with Tom Brady back there at QB. Afterall, when I hear that Banner seemingly prefer's that the head coach has final say over the roster, and considering McDaniels as the HC would have that power, then adding in that McDaniel's really thought Tebow was going to be the man...That gives me more heart palpatations than the thought of a semi-puppet GM in Dumbardi coming here...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Honestly, I'd be ok with McDaniels. I am intrigued this time around by him.
I'm having a hard time getting past any professional NFL shot-caller who not only thought Tebow was a 1st round QB, but had the twisted mind to go ahead and pull the trigger on that idea.
That's the guy that intrigues you, eh? Call me cynical, but I think most any OC would come up with a winning game-plan with Tom Brady back there at QB. Afterall, when I hear that Banner seemingly prefer's that the head coach has final say over the roster, and considering McDaniels as the HC would have that power, then adding in that McDaniel's really thought Tebow was going to be the man...That gives me more heart palpatations than the thought of a semi-puppet GM in Dumbardi coming here...
Not sure which word applys scary or dis-heartning. Either would do but each has a level of Crap why us again.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Sometimes smart people crave a challenge. I think he saw Tebow...a guy who has so many pluses and thought be could adapt an offense to him. Tebow is a winner and is very good at everything except throwing a consistently accurate pass into a tight window.
But get him into a spread option situation that creates wide windows and dynamic speed at WR and that's a SuperBowl winning formula.
Look at what Washington and now San Fran are doing. It's here.
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Call me cynical, but I think most any OC would come up with a winning game-plan with Tom Brady back there at QB. Afterall, when I hear that Banner seemingly prefer's that the head coach has final say over the roster, and considering McDaniels as the HC would have that power, then adding in that McDaniel's really thought Tebow was going to be the man...That gives me more heart palpatations than the thought of a semi-puppet GM in Dumbardi coming here...
This^
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I just don't see why so many are on here recently proclaiming the end of their fandom.
Because it appears to be a massive step backward that it will take 5 years to recover from.
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That will make the hillbillies happy.
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Calling them hillbillies, to me , is the same as using the N word if they were black.
I wish you guys would stop.
Haslam is a billionaire, a self built one at that, and was a minority owner of the team that annually is a winner. He also was very quickly approved as an owner. You make him sound like Cooter from the dukes of hazzard
Nah, we're good with it. I once had a fellow at a business meeting derisively call me a "redneck". I smiled and corrected him by telling the proper term was hillbilly. The look on his face was priceless, you would have thought someone just walked over his grave. The term associated with blacks was a way of keeping them down. Hillbillies really don't need anyone to keep them down because nobody has much use for us anyway.
You know what will make this hillbilly happy? Seeing a front office that doesn't go off and shoot itself in the foot. Hiring Lombardi would pretty much be a shotgun blast to the toes. For now I'm content to watch the team finish out the season because they're really not that bad. I hate it when a football team turns into a bunch of crybabies at the end of a bad season.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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That will make the hillbillies happy.
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Calling them hillbillies, to me , is the same as using the N word if they were black.
I wish you guys would stop.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
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Quote:
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That will make the hillbillies happy.
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Calling them hillbillies, to me , is the same as using the N word if they were black.
I wish you guys would stop.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
If'n you were a little closer by I'd offer you a sip from the mason jar I just got delivered. That would cheer you right up.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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I am a Hillbilly, term has never bothered me at all. The media has always tried to take the worst of the worst and say here is your typical hillbilly. For me Hillbilly has always defined the independence that America was founded upon.
People came into the Appalachian mountains to get away from taxes and government rules. Most were German, Scottish, Irish and British and they loved their alcohol and loved making it. That part of being a Hillbilly is true. It is funny the people that tried to get away from the government authority are some of the most patriotic people you can find anywhere.
I think most are the friendliest people you will meet. By far the most religious tolerant people in the world. Just dont want to tick them off, cause you learn to shoot at a young age and Hillbilly justice does exist.
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Another Hillbilly /redneck here I got your back bro 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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As Lynyrd Skynyrd sang:
"My hair's turning white, my neck's always been red, my collar's still blue"!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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RE: Mike Lombardi Bill Simmons aired a podcast with Mike Lombardi this week. If you want to know why people are against him as our GM just listen. I don't know if I know of a professional pundit that's out there more who I disagree with more often than this guy. It's like he's on the wrong side of the argument consistently. Ugh..... Please just say no to Lombardi. http://www.grantland.com/podcasts
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charley casserly is bad too.. lol.
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I like Casserly, we agree on alot.
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While I understand what you're saying, I just don't see why you and so many other people are ready to quit be a fan or stop going to games over a front office decision.
I believe there's a huge difference in "quit being a fan" and "refusing to financialy support something you believe to be destined to failure".
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Need I remind you, the record under MH and TH is terrible. There's no guarantee this team even gets better next year if they were staying.
Guarantee? No, nothing really is accept the love of your mom is it? But we can look at probability which is all anyone can do on anything dealing with human beings.
We did better this year with a crop of rookies than we have done in quite some time. Is the probability that rookies will actually get worse or is the probability that they will grow and gain some continuity? I would say the second of the two scenarios is most likely.
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And even if the whole front office and coaching staff is new, that doesn't mean we'll be worse.....again, we have been "turrible" for quite a while.
IF the scenario being bantered about actually happens. The dynamic duo of "McDaniels/Lombradi".... Have you actually looked at their draft record? Let's see, Tim Tebow a first round pick? Even most of the posters on this board thought that was a joke! And Lombardi has a very long record of utter failure in that department.
Would you consider someone's track record and background as anything of substance when hiring someone for a job? I always have.....
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And one more thing, if a guy spends the kind of money JHaslam has spent, he should be allowed to hire or fire anyone he wants.
Just as we have the right to spend our money any way we want. Supporting people we have witnessed to have complete and utter failure only encourages further mistakes. Sending a message financialy will actually get someones attention. So Banner has the right to spend his money on what he feels is right, but we as fans are excluded from that same right?
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I'm along for the ride regardless. The Browns are my team and they'll always be. And really, it's just professional football.....about as meaningless as anything can be.
Then why bother responding to a subject that seems to mean so much to so many if it's so meaningless to you?
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I just don't see why so many are on here recently proclaiming the end of their fandom.
Some may be. Some have simply decided to stop their financial support if they see totally idiotic moves being made. They look at the long track record of failure by Lombardi and McDaniels utter stupidity in drafting Tebow in round 1 and see these choices as obvious mistakes.
So if this happens and a reasonable person looks at the evidence, believes it's the absolutely wrong thing to do, it's your assertion that they should just blindly support it no matter what?
Maybe that's the biggest difference between you and some other posters on the board. While the Browns aren't more important than my family, they are pretty much my recreation. I don't drink, I don't to Church, I don't gamble and I don't follow any other sport to near the degree I follow the Browns.
So to me, it's not "as meaningless as anything can be."
So if it's your choice to simply support something blindly without question like sheep being led to slaughter, that's your perrogative. But please don't act as though those who refuse to support obvious silliness based on hard evidence as having some type of issue.
It may just mean that some have a much more vested interest than someone who finds it "meaningless". It could be just that simple........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I am a Hillbilly, term has never bothered me at all. The media has always tried to take the worst of the worst and say here is your typical hillbilly. For me Hillbilly has always defined the independence that America was founded upon.
I couldn't agree more. Hillbilly or redneck doesn't bother me. Besides, if we call each other that, we don't set some kind of double standard claiming anyone other than us aren't allowed to say it. We actually believe if we can say it, anybody can say it. Last time I checked, all Americans had free speech and if it's okay for one group of Americans to say it, all Americans can say it.
It's pretty much all or none with us.
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People came into the Appalachian mountains to get away from taxes and government rules. Most were German, Scottish, Irish and British and they loved their alcohol and loved making it. That part f being a Hillbilly is true. It is funny the people that tried to get away from the government authority are some of the most patriotic people you can find anywhere.
Actually most were Scotch/Irish. A combination that had been persecuted everywhere they had been cast. They were on the low social level in Ireland and basicly kicked out of Ireland into Scotland. Both the Irish and Scottish had treated them very badly so it was based on those experiences that they wished to basicly escape society and rule themselves.
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I think most are the friendliest people you will meet.
I'd have to agree with you there.
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By far the most religious tolerant people in the world.
I guess you've never met my Aunt Opal. She's very religious and is very tolerant of you if you are religious and think just like her. Otherwise her tolerance goes WAY down! I think if you look at all of the dry counties throughout the south, tollerance isn't always their strong suit. Just depends on the individual like anything else...
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Just dont want to tick them off, cause you learn to shoot at a young age and Hillbilly justice does exist.
That's cause we're so tolerant, right?
People are just different to a great extent no matter where they are from. My uncles in the mountains are very easy going and laid back. My two aunts on the other hand are very stern and judgemental. And one thing yankees need to be aware of.... Southern women can say terrible things about other women as long as they butter it up at the end and close with a "God Bless her heart".
ie...." Did you see that sleezy looking dress Edda wore to Church? She probably just doesn't know any better. God Bless her heart."
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I like Casserly, we agree on alot.
I tend to like Casserly too. I haven't kept track of his hits or misses but taking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush was a ballsy move. I think it cost him his job but it was clearly the right choice.
And I enjoy listening to him talk on NFL Network.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Toad:
I totally agree with you on McDaniels regarding Tebow. However, I am unclear about how all that went down in Denver. Did McDaniels have final say on the draft?
Basically was it his decision or someone else and he had to coach the guy?
In any event McDaniels no matter how I look at him I get question marks?
I remember the whole Brandon Marshall thing. The appearance from outside looking in was a young coach who did not have a commanding presence and was unable to control a team of grown men.
McDaniels sideline antics make him appear to be a spoiled brat. I know that has nothing to do with whether he has what it takes as far as coaching goes but leadership qualities are often reflected in mannerisms.
On the other hand I respect Belichick. If you don't have the chops you will not remain as part of his staff.
Hopefully Haslam and Banner will find the right guy. Given what they have stated regarding continuity. Once they hire the next guy he will more than likely be the head coach for long time.
Doubtful about Saban or Sean Peyton. Have a hard time seeing them leave where they are.
Chip Kelly is getting plenty of press. Not sure about him. Banner in hiring Reid went to a guy who at the time was not considered a leading candidate for a HC job.
I am sure after reading at length all about Banner that he is a very detailed and thorough guy. He is going to bring in a head coach and a quarterback to compete with Weeden. He wants that combination to be along the lines of Brees and Peyton or Belichick and Brady. Intellectual equals that will work well together.
Maybe it will be Kyle Shanahan and Kirk Cousins.
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McDaniels' legacy attached to Tim Tebow ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Forget Jay Cutler. Josh McDaniels’ legacy in Denver -- and probably as an NFL head coach -- will rest on the boldest in a series of brash moves he has made since becoming the Broncos' coach 15 months ago. On the day he turned 34, McDaniels rocked the NFL world by wheeling and dealing all night in a cascade of moves that culminated in taking Florida quarterback Tim Tebow with the 25th pick. The story of the 2010 draft is in Denver. NFL Draft 2010 Coverage • Sando: Much riding on Bradford • Seifert: Lions right to pick Suh • Williamson: McDaniels' legacy is Tebow • Yasinskas: McCoy big building block • Graham: Spiller could pay off for Bills • Walker: Browns fail to make splash • Kuharsky: Jags may be right on Alualu • Mosley: Cowboys happy with Bryant • Clayton: Round 1 winners and losers • Pasquarelli: Wait worth it for Tebow • Wojciechowski: Bradford's journey • NFL Nation Live: Draft discussion • NFL Draft 2010 section No player in recent memory has been as polarizing as Tebow. Some NFL scouts think the former Heisman Trophy winner has the right stuff to go with his Disney-esque will and character to become a standout NFL quarterback. Others in the league don’t think he has the right mechanical makeup to succeed, especially after an amateurish performance at the Senior Bowl. Others think he could be a solid H-back. Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said he couldn't get him on the field. McDaniels? Well, he has staked his career on Tebow, and traded three picks to draft him. “He has all the traits you look for,” McDaniels said. “It’s a good pick.” If Tebow becomes a standout quarterback under McDaniels’ tutelage, both will have long, wonderful careers in Denver. If Tebow fails to become mechanically sound and an acceptable NFL passer, he’ll begin his missionary life earlier than he had hoped and McDaniels will be the guy who was run out of Denver after making one too many risky moves. Think McDaniels cares? Think again. Remember, this is the guy who traded Cutler, a Pro Bowl quarterback, after a five-week spat. McDaniels shipped Cutler out of town without worrying about what people thought. He kicked Brandon Marshall out of town this month without worrying that his receiving group is a mess. Ironically, one of the picks acquired from Miami in the Marshall trade was part of the Tebow deal. Now, he takes Tebow several picks higher than many people think he was worth. Tebow was the call despite Denver having glaring needs at other spots. Again, McDaniels does it his own way. He saw something in Tebow. He thinks he can win with him. He took Tebow over Notre Dame’s Jimmy Clausen. Clausen was likely higher than Tebow on at least 25 NFL boards. That doesn’t matter to McDaniels, who gushed about Tebow in his pre-draft press conference and who personally worked him out Monday. Whether you question McDaniels’ methods or not, his ability to coach quarterbacks can’t be denied. Tom Brady broke records under his guidance. Matt Cassel owes a nice portion of his $40 million deal in Kansas City to McDaniels. Cassel went from a guy who hadn’t started since high school to starring under McDaniels in New England when Brady got hurt in 2008. Journeyman Kyle Orton was solid under McDaniels last year. One of the reasons McDaniels was selected to replace Mike Shanahan at the age of 32 is because he convinced Denver owner Pat Bowen that he is a quarterback guru. Tebow is his greatest project. Don’t expect Tebow to start as a rookie although McDaniels said he will play when he’s ready. McDaniels also indicated there could be some packages made for Tebow right away and indicated he could play initially in a Wildcat (Wild Horse in Denver) formation. Tebow is now McDaniels’ pet project. He is the guy he has been looking for since he came to Denver. Tebow will be given the full attention of McDaniels beginning at next weekend’s rookie minicamp. Brady Quinn and Tom Brandstater? Thanks for coming. This is Tebow’s show. “We need players at that position to be very good players,” McDaniels said. “If we have the chance to make him special, that’s what we’re looking for.” McDaniels got his man. Now, let’s see what he does with him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Maybe we're looking at this McDaniels/Tebow thing wrong. McD made Tebow a playoff QB. Read that again, TEBOW a playoff QB.
If McD can turn that no armed hack into a playoff QB then maybe he's a genious. Just think what he could do with Weeden, or Colt, or any other walk on tryout player for that matter.
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Legend
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Legend
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Look at other picks in that draft: Demaryius Thomas, Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton, and Eric Decker. All of those guys are starters for the Broncos right now (Walton is currently on injured reserve). Pretty good besides Tebow.
(Heckert just took a 29 year old QB in the first round by the way. I love Heckert, but when he goes to a different team I'm sure some of their fans will be worried about that pick.)
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He can just blame Holmgren for Weeden wherever he goes . . . WAIT, no, he's not leaving. He's not leaving. He's not leaving. Say it with me . . .
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I think that ship has sailed.
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I'm a little unclear here. Tebow went to the playoffs last year with John Fox
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Oops. My bad you're right. Fox turned Tebow into a playoff QB. That guy's a genious.
McD... Not so much.
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OK then, case closed.
I suspected as much but I don't follow Denver. Sure didn't make Elway twitch even after they went to the playoffs and beat the Steelers. Timmy was sent packing.
Hopefully Banner and Haslam will not go the McDaniels road.
I have a feeling the new guy will be a surprise. You got any ideas or preference?
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Banner might be a blind mole with a personality to match, but he's a master at not tipping his hand or letting public opinion influence him. I don't have any idea of who he might be looking at, or what system he might use.
I just know that the guy who thought Tebow was a 1st round pick at QB is a name I want nothing to do with as the guy who would potentially hold the final authority over the roster.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
OK then, case closed.
I suspected as much but I don't follow Denver. Sure didn't make Elway twitch even after they went to the playoffs and beat the Steelers. Timmy was sent packing.
Hopefully Banner and Haslam will not go the McDaniels road.
I have a feeling the new guy will be a surprise. You got any ideas or preference?
Everyone remembers Tebow beating the Steelers, but everyone forgets the absolute drubbing he got the next week in New England. Both Elway and Fox knew Tebow had taken them as far as he could. I applaud them for going out and getting better. Right now I think they have to be the odds on favorite to make the Super Bowl out of the AFC.
As far as my preference for a coach, I said in a different topic that I would probably favor David Shaw. I like Saban, I like Chip Kelly, but some of these current coordinators who will be hired as coaches just don't do anything for me.
I think you can hire Shaw but still keep some power. If you hire Saban, and probably Kelly, both guys will take most of the power.
I just don't understand how Jimmy can spend all that time in Pittsburgh only to do the complete opposite and give away power.
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