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For comparison purposes, do you know the league average those years? The best and worst might also be enlightening? Frankly, I have no idea what to make of those numbers and some reference points would be helpful.
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Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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One thing that seems odd to me about this HC search is why are we reportedly traveling all over the country to interview HC candidates? Seems that typically the HC candidates are flown in to see the facility and interview in that teams city. But we fly to Arizona to interview Kelly, Horton and Whisenhunt. Then we fly to Chicago to interview Trestman. Don't know where we interviewed Marrone and O'Brien.
Is it me? Am I mis=remembering? Or does this seem a little strange?
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Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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2001 was the 3rd season from "Open the doors days" of expansion. Our OL that year was ... LT: Oben LG: Verba C: Wohlabaugh Not too bad ...... so far ....... RG: Jeremy McKinney RT: Roger Chanoine We also has the immortals ....... Paul Zukauskus and Brad Bedell. We had Shaun O'Hara and Tre' Johnson mixed in there as well ..... and I believe that Tre' did start until he was injured. (IIRC about 3 games in) Chanoine started 16 games that year. 16. McKinney started 9.  Each played one more year in the league before fading into history ... leaving bruises and broken bones in their wake. Yeah ..... with those 2 on the right side of the OL, 51 sacks might have been a miracle.  We gave up 36 sacks this season with our improved OL. 35 and 40 don't look horribly out of line by comparison. Roethlisberger always holds the ball about 3 seconds too long on about 1/3 of his snaps He is just so freakishly strong that he manages to pull out of tackle attempts that would result in sacks for other QBs. He has always done that ..... and will probably do so till the day they bury him. As far as Indy ...... a 2-14 team a year ago ..... and 41 sacks. Again, our QB were sacked 36 times. We were 15th in the league (with Carolina and Dallas) ... Indy was tied for 23rd. (with the 49'ers) Sacks aren't the end all/be all either. Last year the Colts only gave up 35 sacks. Were they an effective offense? Which was a better offense .... the 2011 Colts who only allowed 35 sacks ..... or the 2012 Colts who allowed 41?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
FWIW - I heard he was hospitalized with the flu. When they say he would be released Sunday was that yesterday? No doctor will predict an exact discharge date that far away.
It was high blood pressure.
Bruce Arians back in Indianapolis after hospital stay
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on January 8, 2013, 1:00 AM EST
AP
Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is back home after spending a night in a Baltimore area hospital on Sunday.
Arians was checked into a hospital in Baltimore Sunday morning prior to the Colts playoff match up with the Baltimore Ravens.Arians had missed practice on Thursday due to flu-like symptoms and again complained he felt ill during the team’s breakfast leading to him being checked into a hospital for observation. Assistant coach Clyde Christensen handled the play-calling duties in Arians’ absence in the Colts 24-9 loss to the Ravens.
According to the Associated Press, Arians returned to Indianapolis on Monday with a pair of team doctors along for the trip.
”He was in good spirits [and] is trending [in] right direction,” Colts owner Jim Irsay said in a text to the AP.
Arians is expected to interview with the Philadelphia Eagles and Chicago Bears for their head coaching jobs.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-hospital-stay/
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Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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2nd String
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Anyone have a updated list of candiates that have been or requested for interviews by the Browns? It appears that the coaching search has "cooled" off after pulling out of the Kelly sweepstakes.
Out of the possible candidates out there, here is my preferences:
Yes
Marc Trestman
(I'm not turned off by his multiple short stops with teams. It's the life of assistants, espeically when you are trying to get promoted, which he slowly did over the course of his career. But with Trestman being a QB Guru, and having a lot of success as a HC speaks volumes (Success at any level whether it is NFL, NCAA or CFL needs to be respected). The guy appears to be an Offensive WC expert and would be the best fit for the roster we have now.
Mike Zimmer
Zimmer is someone I didn't know too much, so I did some reading. After reading some of the information I've found, Zimmer appears he could be a very successful head coach. You can't argue his defensive ability, and he runs a 4-3, and has some experience with 3-4 also.
No:
Lovie Smith
No. If he couldn't build an offense in Chicago with Brandon Marshall and Cutler, and his lack of an O-Line, why would he do any better with a terrible offense in Cleveland?
Maybe:
Bruce Arians
I'm still not sold on Arians.
Ray Horton
I believe Horton is a great DC who know his stuff, but as a leader, I'm a bit leary. He's also had a 10 year playing career. Also LeBeau thought highly of Horton to have him work with him in Ciny and Pittsburgh.
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Zimmer is on the top of my list now.
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Well, Saban is about to speak in a press conference, maybe he'll announce he's leaving  
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Quote:
Bill Livingston's case for Lovie Smith
So in an article in which the title begins "Lovie Smith Makes the Most Sense for the Cleveland Browns," Bill Livingston devots exactly one paragraph to Smith - and that one at the end. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, Bill. One of his selling points is that Smith has experience coaching in a cold climate!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Well, Saban is about to speak in a press conference, maybe he'll announce he's leaving
If he announces he's leaving, then it means he's staying!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I believe Trestam was OC when the 49ers had that record year.
Jerryrice had a monster year that year!
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Trestman has been part of some very good offenses.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Hey Jimmy Haslam I hope you read this.
Take Trestman and Arians off the list please.
Both these guys have been around the league for years and nobody has made either a head coach.
This is Not the time to go with retread tires.
Take Luck off the Colts and Arians name stays hidden. He is what he is an OC. No different than Romeo being a DC.
Trestman give me a break. Just because a guy is known to be a smart offensive mind that alone does not make him a good head coach.
Trestman is not what this team needs to be looking at as a foundation head coach.
If Jon Gruden and Nick Saban are not interested then Lovie Smith and Ken Whisenhunt are the best candidates.
The Browns need a proven NFL Head Coach. They need a guy to stay the course with for at least ten years.
They do not need a risk or retread.
The one guy I would at least look at ( meaning just interview and see what he brings)although he would be a risk as a first timer would be Kyle Shanahan.
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If I'm not mistaken, Gruden, Saban, Smith and Whisenhunt now fall into the category of "Retreads".
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First this: Quote:
This is Not the time to go with retread tires.
Then this:
Quote:
Lovie Smith and Ken Whisenhunt are the best candidates.
After mentioning Gruden and Saban, who are both NFL retreads.
So, which is it, do you want no retreads or do you want retreads?
I only ask because in the quote below, you seem to be leary of a non-retread:
Quote:
They do not need a risk or retread.
The one guy I would at least look at ( meaning just interview and see what he brings)although he would be a risk as a first timer would be Kyle Shanahan.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Tony Sparano released by Jets. He will get an interview or two somewhere.
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Hey Jimmy Haslam I hope you read this.
That's too funny.
Most of your list are retreads.
I wish we had a front office that was half as smart as Browns' fans think they are.
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Every head coach is a first time head coach sometime. Not every experienced head coach is a success in his 2nd stop. Just because a guy hasn't been asked till later doesn't make him a poor candidate.
As far as "taking Luck off the Colts" ..... well, take Cutler off the Bears and they would have been a 3 or 4 win team. Take the starting QB away from most teams and they will suffer. The job Arians did this year was extremely impressive. That young team could have fallen apart when their head coach had to leave the team. They could have floundered very easily.
They didn't. They didn't because Arians held them together, and led them to far more victories than anyone thought possible. I mean, really ..... who thought that the Colts would win 11 games after winning only 2 last year?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Actually, Lovie Smith went 13-3 without Cutler, and went to a Super Bowl ... using Grossman and Orton.
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Quote:
I believe Trestam was OC when the 49ers had that record year.
Jerryrice had a monster year that year!
Trestman was in San Fran 95 and 96 and Rice had amazing years... over 1800 yards in 95 and over 1200 yards in 96. Trestman has done a good job everywhere he's been in the NFL and went on to great success in the CFL which for some reason seems to make some folks nervous.
It simply amazes me that some folks value a successful College coach that's never spent a minute in the NFL as a player or coach over a guy that has spent his entire career except the the last 5 years in the NFL.
I mean, what is it, they think because the field dimensions are different that coaching isn't coaching?
guess I'm a little confused by that.
I mean, I guess if the guy never played College ball in the states, never played Pro ball in the states or coached in College or the NFL that's one thing. If all a guy has ever done is the CFL, I guess I could get the questions.
But Trestman has been everywhere and has been successful.
I keep thinking about a guy, Warren Moon, a player that made the transition to the NFL and was rather successful after successful years in the CFL.
That's a player standpoint. I'd think that would be harder.
Anyway, I don't get the negativism on Trestman...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yes, his post is full of contradictions.. no retreads but he wants a HC that was recently fired...
Then he says take Luck from the Colts and Arians is nothing... but goes on to say he'd consider Kyle Shanahan.. who had the Texans as a .500 team with Shaub and Johnson, then a 5 win team with the Redskins until they got RGIII... so take away RGIII and is anybody really interested in Kyle Shanahan? Probably not.
yebat' Putin
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Watching a Rex Ryan presser. Man am I confused! This guys mind goes off like a blunderbuss! 500 thoughts spewing out in 500 directions at once!
What a horrible communicator!
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Actually, Lovie Smith went 13-3 without Cutler, and went to a Super Bowl ... using Grossman and Orton.
How did he do last year when Cutler was hurt?
Cutler went 7-3. How did the Bears wind up last year?
These are the past 6 years with regards to the Bears, and Lovie Smith:
7-9, 9-7, 7-9, 11-5, 8-8, 10-6.
I think that the Bears knew that they were heading for another down year, because just like Marvin lewis in Cincinnati, that's Smith's pattern as well. Up and down and up and down and up and down ....... there is no consistency.
As far as QBs ... hell, Dick Jauron went 13-3 with Jim Miller as his QB. (Pre-Smith) It can happen. (though it's much less likely to happen today in a QB driven league)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Lovie Smith is the best candidate out there. His players love him and play hard for him. His defenses are amazing...EVERY year, and EVERY place he's ever been.
With Ron Turner, Mike Martz, and Mike Tice as his OC compiled a record 20 games over .500
If you can get the man an offensive coordinator, and get him a a decent offensive line (like he had the year they went to the super bowl, with Kreutz at C) he will do amazing things.
Lovie Smith DIDNT deserve to be fired. Its crazy because if the Vikings wouldve lost last week...Lovie would still have a job. The man is a good head coach.
He's a terrific head coach, and should become our TOP priority.
Ken Whisenhunt is also a pretty good head coach, and while everyone hates what he did in Arizona the past two years with his QB situation...who can blame him...he didnt sign Kolb...and when Kolb was healthy, he actually was 4-0...He went 7-2 with John Skelton last year. Then when his guys started playing horrible...he wasnt afraid to mix it up...yes with bad results, but at least he didnt stick with status quo and just flounder. He tried Ryan Lindley who busted, tried Skelton, lost Kolb...even played Brian Hoyer. He tried everything and it didnt work.
My only worry on Whisenhunt is that they never could run the ball there. I mean, Beanie Wells, Tim Hightower, Ryan Williams and co arent good...though LSH actually didnt a pretty good job in his limited time as a starter, but they never ran well.
Outside of those two...
Kyle Shanahan SHOULD be interviewed.
Gus Bradley SHOULD be interviewed
Tom Clements should be interviewed
Ray Horton should stay in the conversation...Hes an old Steeler, he knows mean...and that Az defense is mean
Perry Fewell should at least be given a look
Bruce Arians should be given a look...he has history here, glad to see he'll be interviewed
SFs DC should be interviewed
Dirk Koetter must not have impressed...good, I dont like him
Saban should be given a look (but his contract should make it so that if he leaves at ANY time during the contract he will be tarred and feathered and be forced to pay back most of his salary)
Mike Zimmer is worth a look. He's done great things with Cincy's D
Rob Ryan should be given a look
Hue Jackson should be interviewed (also he's been linked to Lovie Smith and they may come as a package which is an additional positive to Lovie)
Tom Cable should be interviewed
Joe Vitt should be interviewed
Though he shouldnt be wildly considered...give Raheem Morris an interview...he was good for a year and a half in Tampa...maybe he learned from his mistakes.
I think again Lovie (especially if he comes with Hue Jackson) is the runaway best pick. but there are lots of guys out there, that have potential and should be considered.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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You don't like McCoy from Denver?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Oh yea...
I forgot much about him. he and Del Rio should be given looks.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
These are the past 6 years with regards to the Bears, and Lovie Smith:
7-9, 9-7, 7-9, 11-5, 8-8, 10-6.
You act like thats a bad record ... I'd call any of those a good result for 2013 ... 10-6 or 11-5 would be outstanding.
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Lovie Smith had the bad fortune of setting expectations high with continuous improvement over his first three seasons, culminating in a Super Bowl appearance, while the rest of the division struggled, and then not being able to get over the hump while the rest of the division caught up.
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How did he do last year when Cutler was hurt?
Aren't you the same guy that said if you take anybody's starting QB away the team is going to suffer?
If you look at Smith's tenure with the Bears, his offense has been consistently mediocre and his win total has gone up and down based on how his defense plays... the only year the Bears have come close to finishing in the top 10 in scoring was when they finished 2nd in 2006... and that year they had 5 kick return TDs and 3 defensive TDs which was about 3x more non-offensive TDs than anybody else and without them, they would have been about 12th...
He won 11 games with Orton and the #2 defense (29th ranked offense).. he won 13 games with Grossman and the #5 defense (15th ranked offense)... he won 8 games with Cutler and the #17 defense (17th ranked offense)... In the year before and the year after the 8 win season with Cutler, his defense was top 10 and the Bears had double digit win seasons... If you want a team that lives and dies with its defense, Smith appears to be your man.
Smith and a really good OC seems to be a good prospect. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
These are the past 6 years with regards to the Bears, and Lovie Smith:
7-9, 9-7, 7-9, 11-5, 8-8, 10-6.
You act like thats a bad record ... I'd call any of those a good result for 2013 ... 10-6 or 11-5 would be outstanding.
and shouldn't we judge Lovie on his full Bear's resume? why the cutoff of the last 6 seasons (seems odd).
5-11, 11-5(0-1), 13-3(2-1), 7-9, 9-7, 7-9, 11-5(1-1), 8-8, 10-6
Overall: 81-63 + 3-3 in playoffs (only 3 of 9 yrs in playoffs being his undoing)
He's not a complete slam-dunk candidate, but it's a solid resume. The issue in Chicago was they never figured out how to fix their OL and he dealt with a ton of QB issues as a result. Get him a quality OC and I think he could do wonders here.
#gmstrong
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I look at Trestman, and his QBs certainly haven't had career years while he was with them. Kosar's beat year was with Infante.
He was the RB coach in Minnesota. They averaged 3.7 yards/carry and 3.8 yards/carry in his 2 seasons. Then he came to the Browns, and Kosar fell short of his best seasons.
Then he went back to Minnesota and worked with Gannon, seeing him complete 52% of his passes with 16 TD and 16 INT. The following year Gannon completed 59% with 12 TD and 6 INT. Overall Vikings QBs put up 16 TD and 16 INT that year as well.
The Vikings scored 406 and 351 points the 2 years prior to Trestman. They scored 351 and 301 in his 2 years. They scored 374 the year after he was replaced.
He then took 3 years off .... because no one would hire him. he wasn't very good, and had developed a reputation for undeserved ego, IIRC.
He then came back to a powerhouse in San Francisco. He was there for the 1995 and 1996 seasons. The 49'ers won the Super Bowl in 1993. The did again in 1994. In 1995, Steve Young had a 20 TD/11 INT season in 1995, and they lost in the first round of the playoffs.In 1996, Niner QBs threw 24 TD and 16 INT. They won one playoff game that season. They did score points ....... but I think that was more the talent they had than any miraculous coaching job by Trestman.
In 1993 and 1994, the 2 years prior to Trestman, the Niners scored 476 and 505 points. In Trestman's 2 season, they scored 457 and 398. Both were extremely good point totals ..... but taken in context ..... maybe not as good as they could/should have been. The 2 years after Trestman left, the Niners scored 375 and 479 points.
Trestman then went to the Lions. They finished 3rd in their division. Scott Mitchell was their QB .... and I don't know who gets the blame for him ..... but he went 19/14 TD/INT, and was "meh".
Kind of a lost year there.
Then he went to the Cardinals for 1998 - 2000. Their point totals in his 3 seasons went 325, 245, 210. They had Jake Plummer at QB .. but he never really developed there. Plummer had years of TD/INT: 1998 - 17/20 1999: 9/24, 2000: 13/21. Trestman was then fired. In 2001, after Trestman, Plummer went 18/14. Not great, but a great improvement.
Trestman then went to the Raiders. He was there from 2001 - 2003. The year before Trestmen arrived, the Raiders scored 479 points. In Trestman's 3 seasons they scored 399, 450, 299. The year after he left, they scored 450 points.
Rich Gannon was again his QB. Gannon had 3 very, very good years. Probably the best NFL job Trestman did.
He then went to the Dolphins as QB/AHC. Their QB was AJ Feeley, he threw 11 TD and 15 INT, coaches, including Trestman lost their jobs. 'Nuff said.
He then returned to college, and then went to the CFL.
To me his resume is not worth head coach consideration. The CFL is a completely different beast. If we look at his NFL experience, it is a very mixed bag, with under-performance marking many of his stops. Even when he went to good teams, they performed at levels below the teams immediately preceding him, and often the teams following him.
I don't want him as head coach ..... no matter how much Kosar thinks of him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Yes, his post is full of contradictions.. no retreads but he wants a HC that was recently fired...
Then he says take Luck from the Colts and Arians is nothing... but goes on to say he'd consider Kyle Shanahan.. who had the Texans as a .500 team with Shaub and Johnson, then a 5 win team with the Redskins until they got RGIII... so take away RGIII and is anybody really interested in Kyle Shanahan? Probably not.
Thus the reason you haven't heard me talk up Shanahan much at all.. I want a guy that can take just about anything and make something decent out of it. You aren't always going to have The Payton Mannings or RGIII or Andrew Lucks. Sometimes you have the kelly Holcombs and Tim Couchs
you find me a guy that can make the two latter players better, then you got something to talk about. Then, at some point, find him that next Payton Manning or someone close and you know you have a winner.
Out of all the coaching candidates we keep hearing about,,, only two come to mind that can be that guy.. Arians or Trestman. And Arians is EXACTLY that guy.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How about we hire Lovie and offer a nice big raise to Arians to be his OC? Let Lovie choose his DC.
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Quote:
You don't like McCoy from Denver?
I feel McCoy deserves a VERY hard look!
He changed their O on a dime to fit Tebow and actually so well they made the playoffs with a QB who threw for under 50%!
That's not just an OC, that's a miracle worker! 
I wonder when the last time was an NFL team went on to make the playoffs with a QB thowing for less that 47% if ever?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
How about we hire Lovie and offer a nice big raise to Arians to be his OC? Let Lovie choose his DC.
Why would Arians leave Andrew Luck to remain an offensive coordinator ..... and why would Indy let him leave for a lateral move?
Why the love for Lovie anyway? His record over the past 6 years has been as up and down as Marvin Lewis'.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Did you miss the part where I said "nice big raise"? Ask him how much Luck is contributing to his 401K. The only question would be getting permission to interview him for a parallel move.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,415 |
Why on God's green earth would Indy allow him to leave to do the same job elsewhere?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 42,413 |
Part of the interview process with McCoy would be to figure out if he changed the offense or if Manning changed the offense.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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You aren't always going to have The Payton Mannings or RGIII or Andrew Lucks. Sometimes you have the kelly Holcombs and Tim Couchs
you find me a guy that can make the two latter players better,
A lot of guys can make them better... can you make them good enough to win consistently without some other aspect of your team being overwhelmingly good like your running game or your defense?
Do you want a football coach or Harry Potter?
yebat' Putin
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