DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Horton: It Won't Be a Hybrid

Quote:

---

Let's look at the building blocks for the 3-4, will we?

Ward, Haden, Rubin...that's it. Does anyone else see the difference?

---

So it's your position that Phil Taylor cannot play DE in the 3-4, and that Sheard won't stand a chance of occasionally not putting his hand on the ground at OLB.

Hell, Taylor may even be a better fit at the nose than Rubin, and Sheard had numerous reports which stated he may be a fit in the 3-4.

This is transparent. You're too smart to be that dumb. This is spin to try and push your new theory that we're headed for a total teardown.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

The ONLY position which will suffer in a switch will be Jackson, and if we're all being honest with ourselves, he's a decent starter but not a great one. If we manage to get some O-line eaters he can still be productive.

A "tear-down" and a "rebuild."

Horsefeathers.

We'll need virtually the same amount of pieces in the 3-4 as we would if we continued with the 4-3.

Hey...Chicken Little...the sun is out. Get some

Quote:

---

The ONLY position which will suffer in a switch will be Jackson, and if we're all being honest with ourselves, he's a decent starter but not a great one. If we manage to get some O-line eaters he can still be productive.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

The ONLY position which will suffer in a switch will be Jackson, and if we're all being honest with ourselves, he's a decent starter but not a great one. If we manage to get some O-line eaters he can still be productive.

---

Jackson is great. One of the best middle linebackers in the league. He is my only worry as we transition to the new defense.

---

Quote:

---

It'll definitely be difficult.

But these guys are pros, they get paid to do these things.

---

Quote:

---

So it's your position that Phil Taylor cannot play DE in the 3-4, and that Sheard won't stand a chance of occasionally not putting his hand on the ground at OLB.

---

Quote:

---

Hell, Taylor may even be a better fit at the nose than Rubin, and Sheard had numerous reports which stated he may be a fit in the 3-4.

---

Quote:

---

This is transparent. You're too smart to be that dumb. This is spin to try and push your new theory that we're headed for a total teardown.

---

Quote:

---

I like Jackson. He's solid. But he's not dynamic. He isn't great in coverage, has limited pass-rush ability, and doesn't take on blocks well.

---

Quote:

---

Spin? Who's spinning words as if Taylor 4-3 = Taylor 3-4, same with Sheard...both being suppositions. We're back to "hoping", but those guys were already good, so why bring it down to "hope" with them again?

---

Taylor is still a question mark. He's about upside, not production at this point in his career. He projects very well, but if he projects well at DT, he projects well at NT and/or DE. Hell, Rubin would be a good DE IMHO.

The old axiom still rings true with 3-4 DE's: They aren't there to rush the passer. They are there to eat blocks so the 'backers can make plays. Since Taylor and Rubin aren't good pass-rushers, I say they may be better fits in the 3-4 than the 4-3.

Quote:

---

This isn't the teardown yet, it's a re-build in the making though.

---

I hardly think I've convinced you of anything so I find it odd that you've said a tear-down is here, but now you don't.

I think you're just worried, not convinced, that the switch is going to be bad.


/board posturing and fake-for-fun arguing off...

Dude, we both respect each other's knowledge. Take heart in the fact I believe in the switch.
/board posturing and fake-for-fun arguing on...



Pull up your big-boy pants and choose: Is it a teardown or not?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I like Jackson. He's solid. But he's not dynamic. He isn't great in coverage, has limited pass-rush ability, and doesn't take on blocks well.

---

C'mon Toad.. DQs biggest strength might be dropping into pass coverage, and as far as pass rush ability, in the NFL stats this year, he was first in sacks among anybody with the designation MLB.. and 4th when you included the ILBs... his only problem, his ONLY problem is that he lacks the size to shed blocks from interior OL when they get to the second level... that I will admit, is a concern.. pass coverage and pass rush? I've got no issues there.

---

Toad also thinks that Ward is a bad or average SS...to be a good S or coverage LB you never have to allow ANY RB or TE to make any catches, didn't you know that?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

ah thanks, I forgot about Barwin. I guess I just expect him to re-sign.

---

It's next to impossible to imagine a scenario where the Texans allow Barwin to leave. He's a prime target for the tag if he isn't extended.

---

Houston has $12.9M in cap space.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/sto...ct-cap-strategy

Houston's K, P, nickel corner, and starting S are free agents in addition to Barwin.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agents-houston-texans/

The franchise tag for LB is $9.5M.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...3-cap-near-121m

Houston spent a first round pick on Mercilus last year. Maybe they think he can play the position now. They could be a player for Jarius Byrd at $7M per year. They could sign a K and a P at something other than the vet minimum. Then, they have to sign their rookies.


Alternatively, they could trade for Darrelle Revis since they are picking late and have an extra 3rd via Mario Williams FA comp pick.


Both those scenarios would preclude them having room to sign Barwin, franchised or not. Hey, I just did the nearly impossible twice!

Quote:

---

There are good stop-gap pieces out there. We have plenty of options.

---

You mean, like maybe a stop gap edge rusher triumverate?

Quote:

---

Pull up your big-boy pants and choose: Is it a teardown or not?

---

Well, I already said that in 31 other NFL cities what we ALREADY did in the setup of this thing would be considered a teardown.

We can quibble about semantics but you will see a teardown when all is said and done, that's my prognosis. Right now? I'd call it a rebuild that is preparing a teardown.

In general I have no bias when it comes to 3-4 or 4-3. Both can work and yes I have faith that Taylor can stick in the 3-4 and there's a 50% chance that Sheard will be able to convert, so there's definately "hope" that it works out. I just think it's stupid to do the switch just when we started to see a pretty good, promising D unit. You'll need to watch the stats this D put up when both Taylor and Haden were starting...I'm talking top 10 stuff. It'll most probably be a step back in the 1st season unless we're able to land 2-3 big fishes in FA for the D (2 of Spencer, Barwin, Rhodes, a no2 CB etc), but then again...we could have done that for the 4-3 as well...I just didn't see the urgency to do this switch...that's why imho it's obvious that J&J are thinking in "re-building" mode

Hope you're right though...you're due I guess

Quote:

---

There is one word that comes to mind for me: whipsawed.

---

I can honestly say that word has never come to mind for me.. I don't even know what it means.

Quote:

---

So it's your position that Phil Taylor cannot play DE in the 3-4, and that Sheard won't stand a chance of occasionally not putting his hand on the ground at OLB.

---

Well I feel much better now.



We now see you think there is a possibility we are unsure of that Phil Tralor may be able to play DE in the 3-4 and Sheard stands a chance of playing OLB in the 3-4.

Even you yourself understands there's far more questions t—`n answers here so you can quit twisting it up to be different. This guy stands a a chance? You can't say he can't?

Now that's something to hang your hat on right there!

Quote:

---

If Sheard is on the roster, and there is no reason for him not to be, then it is a slam dunk that he is playing OLB.

---

Quote:

---

I think Gocong is more suited for OLB.. I think he is pretty stout when it comes to stopping the run, and no better to work that for your advantage than having him seal the edges to keep the HB from hitting outside.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

It'll definitely be difficult.

But these guys are pros, they get paid to do these things.

---

You gotta be a comedian, no? you should try though

Lombardi was a TV "pro" the past 5 years and sucked with over half of his "assessments"...yeah, that's a pro I'll trust to pick conversion players and do the "difficult" job

---

Quote:

---

Delmas and Byrd. Those are the two guys that should top everyone's list for free safeties.

(Delmas has had trouble staying healthy, but when healthy he is pretty good).

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Well... this will be interesting if nothing else. LOL Our front seven will be lacking in two of the most difficult positions to fill for a 3-4: DE and OLB. Rubin and Taylor can man the NT spot (IF Taylor can handle the switch mentally, that is - no guarantee there). Winn MIGHT be able to play DE, but that remains to be seen. We'll need to find at least two new DEs to make this work.

DQ will descend back into mediocrity as a 3-4 ILB. Hopefully, Gocong will be able to come back and stay healthy as the other inside backer. We really don't have ANY OLBs on our roster today. I'm sure Sheard will get a chance there, but he'll be a rookie all over again and a project at the position that may, or may not, work out. We're going to need 2-3 new OLBs before all is said and done. I can't wait to see how Lombardi & Company conduct a search for the perfect tweener to play OLB.

Fasten your seatbelts ladies and gentlemen, it's going to be a bumpie ride for at least a season or two defensively.

---

You could not be more wrong. And Django apparently has this superb eye for talent, yet lacks immensely in his knowledge of what's needed in any kind of 3-4 defense.

There's 2 gaping holes on this roster and neither are Defensive Ends.

3-4 DE's are always collegiate Tackles that lack the ability to penetrate. They are in the 300+ pound range. Imagine that one. I could go into 1-3-5 technique but many don't understand that type of talk. Yet many know we're going to tear this down and start over. That's just a lack of knowledge.

Seymour is one of your protype Ends in a 3-4. When you have quickness as a Tackle, you take that quickness outside and now you have a DE that can not only be stout at the LOS, but can penetrate the backfield on passing downs. That's a huge benefit versus a DE that cannot penetrate.

We have TWO such Ends on this roster in Taylor and Winn. Both will be DE's in this defense and Rubin is your Nose with Hughes. We would be wasting Taylor's skill set if we put him at the Nose.

The entire reason our previous 3-4 defenses lacked any type of punch are two-fold. We never had a capable Nose Tackle and that included Rogers. That dude shoulda been an END in our 3-4 defense. Total waste of his talent and quickness sticking him in a constant eat blockers type of roll. Rubin and Hughes are perfect for that type of roll. The next thing we have forever lacked is a Rush OLB. Wimbley stunk.

Now. Having said that. We can FIX the most important spot any 3-4 defense needs with the 6th pick in the draft. There are potentially SIX Rush OLB's that would be worthy of top 6 consideration. All you draft gurus can figure it out for yourself as to who they are. It's not difficult. And 2 of them have injury concerns that will be heavily scrutinized between now and draft day.

Yet I see many of you clamoring for us to take a Corner Back at 6 or trade down. That's just totally stupid.

If we address the secondary in FA, both CB and FS. The 6th pick is going to be a Rush OLB.

It may not and probably won't happen this year, but next year is the time to get a STUFFER in the middle of this defense to replace some of you guys favorite Brown. D'Qwell Jackson.

Nose Tackle, Rush OLB, Stuffer ILB. Get those pieces in place along with building up the secondary and this defense under Horton will be incredible. And we HAVE the Nose with a great chance of landing a STUD at OLB.

In this draft, considering we are going 3-4. You DO NOT trade down, and you DO NOT take a CB at 6.

---

You are a nice addition to the board. I hope you stick around.


I agree on Taylor and Winn. I think both will be better than your average Joe as 3-4 DE's. They have size and they also possess the ability to get some penetration. Rubin and Hughes are the nose tackles.