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Quinn fits this offense less than McCoy does. He has shown no ability to throw the ball down the field, or frankly, even dinking and dunking his way down the field.
He's an awful QB, one who should never be allowed back into Cleveland except in another team's uniform.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I remember Quinns last couple of games in Cleveland trying to throw the deep ball...It was horrible, 15 yards out of bounds!
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Quote:
J/C
Of the players listed, I'd go with Matt Moore. I think he has the most upside of the free agents.
I do think that Matt Moore is a decent QB. I pimped him a bit as an option if we decided not to draft a QB in last year's draft.
He was a big play machine in 2011. He completed 60% of his passes at a 7.20 yards/pass clip. He had 38 plays of 20+ yards in only 347 pass attempts. (better than 1 in 10 of his passes went for 20+ yards)
He wasn't the backbone of the team though. He was a piece, and an important one given the direction of the team when Henne got hurt, but he's probably best suited to a team that will run the ball a lot, play defense, and expect him to make plays off of that run game.
I don't see him as a QB who can be "the man" ....... but he is probably about as close as you get from that list of players.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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http://m.si.com/1611234/peter-king-3/SI's Peter King's fantasy-land musings of us nabbing Flacco...
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Peter King speculates on Joe Flacco to the Browns: Quote:
Was it only me listening to Baltimore owner Steve Bisciotti and trusted GM Ozzie Newsome the other day, thinking they're going to throw the first big changeup into this offseason? Was it only me taking their words and reading resolve in them, and thinking it's actually possible that Joe Flacco could be stolen by a quarterback-needy and starved-for-relevance team like Cleveland?
Listening to Bisciotti and Newsome, you'd be a fool to think it's not possible. Probable? No. But look at the tea leaves. The Ravens have until March 4 to sign or put a franchise tag on Flacco, whose rookie contract expired after his heroic postseason run. If they don't sign him to a contract by then, the Ravens have to decide whether to designate Flacco their franchise player or their exclusive-rights franchise player.
The difference: Exclusive-rights franchise players are frozen to their teams, and cannot negotiate elsewhere. Franchise players can seek offers from the other 31 teams, and if they sign one of those offers, their original team can choose to match the offer as it is written, or surrender the player and get the signing team's next two first-round picks in return.
It has been presumed that if the Ravens can't sign Flacco before the March 4 franchise-tagging deadline that they'd exercise the exclusive tag. That would mean committing a $20 million guaranteed salary -- with another $24 million due Flacco in 2014 if Baltimore had to exercise a tag again next year. Two years, $44 million ... significantly more than Drew Brees, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady make now. The regular franchise tag for quarterbacks, meanwhile, is $14.5 million.
Don't be so sure of that exclusive tag. The Ravens were $5 million over the league's $121 million salary cap at the close of business Friday, and that figure doesn't include a dime for Flacco. Now listen to what Bisciotti and Newsome said Thursday:
Bisciotti: "We've proven it two years in a row that we can kind of shock the world and disappoint our fans at the same time, by letting some of these guys go, but letting young guys fill in and then going out and getting good values on the free-agent market.''
Newsome: "We will not repeat what we did in 2001 [after winning the Super Bowl, when Baltimore restructured and overspent to make one more run at a title]. We're trying to build where we can win Super Bowls more than just one more time. I think our team is structured differently this time also. We do have some veterans that will probably be retiring but we have a great nucleus of young players and players that are just heading into their prime that we're going to build this team around.''
The best solution, of course, is for Ravens' chief negotiator Pat Moriarty, who meets with Flacco's agent, Joe Linta, this week in Baltimore, to iron out a contract putting Flacco up in the upper stratosphere of quarterbacks with a contract that would be cap-friendly in the next two flat-cap years. Say, six years, $18.5 million a year, $111 million total, with cap numbers of $9 million and $14 million in the next two years. That's where I'd attempt to draw the line.
Would the Ravens dare let Flacco go -- to Cleveland, in the division, to a bitter rival, or to another team like Buffalo or Arizona? Would the Ravens be confident enough in their ability to retool on the fly with two extra first-rounders to deal for Alex Smith, let's say, and throw the gauntlet down and say to the Browns: Go ahead and take Flacco; we'll beat you anyway?
The top of the quarterback-salary standings is going to change quite a bit in the next year or so. Matt Ryan's deal is up in Atlanta after the 2013 season; Aaron Rodgers' contract runs through 2014. Both Atlanta and Green Bay are likely to try to get those extended before they expire, and what happens to Flacco could greatly influence both contracts. The top five average salaries for quarterbacks now.
Flacco is 28. He is at the peak of his earning potential right now, coming off an incredible postseason (4-0, 11 touchdowns, no interceptions). He is a principled guy. It'd be interesting to see how he'd react if no team stepped up with an offer sheet and he had to return to the Ravens to play in 2013 for significantly less than he was offered last offseason by the club -- and before he became Joe Clutch in January and February. He would not be pleased. What would that mean? A holdout? Rancor of some other sort? I don't know. But playing for $14.5 million would not make Flacco happy.
Let's look at the field now. Cleveland was $48 million under the cap as of Friday. Signing Flacco would rob the Browns of the sixth overall pick in this year's draft, plus their first-rounder next year. Because the Browns used their second-round pick on receiver Josh Gordon in the Supplemental Draft last year, they wouldn't choose until 68th overall in April.
But think of the shot of adrenalin for the Browns, if they could rip away Flacco from a team they despise. What sweet irony for Cleveland, to steal the Super Bowl-winning quarterback from the team that stole their franchise. With new owner Jimmy Haslam and uber-aggressive president Joe Banner dying to make a splash to show their fans this won't be the same old Browns, imagine Cleveland signing Flacco for five years and $110 million, making him the highest-paid player in history. And say Cleveland makes the 2013 salary $35 million. That way it'd be almost impossible for Baltimore to match; if the Ravens balked at $20 million per, you think they'd accede to $35 million in Year 1?
So in my scenario, Baltimore passes on matching. Then the Ravens take the sixth pick in the 2013 first round and fortify the aging defense with the best linebacker or pass-rusher. Then, I'd assume, the Ravens would try to acquire a veteran quarterback in exchange for a mid-round pick (Alex Smith?) or a late-round pick (Matt Flynn?) and also draft a rookie, so that there would be two QBs in camp to compete with Tyrod Taylor for the starting job. The Ravens with two addition first-round picks over the next two drafts ... a dangerous proposition considering what a strong personnel and scouting staff Newsome oversees.
Cleveland's not the only team that could be interested. Ralph Wilson would write the check tomorrow for Flacco to come to Buffalo, draft picks be damned. The Bills are only $14.2 million under the cap, so they'd have to maneuver a few pricey contracts. But the Bills would have to think long and hard about Flacco. Cleveland, with its available riches, would be the best candidate.
Then there's the issue of whether Flacco would want to leave. He wouldn't; I can promise you that. But he would if he felt he'd made a fair proposal to the Ravens and they turned it down.
One more thing about what Bisciotti and Newsome implied the other day. Committing a cap number of $20 million to Flacco this year would cut off the ability to franchise any other players in the next two years -- like much-needed linebacker Dannell Ellerbe or pass-rusher Paul Kruger this year -- and it hamstrings the ability of the team to make smart football decisions over the next two years. Exclusive-tagging Flacco would likely, but not certainly, mean the losses of Ellerbe and Kruger and the iconic Ed Reed, and maybe even Anquan Boldin if he won't lower his $7.5 million salary for 2013. Reed's understandable. Losing two of the others, or all three, would be major blows.
Bisciotti and Newsome have to know the answer to the test before they sit down to take it. They have to accept the fact that they'd be willing, under the worst-case scenario, to lose Flacco before tagging him with the lesser designation March 4. It's a big gamble. If you're a Ravens' fans, you have to hope it doesn't come to that -- and that Linta and Moriarty can get a long-term deal in the next three weeks.
Link
Unlikely, but interesting. Would you give up two first round picks for Flacco?
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Just for the record, I don't believe there is any chance of us landing Flacco.
But for the fun of it, yeah I would. He's not in the upper tier of QB's. That class is Brady-Manning-Brees-Rodgers.
He's in the next class, Eli and Ben. Hard to put Ryan and Stafford in there because they haven't won, and Eli, Ben and Flacco have (for various reasons)
I think a 2nd tier QB is worth 2 first rounders. QB's are at a premium. The NFL has divided it's league in to 2 groups, the teams with QB's, and the teams looking for one.
Can we flip this around for a second. Why on earth would Baltimore get rid of him? After everything I said, they just want to dump him? Why, because he's not in that elite class? Good luck looking for another QB if this whole thing was true. Unless Ozzie sees a complete rebuild. I do think they have the pieces to take a year off and come right back.
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If you read the article I posted, it says that they want to keep him, but if a team throws a ton of money at him it will be impossible.
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Quote:
If you read the article I posted, it says that they want to keep him, but if a team throws a ton of money at him it will be impossible.
I think a lot of teams will throw it out there, not just us. You know if the Jets are able to, they will, because New York can't go a day without throwing money at a star player.
A good chunk of this league has no QB, so I think there will be many teams interested. We happen to be in a prime spot because of our flexibility.
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We are the only team that has no QB and enough money to sign Flacco without making any other moves. The Jets are currently something like $21 million over the cap.
DISCLAIMER: I don't actually think we will sign Joe Flacco.
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Well, the JETS are not able to. They're almost $20 million over (worst in the league) and will cut Pace, Scott, and have been trying to trade Revis or Cromartie.
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Could be a win/win for us any way. Someone is going to have to restructure their team to sign him, even if that means Baltimore.
So there may be some very good young players that we can sign with our space, either that or we're bringing in a QB who just won the SB.
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I would definitely try to sign Flacco if the opportunity exists. He's a very good QB who continues to improve as he goes along in the league.
Vick is now out of the picture as the Eagles signed him to a 1 year deal. I find it highly unlikely that they would do so just to trade him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
If you read the article I posted, it says that they want to keep him, but if a team throws a ton of money at him it will be impossible.
yeah, but it's not just the money, it could end up being the next two 1st rounders as well.
He's a damn fine QB, but do you bet the future of the franchise on him?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Flacco has been not only consistent, but has improved consistently.
He had 60 ...... yes, 60 pass plays of 20+ yards last year. That's staggering. His TD passes will always be suppressed a bit in Baltimore because they have such a great RB in Ray Rice, and that eliminates the need for the Ravens to pass a ton down close. (Much like us last year with Richardson) The Ravens as a team ran for 15 TD last year, in addition to Flacco passing for 22.
Flacco has never thrown more than 12 INT in any season, despite taking shots down the field.
In the playoffs this tear, he threw 11 TD and ZERO INT. That's amazing.
As someone said earlier, either in this thread, or another ........ Flacco isn't a top tier guy like a Brady or a Peyton Manning ...... but he is right there on the next level. Is that worth a pair of #1 picks? IMHO, absolutely.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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jc...
Legit question: has the league expressly forbidden poison pills?
I'd take a long hard look at Flacco. The questions I'd have to ask myself would be "how much of Baltimore's success do we attribute to his play?" and "do we think Weeden can be at a comparable place during his third season?" (note: I'm not positing these questions to the board...I know what y'all think already). My answers to those questions determine whether I'm willing to or not. Two firsts is a lot to give up. I have to have complete conviction in my decision to surrender them.
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Flacco has been not only consistent, but has improved consistently.
no, he has been consistent, but 2010 was his best season.
the downside of Joe Flacco:
*Never hit 4000yds in a season
*Never had more than 25TDs in a season
*Completion% regressed the last 2 seasons
*YPA for career between 6.7 and 7.4
the good of Flacco:
*2010 he was really, really good. 25TDs, 10INTs, career-best 7.4YPA, 93.6QBrating
*2:1 TD:INT ratio is consistent and good.
*Quick trigger leads to few sacks between 30-40 throughout career
*Obviously, comes from a winning background - playoffs every year + 9 playoff wins already (same as Peyton Manning in 10 less seasons)
#gmstrong
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jc...
Legit question: has the league expressly forbidden poison pills?
I'd take a long hard look at Flacco. The questions I'd have to ask myself would be "how much of Baltimore's success do we attribute to his play?" and "do we think Weeden can be at a comparable place during his third season?" (note: I'm not positing these questions to the board...I know what y'all think already). My answers to those questions determine whether I'm willing to or not. Two firsts is a lot to give up. I have to have complete conviction in my decision to surrender them.
It's a really tough question to ask. The year before Flacco got to town, the Browns swept Baltimore. They were a team with a decent defense going nowhere.
Flacco is good, but he also has a slew of weapons. Top tier RB, pretty solid OL, very good group of receivers. Defense behind him is still pretty good but not as good as they were some years ago.
It's not all Flacco, but he's also not a product of some system. He makes plays. And any way you slice it going 11/0 in the post-season is Brady-esque.
Chicago gave up Kyle Orton, two firsts, and a third for Cutler and a 5th.
I think they are similar QB's.
If you ask me, Chicago isn't regretting it, even if they didn't get to the SB. They have enjoyed good football, some bad luck with injuries, but still have a good future.
For 2 firsts, I would do it. I mean we gave up an extra first for Brady Quinn, what's one more for a guy who won the SB?
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The other downside of Joe Flacco is that he doesn't appear to know the rules of the game Like, "hey, if he breaks one, let's tackle him? 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
jc...
Legit question: has the league expressly forbidden poison pills?
I'd take a long hard look at Flacco. The questions I'd have to ask myself would be "how much of Baltimore's success do we attribute to his play?" and "do we think Weeden can be at a comparable place during his third season?" (note: I'm not positing these questions to the board...I know what y'all think already). My answers to those questions determine whether I'm willing to or not. Two firsts is a lot to give up. I have to have complete conviction in my decision to surrender them.
Poison pills were taken out in the new CBA.
In theory the Browns could structure a contract that would be like a poison pill contract but be legal. For example the Browns could offer $50,000,000 in the first year and a team friendly contract thereafter. The Ravens, who are over the cap, wouldn't be able to match that deal without dumping some really valuable players.
It's all a moot point though. Flacco and the Ravens will either come to an agreement, otherwise the Ravens will very very likely use the exclusive franchise tender, meaning other teams wouldn't be able to negotiate.
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otherwise the Ravens will very very likely use the exclusive franchise tender
which is why it's smart for the Browns FO to leak out to the press that we would go after Flacco.
the exclusive franchise tag is $22mil for QBs. that means less cap room the next 2 years for the Ravens. put the pressure on the Ravens to get him a good deal and less cap room for themselves.
#gmstrong
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otherwise the Ravens will very very likely use the exclusive franchise tender
which is why it's smart for the Browns FO to leak out to the press that we would go after Flacco.
the exclusive franchise tag is $22mil for QBs. that means less cap room the next 2 years for the Ravens. put the pressure on the Ravens to get him a good deal and less cap room for themselves.
I like this idea. I dont know that Flacco would look nearly as good on our team.
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Quote:
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otherwise the Ravens will very very likely use the exclusive franchise tender
which is why it's smart for the Browns FO to leak out to the press that we would go after Flacco.
the exclusive franchise tag is $22mil for QBs. that means less cap room the next 2 years for the Ravens. put the pressure on the Ravens to get him a good deal and less cap room for themselves.
Exactly. Do everything you can to hurt a division rival. The Ravens are going to lose a lot of players this off-season, as are the Steelers, make them lose as many players as possible.
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Really, a team is just going to let the reining SB MVP walk to a division rival in the prime of his career?
And not only that, a QB is going to LEAVE the team he just won a SB with?
I just don't see this happening.. And I don't know how I feel about giving the Ravens he #6 (I don't worry too much about next years as I doubt we'd miss the playoffs with Flacco in Chud's system)
We would still have to fill a couple more hole via FA to be able to not draft till round 3...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I highly highly doubt Flacco gets away from Baltimore. That said, he just wrapped up his rookie deal and has done more during that time than most QBs will do in their entire careers. He's going to want a long term deal. A franchise tag means he's playing on a one-year deal on a team that will probably regress a bit, which could perceivably hurt his market value.
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If you read the article I posted, it says that they want to keep him, but if a team throws a ton of money at him it will be impossible.
yeah, but it's not just the money, it could end up being the next two 1st rounders as well.
He's a damn fine QB, but do you bet the future of the franchise on him?
And do you give a division rival and the most despised team in the eyes of the fan base (yes, even more than Putzburgh) two consecutive first rounders from your team? Then, you have to pay him mountains of money!
I don't think that it'll ever happen.
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I favor DA because he would be the most able to mentor Weeden in this particular offense. But if we are looking for potential starters I agree with your list. Kind of a lousy crop of FA's this year. Of that bunch I would probably favor Leftwich for this offense, but the guy has almost zero mobility at this point.
I'd like to have Brady Quinn come in as QB #3 and see what we can make of him. And it would excite a craziness in our fan's that could only be paralleled by signing Vick.
Nothing personal King, this is in reference to several postings....
Derek Anderson AND/OR Brady Quinn
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Dude is 29 years old and isn't an established QB. He should worry about his job.
Yep. LOL 
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I would give any team our 1st round pick for two years if it meant we were getting an elite QB that we could rely on for the long term.
Is Joe Flacco elite, the best option available, both, or neither?
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Is Joe Flacco elite
Dude just QB'd a team to a Super Bowl without throwing one INT the ENTIRE POSTSEASON. I don't care if he's not Rodgers or Brady, that's pretty dang good..
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the best option available, both, or neither?
If he ever actually becomes an option (i doubt so) then he IMMEDIATELY becomes the best one... Especially considering the offense we're running..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I agree. If there is a 0.0000001% chance we can get him we should try. As mentioned above just forcing the Ravens to overpay is worth the effort.
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I would give any team our 1st round pick for two years if it meant we were getting an elite QB that we could rely on for the long term.
Is Joe Flacco elite, the best option available, both, or neither?
Do you want my view or reality?
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I agree. If there is a 0.0000001% chance we can get him we should try. As mentioned above just forcing the Ravens to overpay is worth the effort.
I'm not opposed to bringing him in for the QB competition, but just know that you're going to overpay him if you bring him in. There are other teams that are seeking QBs and may be willing to pay him the money he wants. The Browns could front load any contract, for sure, but doing so would limit your ability to fill other holes. And if the Ravens tag him with the two 1st rounders tag for any team that outbids them, then I pass on him. I don't make a counter offer.
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And do you give a division rival and the most despised team in the eyes of the fan base (yes, even more than Putzburgh) two consecutive first rounders from your team? Then, you have to pay him mountains of money!
I dislike the Steelers way more...
Thinking upon this..Would the Ravens benefit from our first round picks, being what spot they would pick at. What they need and who would be available at that spot.
And what else would burn their asses more , if we did get Joe cool and beat their asses every year he was here. Maybe the mountains of money would be worth the mountain of laughter.
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I'm not opposed to bringing him in for the QB competition
Does that mean you don't think Flacco is better than Weeden?
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but just know that you're going to overpay him if you bring him in.
That is the nature of the best. If you are a free agent and teams want you they will overpay to get you.
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The Browns could front load any contract, for sure, but doing so would limit your ability to fill other holes.
We could give Flacco $20 million and still have about $15 million to spend on other free agents.
I think it is highly unlikely that we sign Flacco. But we don't currently have a QB, Flacco would answer a lot of questions for us.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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I dislike the Steelers way more...
I respect the Steelers more. I despise everything about the Ravens. Not an iota of them that I could ever cheer on. I would actively cheer against them except against the Steelers and then, I would hope for career-ending injuries for the Ravens players in a Pyrrhic tie score.
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Thinking upon this..Would the Ravens benefit from our first round picks, being what spot they would pick at. What they need and who would be available at that spot.
Yes, they would benefit from having the #6 overall pick this year and (judging by the Browns drafts in recent history) a likely Top 10 pick next year.
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And what else would burn their asses more , if we did get Joe cool and beat their asses every year he was here. Maybe the mountains of money would be worth the mountain of laughter.
The mountains of money wouldn't guarantee anything.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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Does that mean you don't think Flacco is better than Weeden?
No. It means that I don't think any player in the NFL should ever feel that they are anointed to a job.
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That is the nature of the beast. If you are a free agent and teams want you they will overpay to get you.
Not always. And value is what value is. Depends upon the position, the number of teams trying to land a player and whatever other conditions that the player may have outside of these factors.
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We could give Flacco $20 million and still have about $15 million to spend on other free agents.
Or you can draft a QB like Indy did last year. They had Peyton Manning on the roster and signed but cut ties with him and drafted Andrew Luck.
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I think it is highly unlikely that we sign Flacco. But we don't currently have a QB, Flacco would answer a lot of questions for us.
Maybe. Many of Weeden's supporters (and you should know from my posts that I am not one) would beg to differ with you. Just don't bring up that Flacco is actually younger than Weeden, even now.
I would not be opposed to drafting a QB in the draft or signing a free agent (maybe Flacco fits into this group) or even trading for a legitimate competitive QB. This wouldn't include Flacco if he's signed by BallsNoMore.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
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No. It means that I don't think any player in the NFL should ever feel that they are anointed to a job.
Any player? I can think of a few players that should have their jobs even if they miss all the OTAs and training camp.
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Or you can draft a QB like Indy did last year. They had Peyton Manning on the roster and signed but cut ties with him and drafted Andrew Luck.
That is harder to do than almost anything. You have to be bad and have a "can't miss" prospect be available in the same year. If we could draft an Andrew Luck I would obviously just do that.
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I would not be opposed to drafting a QB in the draft
I was hoping we could draft a QB in free agency. 
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I would not be opposed to drafting a QB in the draft or signing a free agent (maybe Flacco fits into this group) or even trading for a legitimate competitive QB. This wouldn't include Flacco if he's signed by BallsNoMore.
I don't really understand this statement.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 507
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 507 |
Who ever made the decision to waste the 22nd pick in the draft on a QB halfway to the average retirement age was to say the least, foolish. I didn't see anything worth keeping. He is not a scrambler and the spread offense is going to blossom. Archeologists will be looking for pocket passers in less then one season.
It was a dumb pick. A total waste.
Holmgren's epitaph: "They wanted too much for RGIII." So, we go out and get us a middle-aged rookie. Absolutely ludicrous.
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 507
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 507 |
of the 30 possible free agent QB's this year, I feel confident we can scratch at least 20% of them off of any list conceivable.
Luke McCown
Derek Anderson
Bruce Gradkowski
Seneca Wallace
Brady Quinn
Richard Bartel
Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 802
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 802 |
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Who ever made the decision to waste the 22nd pick in the draft on a QB halfway to the average retirement age was to say the least, foolish. I didn't see anything worth keeping. He is not a scrambler and the spread offense is going to blossom. Archeologists will be looking for pocket passers in less then one season.
RGIII, great as he is, suffered a concussion and a major knee injury in his FIRST YEAR. Think he can continue racking up those kinds of injuries, year after year? Chip Kelly went through QBs like they were toilet paper at Oregon. The spread/read option offense is exciting, but it is not the way to build and sustain a team for the long haul.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who will be the QB III
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