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However, that reason is secondary to the fact that I think Milliner is a superior player to any of the edge rushers out there. I am not saying I am right. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinion.
Agree with the CB need, and also on Milliner specifically, but I am worried he will be gone when we pick. Vers, what are your thoughts on Xavier Rhodes?
If Milliner and Jones are gone @ #6 I think we have too trade out if possible ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Vers and Big Willie. WHY would you guys want to pass on an OLB that can get to the QB and into the backfield and take a CB at 6?
I think that we need good corners if we are going to run such an aggressive defense. It's imperative to have guys who can cover when you expose your defense by attacking so much. However, that reason is secondary to the fact that I think Milliner is a superior player to any of the edge rushers out there. I am not saying I am right. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinion.
I do find it perplexing and amusing how many people get bent out of shape over who we should take. Who cares if another person disagrees w/you? Really, what's the big deal? It's all speculative. I think it is cool to pimp your guy and provide reasons why we should draft him, but this talk about having no credibility because someone supports another player is absurd. The bickering is annoying. How about we just talk football?
I look at the great Steelers defenses throughout the years, and they have had some crappy CB .... but they could always get after the QB. The thing that made those defenses so intimidating isn't great CB play, but a ferocious pass rush that put QBs on their heels from the time they set foot in the stadium.
I'm not discounting the value of a great CB, but given the choice between a great pass rusher, or a great coverage CB, I have a feeling that Horton would take the pass rusher. He can lessen the amount of time the receiver has to get open, and can lessen the pressure on every DB on the field. If a guy only has to cover for a couple of seconds, it's much easier for him to do his job than if he has to cover all day, and all the way down the field.
Further, the Steelers have always managed to find a way to work a great pass rusher into their defense, even if he was more 1 dimensional player. Woodley isn't some great tackling machine. His high water mark is 50 tackles in a season. That's not why they have him on their team. The fact that he had seasons with 11.5, 13.5, 10, and 9 sacks is.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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nfldraftgeek
You've discredited yourself right there...might as well cite nfldraftcountdown Guess it took you a while to find some hobby crap site that has him at #1, lol (so much for cherry picking)
Are you so dense that you missed the entire point?
Guess that's a rhetorical question...
And Hel, whoops! I did a stretch of two 80+ hour weeks back-to-back, just now getting days off. I'm certain there's been a ton I missed in that time, but the points remain.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I now live in SEC country and watch a lot of their games.
I have not dissected the video on Jones, but from what I saw--I was disappointed.
He does have great numbers. He does make some plays. However, I thought he often took himself out of a lot of plays and teams gashed Georgia's defense on his side of the field. He is a gambler. Not fundamentally sound.
I will watch video on him and give a report, but I can't help remembering that when I watched him during games this year.
Sounds like the next Mike Junkin - or Ray Maluaga - god forbid 
I am on the fence on Jones and statements like this just push me to Milner or trade down, if we can.
Be anxious to read your analysis
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Been away for a while so just read a lot here n made some mental notes.
1. Jones condition didn't just go pwang A MIRACLE just at the right time. Its all about the Bozo's They are the ones who went off of the USC medical reports. He had an injury n they made an assessment while there was Swelling which probably gave the appearance of the stenosis. Georgia Doctors assessed he was good to play without any further risk involved. That was weeks after the USC...I'm taking a guess n the swelling went down a bit n it looked different. The Bozo's never got a hold of the medical reports cause they are private...USC made a reported statement...Georgia did not. Now we have a system put in to find anything (Heart problem with Utah kid he didn't know) but it works the other way around.
All these test revealed that the original diagnosis of the USC Doctors were wrong...it was an injury with possibly that appearance. They did not wait for the swelling to subside (which usually is 101 procedure for diagnosis) not a doctor so any doctors out there who know my Layman stuff is wrong please correct me. USC has scholarships involved...so they made a quick decision and probably did not investigate with a multitude of test. GA made their test and were comfortable with him playing.
The Combine with the most investigative medical n especially where a proposed existing injury is concerned go where no man has gone before! The prognosis was not a miracle - just a result of the extensive test involved...more extensive than USC. I am glad for the young man. NO STENOSIS...the kid is back in the game where he was before the Draft NICKS were dropping him from only reports from BOZO'S  The reality is - Jones is where he was on every NFL board with not much movement...its the Draft nicks going up n down. So they ran with Stenosis n dropped him...now that he had dropped he moves back slowly to them 
2. As this shapes up especially after FA markets are gets divied up. The top 5 are very predictable...sometimes the top 10. In our case we only care about the top 5 cause we are at 6. At least that is where I am focused at.
1. Seems to be locking in at Joeckel Left Tackle.
2. Should be Fisher but this is the question mark I think in the top 5. Could be Millner?
3. Should be Lloyd DT from Florida...or is it Floyd...lol 
4. n 5. very key. Eagles might go Millner if available They are going to a 3-4 D I hope they go with Jordan...cause most have him coming to us n out of the big 3 (Ansah, Jones, Jordan) he is the one that scares me the most. Stenosis? Freaking Shoulder injuries are the kiss of death for LBs! They are the ones to watch for in taking Jones...This is where he was being slotted before all the Stenosis BS...Somewhere in the top 5.
If the Eagles do not take Millner I believe the Lions are going in that direction. If Millner is gone it could very well be Ansah as all the Draft Nicks are now slotting him for their pick.
Which leaves us at 6. For me Ansah is the best pick. Its not just his Freak physical specs...its combining that with his amazing ability to Learn the game n technique!
But if Ansah goes. Jones is the guy. Sorry I don't go by Scouting reports. I do when I have not been able to watch somebody play enough to make my own assessments. In the case of Jones I saw enough Georgia games n against some very good competition. There is no LB in this draft with a quicker FIRST STEP n then followed by Explosion...Yes I prefer Ansah...but Jones is close behind. I'm not going to worry about the What if's as in his pursuit 5 yards down the field - we got freaking coaches to coach these players up to NFL standards. YOU CANNOT TEACH what this kid brings to the table. Elite edge rusher is our Number 1 need has been since Courtney Brown got injured. It is a position we will not see in FA. With Eagles going to 3-4 that is what scares me. Not going to debate Millner cause I believe since there is a wide gap from Millner to the next CB...he could go #2, 4 or 5. The odds are to me he is GONE.
If he drops I have to wonder why? What did they see that had him not going to one of those Teams. Jags are going to be the mystery Team. The medical stuff should not be about Jones...he has a clean bill of health from the most credible extensive source put together by the NFL for this very purpose! Its about the kid from UTAH..cause if healthy he could be going at #2. If Fisher drops to us...that could be a good drop back scenario n not too far where we can still get our targeted player n an early 2nd round pick 
There is one thing that keeps popping in my head. Before the smoke n mirror stuff started with the draft. There was an article by one of the beat writers...Pluto? I don't think it was Mary Kay...but it was an interview with our Personnel dept. The jist of the article was we were going to go Defense with our pick (an obvious) but what came out in that interview was that we were targeting somebody that will be a surprise but he already is climbing up the board. Jones n Millner were in the top 5 so that told me its not one of them (at the time) For me it was them talking about Ansah...I hope it isn't them talking about Jordan who was Mid round at that Time. Ansah was 2nd round moving into the first n now we see often in the top 5.
I hope Ansah...I fear Jordan. I would be ecstatic if it was Jones! We need a player who can Dominate a game n make everyone else better. Millner can indeed help the Browns but I don't see him as that Game Impact player...but as stated I really don't wish to debate him as our pick cause I think he is 95% gone.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Typical Toad hiding behind "I didn't really say it", as you've even quoted Ansah's report from that site to match your opinion...so do you share it or not?
I also addressed your non-point-"point" saying that it based on what I've written in here about Jones, it's pretty clear that I disagree a ton with that report, as mine is obviously even more negative on him.
It was what it was, a simple FWIW/FYI post of a report I read minutes earlier....and you make politics out of it...yet again
Vers is right, let's talk football and shut the politics. We obviously disagree watching Jones and Ansah, cool. As I said, we'll see in 2-3 years from now...
Btw, I find it somehwat funny that everyone "agrees" that Milliner is the "safest" pick for one of our needs...and to a degree, I agree with that...it's just that I pimped (and mock drafted) Claiborne exactly one year ago and he was almost a carbon copy of Milliner....and people went gaga over a RB. Since when is RB a bigger value position than CB?
Who'd like to have Claiborne on the roster now instead of TRich and instead of throwing 6-10mil at a FA CB, we could bring in a S.Jax or Bradshaw for fractions of that money....
value, value, value...another lesson
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Good post overall EO...Jones' injury doesn't even interest me, as I think he's not worth a 1st by his play alone. We just don't know, but if we were in the FO we would know, the medical is a yes/no kind of thing, he either gets cleared by your docs or not...if he's cleared it should be a non issue, although it will be in the back of ones mind Anyway, here's the debate-worthy part of your post Quote:
I'm not going to worry about the What if's as in his pursuit 5 yards down the field - we got freaking coaches to coach these players up to NFL standards. YOU CANNOT TEACH what this kid brings to the table.
I simply disagree here, as I think there's only so much coaches can do to "make you hustle", similarly to athletic ability...you can get a little stronger or faster in a TC and you can get "coached up" to play all out like Rubin....but I don't like the chances of reaching a young man who was rewarded with millions to his account by NOT playing with a high motor consistently...he SHOULD have been motivated by that once he was talked about as a 1st rounder...instead, he relaxed and was all about the personal stats to boost his image....then you reward him despite playing inconsistent...why should he change?
It's a common misconception that you can "coach up" willingness but not athleticism...to me, there's only so much you can do on both sides...and there always are rare exceptions for BOTH (tell Tom Brady that you can't teach a strong arm, lol)
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I am very happy with Trent Richardson ... Thank You
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Cool, I just think
Claiborne + SJAx/Bradshaw + 3-5mil for another starter > TRich + 6-10mil FA CB (Cason, Lewis, DRC)
Point is: FA CBs are always more expensive than FA RBs and usually you have less on the market...this season is a rare exception because so many teams are near the cap already. When I was advocating drafting Claiborne over TRich, I was thinking long term....add to that positional longevity and the trade up cost to get TRich and it was bad value all over
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Cool, I just think
Claiborne + SJAx/Bradshaw + 3-5mil for another starter > TRich + 6-10mil FA CB (Cason, Lewis, DRC)
Point is: FA CBs are always more expensive than FA RBs and usually you have less on the market...this season is a rare exception because so many teams are near the cap already. When I was advocating drafting Claiborne over TRich, I was thinking long term....add to that positional longevity and the trade up cost to get TRich and it was bad value all over
I understand where you are coming from, but I feel TRICH is one of those "Special" RB's 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Trust me Vers n I did not have Trent on our list last year. I don't think we had Claiborne either though...different draft different systems different team - biggest needs were in the O last year I guess. Millner does not justify your pimping of Claiborne last year which apparently is important to you  I was so hooked on RG3...from October was pimping him n was told by dawgs he wasn't a first round prospect. Thought for sure we would get him...then he just climbed out of our grasps the last minute n I got so so depressed I didn't have a favorite.
CBs don't go high (might change with the new CBA rookie contracts not being great risk) but the rules make CB a tough pick to change the game with a top 5 pick...even sometimes #7 is frowned upon (us for Haden as in for a CB that high???) because of the impact. Also because of the 2nd contracts being so high due to the steady Over Payments from FA has driven up their contract negotiations. So more n more get let go...so why Train a kid make him better for the NFL then lose him after 5 years. Why they have dropped in the NFL status for draft.
This draft class is very different than 2012. There is not much separating the top 10 and the ones who might have obvious Top 5 have big time ??? about them. Jones was one of them but from the Medical Report via the NFL Combine...he is back to the top 5 without the ??? that were there. I do think he is more attractive to 3-4 teams rather than 4-3 due to his size or lack of. Also he was LB not DE. So that Chiefs n Eagles are the only 3-4 teams ahead of us??? Are the Raiders going to 3-4? or sticking w/4-3?
But Millner carries more weight in the top 5...similar to RB Brown, actually I think 3 RBs in the top 5 for the 2005 draft cause that was a weak up front draft as well. 2 years later in a strong up front draft we have AP a great RB going #7. So the different draft classes do change a lot on Who n Where get chosen. This year Millner has greater value than if he had come out last year (not saying he was eligible to just saying him in last years draft would have been different).
Possibly you have me on ignore??? well I did not ignore you obviously. Just want to talk football with ya.
As always JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Why should I have you on ignore? Nah  What's important to me is "value"...aquisition (draft/FA) specific (you made a good point about that with regards to this draft compared to last year's), position specific (longevity, position scarcity), money/contract...and all that in the context of competing with 31 other teams in a league. It's like a very, very deep fantasy draft, just a lot more complicated, lol That said, I pimped myself for taking Claiborne over TRich because those were exactly my arguments 12 months ago....positional value, longevity etc
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However, that reason is secondary to the fact that I think Milliner is a superior player to any of the edge rushers out there. I am not saying I am right. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinion.
Agree with the CB need, and also on Milliner specifically, but I am worried he will be gone when we pick. Vers, what are your thoughts on Xavier Rhodes?
If Milliner and Jones are gone @ #6 I think we have too trade out if possible ... JMHO
I wasn't suggesting Rhodes at #6, I was just looking to get an opinion on him.
It's always easy to say "trade down." But you need someone wanting to pay to move up.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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However, that reason is secondary to the fact that I think Milliner is a superior player to any of the edge rushers out there. I am not saying I am right. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinion.
Agree with the CB need, and also on Milliner specifically, but I am worried he will be gone when we pick. Vers, what are your thoughts on Xavier Rhodes?
If Milliner and Jones are gone @ #6 I think we have too trade out if possible ... JMHO
I wasn't suggesting Rhodes at #6, I was just looking to get an opinion on him.
It's always easy to say "trade down." But you need someone wanting to pay to move up.
There is always someone looking to move up, especially now with rookie salary cap ... and I like Rhodes but more toward the middle to late first .... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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There is always someone looking to move up, especially now with rookie salary cap ... and I like Rhodes but more toward the middle to late first .... JMHO
Problem is, there are teams at 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 that might like Rhodes, Milliner, and/or Trufant.
Then what?
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There is always someone looking to move up, especially now with rookie salary cap ... and I like Rhodes but more toward the middle to late first .... JMHO
Problem is, there are teams at 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 that might like Rhodes, Milliner, and/or Trufant.
Then what?
There is only one CB going in the top 10 (Milliner) ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Vers and Big Willie. WHY would you guys want to pass on an OLB that can get to the QB and into the backfield and take a CB at 6?
I think that we need good corners if we are going to run such an aggressive defense. It's imperative to have guys who can cover when you expose your defense by attacking so much. However, that reason is secondary to the fact that I think Milliner is a superior player to any of the edge rushers out there. I am not saying I am right. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinion.
I do find it perplexing and amusing how many people get bent out of shape over who we should take. Who cares if another person disagrees w/you? Really, what's the big deal? It's all speculative. I think it is cool to pimp your guy and provide reasons why we should draft him, but this talk about having no credibility because someone supports another player is absurd. The bickering is annoying. How about we just talk football?
I look at the great Steelers defenses throughout the years, and they have had some crappy CB .... but they could always get after the QB. The thing that made those defenses so intimidating isn't great CB play, but a ferocious pass rush that put QBs on their heels from the time they set foot in the stadium.
I'm not discounting the value of a great CB, but given the choice between a great pass rusher, or a great coverage CB, I have a feeling that Horton would take the pass rusher. He can lessen the amount of time the receiver has to get open, and can lessen the pressure on every DB on the field. If a guy only has to cover for a couple of seconds, it's much easier for him to do his job than if he has to cover all day, and all the way down the field.
Further, the Steelers have always managed to find a way to work a great pass rusher into their defense, even if he was more 1 dimensional player. Woodley isn't some great tackling machine. His high water mark is 50 tackles in a season. That's not why they have him on their team. The fact that he had seasons with 11.5, 13.5, 10, and 9 sacks is.
They also had some great Safeties as well.. But you are right, I don't remember that many great CB's... LB's and Safeties and a Dline.
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Ignore...glad. Same here somebody suggested using Ignore...I'm like no I'd rather talk football than ignore
Yeah I'm a
QB, LT, ELITE PASS RUSHER, COVER CORNER are the RARE SKILL positions in the NFL to get ahead of other teams....get LT n now RT becoming important...2 Elite Pass Rushers for each side n 2 Cover Corners...along with the most important QB. You are ahead of all other teams...cause all other positions can have more available with the skill set needed.
Happy we got Trent...playing the draft game not my guy...the day or two after known we weren't getting RG3...very depressing. I was thinking Blackmon over Trent only cause we could get one (RB) at #22 Vers was pimping Martin. I was thinking maybe Weeden in the 2nd round??? But wanted that RT at #22. Very happy w/Schwartz.
I've learned once the draft is made...it doesn't have to go exactly how I wanted. RG3 was a dream of mine all the way back in Oct. 2011 - One of the few times I was a little heart broken...so had no real favorite.
This Draft is Strong in Left Tackle n Pass Rusher for Top 15. Week in most other areas. With UTAH kid there ok in DT. Millner only top 15 CB. QB none, RB none, WR none...QB n WR most in number last 10 years for Top 10 pick...so a big void.
I got us for 2 Ansah or Jones! As my wish...after we get Kruger all the more. Take a weakness n make it a strength!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Vers is right, let's talk football and shut the politics.
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Typical Toad hiding behind "I didn't really say it",
Try taking the advice before you do the opposite. 
Now if you're going to suddenly preach it, you need to walk it. Keep that in mind and we can be friends.
Back to Ansah, Jones, and all the rest...
To me, Ansah can do work with strength, but I've noticed in all the footage I've seen he has a terrible habit of spinning away from an engagement to try and pursue. That's a technique issue. He also is fine when he can get a running start at someone, but in tight quarters he loses the use of his natural gifts because of the lack of hand-usage and leverage, which are two things he could learn from Jones.
Ansah has all the measurables and good power, but I seriously fear that when he gets to the NFL and every guy he see's on Sunday is capable, he could fail. Frankly, I'm torn on how I view the guy. Out in space he loses badly when blockers find him, but when he's on the line he's hard to move. When he's in a 2-point stance and can get a wide-berth to run at college TE's or RT's he can get good push on them, but in the NFL he won't be that successful with that because he lacks any pass-rush moves at all.
I'm forming the opinion that he brings more value as a 4-3 DE. That doesn't mean I think a team is nuts if they take him as an OLB in the 3-4, like I do if someone drafts Werner for OLB, but I think his natural strength can be used right out of the gate.
Now that I know Moore already had his pro-day and didn't do anything to move back up the charts, I would think he's a solid bet as a 2nd rounder and wouldn't mind seeing us take him if he's there. I think he's faster than what he ran, and I now believe he's under-valued.
I'm just not high on Mingo or Ansah because they are all about upside instead of production. Jordan is somewhat in the same mold.
They all have warts. I think I'm willing to lose some against the run with Jones to gain the disruption factor.
Of course all of this may go out the window if Kruger comes here, though it wouldn't shock me to see the Browns try and trade Sheard.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My take:
Jordan - Rare ability in coverage with solid pass-rushing upside. Really fluid athlete with great flexibility and bend. He would immediately be one of the best coverage linebackers in the NFL. He needs to improve as a rusher, but I see 10-sack upside. He won't be great against the run.
Mingo - He has the most pass-rushing upside. He could be an Aldon Smith, DeMarcus Ware, 20-sack type. His burst is incredible, and few pass-rushers are more flexible off the edge. He has a great motor and a versatile pass-rush repertoire. He could stand to bulk up, but his technique isn't bad against the run.
Ansah - He doesn't have the pass-rushing upside some think he does. He's not flexible enough to really be that outside, bend-the-arc guy. He's a power rusher who will use his burst and strength to get after the quarterback. If he learns to properly use leverage, he can be a 10-sack guy as well. He is already great against the run, as he combines great strength with really active and powerful hands.
Jones - Not a fan at all. He has decent burst and power, but he's too one-dimensional for me. He isn't as exceptional as many make him out to be. I would take him in the 20s. He is also really bad agains the run, and I don't really see him improving.
Carradine - If he didn't tear his ACL, he's a top-10 pick. He doesn't have great burst, but his power, closing speed, length and pass-rush repertoire make him the best defensive end in the draft. He is so similar to Jason Pierre-Paul. If he improves his stance and first step, he could be a best.
Werner - He has great snap anticipation and a good first step to go with it. He's fairly smooth, but he's not flexible and struggles to bend the edge. His motor is also a big concern, as is his overall run defense. High-risk, maybe high-reward.
Moore - He really isn't in this same discussion, but I'll include him anyway. He is really slow and lacks burst. I don't see him ever getting more than eight sacks in a given year. He should be solid against the run, but that's about it. Not a first-round pick to me.
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thanks DT
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So Deep knowing that we are gonna play a 3-4 but at times mix it up with other formations which one of those guys would you take?
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So Deep knowing that we are gonna play a 3-4 but at times mix it up with other formations which one of those guys would you take?
I remain on the fence here, but right now, I want Jordan. I wouldn't complain with any of Jordan, Ansah or Mingo, though. All are top-10 players to me.
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Vers is right, let's talk football and shut the politics.
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Typical Toad hiding behind "I didn't really say it",
Try taking the advice before you do the opposite.
Now if you're going to suddenly preach it, you need to walk it. Keep that in mind and we can be friends.
How about you quote in the order I posted those sentences?...I'm sure you knew what you were doing when you cut up those quotes...more politics from the frog
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Back to Ansah, Jones, and all the rest...
I think you're going too much on stats/production instead of good old eye evaluation...it's no coincidence you like Jones and Jordan over Ansah or Mingo...the former both played standing up at OLB, the others two played on the DL almost exclusively, if you can't see that this has a major impact on "production", then it's useless to discuss this further. As for "production", that's another part I disagree...production isn't just plays in the backfield, what's with the other 95% of the plays Jones wasn't able to make a play in the backfield? You act as if that's all what matters, I don't. It's cool if he gets a sack for -5yds, but not so cool if he gives up lots of yds to his sides on runs or screens because he's not playing with his head....to me "production" is ALL of that
Let's rate them on what we SEE, here's my list, and it's pretty close to Deep's:
vs Run:
1. Ansah
2. Moore
3. -5. Jordan, Mingo, Jones in no order, I think all 3 will struggle in the NFL
pass rush:
1. Mingo (speed, athleticism AND motor)
2. Ansah (power and motor, and the speed is there too, just needs reps and experience)
3.-5. in no order: Jones (speed and speed), Jordan (athleticism), Moore (motor and enough athleticism, see his SS and 3cone at ProDay)...all 3 are not balanced enough to be dominant imho
In coverage all 5 are projections and Jordan probably looks best because he simply was the only one with any experience there.I have my opinions based on some little things I saw with all of those guys, but it can go either way with all of them....that's coaching and how they respond to it....I like Jordan's, Ansah's and Mingo's chances there because of the mix of coachability and athleticism
With that said, it's easy to see why I'm high on Ansah, Moore and intrigued by Mingo. Jordan is just so meh across the board for me and even Deep, who seems to love him, said he'd be aliability against the run and has to improve as a rusher...sounds like a huge project to me, as you draft nickel-LB on day 3, not in the top 10...if there's a guy who's all projection, that guy is Jordan for me
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Vers and Big Willie. WHY would you guys want to pass on an OLB that can get to the QB and into the backfield and take a CB at 6?
I think that we need good corners if we are going to run such an aggressive defense. It's imperative to have guys who can cover when you expose your defense by attacking so much. However, that reason is secondary to the fact that I think Milliner is a superior player to any of the edge rushers out there. I am not saying I am right. I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. I am simply stating my opinion.
Don't be so defensive man.
I totally agree with the need for Corners. And we need 2.
I'm a huge advocate of taking STUDS in the Top 5 and not moving down for lesser talent. We need playmakers. And in the case of the CB's in this draft, specifically Milliner. I like Xavier Rhodes even more.
Horton's going to bring his corners up tight to the LOS and Rhodes is much better at this than Milliner. I also think Rhodes has better fluidity in the hips to turn and keep up. Simply put, Rhodes is a better fit for us.
Here's what I would do after signing Kruger and Bryant. And this is based on getting that #2 CB and a FS that provides solid over-the-top help that's required if you're going to put your corners on an island.
I'm seeing something here that seems to be setting us up for a big move down in the draft.
Lewis's demands for #1 CB money isn't going to fly with us because that money will go to Haden.
I bet we end up with Cason or Munnerlyn as an upgrade to the Nickel Spot and both are capable of filling in as a starter short-term. Drops Skrine to Dime Packages if he even makes this team.
As much as I would creme over Jarvis Jones opposite of Kruger, I gotta say I'm really liking a move like this.
Trade Down
Xavier Rhodes CB FSU
Matt Elam FS Florida
Brandon Moore TE and Cason or Mutterlyn won't cost much. We would have plenty of space left to work on Haden and Mack. And even Ward if we desire to.
We may just have a difference in opinion on Milliner VS Rhodes. Or do we? You still haven't said.
How bout You Big Willie? Milliner VS Rhodes? Whatcha got?
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Given where we have invested all of our FA dollars to date, 2 LBs (1 a "pass rush specialist" and the other a solid depth player) and a DL... do we still expect to go get another LB/pass rusher with the #6 pick? I'm starting to think it's unlikely.
I'm not saying I would mind, just that I think we may now have other targets in the draft...
yebat' Putin
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DL??? 2nd thread reading so I guess I'll get it as I read on.
Pick #6 will not change ONE BIT. What we are doing in FA is eliminating "Urgent Need" from the draft. I think before this we were almost obligated out of need to go OLB at #6.
Now it goes simply to BPA...if they got OLB on the board this doesn't change the pick. You don't get just the right amount of 3-4 LBs...you get MORE than enough...If Groves or Sheard were going to start opposite of Kruger...n we get ANSAH...btw the BPA at 6 by a wide margin. Unfortunately when I "KNOW" that as in no doubt at all - not being condescending or anything...not personal crapola...It just is very clear to me ANSAH is the special guy in this draft front...unless you need a Left Tackle. Of course when I am this sure...they just are not available when we pick  but just cause we get a Groves we do not pass up an awesome player like Ansah. Ware maybe? Groves sorry.
Same thing with Jones if that is our Targeted player. Keep in mind you have to envision (until we see it) this defense as different from all the 3-4 D's we have seen in the past. Attack...when you think so n so is weak at Run D...you might be thinking Discipline read n react where they got to learn how to keep distance from the OTs outside shoulder w/read n react. I envision at the snap there will be a designed explosion into a Gap...not like we saw where we saw the same 2 gap read n react. We will see him exploding up field...Crashing, Overloading tendencies we see on the film - looping inside. All done with explosion n speed from the snap creating CHAOS...well that is what I envision. I think Jones will be special in this D...Nobody will be as special as Ansah...but a close 2nd. Jordan is the 3rd guy but I hate shoulder injuries n this is a real injury not this Stinger Jones got at USC n was miss diagnosed.
But at #6..nothing changes...If Millner is our guy. We sign Keenen Lewis...it doesn't change a thing. We still take Millner. All this FA stuff does is eliminate Urgent Need...why I hope we do sign Lewis or another n unfortunately a lot of the TEs went quick but hope we sign one.
What these FA signings do change is probably the 3-6 round picks. Where to stock up with depth picks. But even so we probably go BPA at all positions except maybe OTs
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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Just commenting here ......
I am watching NFL Network and they were talking about the Steelers, and what they do to try and replace a guy like Harrison.
One name came up as a possible player the Steelers could try to make a move up for .... and it's a name that I have seen disparaged quite relentlessly by some people here.
Jarvis Jones.
The comment? "He just looks like a Pittsburgh Steeler".
I agree with that. If we are running the same defense as the Steelers ..... then he should look like a Cleveland Brown as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Pitt cannot afford to move up in the draft. They are in cap hell and they need as many young good players on cheap contracts as they can get.
#gmstrong
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Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Pitt cannot afford to move up in the draft. They are in cap hell and they need as many young good players on cheap contracts as they can get.
That's not really the point though. The point is that Jones looks like a perfect Steelers OLB. If he looks like that, and we run the exact same defense, then he looks like a perfect Browns OLB as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Pitt cannot afford to move up in the draft. They are in cap hell and they need as many young good players on cheap contracts as they can get.
That's not really the point though. The point is that Jones looks like a perfect Steelers OLB. If he looks like that, and we run the exact same defense, then he looks like a perfect Browns OLB as well.
Would love seeing Kruger and Jones as our OLB's ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Pitt cannot afford to move up in the draft. They are in cap hell and they need as many young good players on cheap contracts as they can get.
That's not really the point though. The point is that Jones looks like a perfect Steelers OLB. If he looks like that, and we run the exact same defense, then he looks like a perfect Browns OLB as well.
to an extent. but, the question is if he would be the "perfect" guy at #6. there may be a "more perfect" guy there. I like Jones, but there are plenty who don't.
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Pick #6 will not change ONE BIT. What we are doing in FA is eliminating "Urgent Need" from the draft. I think before this we were almost obligated out of need to go OLB at #6.
Now it goes simply to BPA...
So we don't have any more urgent needs?
If you are a BPA guy that's fine, I'm kind of one myself... but if by some fluke we get to #6 and Milliner and Jones are both still available and Jones is .001 ahead of Milliner in whatever ranking system we use.... then what we were able to do in FA will definitely matter...
yebat' Putin
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How about you quote in the order I posted those sentences?...I'm sure you knew what you were doing when you cut up those quotes...more politics from the frog
Yup, I did, and as is usually the case, you didn't. You took your shot, THEN decided to put on the  and say enough was enough. Nice try, no dice.
You want people to NOT take production and stats into account when pimping Ansah and go with the "eye-ball test" which is fine, but you historically love to use the tweezer to dig out stats when it suits your angle of the debate. How about you just leave it at "I love his upside and tools" and we move on.
I'm bringing this all the way back to an original point, which is that each and every OLB prospect has warts. The talking heads can't agree on a guy, and neither can this board. I'm Jones, Deep is Jordan, you're Ansah after being the big Moore pimp last month, and I'm sure someone else is Mingo.
It's gonna be a tough call...right up until we take an offensive player with the pick. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You did? Everybody can go back to my post and read it and see how you quoted it...and you have the gall to say you did quote me right? Wow...
and for the record, safe yourself the time to post me as a Moore-back paddler. I still like Moore, he's still my no2 DE/OLB hybrid and I had Ansah as high as him WELL BEFORE the combine, based on tape. It's all documented in here. Moore posted the same SS and 3cone times as all the other guys, so while he IS slower, he's as quick as the others and since he doesn't have to run 40yds on a straight line to get to the QB, he's still good to go
Ansah, Moore, Mingo, Jordan, Jones...that's my order of preference
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j/c... I wish there was an option to put specific poster:poster interactions on ignore.
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Jones is .001 ahead of Milliner in whatever ranking system we use.
Ok you got me there on that .001 factor...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Can I be the Damontre Moore guy?
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j/c... I wish there was an option to put specific poster:poster interactions on ignore.
Ditto
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Jarvis Jones medically cleared
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