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Not sure I'd take a deal just moving me 4 rows closer since I'm basically on the aisle and right on the concourse level so it's easier to get in and out. But I see your point. I do think they should offer us something. As I said before it's like they crapped in my cereal bowl and are telling me it's chocolate covered Cheerios. If they offered me something, even if I don't take the offer, at least that turd starts to look more like a Baby Ruth.... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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j/c
First, I am not a season ticket holder. I do not have a psl. I feel bad for the psl holders.
Here's my take on the whole psl thing. It started out as a way for the team to make extra money, and they did. The "benefit" to the person that bought the psl was, once you bought the psl, you were "allowed" to purchase the tickets. Granted, they were your seats for life, or until you sold your psl (perhaps even at a profit).
The problem arises when you look at the product. Bad teams equate to fewer people looking for season tickets.......and consequently, basically a complete devaluation of the psl.......in other words, the psl's mean basically nothing to people looking for season tickets. Prospective new season ticket holders said "I'm not paying $500 a seat (or whatever the psl cost) just for the privilege of being able to buy tickets.
The previous ownership benefited from the sale of the psl's. Current ownership hasn't benefited at all.
Psl buyers were, in essence, forced to buy the psl in order to get season tickets. To an extent, it was a risk reward situation, with the caveat that you first needed to risk. (isn't that how it always goes?). The problem is, the demand isn't there. At this point in time, tickets are easily available, at face value, sometimes less, sometimes a little more.
Throw in the economy being bad, and has been for years.........voila. Psl's are going bye bye.
It sucks for those that paid the upfront fee in order to be "allowed" to buy the season tickets........there was no reward, and not only that, there's really no chance of recouping any of the psl money.
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Legend
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I still think there is a chance. Face it, most of the best seats are under PSL agreements. If you want one of those, you'll have to buy the PSl.
In the end, if you bought a PSL 2-3 years ago, you might be hurt by the move. I guess I am going on my 8th or 9th season, so as far as I am concerned, it isn't about losing money.
Shoot, to sell them, I'd put them out there at $500 each as a starting point and be willing to go to $500 for the pair.
$500 at this point is bonus money.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I've always wanted seats in the upper decks, 40-50 yard line area. Back in the Summer of 2010, my wife and I went down to the "select-a-seat". I really wanted seats in the aforementioned area, but could not afford the PSL. - Instead I bought seats in the Dawg Pound - where you can buy season tickets without having to purchase a psl. Had the Browns not offered this option, I would have walked away without buying anything. - Maybe bought a couple single game seats later in the season.
I would be extremely angry if I had paid a couple thousand dollars for my PSL's and the Browns pulled this stunt. In my opinion, the right thing for the Browns to do is refund the PSL fee for anybody who has paid a PSL. - They should definitely do this for people who have active PSL's.
Although the Browns have already begun sending me out media packets and such, I have chosen to not renew my season tickets. I am doing this because of the way my season ticket rep conducted himself last year (intentionally misspelling my name in emails, getting condescending on the phone). I lose nothing by not renewing. Additionally, if I wanted, I could now go buy the upper deck seats I originally wanted, without paying the PSL. What sort of precedent does this set for the guy who wanted the upper deck seats bad enough to pay the psl?
The Browns have to make this right with active psl owners, and in my opinion, the steps they have taken aren't nearly enough.
Fair compensation would be to refund the psl fee for active owners. However, since we all know this isn't going to happen, what would the next step down be?
The only solutions I would be satisfied with are as follows:
- The amount paid for the original psl, or at least a percentage of this amount could be applied towards the tickets themselves.
- The amount paid for the original psl or a percentage of it could be put on a gift card that can be spent inside the Browns team shop.
Other than that, I wouldn't stop complaining until I got my money back.
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Quote:
The amount paid for the original psl or a percentage of it could be put on a gift card that can be spent inside the Browns team shop.
My dad owns four PSLs in the Club level and, last year at least, we got several hundred dollars in vouchers that could be used at the food/drink vendors as well as at the team shop. I'm not sure if this was the case for all season ticket and/or PSL owners or just those in the Club level.
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Quote:
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The amount paid for the original psl or a percentage of it could be put on a gift card that can be spent inside the Browns team shop.
My dad owns four PSLs in the Club level and, last year at least, we got several hundred dollars in vouchers that could be used at the food/drink vendors as well as at the team shop. I'm not sure if this was the case for all season ticket and/or PSL owners or just those in the Club level.
All season ticket holders got vouchers. Sounds like club level got more $, which makes sense because the seats cost more.
#gmstrong
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Just a general reply to your comments.
Those holding PSLs obviously purchased them when the prior family/owner controlled the team. The new ownership isn't under obligation to offer current holders anything other than the original intent of the PSLs. They aren't obligated to make your bargain with the previous ownership more than it was and to extend the added offer for perpetuity.
I'm just not getting all the 'I feel cheated' and 'woe is me' drama. Give it a break already.
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Quote:
Those holding PSLs obviously purchased them when the prior family/owner controlled the team
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The new ownership isn't under obligation to offer current holders anything other than the original intent of the PSLs.
Then the new ownership, or a governing body, needs to take into account how not requiring a psl in designated areas negatively affects people who already purchased a psl in those areas. People who were charged for a psl figured they could eventually sell the psl to somebody who had interest in buying a seat in that area. With the new rules, nobody is going to buy a psl. The new ownership has essentially nullified the psl owner's ability to get money back that was paid in good confidence. This confidence being that because they paid for a psl, they had seating rights that people who didn't pay for a psl didn't have.
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I'm just not getting all the 'I feel cheated' and 'woe is me' drama. Give it a break already.
Funny, I saw you don't own a psl, I don't own a psl either but it sickens me to see people get taken advantage of like this. More importantly, I regard psl holders as the the most loyal of fans. The fact that the new ownership has spit in the face of the most loyal of fans lead me to question the loyalty of the ownership.
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Legend
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jc I think PSL's are one of the biggest ripoff scams ever devised. I'm glad they're doing away with them. I'm not sure how they can do this without upsetting the current PSL owners, though....there should be some type of gratuity. Maybe a pro-rated reimbursement?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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My position has been modifed with time.
They aren't doing away with PSL's any longer. They just aren't selling them any longer.
It may actually work out the PSL's just gained in value.
(I don't really think so, but they could)
In the end, most of the best seats are under PSL ownership, and most of those folks aren't going to walk away from those seats, so if someone wants to sit there at some point, they will have to buy them from the PSL owner.
You are always going to have PSL owners on the fringe, so sure, up the benefit a bit. We get coupons for free food, get a 15% discount on items purchased in the gift shop.....maybe bump that up.....give all PSL holders 20% and 10 free stadium dogs.....1 a game. I eat a dog a game. I don't cash in on buy one, get one nachos.
Shoot.....hold a opening game keg party with some roasted pig in a pit. I am there and happy as a lark.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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But how is the new ownership responsible for promises made by the previous owner?
Any claim for reimbursement should be made against Randy Lerner and not the new ownership. It's Randy Lerner and not the new ownership that got paid for those PSL licenses.
And, as I understand it, current holders of PSLs will retain ALL the rights that they had before. They will get those same seats as long as they hold the PSL. They can even still transfer the PSL as gifts, bequeath them and sell them.
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This is exactly what I understood it to be.
If there are seats that were formerly subject to PSL ownership but were not purchased, those seats will no longer be available to be purchased under a PSL. Seats not covered by PSLs cannot be covered by a PSL in the future. All existing PSL seats are still covered by those PSL agreements.
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Quote:
But how is the new ownership responsible for promises made by the previous owner?
Any claim for reimbursement should be made against Randy Lerner and not the new ownership. It's Randy Lerner and not the new ownership that got paid for those PSL licenses.
And, as I understand it, current holders of PSLs will retain ALL the rights that they had before. They will get those same seats as long as they hold the PSL. They can even still transfer the PSL as gifts, bequeath them and sell them.
same way any new owners of any company are responsible for past owners' good/bad decisions. You take over all aspects of that company...
#gmstrong
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Actually they're not. If a previous owner commits fraud and it is discovered under the new ownership, the new ownership isn't liable to suffer the penalties for the fraud.
But, as I've said, the new ownership is honoring existing PSLs but they aren't selling new ones and as the old ones are not maintained, they will revert back to stadium seating and not personal licenses. That is, if the PSL owner does not purchase the season tickets and does not transfer the PSL to another person or entity, the seats will revert back to the team for sale.
That's about it as far as I understand it. Of course, PSLs will continue to be honored so long as they are maintained and possessed by one person or entity or another.
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All Pro
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They were bought from the Cleveland Browns, not Randy Lerner himself. Therefore, Haslam would be responsible. Not that this matters at all.
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Quote:
They were bought from the Cleveland Browns, not Randy Lerner himself. Therefore, Haslam would be responsible. Not that this matters at all.
But he's not obligated to make PSLs available once the current owner loses them. If the current PSL owner chooses not to purchase season tickets for the seat, then they will lose ownership of the PSL. Haslam isn't obligated to continue to sell PSLs to seats once those PSLs are relinquished.
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Legend
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Quote:
This is exactly what I understood it to be.
If there are seats that were formerly subject to PSL ownership but were not purchased, those seats will no longer be available to be purchased under a PSL. Seats not covered by PSLs cannot be covered by a PSL in the future. All existing PSL seats are still covered by those PSL agreements.
Furthermore, all PSL owners will be given first shot at upgrades. So, if some PSL owner simply drops the seats, all PSL owners who request better seats will have the first shot on a seniority basis.
Bottom line, if you hold a PSL, you are more than likely going to be able to offer a better seat to Joe Public seeking a couple of seats than the Browns will.
So......soon I will find out if I get the Club sections I seek or somehow get screwed. I know there were seats there. I could find them for public sale through the Browns.
If not, I am back to being ticked and convinced someone from the street walked in to them PSL free.
But, enough of that.....I am Mr. Positive....you all know that....right  I will have my clubs next season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
But how is the new ownership responsible for promises made by the previous owner?
Any claim for reimbursement should be made against Randy Lerner and not the new ownership. It's Randy Lerner and not the new ownership that got paid for those PSL licenses.
And, as I understand it, current holders of PSLs will retain ALL the rights that they had before. They will get those same seats as long as they hold the PSL. They can even still transfer the PSL as gifts, bequeath them and sell them.
same way any new owners of any company are responsible for past owners' good/bad decisions. You take over all aspects of that company...
They aren't responsible, nor is the last. I have clearly stated there is no implied value to a PSL. It is very clear languge. A fairly sharp 10th grade drop out could probably figure it out if they read the PSL agreement twice.
My only beef at the beginning was I was told I couldn't upgrade until a later date but the communication released made it sound like a guy off the streets could snatch up seats before I was allowed. That is what got me riled up.
The Browns need a better director of corporate communications. That communication was FUBAR'ed from the start.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
They were bought from the Cleveland Browns, not Randy Lerner himself. Therefore, Haslam would be responsible. Not that this matters at all.
But he's not obligated to make PSLs available once the current owner loses them. If the current PSL owner chooses not to purchase season tickets for the seat, then they will lose ownership of the PSL. Haslam isn't obligated to continue to sell PSLs to seats once those PSLs are relinquished.
Exactly....JH only has to honor them.
He is here to sell tickets. PSL's make it harder......especially when you have rolled off a decade of losing.
PSL owners are still being put first.
I am good with that. I want to make that clear since I was pretty vocal early on.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
PSL owners are still being put first.
They're being put first if you're looking to upgrade your seats or add seats (e.g. you're looking to pay more than you currently are). Otherwise, they've basically kicked PSL owners in the arse and said "you'll get nothing and like it."
As I said before, however, I understand why JimmyJoe decided to do this and, in the long run, it will be better for the organization. My only objection was their attempt to spin the message to make it sound like they were looking after current PSL owners. Bottom line: that's ridiculous. It would have been better for them to just make the decision and let it be.
In the end, it's all good by me. I'll just take the money I'll save by not paying for season tickets and upgrade my TV for a better at-home viewing experience. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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