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So yeah.....I do have an agenda. That agenda is that I think it is more than unfair to blast the current regime and act like the previous regime was so effective. And, I really don't give a rat's butt if you have a problem w/that. 
...and where in my post you freaked out about did I "act like the previous regime was so effective"? It was all about NOW, yet YOU made it an agenda battle...for whatever reasons, to cover up their shortcomings or whatever...all I know is that you did EXACTLY what you lambast people for, so I called you out on that. Taste your own medicine
No problem on disagreeing about something or someone (Heckert), but I do think it's somewhat funny how you phrased your critique....drafting QB, RB and WR high? How about we talk about the players? Oh, and I never heard before that a GM gets trashed for taking a QB high.....that's where you have to draft them when you don't have one, that's common sense. We already know what both of us think about Weeden and McCoy, we will see.
As for RB, I was upset when we drafted TRich, same with McCoy, so I'm not a complete Heckert homer, I agree there...as for WR: Gordon and Little are keepers and already have done more than Robo and Massa in their whole careers. I was skeptical about both WR picks, but at the end, they look solid now with huge uspide left...their floor is much higher today and their ceiling is still very high. How many 2nd rounders do you know who you can say that about after 1-2 years?
Back to DBs though, as it pertains to the here and now: so what is actually your opinion on not signing any DB?...regime apologetics aside
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I really don't "understand" the "plan" for the CB position...let's see what we have
1. Browns needing at least 1 CB, def need a starting outside option
2. FA class full of CBs in their prime
3. Browns having tons of money to spend
4. FA class being MUCH cheaper than anticipated
By now, there are no starting CB options left who are under 30yo....so, what's the plan? Why go into the draft with such a big need, when CB was arguably the easiest and value-cheapest position to fix in FA this offseason? Who are the "starters" left? Nnamdi? Winfield? Grimes? DeA.Hall? Bring back Sheldon?
Same goes for FS...what's the plan? Rhodes? Mikell? M.Williams? All these guys are weill over 30yo
What we don't know is what they think of those on the team already.
Did Horton look at tape and say,, hey, this guy here, if we coach him up, he can be outstanding?
And there is still the draft and cut downs. It's not over by a mile yet.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Exciting Borwns news !! Per roto: Free agent TE Kellen Davis will visit the Browns Thursday. New coach Rob Chudzinski's hunt for tight ends continues. If Davis does come aboard, it would be a best-case scenario for the fantasy prospects of intriguing ex-basketball player Jordan Cameron. Davis is a blocker at 6'7/267 that showed stones for hands during his doomed 2012 season in Chicago. I'm having Robert Royal flashes  FWIW, Bears fans are still partying for finally gotten rid of Davis
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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NRTU, Bard.
I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:
Quote:
The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.
Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...
Didn't that happen here after DA backed into the Pro Bowl? Savage heard rumors of some other team making an offer on DA so he resigned him quickly.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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I don't know too much on Davis but would be interested to hear how he compares to Alex Smith in regards to blocking....
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/21/13 09:40 AM.
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All Pro
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I don't know too much on Davis but would be interested to hear how he compares to Alex Smith in regards to blocking....
That's what I was thinking. I liked Smith as a 3rd tight end. Great blocking, Thought he was fairly crafty in the passing game, though not thrown to often.
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One of the things I watched when I went back through the All-22 film was just how good the "blocking specialist" Alex Smith really was.
He wasn't very good. Below-average is what he really is.
Last year the Browns had arguably the worst set of TE's in the league in terms of blocking prowess. Watson and Cameron are just-flat bad blockers.
Davis isn't an exciting player as a receiver but as a blocking #2 or #3 TE he'd be an immediate upgrade.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Here's a DE/OLB (age 26) I've been intrigued by. Victor Butler visiting the Saints
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Don't think Smith was a "specialist" as you just coined but if we aren't re-signing Smith, and are looking at a questionable receiving TE, I am interested to know how the two compared.
It looks like the Kellen Davis project didn't work in Chicago. They are probably pissed they traded Olsen because of Davis' possibility only to sign Bennett a couple of weeks ago. Three starting TEs in three years- that sounds like our QB situation.
Maybe the coaches are intrigued by Cameron or a trade down for someone like Eifert is being thrown around.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/21/13 09:55 AM.
Tackles are tackles.
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Quote:
NRTU, Bard.
I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:
Quote:
The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.
Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...
Well, it's not funny to me... but then, nothing is funny to me.
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We were probably going to carry 4 TE in Norv's/Chud's offense. 2 will be blockers and 2 will be better receivers.
We would have a receiving TE, and a pair of blocking TE. (assuming we sign Davis) That's 3/4 of the way there ..... and I would expect that we would add one more in the draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Heckert never valued the FS position, nor recognized that Brown was getting older. He chose to draft multiple RBs and QBs high in the draft. The guy truly was a genius.
But let's bash the new regime because they haven't filled both of those glaring holes in 3 weeks. That's the ticket.
Signed Patterson and drafted Skrine and Wade. He didn't completely ignore the position.
You say he didn't value the FS position. I say there were never any FSs of value available. He got Young on the cheap, who was a guy some though had talent but was buried on the depth chart at NO.
Not everyone gets to have an Ed Reed or even a Jarius Byrd.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
NRTU, Bard.
I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:
Quote:
The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.
Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...
Well, it's not funny to me... but then, nothing is funny to me.
never gets old.
#gmstrong
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I recall hearing something about Barnidge being under utilized as a receiver. Perhaps Cameron will be the pass catcher, Davis (if he signs) the blocker and Barnidge somewhere in the middle. That could still leave room to draft a TE, tho I would like to get a CB and FS, multiples if necessary. Perhaps another WR as well.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
NRTU, Bard.
I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:
Quote:
The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.
Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...
Well, it's not funny to me... but then, nothing is funny to me.
never gets old.
I have been using that in my sig since he said it...yall beat me to it though LOL
#brownsgoodkarma
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I'm really disappointed we didn't make a play for Ed Reed. He could have stepped in immediately and been an upgrade for the next three years considering how awful we've been at that position. Probably one of the smartest players I've ever watched. His smarts will help offset the inevitable physical decline.
Maybe we made overtures and he declined because he didn't want to play in Cleveland. That would surprise me considering he's the only AFC North player that really ever treated Cleveland with class. But I could also see him wanting to play for a winner.
I just don't remember reading anything about us having interest and if we did, about him rebuffing us.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm really disappointed we didn't make a play for Ed Reed. He could have stepped in immediately and been an upgrade for the next three years considering how awful we've been at that position. Probably one of the smartest players I've ever watched. His smarts will help offset the inevitable physical decline.
Maybe we made overtures and he declined because he didn't want to play in Cleveland. That would surprise me considering he's the only AFC North player that really ever treated Cleveland with class. But I could also see him wanting to play for a winner.
I just don't remember reading anything about us having interest and if we did, about him rebuffing us.
While I agree he could have helped us...From what I read Reed really dislikes the Browns...read a couple clippings of him bashing the Browns (mostly our QBs) pretty sure we were at the far bottom of his wish list...and like you said going to a contender played a big role in his mind
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...and where in my post you freaked out about did I "act like the previous regime was so effective"? It was all about NOW, yet YOU made it an agenda battle...for whatever reasons, to cover up their shortcomings or whatever...all I know is that you did EXACTLY what you lambast people for, so I called you out on that. Taste your own medicine
Wow, you used to be one of my favorite posters, but now you are more like mac, than anything else.
Did you like that? It was an attack. And all you have done in your last several replies to me? You don't like what I have to say, so you resort to personal attacks.
Look here, pal.........I don't give a damn what you think about me. If you wanna continue w/personal attacks designed to sway other poster's opinions of me, then take a freaking hike! Now, if you wanna talk football, then do so.
You got that, or do I need to be more direct?
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Quote:
Quote:
...and where in my post you freaked out about did I "act like the previous regime was so effective"? It was all about NOW, yet YOU made it an agenda battle...for whatever reasons, to cover up their shortcomings or whatever...all I know is that you did EXACTLY what you lambast people for, so I called you out on that. Taste your own medicine
Wow, you used to be one of my favorite posters, but now you are more like mac, than anything else.
Did you like that? It was an attack. And all you have done in your last several replies to me? You don't like what I have to say, so you resort to personal attacks.
Look here, pal.........I don't give a damn what you think about me. If you wanna continue w/personal attacks designed to sway other poster's opinions of me, then take a freaking hike! Now, if you wanna talk football, then do so.
You got that, or do I need to be more direct?
Be more direct!!
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....but now you are more like mac, than anything else.
Ouch! This place is getting brutal. No one deserves that.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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LOL starting to look like the old Browns chat forum 
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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LOL starting to look like the old Browns chat forum
Took all of what...two weeks?
Versie, damnit, pay attention: Quote:
Actually, I have mellowed somewhat. I'll be good. -Versatiledog
That was two weeks ago. Now take some damned blood-pressure medication...or a martini...and snap out of it. You trying to set a record for a veteran poster to get re-banned??
Dj, play nice.  The Ref's haven't hit the ban button yet, but for cripes sakes, you've already been put in timeout once this year. Why try for two?
If I can mellow out, you two can as well. Hell, the draft isn't even here yet. Save your energies for that, hehe.
Now, back to football...
Tim Couch sucks.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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LOL starting to look like the old Browns chat forum
I wonder why
and Vers, personal attacks? My posts are there for everyone to read and everone can see what YOU elect to respond to and what you keep evading. I did ask you TWICE about what you actually think about our DB situation (you know, that was what my 1st post was actually about), I answered to the QB, RB and WR situation you brought into the discussion, yet you never talked football and responded to other stuff, that, funny enough, YOU started talking about, that was all your choice, so please stop being a bully with a glass jaw. If your sensitive getting hit, don't dish out. If you dish out, better be prepared to catch some too. It's like in life, easy rule isn't it? Don't do to others, what you don't want other's to do to you. That's ethics 101, play by it instead of going all moral on everyone in every post you disagree with...play by your own rules for once, that's my point about the "how" of your argumentation
Back to the "what", the Browns:
I think our DB situation is worse off than at season's end and this FA was a perfect storm of opportunities (cap space, cheap, good, in their prime FAs) to get it fixed without going into the draft with as big of a need there, that's why I question this FO for their "plan" regarding the DB situation
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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...I think our DB situation is worse off than at season's end
No question that it is, losing Sheldon, Dimitri, and it is young. However, I do believe the FO has a plan in place, just that they haven't put it into motion as yet. We will not go into next season with the lineup as it currently stands....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
...I think our DB situation is worse off than at season's end
No question that it is, losing Sheldon, Dimitri, and it is young. However, I do believe the FO has a plan in place, just that they haven't put it into motion as yet. We will not go into next season with the lineup as it currently stands....
Sure, we will either draft some DBs high that can play right away or sign some stop gap 30+yo FA starter, because that's all what's left. What we can't do anymore though is sign a starting CB in their prime for the mid/long term and that's what I would have liked to see and thus question the "plan". I'm not saying they're clueless, they sure have a plan in place for DB, but I'm not sure it's the smartest in terms of value.
If you want an attacking style of front 7, you absolutely NEED good coverage DBs and right now we only have one there in Haden. Ward is a great SS, but he's AVG in coverage, though he has improved a lot there. We still have neither instincts or athleticism at FS, that's a position Heckert undervalued and should have done a better job of stop gapping. We currently have no no2 CB and our depth guys should never play on the outside, as Skrine has shown that his upside is that of a decent slot CB, but not that of a no2/slot tweener (like Munnerlyn or Patterson pre-contract). That's why I wanted us to be player's for BOTH the no2 and slot/tweener positions, since you always have to account for injuries on a position 5 deep and with 3 starters in today's NFL...so, that would have pushed Skrine and Wade down to 4th and 5th CB. That would have been good depth and it was easily possible accomplishing that considering our cap and buyer's market. That's why I'm so disappointed that we filled neither with in their prime players....by default that means we either go stop gap vet or rooks. To me this looks like we backed ourselves unnecessarily into a corner regarding the CB position
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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In some ways I agree. The thing is we don't know what Horton thinks of the DB group. Maybe he thinks a guy like Skrine or Badamosi(sp) are going to rise.
The one thing to remember about top corners...they are like top QB's. The guys that are free aren't the really good ones. The really good ones never end up free. They get signed or tagged.
The difference between the really good ones and the good ones isn't much, until it plays out on the field. Then you see what that "isn't much" really means.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I understand what you mean and that's usually true for most FA classes, but this year's was much different, thus the price for those CBs was lower too. By all accounts guys like K.Lewis or C.Houston had very good season's as no2 starting CBs and they're 26 and 28yo respectively, Houston has started over 80 games in the NFL. They both hit FA and could have been signed...maybe we tried, but we never heard anything about us being involved
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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so please stop being a bully with a glass jaw. If your sensitive getting hit, don't dish out. If you dish out, better be prepared to catch some too
Nah, that is not a personal attack. It's pure football.
The DBs? I haven't talked about them? Really?
Here is a copy of a post on made on March 15th, after people were complaining about the signings of Kruger and Bryant. In fact, I talked about this on a couple of posts, you know, BEFORE everyone else started focusing on the secondary. Here you go:
Quote:
Here:
If you wanna complain, perhaps you should switch your argument to this. You really expose your secondary when you attack so much. You better have corners who can cover and a FS who can roam the field. Yes, quick pressure will hide some problems in the secondary. However, there are going to be plenty of times the pressure won't get there. Our secondary is a huge weakness.
Haden is pretty good, but overrated by most. There are WRs who run away from him when they run crossing routes. Yes, those plays take time to develop, but he gives up those plays. I am not saying he is weak, but he is not quite as great as almost everyone says he is.
Our other corner is a huge question mark? It better not be Skrine or we are in trouble. We need a corner. BAD!
Ward is good in the run game. He will probably blitz a lot under Horton. He will make big plays. But, he is terrible in pass coverage. Some of the worst hips I have ever seen. Doesn't read well. Gets lost in space.
FS? We don't have one and this is the most glaring need on our team. Mike Adams is good enough for Denver, but not us. I am not saying he is great, but he is better than what we currently have. All I know is that we really need an upgrade here. I wanted Golston from SF so bad. Detroit just got Houston's FS. I hope we address this position.
Is that good enough for you?
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 03/22/13 07:04 AM.
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Cool, so we actually agree on the DB situation...so what were those last posts all about?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Let's just drop it. I don't mind arguing. I think it is kinda funny. I think some posters enjoy seeing the arguments, but it appears that most don't like all the fighting. Let's just try and talk football and be boring while doing it. 
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Quote:
Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland
TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..
http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?
feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo[/url]
OH. MY. GOD.
Tackles are tackles.
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On the radio, it is being reported that the workout happened while Dawson had his final interview with Cleveland reporters yesterday. I can't believe this....this has to be a joke. If any of this is true, this deserves it's own thread.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/22/13 07:38 AM.
Tackles are tackles.
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Quote:
Quote:
Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland
TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..
http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo
Hey they can try anyone out. And should. you can't find the gems unless you look at them.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It doesnt hurt anything to work out someone. We NEED help, why not think outside the box and let guys give it a go? Somewhere there is a diamond in the rough.
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Saw the YouTube video, and it looked cool. This is just weird to me, but I gather other teams have tried him out as well.
Tackles are tackles.
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Saw the YouTube video, and it looked cool. This is just weird to me, but I gather other teams have tried him out as well.
see he is left foot?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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