Free Agency IV - DawgTalkers.net

What is the infatuation with the draft picks?

Emmanuel Sanders is a pretty big contributor to the Steelers (especially now that Wallace is gone) and can play in the NFL for sure.

A draft pick is a wildcard.

Steelers may or may NOT get a compensatory pick for Wallace. And it wouldn't have anything to do with Wallace. The way compensatory picks are awarded has to do with Number of Free Agents lost vs. Number of Free Agents signed. They also have a way of measuring the "type" or quality of free agents lost.. so that's the only way Wallace actually factors into that equation...

yes, it's quantity of non-minimum-salaried free agents lost minus non-minimum-salaried free agents signed. You peel off the lost players from the list using signed players of 1) players lost with similar salary to players gained, 2) players lost with lower salary than players gained, 3) players lost with higher salary than players gained. Maximum of 4 picks per team.

Seeing as how Pittsburgh doesn't have cap room to sign players above the minimum, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with a 3rd and a 5th for Wallace (>$12 MM per) and Lewis ($5.25 MM per) next year.

Baltimore can't sign anybody. Might get two 4ths for Ellerbe ($7.5 MM per) and Kruger ($8 MM per) and a 5th for Williams ($5.7 MM per). Depending on what Reed signs for with Houston, they could get another 5th or 6th.

They are likely getting 4 comp picks this year as well... I think it's a 4th (Grubbs), a 5th (Jarrett Johnson), a 6th (Cory Redding) and another 6th or 7th (Tom Zbikiowski). Those four picks will make it easier to fill their roster without dipping into free agency.

Ed Reed does NOT sign w Texans

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Jake Long leaving St.Louis without a deal

That's surprising, good info. From everything I had heard, I thought he was going to sign with them now.

Injury issues have to be great...Left Tackles usually don't become available in FA unless there were Cancer issues. I was curious what was going to happen but to not be signed by now??? Makes me think he still has injuries. Did he have short Arms...does he have Shoulder problems??? usually Shoulder problems are the kiss of death for Left Tackles.

Very surprised considering Bears for Cutler n others out there.[/colors]

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2013/03/nfl_free_agency_2013_new_engla_7.html
By Nick Underhill, MassLive.com

NFL free agency 2013: New England Patriots re-sign Kyle Arrington

Chiefs sign Sean Smith
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/905649...back-sean-smith
ESPN.com news services

There's a separate thread for signings....

Giants looking at Dan Connor

Hey, he didn't sign w Pittsburgh...

My mistake, sorry to botch things up

Some guys that are still available that would fill some of our holes (I am excluding all the expensive guys, i.e. Asomonga, Woodson, Reed, Freeney, etc):

Cornerback
Antoine Cason
Brent Grimes
Aqib Talib
Tracy Porter
Jacob Lacey
Captain Munnerlyn
Mike Jenkins

Safety
Kerry Rhodes (not young, but has a connection with Horton)

Tight End
Fred Davis
Michael Hoomanawanui
Tom Crabtree
Brandon Myers
Travis Beckum

I'm really feeling us signing Fred Davis.

GUT feeling...

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My mistake, sorry to botch things up

From now on pay attention.

Post about signings go in the signings thread.
Posts about cuts go in the cuts thread.
Posts about Qb's can go anywhere

But seriously, you are not the 1st person to post off topic and this one was even related so don't worry about it.

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Some guys that are still available that would fill some of our holes (I am excluding all the expensive guys, i.e. Asomonga, Woodson, Reed, Freeney, etc):

Sorry to go back to fifth grade here, but something about this sentence is just sooooooooo wrong.....

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Post about signings go in the signings thread.
Posts about cuts go in the cuts thread

And here's a TRADE. Where's that go?

Buccs trade WR A.Benn to the Eagles

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Some guys that are still available that would fill some of our holes (I am excluding all the expensive guys, i.e. Asomonga, Woodson, Reed, Freeney, etc):

Sorry to go back to fifth grade here, but something about this sentence is just sooooooooo wrong.....

smh in disgust

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Post about signings go in the signings thread.
Posts about cuts go in the cuts thread

And here's a TRADE. Where's that go?

Buccs trade WR A.Benn to the Eagles

In the trades thread....geeesh

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Post about signings go in the signings thread.
Posts about cuts go in the cuts thread

And here's a TRADE. Where's that go?

Buccs trade WR A.Benn to the Eagles

In the trades thread....geeesh

cue the purple color

I want Rhodes the most on that list. Then Myers. Then two of the corners- Munnerlyn and Talib/Grimes.

If the price was right I'd grab a powerhouse like Jake Long ina heartbeat and shove him on the inside at Guard one less worry we have for the interior.The guy should beast out at Guard

Vikings | Greg Jennings agrees
Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:17:39 -0700

The Minnesota Vikings agreed to an undisclosed five-year deal with free-agent WR Greg Jennings (Packers).

FANTASY TIP: Jennings missed half of last year with a groin injury and saw his production drop thanks to a bevy of receiving options around him in Green Bay. He'll be 30 years old shortly after the 2013 season kicks off, but he'll be the unquestioned No. 1 wideout in Minnesota. Declining production due to age and inconsistent quarterback play in Minny make Jennings more of a No. 2 fantasy WR.

Vikings | Greg Jennings financials
Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:23:55 -0700

Updating a previous report, Minnesota Vikings WR Greg Jennings received a five-year deal with max value of $47.5 million, with $18 million guaranteed.

link

Bummer. I had the slightest hope we might go at him.

He was a Pro Bowl Left Tackle...some saying equal to Joe T...especially them who wanted AP in the draft

Still a very good Left Tackle n now 2 years struggling w/injuries and nobody wants a commodity that never hit the FA market before??? Sort of reminds me of Brees with the shoulder surgery. All afraid to spend big time $$$ on somebody who has struggled w/injuries last two seasons.

Also if we can assume they all do Physicals before going to contract as in Long w/Rams being there a while n coming away with no contract in hand. Is he got career threatening medical problems??? Just cannot imagine a YOUNG Left Tackle former overall #1 pick who made Pro-Bowl what his first 3 or 4 seasons...become available after his first contract is over n not being like the first guy signed. Has to be MEDICAL.

CB run over? now left overs have to lower their expectations cause they have become 2nd tier guys??? Again give me TALIB please - I think our Locker room is strong enough to absorb him...n possibly the NO ATTENTION could be a Humbling Experience for him! But the kid has mad skills.

Not much else...a 2 year contract for the FS from Zona like a Mangini move bringing veteran for each tier to help transition??? Groves for LB...Rhodes for DBs???
TE n others I think we are done w/FA until after the draft.

JMHO

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If the price was right I'd grab a powerhouse like Jake Long ina heartbeat and shove him on the inside at Guard one less worry we have for the interior.The guy should beast out at Guard

Has he ever played guard? Is there any reason to think he'd be good? Would he want to switch?

Serious questions, not trying to a jerk.

There's enough complaining on here about moving current guys to other positions without signing a FA with the intent of moving him to a new position.

I think Long could play guard but I don't think that he would be willing. Fact of life is that LT's get paid way more than OG's so the only way he would even consider it is if he couldn't find any team that wants him as a LT.

I wonder what the Lions are planning. Their left tackle just retired. It would be great for them to have to address that position in the draft...

Just speculation...?

KFFL

Browns | Kerry Rhodes could be targeted

The Cleveland Browns could target free-agent S Kerry Rhodes (Cardinals) because he played for defensive coordinator Ray Horton with the Arizona Cardinals the past two seasons.

2013-03-15 21:46:44 | Source: Akron Beacon Journal - Nate Ulrich

I see no way that Long would move inside .... or that he would sign a deal that would pay him as a Guard. Plus, with his shoulder, back, knee, bicep, and other injuries, how much would you pay him?

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Just speculation...?

KFFL

Browns | Kerry Rhodes could be targeted

The Cleveland Browns could target free-agent S Kerry Rhodes (Cardinals) because he played for defensive coordinator Ray Horton with the Arizona Cardinals the past two seasons.

2013-03-15 21:46:44 | Source: Akron Beacon Journal - Nate Ulrich

I hope it isn't just speculation. I'd like for Rhodes to be in a Brown's uniform. Him and Ward would make a great safety combo IMO.

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I see no way that Long would move inside .... or that he would sign a deal that would pay him as a Guard. Plus, with his shoulder, back, knee, bicep, and other injuries, how much would you pay him?

I would not pay him much. I think we will snag up a solid starting guard in the draft and it will be at a much cheaper price than Long will demand. Don't get me wrong, I think Long is a great tackle, but I don't think we should open the wallets as wide as he wants for the needs that we have on our offensive line.

I would like Rhodes or Huff at S.

Rhodes is getting older ..... but he had a strong year last year. I would love to see him here, as a mentor, and as a player.

Could Schwartz slide over to right guard with Long at right tackle?

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Just speculation...?

KFFL

Browns | Kerry Rhodes could be targeted

The Cleveland Browns could target free-agent S Kerry Rhodes (Cardinals) because he played for defensive coordinator Ray Horton with the Arizona Cardinals the past two seasons.

2013-03-15 21:46:44 | Source: Akron Beacon Journal - Nate Ulrich

I don't know if this has legs or if it's just because he played for Horton? Guess we'll see.

My guess is that it is just speculation, because he played for Horton and it is a position of need. Same reaction a lot of us here had when he was released.

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I wonder what the Lions are planning. Their left tackle just retired. It would be great for them to have to address that position in the draft...

Wow, Backus retired? They did draft Reiff in the first round last year and he was Backus' backup. They also lost their RT Cherilus in free agency. Could draft another OT in the first and have the two guys fall into whatever spot they fit best. Still have no DEs on the roster. All but precludes them from drafting a corner in the first.

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Could Schwartz slide over to right guard with Long at right tackle?

Why would you want that. Schwartz did a great job last year as a Rookie,, he's only going to get better. Why pay LT money to a guy to play RT when you have a RT in place. If you don't like your RG, replace him with another guard...

And I still don't think the Oline is weak. We have other issues to tend to.

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Could Schwartz slide over to right guard with Long at right tackle?

That would be like when we signed Kruger. We sign Long and some posters here would be wondering if it was Thomas or Schwartz being traded for Mallet.

Because if Long is a better RT than Schwartz, and Schwartz is a better RG than whoever we have pencilled in at that spot (Greco, I'm assuming), then you can upgrade two positions with one player acquisition. Long, when healthy, is a great LT, and I seem to recall Schwartz being touted as being able to play most positions along the line competently.

I don't know if Long would have the ability to make the transition to the other side. That's why I asked.

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Could Schwartz slide over to right guard with Long at right tackle?

Why would you want that. Schwartz did a great job last year as a Rookie,, he's only going to get better. Why pay LT money to a guy to play RT when you have a RT in place. If you don't like your RG, replace him with another guard...

And I still don't think the Oline is weak. We have other issues to tend to.

Ditto. I see no reason to move Schwartz anywhere. He is an exceptional RT. Why mess with success?

I also think that some people are going to be disappointed from here out ...... because I don't see us signing any more huge free agents ... unless we can somehow convince Dumervil to sign here ......

Banner has already said that we were only going to pursue a couple of choice free agents, and we signed 2 who were considered to be in the top 25 or so on the market this year. That's a strong job. We added a couple of guys who can plug holes, but who probably won't be starters ..... and we might look for a value signing at a key position.

I remember reading about how there are so many mistales made in free agency, and how teams waste their money signing players left and right ...... yet then read others opine that the Chefs and Phins have done such a great job passing out contracts like they were dealing cards.

I like what we've done so far, and I don't expect us to do a whole lot more. Maybe we sign Fred Davis if the deal is right. Maybe we sign Rhodes if the contract is right. Maybe we pass on one, or both, if the numbers are wrong.

One thing I don't see is us spending a ton of money, as free agency would require, on a Guard. Maybe we look in the 4th/5th rounds for another Guard, and put him in competition with Lauvao, Greco, Pinkston, and Miller. We cannot, and should not, spend big dollars everywhere.

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Just speculation...?

KFFL

Browns | Kerry Rhodes could be targeted

The Cleveland Browns could target free-agent S Kerry Rhodes (Cardinals) because he played for defensive coordinator Ray Horton with the Arizona Cardinals the past two seasons.

2013-03-15 21:46:44 | Source: Akron Beacon Journal - Nate Ulrich

Michael Huff and Kerry Rhodes are both currently 30 years old, with Rhodes turning 31 before the season starts. If we sign either one they would be a stop gap, which Banner said is something we won't do.

If we ended FA by signing Meyers (TE), Brent Grimes (CB), and Kerry Rhodes (FS) we could go into the draft and do whatever the heck we wanted...

I doubt we'd get Grimes, But Meyers and Rhodes are just sitting there it seems, and would fill huge holes on this team...

I'd still like a FA CB also...

Or just come out and say we're done, so I can stop checking up on it...

I don't see a problem with a stop gap if that stop gap leads to a better place.

We still can't fill every hole through the draft this year. Getting a guy who can fill a hole and let other guys develop is still useful.

I don't expect Banner to sign a guy 30 or above to a huge contract. However, that doesn't mean that we can't sign an older player to fill a deep hole.

I agree. Just reminding as to what Banner said.

I don't remember him saying that we wouldn't sign anyone over 30 .... just that they plan on building through the draft and with select free agents in the prime of their careers.

I could have missed it though.

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I don't see a problem with a stop gap if that stop gap leads to a better place.

We still can't fill every hole through the draft this year. Getting a guy who can fill a hole and let other guys develop is still useful.

I don't expect Banner to sign a guy 30 or above to a huge contract. However, that doesn't mean that we can't sign an older player to fill a deep hole.

Well I think we'd all prefer someone that could be here for 10 years but in todays NFL, that almost seems impossible to do in all positions.

so, if we gotta pick up a 2 or 3 years stopgap,, I'm good with it.

Unless this team signs Fred Davis or Brandon Myers, I'm pretty confident in saying that the Browns had one of the worst FA signing periods of any team in the NFL. And I'm not just saying this as a Chargers fan and trying to be a negative nancy, as the BrownsChat members can vouch for me when I say that my posts were mostly positive on that board.

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First of all, Kruger is a terrible signing when juxtaposed to Avril's signing. Avril got less money, despite having more production, being younger, and being a 3-down player. Avril may not be good at stopping the run or playing coverage, but Kruger is even worse considering he was only a pass-rush specialist in Baltimore and didn't even start. Seriously, if Kruger starts, the Browns' hypothetical rush-defense is takes a major hit because the Ravens knew he couldn't seal the edge.

Not to mention that big-time defensive FA signings usually bust, especially ones that have a very small body of work like Kruger. Actually, I this is why I never would have signed a pass rusher via FA in the first place and spent the money elsewhere. The Browns possess a very high draft slot in a draft that's heavy on high-potential pass rushers (and not much else besides tackles and guards), they really should have just drafted a pass rusher IMO...

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Second of all, the Bryant signing was okay for a good team who had most of its positions on defense addressed, but not okay for a team who already has 4 decent-good 3-4 defensive linemen in Taylor, Rubin, Winn, and Hughes (yes, I know he didn't show much last year, but he's a 3rd round pick and 3rd round picks need to play). Those 4 guys are enough for a 3-4 defense, especially one that lacks a decent CB2, FS — and on offense — lacks a TE, maybe a G, and preferably an outside WR (Little is better from the slot).

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This leads me to my third point, the Browns didn't sign a CB in the cheapest market for CBs in YEARS. Quality players like Cox, Lewis, and Talib were supposed to get $7-8 million and inconsistent players like Cason were supposed to $4 million. Well instead that first tier of guys got $5 million and Cason got $2 million. Seriously, how does a team that lacks a CB2 not sign a CB when they're $2-3 million under-value??? Why would they pigeonhole themselves to drafting Dee Milliner?

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Now I know the Browns still have a ton of cap money sitting there, so as I wrote before, maybe they're planning on signing Davis or Myers. Those would be good pickups considering Chud has worked with good TEs in the past (Antonio Gates and Greg Olsen). I also think Asomugha would be a good pickup considering all he can do now is play press-man coverage and Horton plays a crapload of that.

But if the Browns don't pick any of these guys up, this is going to be one of the worst FA periods I've ever seen. Kruger and Bryant were already ill-advised pickups and not signing one of aforementioned guys would be stupid considering the Browns still have cap money (that they need to spend 88% of no matter what, per the new CBA agreement) and the only other good guys left aren't at positions of need for the Browns.

UGH, I can see why being a fan of this team would be frustrating. The Browns had the second-most cap space in the league and completely blew it.

A Norv Turner fan.

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Unless this team signs Fred Davis or Brandon Myers, I'm pretty confident in saying that the Browns had one of the worst FA signing periods of any team in the NFL. And I'm not just saying this as a Chargers fan and trying to be a negative nancy, as the BrownsChat members can vouch for me when I say that my posts were mostly positive on that board.

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First of all, Kruger is a terrible signing when juxtaposed to Avril's signing. Avril got less money, despite having more production, being younger, and being a 3-down player. Avril may not be good at stopping the run or playing coverage, but Kruger is even worse considering he was only a pass-rush specialist in Baltimore and didn't even start. Seriously, if Kruger starts, the Browns' hypothetical rush-defense is takes a major hit because the Ravens knew he couldn't seal the edge.

Not to mention that big-time defensive FA signings usually bust, especially ones that have a very small body of work like Kruger. Actually, I this is why I never would have signed a pass rusher via FA in the first place and spend the money elsewhere. The Browns possess a very high draft slot in a draft that's heavy on high-potential pass rushers (and not much else besides tackles and guards), they really should have just drafted a pass rusher IMO...

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Second of all, the Bryant signing was okay for a good team who had most of its positions on defense addressed, but not okay for a team who already has 4 decent-good 3-4 defensive linemen in Taylor, Rubin, Winn, and Hughes (yes, I know he didn't show much last year, but he's a 3rd round pick and 3rd round picks need to play). Those 4 guys are enough for a 3-4 defense, especially one that lacks a decent CB2, FS — and on offense — lacks a TE, maybe a G, and preferably an outside WR (Little is better from the slot).

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This leads me to my third point, the Browns didn't sign a CB in the cheapest market for CBs in YEARS. Quality players like Cox, Lewis, and Talib were supposed to get $7-8 million and inconsistent players like Cason were supposed to $4 million. Well instead that first tier of guys got $5 million and those Cason got $2 million. Seriously, how does a team that lacks a CB2 not sign a CB when they're $2-3 million under-value??? Why would they pigeonhole themselves to drafting Dee Milliner?

...

Now I know the Browns still have a ton of cap money sitting there, so as I wrote before, maybe they're planning on signing Davis or Myers. Those would be good pickups considering Chud has worked with good TEs in the past (Antonio Gates and Greg Olsen). I also think Asomugha would be a good pickup considering all he can do now is play press-man coverage and Horton plays a crapload of that.

But if the Browns don't pick any of these guys up, this is going to be one of the worst FA periods I've ever seen. Kruger and Bryant were already ill-advised pickups and not signing one of aforementioned guys would be stupid considering the Browns still have cap money (that they need to spend 88% of no matter what, per the new CBA agreement) and the only other good guys left aren't at positions of need for the Browns.

UGH, I can see why being a fan of this team would be frustrating. The Browns had the second-most cap space in the league and completely blew it.

Good post Blue...I too have been left scratching my head in aspects of the Browns FA period...especially with all the starting caliber CBs signing very cheaply while we only have Haden and Skrine (Skrine at best looks to be a dime back) with the cheapest corner/secondary market I've seen in years and years why not pick up 2 corners even a FS ontop of that...just doesn't make sense to me...FS Usama Young is erratic and is constantly out of position yet we have to address that spot in addition...We still have a lot or cap...major holes at CB #2 and CB #3, FS, starting TE, another starting caliber WR, a starting G, starting FB...and the FA market is dwindling down everyday that passes...while some holes will be filled in the draft...there is still way too many holes void of talent on this team....hopefully we will make some deals here very shortly...as really it seems to me the Browns are running out of time in FA...

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Emmanuel Sanders, the Pittsburgh Steelers' restricted free-agent wide receiver, has yet to receive an offer sheet from the New England Patriots after his visit Friday, according to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

That doesn't mean Sanders is definitely staying with the Steelers this season. Schefter pointed out that the Patriots are still deciding whether to extend an offer sheet to Sanders, who is expected to replace Mike Wallace for Pittsburgh this season.

While the Patriots could put together an offer that the cap-strapped Steelers couldn't match, New England has problems of its own with a shortage of draft picks. If the Patriots gave up a third-round pick for Sanders, which would be the compensation given to Pittsburgh, New England would be left with four picks in next month's draft and just two in the first six rounds. The Patriots used those other picks in trades for cornerback Aqib Talib (fourth round), defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth (fifth round), and wide receiver Chad Johnson (sixth round).

In other news, the Steelers reached an agreement with tight end Matt Spaeth, according to ESPNChicago. Spaeth, 29, spent his first four seasons in the NFL with the Steelers before playing for the Bears the past two seasons.

He provides depth for the Steelers, who are uncertain when tight end Heath Miller will come back from ACL surgery late in the season. In four seasons with Pittsburgh, Spaeth had 36 catches for 275 yards and five touchdowns. As those numbers indicate, he's more of a blocking tight end. He visited the Bengals on Friday before reaching a deal with Pittsburgh.

Link

Anyone else think that if this signing happens the Patriots will look to trade Mallett? They would only hŸve four picks in the entire draft. A third and a conditional pick in 2014 seems like a good deal for both sides. We could then trade down from pick six and recoup some draft picks.

Does this make too much sense or am I missing something?

Perhaps, but if the Pats trade Mallett, then they would have to replace him, and would probably have to use a draft pick to do so.l

Would that put them ahead, or not?

Or they can sign someone. There are some guys that could make pretty good backups out there.

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Emmanuel Sanders, the Pittsburgh Steelers' restricted free-agent wide receiver, has yet to receive an offer sheet from the New England Patriots after his visit Friday, according to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

That doesn't mean Sanders is definitely staying with the Steelers this season. Schefter pointed out that the Patriots are still deciding whether to extend an offer sheet to Sanders, who is expected to replace Mike Wallace for Pittsburgh this season.

While the Patriots could put together an offer that the cap-strapped Steelers couldn't match, New England has problems of its own with a shortage of draft picks. If the Patriots gave up a third-round pick for Sanders, which would be the compensation given to Pittsburgh, New England would be left with four picks in next month's draft and just two in the first six rounds. The Patriots used those other picks in trades for cornerback Aqib Talib (fourth round), defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth (fifth round), and wide receiver Chad Johnson (sixth round).

In other news, the Steelers reached an agreement with tight end Matt Spaeth, according to ESPNChicago. Spaeth, 29, spent his first four seasons in the NFL with the Steelers before playing for the Bears the past two seasons.

He provides depth for the Steelers, who are uncertain when tight end Heath Miller will come back from ACL surgery late in the season. In four seasons with Pittsburgh, Spaeth had 36 catches for 275 yards and five touchdowns. As those numbers indicate, he's more of a blocking tight end. He visited the Bengals on Friday before reaching a deal with Pittsburgh.

Link

Anyone else think that if this signing happens the Patriots will look to trade Mallett? They would only have four picks in the entire draft. A third and a conditional pick in 2014 seems like a good deal for both sides. We could then trade down from pick six and recoup some draft picks.

Does this make too much sense or am I missing something?

Injuries happen and Tom Brady is getting old. It's good to have a quality backup and while there have been some QBs in recent memory that have played at a very high level into their late 30s or even early 40s (Favre), but many regress well before that. In my estimation Mallett is worth a lot more to the Patriots than a 3rd rounder plus a throw in pick.

Really the only way he isn't worth that much to them is if he hasn't impressed, in which case you wouldn't want to trade for him, but not too many people outside the Pats organization have real insight into that. It's kind of a catch-22.

One person who does have insight in the Patriots organization -- Michael Lombardi.

It has been said that Lombardi was helping game plan for Belichick last year and if we wouldn't have hired him he would have a spot in the Patriots front office right now.

Also, a conditional draft pick is not necessarily a throw-in. Maybe make so that if Mallett starts all 16 games they get another third. If he starts all 16 and makes the Pro Bowl they get a second.

Who is still out there?

I know that Kolb is still available, but he doesn't impress me at all. I doubt that he excites the Patriots either.

Jason Campbell? I don't look at him as an exciting option either.

Ryan Fitzpatrick?

Brady Quinn?

There is some pretty unimpressive "talent" left on the sidelines. Some of them may be sidelined for good at this point.

I think that Belichick would have made an attempt to sign someone while he could have his pick of players if he had any intention of trading Malett.

Plus, Alex Smith, a somewhat expensive option at QB, cost the Chefs a 2nd and a conditional draft pick. He costs $8 million per year, plus guarantees. I didn't look up his deal, but it seems like a pretty large amount for a fairly limited QB.

Mallett would bring a much lower price tag. The Pats could not sign his replacement for the same money they are paying him. There would be a premium for that. Plus, he is younger. I would guess that the Pats start at a 2nd plus a future 2nd, and work up from there ... if not more.

To me that would be a dangerous proposition.

I hope and pray we don't waste a drft pick on Ryan Mallet ... PLEASE NOOOOOOOO ...

Mallett was a first round talent that fell due to character issues. He has now been with the Patriots for two years and has hopefully learned some good study habits from Belichick and Brady.

Obviously you wouldn't want to give up too much, but a pick traded for Mallett is not a wasted pick. Mallett would give Weeden legit competition.

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Mallett was a first round talent that fell due to character issues. He has now been with the Patriots for two years and has hopefully learned some good study habits from Belichick and Brady.

Obviously you wouldn't want to give up too much, but a pick traded for Mallett is not a wasted pick. Mallett would give Weeden legit competition.

Sorry but we have our opinions, I watched Mallet more than once in college but if you just watch the Ohio State Game (Sugar Bowl) you can clearly see he has happy feet, and with any pressure he falls apart, I know he has studied behind Brady but he hasn't had time on the field to overcome that part of his game, and with happy feet comes alot of picks... JMHO

Brandon Myers visiting Giants

Hellooo.....???

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I hope and pray we don't waste a drft pick on Ryan Mallet ... PLEASE NOOOOOOOO ...

Just to clarify I never said that I wanted to trade for him. It was mostly just a general point that I've made in the past that in trade discussions it's easy to overvalue your own team's players and undervalue other teams' players.

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Brandon Myers visiting Giants

Hellooo.....???

i agree. why have we not set up a visit with him.. imo he is a player better than davis. less injury concern too.

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Brandon Myers visiting Giants

Hellooo.....???

i agree. why have we not set up a visit with him.. imo he is a player better than davis. less injury concern too.

I still had hope for getting Myers, but that hope is beginning to fade ...

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Brandon Myers visiting Giants

Hellooo.....???

i agree. why have we not set up a visit with him.. imo he is a player better than davis. less injury concern too.

I still had hope for getting Myers, but that hope is beginning to fade ...

Myers is a good security net, but he can't stretch the field or accumulate YAC. He just has really good stats because Carson Palmer can't throw a ball past the 10 yard mark.

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A Norv Turner fan.

Oh, the irony...

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It has been said that Lombardi was helping game plan for Belichick last year and if we wouldn't have hired him he would have a spot in the Patriots front office right now.

That's a good one. I needed that laugh.

Belichek had five years to offer him a job and never did. After Lombardi left the Raiders he never smelled an opportunity to work in New England. They hired some Reece guy a few years back...How about when Scott Pioli left for KC? Belichek could have easily given him a job if he wanted him but didn't.

Hmmmmm.

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Unless this team signs Fred Davis or Brandon Myers, I'm pretty confident in saying that the Browns had one of the worst FA signing periods of any team in the NFL. And I'm not just saying this as a Chargers fan and trying to be a negative nancy, as the BrownsChat members can vouch for me when I say that my posts were mostly positive on that board.

...

First of all, Kruger is a terrible signing when juxtaposed to Avril's signing. Avril got less money, despite having more production, being younger, and being a 3-down player. Avril may not be good at stopping the run or playing coverage, but Kruger is even worse considering he was only a pass-rush specialist in Baltimore and didn't even start. Seriously, if Kruger starts, the Browns' hypothetical rush-defense is takes a major hit because the Ravens knew he couldn't seal the edge.

Not to mention that big-time defensive FA signings usually bust, especially ones that have a very small body of work like Kruger. Actually, I this is why I never would have signed a pass rusher via FA in the first place and spent the money elsewhere. The Browns possess a very high draft slot in a draft that's heavy on high-potential pass rushers (and not much else besides tackles and guards), they really should have just drafted a pass rusher IMO...

...

Second of all, the Bryant signing was okay for a good team who had most of its positions on defense addressed, but not okay for a team who already has 4 decent-good 3-4 defensive linemen in Taylor, Rubin, Winn, and Hughes (yes, I know he didn't show much last year, but he's a 3rd round pick and 3rd round picks need to play). Those 4 guys are enough for a 3-4 defense, especially one that lacks a decent CB2, FS — and on offense — lacks a TE, maybe a G, and preferably an outside WR (Little is better from the slot).

...

This leads me to my third point, the Browns didn't sign a CB in the cheapest market for CBs in YEARS. Quality players like Cox, Lewis, and Talib were supposed to get $7-8 million and inconsistent players like Cason were supposed to $4 million. Well instead that first tier of guys got $5 million and Cason got $2 million. Seriously, how does a team that lacks a CB2 not sign a CB when they're $2-3 million under-value??? Why would they pigeonhole themselves to drafting Dee Milliner?

...

Now I know the Browns still have a ton of cap money sitting there, so as I wrote before, maybe they're planning on signing Davis or Myers. Those would be good pickups considering Chud has worked with good TEs in the past (Antonio Gates and Greg Olsen). I also think Asomugha would be a good pickup considering all he can do now is play press-man coverage and Horton plays a crapload of that.

But if the Browns don't pick any of these guys up, this is going to be one of the worst FA periods I've ever seen. Kruger and Bryant were already ill-advised pickups and not signing one of aforementioned guys would be stupid considering the Browns still have cap money (that they need to spend 88% of no matter what, per the new CBA agreement) and the only other good guys left aren't at positions of need for the Browns.

UGH, I can see why being a fan of this team would be frustrating. The Browns had the second-most cap space in the league and completely blew it.

Nice to get a take from someone not wearing the brown and orange goggles.

I think Kruger will have a good spot in our defense, and his signing does not mean we won't draft a pass rusher in the draft.

Bryant - I think more bodies on the line is good, especially when Taylor has injury concerns. I hate how the Browns never have depth, so for once we have one in a key position.

CB - I completely agree. I thought we'd make a run at all of the top CBs but it seems we didn't. $2-5 million for a number 2 corner is not bad, and leaves Milliner as an option as well in a pass happy league.

CB Grimes meets with Browns

Browns show interest in ex-Bear TE Kellen Davis:

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...eports-1.381861

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

Agreed!!!

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Grimes would be the guy I targeted at corner above all others. If he's all the way back from his achilles injury he's the most complete corner available, and in this market, he won't be horrifically expensive.

Now if we can just get Huff and Dansby in the building...

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It has been said that Lombardi was helping game plan for Belichick last year and if we wouldn't have hired him he would have a spot in the Patriots front office right now.

That's a good one. I needed that laugh.

Belichek had five years to offer him a job and never did. After Lombardi left the Raiders he never smelled an opportunity to work in New England. They hired some Reece guy a few years back...How about when Scott Pioli left for KC? Belichek could have easily given him a job if he wanted him but didn't.

Hmmmmm.

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One other plus for Lombardi: Despite technically being out of the NFL for five years, it’s one of the worst-kept secrets that he has been consulting for Belichick during that time.

“He still puts the game plans together for Bill Belichick,” Brian Baldinger, Lombardi’s NFL Network colleague, told 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland Friday.

“I see the stuff being used week in, week out. There’s no question that Bill uses the advanced scouting Mike delivers to him.”

Boston Globe

Grimes is almost a must sign. No way we can run Horton's D with two rookies back there. (and we would have to if we don't sign someone).

Forgot about Grimes. Risking signing, not just because of the knee.

Grimes is better in zone coverage and Horton plays a crapload of man coverage. This is hyperbole, but it's similar to Asomugha excelling at man coverage with the Raiders and then signing with the Eagles and being forced to play zone coverage, thus his career going down the toilet.

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

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It has been said that Lombardi was helping game plan for Belichick last year and if we wouldn't have hired him he would have a spot in the Patriots front office right now.

That's a good one. I needed that laugh.

Belichek had five years to offer him a job and never did. After Lombardi left the Raiders he never smelled an opportunity to work in New England. They hired some Reece guy a few years back...How about when Scott Pioli left for KC? Belichek could have easily given him a job if he wanted him but didn't.

Hmmmmm.

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One other plus for Lombardi: Despite technically being out of the NFL for five years, it’s one of the worst-kept secrets that he has been consulting for Belichick during that time.

“He still puts the game plans together for Bill Belichick,” Brian Baldinger, Lombardi’s NFL Network colleague, told 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland Friday.

“I see the stuff being used week in, week out. There’s no question that Bill uses the advanced scouting Mike delivers to him.”

Boston Globe

I am aware of this interview. One also exists with Lombardi himself saying it on 92.3 the fan. I am not questioning this, rather the piece claiming he'd be with the Patriots if not for the Browns hire.

If Belichek liked him so much, how come he's never offered him a job since Cleveland? I know Belichek uses Lombardi for something, but it's never led to employment. He's been nothing but free labor.

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I think it's moot now that Mike Lombardi has returned to Cleveland as vice president of player personnel, but with the Mike Reiss report on ESPNBoston that Floyd Reese won't return to the Patriots as personnel executive in 2013, I'll believe that could well have been Lombardi's job if he hadn't found an exit from NFL Network to Cleveland.

Peter King

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Forgot about Grimes. Risking signing, not just because of the knee.

Grimes is better in zone coverage and Horton plays a crapload of man coverage. This is hyperbole, but it's similar to Asomugha excelling at man coverage with the Raiders and then signing with the Eagles and being forced to play zone coverage, thus his career going down the toilet.

A fair opinion, but as is usually the case, there are more factors involved.

First, the Falcons led the entire NFL in zone-blitzes in 2010 at 13.4%, at which time Grimes had arguably his best statistical season, racking up 87 tackles with 5 INT's. If they didn't trust Grimes they wouldn't have blitzed that much.

Now I do agree that he is better in zone than man, but you're basing your opinion on what Horton did last season in 'Zona. He often put Peterson in press-coverage, but only because he was good enough to do it time-after-time. In Cleveland, Grimes isn't going to be the #1 corner, as that goes to Haden. To that end, I would suggest that Grimes won't be left on an island all the time, as Horton likes to have a ton of pre-snap movement from his front-7 and safeties to disrupt a QB's read's.

Lastly, I would pose this question: Who out there in free agency is better?

To me, Grimes is the best bet. He was also rated the #1 corner available by many people (and I don't mean on this board.

)

And for the record, it's not his knee that was the problem. It was his achilles.

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I think it's moot now that Mike Lombardi has returned to Cleveland as vice president of player personnel, but with the Mike Reiss report on ESPNBoston that Floyd Reese won't return to the Patriots as personnel executive in 2013, I'll believe that could well have been Lombardi's job if he hadn't found an exit from NFL Network to Cleveland.

Peter King

Quoting Peter King, the biggest rumor mongerer in the media, doesn't help your case. He was simply speculating because they worked together. That's like saying Heckert was going to land in KC because Reid was hired there. C'mon. I bet King thought this too when Pioli left NE.

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Michael Huff and Kerry Rhodes are both currently 30 years old, with Rhodes turning 31 before the season starts. If we sign either one they would be a stop gap, which Banner said is something we won't do.

I don't recall him saying we wouldn't do that. We would prefer not to do it is what I recall.

You do what you have to do. I am sure we would rather get a guy who is 24 with a solid future in front, but if given the choice of bringing in a 31 year old or simply starting 10 players on D and not going with a safety, we'll bring in the 31 yeard old for a few years.

Just saying.....

Plus....stop gap is better than gap IMO.

No?

I am trusting Peter King over you.

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

Not my top cornerback entering free agency, but at this point...YES

And get a safety while we're at it!

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I am trusting Peter King over you.

I'm lost for words.....

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I am trusting Peter King over you.

I'm lost for words.....

"Memphis Frankenstein" say it all.

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Forgot about Grimes. Risking signing, not just because of the knee.

Grimes is better in zone coverage and Horton plays a crapload of man coverage. This is hyperbole, but it's similar to Asomugha excelling at man coverage with the Raiders and then signing with the Eagles and being forced to play zone coverage, thus his career going down the toilet.

A fair opinion, but as is usually the case, there are more factors involved.

First, the Falcons led the entire NFL in zone-blitzes in 2010 at 13.4%, at which time Grimes had arguably his best statistical season, racking up 87 tackles with 5 INT's. If they didn't trust Grimes they wouldn't have blitzed that much.

Now I do agree that he is better in zone than man, but you're basing your opinion on what Horton did last season in 'Zona. He often put Peterson in press-coverage, but only because he was good enough to do it time-after-time. In Cleveland, Grimes isn't going to be the #1 corner, as that goes to Haden. To that end, I would suggest that Grimes won't be left on an island all the time, as Horton likes to have a ton of pre-snap movement from his front-7 and safeties to disrupt a QB's read's.

Lastly, I would pose this question: Who out there in free agency is better?

To me, Grimes is the best bet. He was also rated the #1 corner available by many people (and I don't mean on this board. )

And for the record, it's not his knee that was the problem. It was his achilles.

All good points. And I don't know why I always mix up the those ACL and Achilles tendon injuries.

Well, because they each have A's, C's, and L's in them, and beyond that, 'cause no damned corner can run on a busted leg.

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Grimes would be the guy I targeted at corner above all others. If he's all the way back from his achilles injury he's the most complete corner available, and in this market, he won't be horrifically expensive.

Now if we can just get Huff and Dansby in the building...

why does it say GOD...after jason cambell in your sig?

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Grimes would be the guy I targeted at corner above all others. If he's all the way back from his achilles injury he's the most complete corner available, and in this market, he won't be horrifically expensive.

Now if we can just get Huff and Dansby in the building...

I like your thinking, but I also like Rhodes. I know that Huff filled in at CB some last season so that brings a nice quality to the table for Horton.

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I am trusting Peter King over you.

I'm lost for words.....

"Memphis Frankenstein" say it all.

Shouldn't you be copying and pasting an article to substitute for your football commentary?

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I am trusting Peter King over you.

I'm lost for words.....

"Memphis Frankenstein" say it all.

Shouldn't you be copying and pasting an article to substitute for your football commentary?

lmao. just cant take anything you say serious as far as the FO.

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I am trusting Peter King over you.

I'm lost for words.....

"Memphis Frankenstein" say it all.

Shouldn't you be copying and pasting an article to substitute for your football commentary?

lmao. just cant take anything you say serious as far as the FO.

Fine by me. Now you have a pretty good understanding of what most people think about your opinions. Go look for that article before someone out scoops you.

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

he already has from what i understandf

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

he already has from what i understandf

Would love to sign him ...

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

he already has from what i understandf

Do you have a link? According to the miami herald, he is not considering signing with any team at this time. Apparently he is going around getting offers to find his market value for a Falcons contract.

Playing the field eh ..

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Playing the field eh ..

LMAO....that was pretty hilarious

"Memphis Frankenstein"

vambo could be call the same.

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

he already has from what i understandf

Do you have a link? According to the miami herald, he is not considering signing with any team at this time. Apparently he is going around getting offers to find his market value for a Falcons contract.

no no...i was saying he has already left cleveland

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Don't let him leave the building!!!

he already has from what i understandf

Do you have a link? According to the miami herald, he is not considering signing with any team at this time. Apparently he is going around getting offers to find his market value for a Falcons contract.

no no...i was saying he has already left cleveland

ah...yeah...i see that now...

Grimes visited the Dolphins on Friday and Browns on Saturday. A source tells the Palm Beach Post that Grimes isn't considering signing with Miami "or any other team" at this time. It's possible he's simply not yet close to 100 percent. Mar 16 - 7:33 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/NFL/4562/Brent-Grimes

Welcome to the board, Staff Sergeant! (I presume from your sig).

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Welcome to the board, Staff Sergeant! (I presume from your sig).

Yes and Thank you for your service ... God bless

Def can use a healthy Grimes back there...also wouldn't mind seeing Huff in addition as he can play CB in a squeeze if need be...they need to sign someone sooner rather than later cause the market is drying up...TE market has already passed us Browns

I presume you guys are talking about Rick Grimes....

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I presume you guys are talking about Rick Grimes....

Brent Grimes

So you have more credibility than one of the most respected NFL writers?

Got it.

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I presume you guys are talking about Rick Grimes....

Brent Grimes

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So you have more credibility than one of the most respected NFL writers?

Got it.

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I presume you guys are talking about Rick Grimes....

Brent Grimes

lolololololol

'Cleveland Browns host free agent CB Brent Grimes, eyeing TE Kellen Davis, reports say'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/03/cleveland_browns_host_cb_brent.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
on March 16, 2013 at 7:43 PM, updated March 16, 2013 at 9:04 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns hosted a potential starting cornerback Saturday and are interested in another tight end named Davis, according to reports.

Former Falcons cornerback Brent Grimes, 29, visited the Browns, according to Alex Marvez of Fox Sports. And the Browns are interested in former Bears tight end Kellen Davis, according to Albert Breer of NFL Network.

Grimes (5-10, 180) also visited the Dolphins on Friday, and the Falcons hope to re-sign him, according to Marvez. The drawback with Grimes is that he's coming off a torn Achilles tendon, and full recovery generally takes up to a year.

He suffered it in the opener last season and was placed on injured reserve after undergoing surgery. The injury was a huge setback for the Falcons, who had franchised him for $10.2 million.

But before the injury, Grimes has established himself as an elite cornerback. In 2010, he made the Pro Bowl after making 70 tackles, five interceptions and 23 passes defensed in his 16 starts. The year before, he had 66 tackles and six interceptions.

At the NFL Combine last month, Falcons coach Mike Smith said that Grimes' recovery was going extremely well.

"Brent Grimes has been doing an outstanding job," he said. "He's still working in the training room, but he's progressing very well."

If the Browns sign Grimes, he'll start opposite Joe Haden at cornerback if he's ready. The Browns are in the hunt for a replacement for Sheldon Brown, but haven't pursued some of the top names on the free agent market, such as former Dolphin Sean Smith, who signed with the Chiefs.

Grimes apparently isn't the only free agent coming off a torn Achilles that the Browns are considering. The other is former Redskins tight end Fred Davis, who suffered his torn Achilles in October and missed the rest of the season.

But if it isn't one Davis for the Browns at tight end, it might be another. Chicago released Kellen Davis Wednesday after they signing free agent tight end Martellus Bennett.

According to Breer, Kellen Davis has already visited the Steelers and Saints and has drawn interest from the Bengals.

Davis, 27, signed a two-year deal last March, but hasn't lived up to expectations. He caught only 19 passes for 229 yards and two TDs last season, and struggled with drops.

In January, Bears General Manager Phil Emery acknowledged that Davis had "a rough season." At 6-7, 267, Davis never became the athletic tight end the Bears hoped he'd be. Their starting tight end the past two seasons, he caught 37 passes for 435 yards and six touchdowns.

The Browns signed reserve tight end Gary Barnidge this week, but are still looking for a starter to replace Ben Watson, who didn't receive an offer from the club to return.

Another tight end the Browns checked into, former Raider Brandon Myers, agreed to terms with the Giants today, according to reports.

Dumervil, Lloyd free: Two big-name free agents hit the market Saturday in former Broncos pass-rusher Elvis Dumervil and former Patriots receiver Brandon Lloyd. Dumervil, 29, was released by Denver on Friday.

Dumervil had agreed to reduce his salary from $12 million to $8 million, but his agent failed to get the paperwork for the new deal to the Broncos on time, and the team released him rather than guarantee his $12 million salary. Dumervil fired his agent and is looking for a new team.

Lloyd, 31, a deep threat who caught 74 passes for 911 yards and four TDs in New England last season, was let go because of a $3 million option bonus he had coming. It's not yet known if the Browns will pursue either player.

(end)

Browns Free Agent Target: Brent Grimes; Hercules or Achilles?
By Mike Krupka on Mar 17 2013, 6:06a
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2013/3/17/4114664/browns-free-agent-target-brent-grimes-hercules-or-achilles

Brent Grimes is NFL.com's #1 rated corner. I know he is coming off the injury, but this guy is a very, very good corner. I would love to have him. This is exciting news!!!

On the other hand, Kellen Davis has underachieved. He is big and athletic. I thought he would be a stud, but he has been a big disappointment.

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... this guy is a very, very good corner. I would love to have him

I'm certainly on board with you regarding Grimes...

Dover, thanks for the article. Great find.

You link didn't work so I provided one here...

link

There's far too much information in the article to post on here. Below is the preface to the story. It's worth checking out...

Browns Free Agent Target: Brent Grimes; Hercules or Achilles?

So in this piece I hope to present a thoughtful and informative argument that quantifies what it could mean to the Browns if we sign Brent Grimes. Outside of the Achilles tear that sent Brent Grimes to IR last season, he has been a stud at the corner. But as I will explain, the nature of Achilles tears and NFL players is a dynamic piece of science. I will present some facts from a recent Duke University study and apply these facts and findings to expected returns for Grimes in the future. I will admit the validity of my approach may be questioned, but I feel it helps create a context for performance expectation and could help Browns' fans glean what Banner and Lombardi are thinking when considering Grimes and his potential fit with the team.

I trust that we would do our homework on Grimes' injury. This guy can play!

And what the heck was that guy talking about? Kerry Rhodes is a Safety, and not a very good cover safety, at that.

The Captain is a back-up. I know we have shown some interest in him, but I hope it is only as a nickel corner.

Grimes is a quality corner. I hope he is healthy. If he is.....signing him would be HUGE!!!!!

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You link didn't work so I provided one here...

link

There's far too much information in the article to post on here. Below is the preface to the story. It's worth checking out...

I've had that problem with pasting links now a few times and I don't know why, probably because I was in a rush. Normally I check them once I've posted to see if they work, but I was on my way out the door, and just posted it and took off. I thought it was a good read, and I thought it was too much info to post here as well. Thanks for fixing the link, and glad you enjoyed it.

Horton "Blessed" By Free Agency (and I am sure he is the MOST happy of all Brown's staff about these acquirement):

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In a ClevelandBrowns.com exclusive, Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton believes the team is blessed to have signed Paul Kruger, Desmond Bryant and Quentin Groves during the first two days of free agency.

When Ray Horton was introduced as the new defensive coordinator of the Cleveland Browns in January, he emphasized the importance of having “big men that can run and little men that can hit.”

The Browns kept that and depth in mind when adding to the front seven with this week’s free-agent signings of linebackers Paul Kruger (Baltimore) and Quentin Groves (Arizona), and defensive lineman Desmond Bryant.

Horton said he and the team were “blessed” to add to the depth on the defensive front.

“I think if we keep building the defense the way we are, it’s like that pyramid system where you keep stacking blocks on top and you get to the top and you’ve got that pinnacle of players or player that’s your leader,” Horton said. “One of those guys is D’Qwell (Jackson), and I think bringing Paul Kruger in, that’s another where he’s been there and done that. That adds instant credibility in the locker room, on the field, for the opponents that the Cleveland Browns are going to get quality, good football players.”

Kruger came to the Browns after spending the first four years of his NFL career with the Baltimore Ravens. He registered a team-best nine sacks during the 2012 regular season and added another 4.5 in the postseason, including two in a Super Bowl XLVII victory over the San Francisco 49ers in New Orleans on Feb. 3.

“Paul Kruger, coming off of a Super Bowl, one of the leaders of Baltimore’s defense in kind of the same style we play here, tenacious,” Horton said. “He had 13.5 sacks this year, is just a fantastic leader, character player. I’m excited about him.”

After playing multiple positions along the defensive line with the Oakland Raiders, Bryant adds depth and versatility to the Browns’ first line of defense.

“Bryant (is) a D-lineman with just a relentless motor,” said Horton. “He’s a big, strong, fast kid from Harvard. He’s a guy that upgrades our depth and gives us great balance up there. He’ll be on the field all three downs for us.”

Adding Groves was a double bonus for Horton.

A second-round pick of Jacksonville in the 2008 NFL Draft, Groves made 29 starts in 79 career games and made 152 total tackles and collected 6.5 quarterback sacks with the Jaguars, Raiders and Arizona Cardinals.

Under Horton’s guidance in Arizona in 2012, Groves made seven starts and set career-bests for tackles (45) and sacks (four). The Cardinals led the league in passer rating allowed and interception percentage and finished in the top five in several other defensive categories, including second in interceptions and third-down efficiency, third in red zone defense and fourth in takeaways.

“Quentin was there with me the last year and is just a quality guy,” Horton said. “He’s a great special-teams player. He’s going to give us great depth. He knows the system. We really picked up three quality players that are going to play a lot of snaps for us.

“It always helps when you know you’re getting good men, good players, good leaders. You’re looking for that combination, and so, for me, it gives me a little comfort where if a player has a question, sometimes, players don’t want to ask coaches because they want the coach to assume they know everything. It’ll help a little bit with Quentin where a young guy may come to him and go, ‘What did he mean by X, Y, and Z?’ and he’ll be able to say, ‘Oh, it’s this.’ It gives you a little bit of that comfort. If something’s going some way, he can vouch a little bit, ‘This is a good system; this works. Just trust him.’”

Horton said he was “one of those guys” who believed the team was already deep along the defensive line with incumbents Jabaal Sheard, Ahtyba Rubin, John Hughes, Phil Taylor, Ishmaa’ily Kitchen, and Billy Winn.

“I can’t tell you how excited I am about having the men that we have up front,” Horton said. “One of the first things that jumped out on film when I looked was how these guys run to the ball. They’re all big, strong, tough guys that love football, run to the football, and boy, I’m excited. Everybody, in my opinion, can play football and you can roll guys through. I don’t think we’ll see a drop-off in the talent level. I know you won’t see a drop in effort.”

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...fb-4d8b5c669178

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Brent Grimes is NFL.com's #1 rated corner. I know he is coming off the injury, but this guy is a very, very good corner. I would love to have him. This is exciting news!!!

I read last night that he visited, and read this morning prior to posting the article that he left with no deal, and I thought they may have not done anything due to his injury being a concern. Glad there's still hope that we can get this guy.

Good article, LB.

I hope people read the part about DQ and the depth.

Grimes left w/out a deal? That stinks. Oh well.

He's probably not healthy enough yet to pass a physical.

It's said that injury takes a year to get back on the field and I believe he injured it in last years opener. So he's got a ways to go.

At least we're in the mix for when he gets healthy.

Nnamdi Asomugha visits the Saints, I really feel there is where he will want to sign. Him and Ryan go way back when Asomugha had his pro bowl seasons in Oakland:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-orleans-saints

For those pushing for Grimes here is a good read. Note article is lengthy and includes graphs and videos. I pasted highlights here included a link at the end.

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So in this piece I hope to present a thoughtful and informative argument that quantifies what it could mean to the Browns if we sign Brent Grimes. Outside of the Achilles tear that sent Brent Grimes to IR last season, he has been a stud at the corner. But as I will explain, the nature of Achilles tears and NFL players is a dynamic piece of science. I will present some facts from a recent Duke University study and apply these facts and findings to expected returns for Grimes in the future. I will admit the validity of my approach may be questioned, but I feel it helps create a context for performance expectation and could help Browns' fans glean what Banner and Lombardi are thinking when considering Grimes and his potential fit with the team.

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If healthy, Grimes is undoubtedly one of the best available free agent defensive backs. He could help fill a hole on the Browns roster that is badly in need of an upgrade and the thought of Haden and Grimes together is not a bad one.

So what’s been the hold up?

We have the money.

We have the need.

He was in the building.

Well, in March 2010, four orthopedic doctors at Duke University published a study that detailed the careers of NFL players after suffering a ruptured Achilles tendon between the years of 1997 and 2002. These doctors concluded that only about two-thirds of NFL players suffering said injury ever returned to the field.

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In fact, their study found that of the 31 players who tore their Achilles tendons during that time frame, 21 came back after the injury. Those players took an average of 11 months recover and get back on the field. Of the players that returned, nearly all of them saw a decrease in the number of games they played as well as a decline in their production in the three seasons following their return to the field.

Khalid Shirzad, one of the specialists who contributed to the study, said the average number of games played by the 21 players slid from 11.7 per year before the injury to 6.2.

Shirzad said the data collected also showed that the players' "power ratings" — what the researchers defined as a statistical measure of performance, ranging from passing and rushing yards for an offensive player to tackles and interceptions for a defensive player — decreased nearly 50 percent.

Specifically, there was a reduction of 95%, 87%, and 64% in power rating for linebackers, cornerbacks, and defensive tackles, respectively. There was also a reduction of 88%, 83%, and 78% in power rankings for wide receivers, running backs, and tight ends, respectively

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In summary, when I consider the comparative performance data and the data pertaining to Achilles injuries / players returning from them, this makes me view Grimes' fit in Cleveland with a much more tempered expectation. I hope this type of analytic data coupled with firm medical research helps fans understand - presumably - one of the big reasons why Grimes hasn't been signed in Miami and left Cleveland yesterday without an official offer .

So what do we do Browns fans? Do we take a chance that Brent will beat the odds, beat the statistics, and return to prior form? Afterall, Terrell Suggs seemed to be able to do so. Or do we move on and start to pursue the likes of Munnerlyn, Hall or even Rhodes?

Browns Free Agent Target: Brent Grimes; Hercules or Achilles?

J/C

There are a few guys out there that still interest me.

FS- Jairus Byrd
FS- Michael Huff
FS- Tanard Jackson
FS- Dawan Landry

CB- Joselio Hanson
CB- Dominique Franks
CB- Brent Grimes
CB- Mike Jenkins
CB- Captain Munnerlyn

TE- Fred Davis

OG- Kevin Boothe

j/c

I remember thinking Kellen Davis was going to be an absolute stud when he was drafted, dude just looks massive and quick on the field. Not quite sure why he never panned out. Maybe it is just me but it is hard for me to picture Huff being 30, doesn't seem that long ago when he was drafted lol. I know alot of people wanted him real bad back then. I haven't really followed him since but I remember thinking he was kinda small, which I know doesn't necessarily mean anything. *shrug*

'clutch: Jairus Byrd was "franchised"...

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Brent Grimes is NFL.com's #1 rated corner. I know he is coming off the injury, but this guy is a very, very good corner. I would love to have him. This is exciting news!!!

On the other hand, Kellen Davis has underachieved. He is big and athletic. I thought he would be a stud, but he has been a big disappointment.

Yeah,, he's a solid guy.. Yup,,tough injury but all it takes is time to come back from that As long as you don't rush it, he'll be just dandy.

as For Davis,, we have a TE friendly offense coming in... We have a HC that played TE, we have an OC that loves to use a TE. I don't know what, if anything that means, but if he's ever going to work out, sounds like we're the best place for him to find out.

Who is Kellen Davis? do you mean Fred Davis of the redskins?

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Who is Kellen Davis? do you mean Fred Davis of the redskins?

Former Bear TE, Kellen Davis...

Oh cool right on. Thanx.

A final push for the Ravens to sign Reed:

"Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome plans to sit down with Reed's agent David Dunn at the NFL owners meetings this week and make an offer to keep the future Hall of Fame safety. He believes Reed will make a decision this week."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...ush-for-ed-reed

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Yeah,, he's a solid guy.. Yup,,tough injury but all it takes is time to come back from that As long as you don't rush it, he'll be just dandy.

He'll be just dandy? Not sure where you got your info and why so many here are downplaying this, but a torn achilles is very difficult to return from. Remember Jamir Miller? It's actually quite concerning: Here's an article and attached study looking at NFL players who've sustained this injury. The study's 10 years old, and there may be some breakthroughs in tendon repair in that time....but it's a huge red flag in my book.

http://lowerextremityreview.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture

A study says that Achilles tears are all but a death sentence for NFL players, eh? Well, let’s have a closer look at that study. In fact, the LER article cites several individual studies, but primarily draws conclusions from one published in 2002:

Parekh et al used a player’s power rating as a measure of functional outcome in the evaluation of “skill players” in the NFL, which included defensive tackles, cornerbacks, linebackers, wide receivers, and running backs.3 The power rating is a measure of a player’s performance using statistics gathered during game play, such as passing and rushing yards for an offensive player and tackles and interceptions for a defensive player. This study showed that 31 acute Achilles tendon ruptures occurred in NFL players between 1997 and 2002. The average age of a player sustaining a rupture was 29, with an average career before injury spanning six years.
Of the 31 players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture, 21 (64%) returned to play in the NFL at an average of 11 months after injury. In the three seasons following their return, those 21 players saw significant decreases in games played and power ratings compared to the three seasons preceding the injury.

Let's reduce this to bullet points:
•The study covered 31 players playing from fourteen to nine years ago.
•The average age of the players at the time of injury was 29.
•The average career length at the time of injury was six years.
•10 of the 31 players studied did not return to the NFL.
•Those players who returned did so after an average of 11 months out.
•Affected players’ production steeply declined over 3 post-rehab seasons.

In 1997, there were 30 teams in the NFL. Multiply that by 53, and that’s 1,590 active roster spots. Assume 15% turnover (that’s conservative, 2010’s churn was 20.04%), plus teams 31 and 32 joining the league during the study, and you have roughly 2,800 players in your data set. With just 31 rupturing an Achilles tendon, that’s a very rare injury, affecting only 1.1%.

The average player in this study was 29, and the average career length was six years. Nobody on the Lions exactly matches that. The Lions have two 29-year-olds with seven years of experience: Stephen Peterman and Isaiah Ekejiuba. The 29-year-olds with eight or more years are Nate Burleson, Nathan Vasher, Erik Coleman, and Don Muhlbach. The Lions only had one 28-year-old with six years of experience, Tony Scheffler . . . until they signed Mike Bell and Jerome Harrison to try and replace Leshoure; both of them are 28-year-old six-year veterans.

How many of those guys above could pop an Achilles, take eleven months to rehab, secure a starting spot, and then stay just as productive over the next three years as they were for their first six or seven? None, because the average NFL career only lasts six years—and that’s going by the rosier league estimate. How many studies have we seen proving NFL players—especially tailbacks—hit the wall at 30, injuries or no? All this study has done is point out what we already knew: the shelf life of most NFL players is short, and major injuries are a major obstacle. It has nothing to do with the Achilles tendon.

I don’t have access to injury data, but I’d bet you a dollar that these figures would look exactly the same for ruptured ACLs, fractured patellas, torn biceps, broken femurs, or any other season-ending injury sustained by NFL players. None of this data is specifically relevant to a 21-year-old rookie in the best shape of his life, after a college career where he only carried a full load for one season. No elite running back in recent memory has come back from a ruptured Achilles at full speed, because no elite running back has recently ruptured an Achilles.

The LER article itself repeatedly notes that there’s a huge variety of therapies, rehab schedules, and outcomes, and no set-in-stone way to quickly return to full speed. After sweeping generalizations in the beginning, by the end it all but shrugs its shoulders and goes “Eh, who knows? I guess it depends.” If it depends, then Mikel Leshoure has every possible indicator pointing to success: youth, a light previous workload, no prior Achilles pain, and a long track record of determination to succeed. This is a logical double-edged sword: perhaps Leshoure’s rare combination of size, speed, and agility has already doomed his tendons, just as Aaron Gibson’s shoulder joints could never quite handle the torque their muscles were generating. But right now, the “facts” being used to eulogize Mikel Leshoure’s career simply don’t stand up to examination.

Grieve for the loss of his contributions this season. Grieve for the pain he and his mother must feel as his dream is deferred. But don’t grieve for Mikel Leshoure’s career before it’s begun, and don’t you dare write him off.

http://www.thelionsinwinter.com/2011/08/lies-damned-lies-mikel-leshoures-career.html

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Grimes would be the guy I targeted at corner above all others. If he's all the way back from his achilles injury he's the most complete corner available, and in this market, he won't be horrifically expensive.

Now if we can just get Huff and Dansby in the building...

why does it say GOD...after jason cambell in your sig?

I'm poking fun at myself.

Over the last few years I've pushed for the Browns to sign Campbell as a seat-warmer while we spend our draft picks on building up the team instead of wasting them on questionable QB's. So the running gag has been my love-affair with Campbell. Since I had the chance to put a wish-list in my sig, I thought I'd keep the humor going.

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The study's 10 years old, and there may be some breakthroughs in tendon repair in that time.

plus they said injuries sustained 9 to 14 years ago??? From the "Study"

But even just 10 years...Sports medicine, rehab has gotten so so much better in really all areas not just sport related surgery!

What about some recent Achilles rupture, surgery n rehab? I cannot recollect the exact case but In my head (a dangerous place to be in btw...lol

) I see to remember a pretty recent Achilles injury that I was thinking of our Miller n it came out very positive...OH I remember my recollection that was with Terrel Suggs of the SB Champion Ravens...didn't he sustain a Ruptured Achilles Tendon. He is back...so he is more indicative of the advances of surgery n WHAT TO EXPECT then 10 year study on injuries sustained 19-24 years ago???

Still - having ruptured an Achilles Tendon (upper not lower so it didn't roll up - in 2000) its a terrible injury...but so much of it is in the REHAB. I am curious how Gocong comes out. Hope of course the best for him n for us for that matter

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CB Grimes meets with Browns

Grimes would be the guy I targeted at corner above all others. If he's all the way back from his achilles injury he's the most complete corner available, and in this market, he won't be horrifically expensive.

Now if we can just get Huff and Dansby in the building...

why does it say GOD...after jason cambell in your sig?

I'm poking fun at myself.

Over the last few years I've pushed for the Browns to sign Campbell as a seat-warmer while we spend our draft picks on building up the team instead of wasting them on questionable QB's. So the running gag has been my love-affair with Campbell. Since I had the chance to put a wish-list in my sig, I thought I'd keep the humor going.

and If we didn't like you... we wouldn't make fun of you

What made me look that up was the injury to Hodges....he is nothing compared to what he was pre-injury....and he's a punter. There have been some success stories as of late, but I don't think we're in a position to be rolling the dice given our needs.

Probably ten reports saying he'll be fine.

Medical science has come a long way since Jamir Millers injury.

Example, 4 years ago, my wife had a hip replacement. 18 inch scar, 4 days in the hospital, 5 more in a rehab center, then home.

On Feb 19, she had the other hip done, Went in on Tuesday, had the surgery done at 3:45pm, home on Thursday by 5pm.

In home rehab, walking with a cane within a 2 weeks and oh yeah, 5 inch scar.

Different then a torn Achilles for sure, but the point is, treatment has advanced.

we are also talking about a very young elite athlete.

Yeah, I think he'll be just fine if given enough time to recoup and the right rehab.

Achilles injures are dicey, as are any knee injuries. What swayed me as a pro-Grimes guy is how his former team has continued to make a big push to get him back. The reason I consider that significant is because while other teams around the league aren't going to be privy to how his surgery and subsequent rehab is going, the Falcons are. If they felt he wasn't coming along or was a poor gamble they wouldn't be interested in signing him.

And 'superbowldogg, thanks.

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'clutch: Jairus Byrd was "franchised"...

ohhh, Well I figured there would be one guy on that list that I missed some news on. Don't get to follow the NFL as much as I used to.

I think the big concern right now for a lot of teams is whether he'll be worth the price he commands for someone who may not be ready when the season begins.

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I think the big concern right now for a lot of teams is whether he'll be worth the price he commands for someone who may not be ready when the season begins.

that's always a risk. Let the medical staff look him over,, then take their advice.

if they say run away,, then do so.

I hear ya, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what's happening. He seemed pretty frustrated after getting two no-deal meetings. Maybe he's asking too high for his risk factor.

Free agent cornerback Brent Grimes enjoyed visit with Cleveland Browns

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Free agent cornerback Brent Grimes enjoyed his visit with the Cleveland Browns and is expected to start narrowing his choices in the next few days, a league source said.

Grimes, 29, tore his Achilles tendon in Atlanta's opener last season and spent the year on injured reserve. The Falcons, who hope to re-sign him, paid him $10.2 million in 2012 after designating him as a franchise player.

While in Berea, Grimes visited with defensive coordinator Ray Horton and coach Rob Chudzinski, among others. Grimes was in Miami on Friday to talk to the Dolphins.

"Brent enjoyed spending time with the head coach and defensive coordinator," the source said. "He came away impressed with their overall plan for the 2013 season and beyond."

Atlanta coach Mike Smith said at last month's Scouting Combine in Indianapolis that Grimes' recovery was "progressing very well."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/03/free_agent_cornerback_brent_gr.html

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I hear ya, but I'm starting to wonder if that's what's happening. He seemed pretty frustrated after getting two no-deal meetings. Maybe he's asking too high for his risk factor.

Well, let's see, the Browns have had him in, the Dolphins had him in, Atlanta is hoping to keep him and who knows who else tried to get him in?

The team with the Biggest wallet (and is willing to spend it) will probably win.

By the way, Atlanta wanting to keep him is a big tell....

Steelers showing interest in Dumervil. Do they even have any cap to work with to even make an offer that is competitive?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-elvis-dumervil

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Steelers showing interest in Dumervil. Do they even have any cap to work with to even make an offer that is competitive?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-elvis-dumervil

Article says Ravens as well...

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Steelers showing interest in Dumervil. Do they even have any cap to work with to even make an offer that is competitive?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-elvis-dumervil

Article says Ravens as well...

It's already been stated about Ravens and some other teams.

Steelers also interested in Bradshaw. I think they have no depth or quality at the RB position. Green Bay also interested in Ahmad's services:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/17/steelers-packers-interested-in-ahmad-bradshaw/

Sort of irritating. At this point I would have rather gotten Dumervil than Kruger. I'd hate to see him end up in the AFC north anywhere but here.

Yeah I hear you on that one. Not necessarily on coming here but staying out of the AFC North.

I hope Green Bay come in and scoops him up, don't know if they are interested but he would be a nice fit there I think.

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Welcome to the board, Staff Sergeant! (I presume from your sig).

That is correct...and thank you.

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Welcome to the board, Staff Sergeant! (I presume from your sig).

Yes and Thank you for your service ... God bless

You're welcome...and thank you!

Bengals considering Ryan Fitzpatrick for QB2

That would be a good fit. Fitzpatrick and Dalton are very similar players. Fitzpatrick is a smart veteran. I think he would help Dalton's development.

Not sure who the Bengals backup Qb was last season but the only Qb besides Dalton currently on their roster is Zac Robinson.

It was Gradkowski, who recently signed w the Steelers...

As a brief reminder. Fitzpatrick was the starter in Cinci before he went to Buffalo. He was Palmer's backup but started for 12 games that season.

Gradkowski is also a former Bengal backup QB.

just clicking

Talib signed one year w/Pats??? Leaving Grimes as the top dawg left for CB FA.

Not good he left the Bldg. without a Contract signed. Recent history hasn't shown it as a good sign. Dolphins have MONEY LEFT???

Dummerville - I like him too but Kruger would be opposite of him so not apples to apples in comparison. But I think he was a surprise so that it was Avril or Kruger n we won that scenario. Still we could spend more than Steelers or Ravens IF WE WANTED...So I won't question the FO...they went into this with a plan n have stuck with it. I'm pretty sure CB FS still might be in the plan. Although FS I haven't seen much interest shown by us???

JMHO

It is entirely possible that Horton has looked at the plethora of youngsters we have at FS and has seen someone he likes in that role in his defense. Stranger things have happened. Heck, if he could turn one of our young players into a legitimate starter, that would be tremendous.

We have been linked to Rhodes at one point though. He could be seen as a mentor type though.

If so that would be Gipson. He impressed me a lot!

Wouldn't it be astounding if Usama Young turned into a pro-bowler this season?

There hasn't been too much action in free agency in general. Byrd re-signed or was tagged with the Bills. I believe Goldson said he wouldn't play here(I may be wrong). Reed is unsure what he is doing or where he is going. There isn't exactly a bevy of talented safeties in this league.

My love for Sheldon brown is ridiculous but I wouldn't mind seeing him back there at free safety.

For whatever reason I desperately want our defense to get turnovers this season. I am tired of our top INT being like 4-6. Anthony Henry's rookie year spoiled me completely. Haden, Brown, and Young each had three INTs last season.
Color me unimpressed.

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The Cleveland Browns could target free-agent S Kerry Rhodes (Cardinals)

The Browns COULD do a lot of things... this sounds like nothing more than the authors speculation... unless he has some kind of source, which he doesn't mention.

Yea, there seemed to be a lot of "could be interested/targeting" especially right when FA started.

If we somehow come out of this signing Davis and Grimes (wishful thinking probably) this will be my favorite FA period since the move. As it stands right now I still like what we have done.

Yeah, I like what they have done also.

Over paid a little for Kruger but that was counterbalanced by getting Groves at a bargain, imo.

Work still to be done... but again by leting the market settle and re- price itself we are still in position to get some guys we can plug and play...

As I have said for the past three regimes... we need to have a plan but even more we have to have the stones to work it and not scrap it evey three years or so.

Looks like there is a plan... will be let it run it's course?

List of the best players still available:

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Quarterback
1. Ryan Fitzpatrick: Fitzpatrick is far from a jewel, but his experience should at least make him useful as a backup somewhere. He’s never been able to shake his extremely turnover-prone ways.

2. Kevin Kolb: He’s not a free agent yet, but that’s just a matter of time. Kolb’s younger than Fitzpatrick and may have been doomed to fail in a bad situation with the Cardinals. Any team out there looking at Kolb as a potential starter is in bad shape for 2013.

3. Jason Campbell: There does not appear to be much left in the tank at this point in Campbell’s career, but teams could do worse in the search for a backup. He’s at least been through the ringer as an NFL QB.

Running back
1. Ahmad Bradshaw: A healthy Bradshaw would be an elite find among this year’s free-agent class. Even though he’s constantly banged up, Bradshaw remains a dual-threat weapon.

2. Michael Turner: If you want a big-play threat, look elsewhere. If you need an experienced back capable of handling 220-plus carries, though, Turner still fits the bill.

3. Felix Jones: There just has to be more Jones can do, right? Somewhere, hiding within a battered and inconsistent player is the guy that led the league with a 5.9 yards-per-carry average a few years back.

Wide receiver
1. Brandon Lloyd: New England may not want Lloyd back, but he should find a home after a 74-catch 2012 season. There were reports that Lloyd was a bit of an issue in the locker room, so that could drive down his market.

2. Darrius Heyward-Bey: DHB appeared ready to turn the corner after a strong 2011 season, only to slip back to mediocrity in 2012. He’s still young and remains a dangerous weapon outside, especially if he winds up in a solid offensive situation.

3. Julian Edelman: The poor man’s Wes Welker may have trouble finding a place where he fits as well as New England … and he still could wind up back with the Patriots. Still, for a team in need of a cheap, versatile slot receiver, Edelman has to be in consideration.

BURKE: Best, worst contracts from free agency’s first week

Tight end
1. Fred Davis: Davis lost more than half the 2012 season to a torn Achilles. He’s a legitimate threat for a passing attack when he’s at 100 percent.

2. Kellen Davis: The Bears signed Martellus Bennett to play tight end because Davis proved nearly incapable of catching a pass. He is good enough, however, to warrant a shot as at least a second tight end.

3. Dante Rosario: Rosario had that three-touchdown game last season with Antonio Gates hurt, then barely made a peep the rest of the year. That explosive performance hints at the potential that’s there, though.

Offensive tackle
1. Andre Smith: Smith had a sensational 2012 — one that wasn’t quite in line with the rest of his career. So, teams will be wary of paying for a player who could revert back to his disappointing previous form. That said, 2012 Andre Smith was a beast.

2. Sebastian Vollmer: If not for injury worries, Vollmer probably would be ahead of Smith here. He’s a hulking but athletic presence on the edge and has proven to be a terrific fit for New England’s offense.

3. Eric Winston: Winston should come cheaper than either Smith or Vollmer. Of course, there’s a reason for that: Winston is a step down from these players.

Guard/Center
1. Brandon Moore: The best interior lineman on the market, Moore should see the buzz around him pick up now that the top tier free agents are off the board.

2. Kevin Boothe: The ex-Giant delivered an underrated performance in 2012. Better yet, he can slide out and play tackle, too.

3. Dan Koppen: The Patriots cut Koppen last year, only for the veteran to step in and play very well for Denver. He’s reaching the end of the line, but he showed in 2012 that he can get the job done.

BANKS: Five non-playoff teams who improved the most

Defensive tackle
1. Richard Seymour: Seymour might retire rather than suit up in 2013 — he’s reportedly asking for big money, which could price him out of just about every team’s range. That’s too bad, because he played well for Oakland last year before an injury sidelined him.

2. Sedrick Ellis: A lot of the free-agent DTs have come off the board already, leaving high-upside, low-production guys like Ellis, the No. 7 pick in 2008.

3. Sen’Derrick Marks: Sort of in the same boat as Ellis, as his play on the field has never really lived up to the hype. Still just 26 years old, the undersized Marks could be a solid depth addition.

Defensive end
1. Elvis Dumervil: All of the sacks, none of the fax. A ridiculous Kinko’s-related snafu last week released Dumervil onto the open market. He did not play well enough in 2012 to earn the $12 million he was set to make in 2013 (before agreeing to that ill-fated pay cut). He does still bring enough pass-rushing ability to the table to be arguably the top available player out there right now.

2. John Abraham: That the pass-rush-needy Falcons sent Abraham packing is a bit of a red flag, and the incredibly cold market for defensive ends won’t help him. Abraham did have 10.0 sacks in 2012.

3. Dwight Freeney: The 33-year-old Freeney managed a mere 5.0 sacks in 14 games for the Colts last year. But his veteran savvy should earn him some points.

Outside linebackers
1. Victor Butler: Maybe the most overlooked member of this year’s free-agent class, Butler might thrive if given a shot to play on a full-time basis.

2. James Harrison: Harrison will turn 35 in May and his production has been on a steady decline since a 16.0-sack season back in 2008.

3. Daryl Smith: He should come extremely cheap after a groin injury limited him to fewer than 125 snaps last season. Smith is far from a great pass rusher, but he did have two seasons of 107 tackles from 2009-11.

Inside linebackers
1. Karlos Dansby: Pushed out by Miami’s defensive revamping, Dansby should field plenty of calls from teams in need of reliable inside ‘backers. He was on the field for more than 1,100 snaps in 2012 as a three-down player.

2. Brad Jones: The 26-year-old Jones never could nail down a starting role in Green Bay, so teams will have to temper their expectations.

3. Brian Urlacher: The name is more of a sell now than the player. Urlacher would be a nice fit on a young, talented defense in need of a veteran voice. Just don’t expect him to be a Pro Bowler.

Cornerback
1. Brent Grimes: Possibly the next big piece to fall (maybe by returning to Atlanta), Grimes earned the franchise tag prior to 2012, only to tear his Achilles. He could wind up a bit of a steal.

2. Antoine Winfield: Minnesota’s surprise release of Winfield could be another franchise’s gain. The veteran has been sensational as a slot corner for multiple seasons, and he was Pro Football Focus’ top-rated CB overall in 2012.

3. E.J. Biggers: With apologies to Nnamdi Asomugha, Biggers deserve a mention here after how he played for Tampa Bay’s brutal defense last season. He’s not a No. 1 guy, but he should be strong addition to someone’s secondary.

Safety
1. Ed Reed: How much does Reed have left? If the 2012 season was any indication, the hourglass is almost out of sand. And yet, he’s now a Super Bowl champion with a terrific locker room presence and the ability to change a game in a heartbeat.

2. Kerry Rhodes: Rhodes played amazingly well for Arizona last season, so his release — even though he was owed $6 million — was a surprise. If Reed is commanding attention, then Rhodes should be, too.

3. Michael Huff: The Raiders played Huff at corner for most of last year because their roster was such a mess. He should be back at safety in 2013, where he’s a better player.

Link

Off that list I like Heyward-Bey, Fred Davis, Victor Butler, Brent Grimes, and Kerry Rhodes. If we signed only one of those guys I would be pretty happy.

From a link within that same article titled "Five Non Playoff Teams Who Improved The Most"...

3. Cleveland -- If the Browns do intend to ride out the foreseeable future with quarterback Brandon Weeden, I like the approach of surrounding him with the best possible defense and running game and giving him some time to work on his craft in the NFL. That's why Cleveland's emphasis on increased pass rush and improving their defensive front seven in free agency has been a solid plan of attack. You can argue the point the Browns over-paid Ravens outside linebacker Paul Kruger at $8 million a year over five years, but he did lead the Super Bowl champions in sacks last season and rose to the occasion in the postseason.

Even better than Kruger's signing was the addition of ex-Oakland defensive tackle Desmond Bryant, a well-regarded talent who is going to greatly aid Cleveland's transition to the 3-4 defense under new coordinator Ray Horton. Bryant will move to end in the Browns' scheme, and he's adept at both creating pass pressure and playing the run. Bryant is known for great intensity and effort and his addition should provide some much-needed attitude to the Browns. When you factor in the bargain basement addition of free-agent outside linebacker Quentin Groves, who had a nice comeback season in Arizona playing under Horton, Cleveland's defense suddenly has a lot more firepower and the ability to quickly transition to its new formation.

Though the Browns could still use a veteran cornerback in free agency, they've still got some options in one of the deepest positions in this year's market. The additions of Kruger and Groves this week also mean Cleveland could go in a direction other than outside linebacker -- widely predicted before free agency began -- with its No. 6 pick in the first round of April's draft. If a cornerback like Alabama's Dee Milliner is still on the board, the Browns will have done deft work of making free agency set up and dovetail with their draft.

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From a link within that same article titled "Five Non Playoff Teams Who Improved The Most"...

3. Cleveland -- If the Browns do intend to ride out the foreseeable future with quarterback Brandon Weeden, I like the approach of surrounding him with the best possible defense and running game and giving him some time to work on his craft in the NFL. That's why Cleveland's emphasis on increased pass rush and improving their defensive front seven in free agency has been a solid plan of attack. You can argue the point the Browns over-paid Ravens outside linebacker Paul Kruger at $8 million a year over five years, but he did lead the Super Bowl champions in sacks last season and rose to the occasion in the postseason.

Even better than Kruger's signing was the addition of ex-Oakland defensive tackle Desmond Bryant, a well-regarded talent who is going to greatly aid Cleveland's transition to the 3-4 defense under new coordinator Ray Horton. Bryant will move to end in the Browns' scheme, and he's adept at both creating pass pressure and playing the run. Bryant is known for great intensity and effort and his addition should provide some much-needed attitude to the Browns. When you factor in the bargain basement addition of free-agent outside linebacker Quentin Groves, who had a nice comeback season in Arizona playing under Horton, Cleveland's defense suddenly has a lot more firepower and the ability to quickly transition to its new formation.

Though the Browns could still use a veteran cornerback in free agency, they've still got some options in one of the deepest positions in this year's market. The additions of Kruger and Groves this week also mean Cleveland could go in a direction other than outside linebacker -- widely predicted before free agency began -- with its No. 6 pick in the first round of April's draft. If a cornerback like Alabama's Dee Milliner is still on the board, the Browns will have done deft work of making free agency set up and dovetail with their draft.

Saints snagged up Ben Watson for three years. Ben should be happy, he'll be used a lot there I think.

Matt Hasselbeck released by the Titans:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151623/article/matt-hasselbeck-released-by-tennessee-titans

Thought this was funny. Oakland interested in Kellen Winslow:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/18/raiders-reportedly-interested-in-kellen-winslow/

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Matt Hasselbeck released by the Titans:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151623/article/matt-hasselbeck-released-by-tennessee-titans

Now that is an interesting person to look at. got the experience, can mentor Weeden or take over and do a solid job until the right guy is found. That's if he's got anything left in the tank..I don't know if he does or not.

I wouldn't mind Grimes and Bey.. in fact, I'd like both.

It really wouldn't surprise me at all if Heyward-Bey ended up on the Browns, considering he has the physical attributes to be a pretty good deep threat and Little seems to be better from the slot.

What ever happened to Danario Alexander? Is he still out there or has he signed with someone? He played well for Norv. I wonder why we haven't shown any interest in him at all. I know he has the injury history but he stayed healthy all of last year and produced.

Also noticed Dallas Clark on that list. What's his story? Where did he go after he left Indy? Didn't hear much about him last year. Was he injured or did he just get old and stop producing? Is he a viable TE candidate for us or is he just a big name now?

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Matt Hasselbeck released by the Titans:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000151623/article/matt-hasselbeck-released-by-tennessee-titans

Browns have shown interest:

"ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported Monday that the Arizona Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns , Indianapolis Colts, New Orleans Saints, New York Giants, San Francisco 49ers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers all have shown early interest in Hasselbeck. The Cardinals and Bills are the only two without a named starting quarterback."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...matt-hasselbeck

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What ever happened to Danario Alexander? Is he still out there or has he signed with someone? He played well for Norv. I wonder why we haven't shown any interest in him at all. I know he has the injury history but he stayed healthy all of last year and produced.

Well being he's an RFA, anyone can make on a offer on him. San Diego has the right of refusal, so they can match any offer that is made for him and Alexander would remain a Charger. I'm pissed about our new GM, Tom Telesco, slapping an original round tender on him, even with the knee injuries. Because he was undrafted, a team can outbid the Chargers and not have to give us any draft picks in return. All because Tom Telesco wants to save $700K in cap space.

As for Alexander as a player, the dude's an absolute beast. Every bit as good as Vincent Jackson was in the Air Coryell offense. I'm scared ****less that the Browns are going to offer him a frontloaded contract worth maybe $20 million over 4 years, because the Chargers won't be able to match.

I have two I haven't hard much about anywhere. One being Danario Alexander. With obvious ties to Norv Turner and a RFA tender that involves no draft picks I would love to have him in Cleveland. If he can stay healthy he is a great pick up.

Another than can be had very cheaply is Ramses Barden. He has never really gotten a starting shot in NY. Last year in a spot start he had a huge game. He is a tall fast receiver that I think could shine in our new vertical passing game.

What do you all think?

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I have two I haven't hard much about anywhere. One being Danario Alexander. With obvious ties to Norv Turner and a RFA tender that involves no draft picks I would love to have him in Cleveland. If he can stay healthy he is a great pick up.

Another than can be had very cheaply is Ramses Barden. He has never really gotten a starting shot in NY. Last year in a spot start he had a huge game. He is a tall fast receiver that I think could shine in our new vertical passing game.

What do you all think?

Danario Alexander would be a perfect fit, having played for Norv and not to mention he is a very very good WR ... JMHO

I like Danario and all, but he is no Vincent Jackson

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I like Danario and all, but he is no Vincent Jackson

As a guy who's watched every game that Vincent Jackson has played in a Charger uniform, Alexander is every bit the receiver. During Week 7, Alexander stepped into a completely broken offense last year (San Diego's offensive line was probably the second worst in the league, which is horrible for any system yet alone Norv's Air Coryell system) and put up extremely similar numbers to VJ for the next 9 weeks. I really can't emphasize how amazing that is. He literally walked off the street, learned the playbook, and put up VJ-like numbers for 9 weeks in a offense that was horrific compared to Tampa Bay's. There are very, very few receivers in the league who could do that.

Frankly, the only thing VJ is definitively better than Alexander at is blocking.

In summary, if Alexander didn't have a bum knee, he'd a $13 million per year guy.

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I have two I haven't hard much about anywhere. One being Danario Alexander. With obvious ties to Norv Turner and a RFA tender that involves no draft picks I would love to have him in Cleveland. If he can stay healthy he is a great pick up.

Another than can be had very cheaply is Ramses Barden. He has never really gotten a starting shot in NY. Last year in a spot start he had a huge game. He is a tall fast receiver that I think could shine in our new vertical passing game.

What do you all think?

both are really fascinating to me, diggin the vibe a bit

Thanks for posting here and offering your opinion. Much appreciated. Not sure if you're from the SD area, but I went out there about 1.5 years ago and found my favorite brewery: Lost Abbey.....and I've sampled a LOT of good beers.

Back on track, I'm surprised you mention your line was bad. I thought Vazquez was a very hot commodity this offseason.

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Thanks for posting here and offering your opinion. Much appreciated. Not sure if you're from the SD area, but I went out there about 1.5 years ago and found my favorite brewery: Lost Abbey.....and I've sampled a LOT of good beers.

Back on track, I'm surprised you mention your line was bad. I thought Vazquez was a very hot commodity this offseason.

I haven't been but that sounds good! We have a pretty good brewery scene here in SD.

Oh, and Vazquez was literally the only decent player on our line last year. We had a rookie UDFA who played RT at UCLA starting at our LT position, and below average starters at LG, C, and RT.

And Vazquez was a little overpaid by Denver IMO.

...

Back on topic: I'm going to be very disappointed if Norv lobbies the Cleveland front office to sign Alexander. GMs must be extremely hesitant about his five knee surgeries (probably rightfully so) because the guy is too talented to not be paid more.

Many around here have taken to thinking that Rivers is over-the-hill and not a good QB anymore. My belief has always been that because of his physical limitations, he's only going to be as good as his line. To that end, with the loss of some skill players and a pathetic line, Rivers could only do so much.

I don't know that you had the 2nd worst line in the NFL, but congrats...you were in the top-5 (in the bad way)

I agree that Vasquez was your best guy, and you bet the Donks over-paid to land him.

Regarding Alexander...5 surgeries on his knees? Holy Hell. He's still a pup, relatively speaking...

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Many around here have taken to thinking that Rivers is over-the-hill and not a good QB anymore. My belief has always been that because of his physical limitations, he's only going to be as good as his line. To that end, with the loss of some skill players and a pathetic line, Rivers could only do so much.

I don't know that you had the 2nd worst line in the NFL, but congrats...you were in the top-5 (in the bad way) I agree that Vasquez was your best guy, and you bet the Donks over-paid to land him.

Regarding Alexander...5 surgeries on his knees? Holy Hell. He's still a pup, relatively speaking...

Yeah.

I'm not going to turn this into a "Philip Rivers is still a great QB thread" (I've been involved in far too many for one lifetime haha), but I'm just going to say that a Rivers-led offense has finished out of the top 5 in scoring once — in 2012. And his prime years (2008-2010) were with average offensive lines. And his best year IMO (2010) was the year he was throwing to guys like Seyi Ajirotutu and Legedu Naanee for large portions of the season.

In other words, give him even an average OL (not the joke of an OL he was given in 2012 and through much of 2011, until Jared Gaither showed up and Rivers' QB rating went through the roof) and the guy will play at an elite level.

OT: Yeah, pretty crazy that Alexander's 24 years-old and has had 5 knee surgeries haha.

I had started a thread on the other board about Rivers when it became apparent Norv and Smith were goners. I was hoping their new regime would want to go in another direction and Rivers would become available. I think Rivers would excel behind Cleveland's OL. Believe me, our OL is excellent at pass blocking.

Back to the thread:

I think Hasselback is very interesting. He would be a good choice if we decide to give Weeden another year. Hasselback could come in for Weeden if the latter flops--which is certainly a possibility.

The other guy is Kerry Rhodes. I liked him in NY. He is big. Flies around. Good hitter. His problem was that he wasn't always the most disciplined player on the field. Can get turned around in space. I heard he played well last year, but I didn't watch any of Arizona's games. I wonder if Horton likes him?

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Back to the thread:

I think Hasselback is very interesting. He would be a good choice if we decide to give Weeden another year. Hasselback could come in for Weeden if the latter flops--which is certainly a possibility.

we could have gotten him like 3 years ago and most people didn't want him... because of his age.
I don't know why we would want him now that more time has passed and he has only gotten older and his durability has gotten worse.

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Back to the thread:

I think Hasselback is very interesting. He would be a good choice if we decide to give Weeden another year. Hasselback could come in for Weeden if the latter flops--which is certainly a possibility.

we could have gotten him like 3 years ago and most people didn't want him... because of his age.
I don't know why we would want him now that more time has passed and he has only gotten older and his durability has gotten worse.

3 years ago I wanted him. Especially since we were moving to a West Coast offense that he knew so well. Now I think he has lost too much arm strength to be an effective starter.

Unless he had some kind of injury that I am unaware of and has since recovered.

Yes I too lobbied in the Fandom world for us to pick Hasselback up in 2011 and just could not understand us not being a player for him.

Now - not a vertical stretch type of QB although he did like to throw long - maybe why Holmgren didn't want him? Hated the fact we signed Wallace n he was useless as a "team Player".

I would see him strictly as a backup vet mentor. Not competition for the starting QB job.

OG at #6...old old thinking back in January early Feb. Warmack played that hand into a late round pick. Cooper might go before him cause of the combine but not earlier than Mid Round. OG might have been a brief thought I know I had that thought. But Warmack dropped while Ansah rose as well as Medically Jones was found sound n even stated Miss Diagnosed with the Stenosis thing. Things change...but Inside info???

Maybe somebody hiding in the stall next door n heard Banner yell out...OH Guard! as he ate the wrong food that day!

JMHO

Hasselback would have been a great addition 3 years ago but now he would be no more than a QB coach and we already have one of those ... JMHO

Is it a done deal in INDY??? Perfect spot for him...Vet Mentor. jmho

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Is it a done deal in INDY??? Perfect spot for him...Vet Mentor. jmho

Good now we don't have to have that discusion any longer ...

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we could have gotten him like 3 years ago and most people didn't want him... because of his age.
I don't know why we would want him now that more time has passed and he has only gotten older

Because he's still younger than Weeden.....

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we could have gotten him like 3 years ago and most people didn't want him... because of his age.
I don't know why we would want him now that more time has passed and he has only gotten older

Because he's still younger than Weeden.....

LOL!

Matt Hasselbeck back in 2010 sounded way better than Jake Delhomme when we first got Mike Holmgren, I thought for sure that was going to happen. Now it being 2013 and multiple back injuries later I say absolutely NOT to Mr. Hasselbeck.

Let Weeden and Colt battle it out for the starting job, or bring Ryan Mallet and let him join the mix, but we don't need an injury prone veteran on the team.

From what I hear, Hasselbeck and the Colts are pretty much a sure thing. I mean it's a perfect fit for Matt and a perfect fit for the Colts.

Bringing Matt here, IMO, is just providing mentoring. We need to provide competition.

Shaun Phillips is a guy that is still out there. That surprises me. He is not an elite pass rusher, but he can definitely still play. He had 9.5 sacks last season.

I don't think we will sign him, but I am surprised because I haven't seen him mentioned at all.

Texans' offer to Ed Reed

Posted by Josh Alper on March 19, 2013, 5:51 PM EDT The Texans and the agents for safety Ed Reed met again in Phoenix, but reports are that they aren’t any closer to a deal.

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle reports that the two sides are “not close” on agreeing to terms at this point in their conversations. According to McClain, the Texans offered Reed a contract that would pay him a little more than $4 million a year. Aaron Wilson of the Baltimore Sun hears the same and adds that it was a three-year offer.

Both men also agree that Reed is looking for more money, in the $6-7 million range, and that appears to be more than the Ravens are willing to pay as well. If Reed is only going to sign a contract that pays him around the same amount he made last year — $7.2 million — he could be waiting a while to wind up on a team for the 2013 season.

If that’s the case, the Texans and Ravens might both move on to other safety options and leave Reed with even less appealing offers if he’s going to keep his career going.

Have you guys seen the Oakland Raiders roster?

They seriously might go 0-16 next year. That team is TERRIBLE. There only wins were a sweep over Kansas City, Jacksonville and a fluke win over Pittsburgh.

Yep. They are awful. They rival JAX and NYJ for worst team in the league. They have just about nobody on defense. That's what inspired my subheader for their mock draft page: http://www.cornerblitz.com/2013/Mocks/Post-Combine/OAK.aspx

2013 Post-Combine Mock NFL Draft: Oakland Raiders
Where any pick is an upgrade.

A nice draft on defense and they can compete in some games, though.

Oakland definitely looks quite questionable this coming year... oh well, not our problem

Yeah, Chokeland is awful. I love it as a Chargers fan.

No offensive line, no defense, mediocre QB, etc.

The really weird part is that they actually have a couple of decent receivers though ...... even without Heyward-Bey.

They have Rod Streater, who shows real promise, and Denarius Moore looks like he has a future in the NFL as well. They also have Jacoby Ford, who has played well at times, but was hurt last year.

Too bad for them they may not have a QB to throw the ball to this group of guys, who might be their most talented unit on the time.

Ted Ginn possibly joining Panthers

BLURB

Browns' options at tight end dwindling

By Jamison Hensley | Mar 18, 2013 2:55 PM

Ben Watson, the Cleveland Browns' starting tight end for the past three seasons, signed a three-year deal with the New Orleans Saints on Monday. While the Browns weren't expected to re-sign Watson, this officially means they'll need to find a new starting tight end.

Cleveland was supposed to address this position in free agency because the team isn't ready to turn to unproven Jordan Cameron. The options in free agency are now very limited at tight end.

The Browns were reportedly looking at Redskins free-agent tight end Fred Davis, but nothing has materialized yet. Davis' focus these days is more on a court case than free-agency. Cleveland was also interested in Brandon Myers before he signed with the Giants on Sunday. Another potential target, Dustin Keller, signed with the Dolphins on Friday. The Browns have looked at Kellen Davis, but he has a total of 37 catches the past two seasons. Watson had 37 catches in his worst season for the Browns.

Other than Fred Davis, the rest of the top 10 free-agent tight ends are gone. The remaining tight ends are the likes of Dallas Clark (47 catches last year), David Thomas (11 catches last year) and Kevin Boss (three catches last season).

I'm not sure what the Browns' plan is for the tight end position, but they'll have to act soon. If not, they'll either have to address this position early in the draft or hope Cameron develops faster than last season.

I am so tired of Jamison Hensley. He has really gone off the deep end since he realized his Ravens will be dismantled.

At least he didn't suggest we make an offer on Pitta who would make the Ravens due a 2nd-round pick (or in our case, since we don't have one, our 1st round pick.)

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Cleveland was supposed to address this position in free agency because the team isn't ready to turn to unproven Jordan Cameron. The options in free agency are now very limited at tight end.

Ok, this could be true,, I don't know. The real question is this, how does he know that they aren't ready to turn to Jordan Cameron? He showed flashes, maybe Turner who loves TE's and Chud who does also, looked at tape and said,, hey, we can make this guy better.

Isn't that just as possible?

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Cleveland was supposed to address this position in free agency because the team isn't ready to turn to unproven Jordan Cameron. The options in free agency are now very limited at tight end.

Ok, this could be true,, I don't know. The real question is this, how does he know that they aren't ready to turn to Jordan Cameron? He showed flashes, maybe Turner who loves TE's and Chud who does also, looked at tape and said,, hey, we can make this guy better.

Isn't that just as possible?

Very Possible ... Cameron looked good when playing he has size and showed very good hands when used ... JMHO

Both Freeney and Abraham visiting the Broncos

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because the team isn't ready to turn to unproven Jordan Cameron.

First off this Bozo just made this one up...yes, the fact is Jordan Cameron is unproven. But he don't know DIDDLY what this team is ready or not ready to do.

TE isn't the most difficult position in the world. We might have one of the best environment for a young TE...also he totally ignored the fact that we did sign a Young TE very similar to Cameron in youth n being unproven. Of course Chud coached him n knows his abilities.

I do think if there was not a big time EARLY run on TEs probably we would be in a hunt for a veteran. But so we draft one there seems to be a hefty quantity of late 2nd to 5th round TEs with not much separating them. But Kasa probably top of the list although no more a secret. Hit coach is now our TE coach

Who knows we could always get stuck with a kid like Sims or Toilolo. So we go with the Yutes with - TE routes are not that complicated. I think we can say we got a pretty decent coaching staff that can develop TEs...So if that is all this Bozo has on us...

JMHO

yeah, EO, that's what struck me..

losing Ben Watson is the best this guy could come up with?

Bears announced the team is moving forward without Brian Urlacher. Some team that runs a 4-3 will want him and, IMO, get 2-3 serviceable years from him:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...h-chicago-bears

I'm hearing Reed to Houston is done.

Damn the Ravens are going to be different next year

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Bears announced the team is moving forward without Brian Urlacher. Some team that runs a 4-3 will want him and, IMO, get 2-3 serviceable years from him:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...h-chicago-bears

He's one of those players where it's gonna be weird seeing him in a different uni.

If healthy, he's still a great option. The Bears numbers the last few years have been really bad when he's gone down.

I really hope Jay Cutler is ready to score 20-30 points to win games, because that is coming. Especially in that division.

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I'm hearing Reed to Houston is done.

Damn the Ravens are going to be different next year

Looking that way - love it as both a texans and browns fan!

According to Joseph Person of the Charlotte Observer, Munnerlyn’s deal with Carolina is for one year. The Bears had also offered Munnerlyn a one-year contract, Person reported on Wednesday.

Munnerlyn started 11 games for the Panthers in 2012, notching 61 tackles. He returned both of his interceptions for touchdowns. He took over for the injured Chris Gamble, whom Carolina released earlier in the offseason.

Munnerlyn, who ranks No. 91 on PFT’s Free Agent Hot 100, does not turn 25 until April, placing him on the younger side for an unrestricted free agent.

In addition, the Panthers have reached agreement on a one-year deal with Raiders free agent safety Mike Mitchell, Person reported. Mitchell told the Observer he will compete to start at strong safety. Mitchell racked up 41 tackles in 16 games for Oakland last season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

Bummer. I fully expected we'd sign him.

I really don't "understand" the "plan" for the CB position...let's see what we have

1. Browns needing at least 1 CB, def need a starting outside option
2. FA class full of CBs in their prime
3. Browns having tons of money to spend
4. FA class being MUCH cheaper than anticipated

By now, there are no starting CB options left who are under 30yo....so, what's the plan? Why go into the draft with such a big need, when CB was arguably the easiest and value-cheapest position to fix in FA this offseason? Who are the "starters" left? Nnamdi? Winfield? Grimes? DeA.Hall? Bring back Sheldon?

Same goes for FS...what's the plan? Rhodes? Mikell? M.Williams? All these guys are weill over 30yo

I wasn't big on Captain Munnerlyn, but he signed a 1 year deal, so it wouldn't have hurt us going forward if we could have landed him. Same goes for many of the free agents out there now. Many guys will go for 1 or 2 year deals at this point. Immediate help, easy to get off the payroll.

Cap-Paranoia is a valid excuse for skipping on 5 year deals, absolutely. But I never bought it from H&H when we were $10 million under and there were 1-2 year options. I'm sorry, I don't buy into the Cap Fear when there are 1 year options. I'm not sure if we're done or not, we shall see.

Here's what Haslam said:

"We're not going 13-3...We had a lot of cap space. We used about half of it. That was on purpose. Next year, we’ll probably use most of the rest of it. We want to be very disciplined and not end up in a bind in two years. We feel good about the moves we’ve made this off-season. Now, we need to have a really good draft.”

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=14561

Heckert never valued the FS position, nor recognized that Brown was getting older. He chose to draft multiple RBs and QBs high in the draft. The guy truly was a genius.

But let's bash the new regime because they haven't filled both of those glaring holes in 3 weeks. That's the ticket.

I can only assume we are still in the hunt for Grimes??? He hasn't signed yet? I'm guessing we hold Grimes much higher than others on the list. We will not move on n sign another as long as Grimes and/or his agent is saying we are definitely in the hunt still. Just guessing - I don't think we designate a need n then go out n OVER SPEND on just anyone so we can say Phew ok got that covered.

Note: I said from the get go that we would be getting a FA CB so I hear ya just I don't think these CBs have designated us as a place to be. Team, State Tax, Turnover of System...whatever the reason or combo of. Only Grimes has come in for a visit n that did smell so much like a Thank You So Much - Don't Call Us We Will Now Use Your Offer As Leverage In Our Negotiations.

Free Safety...I wanted the kid from Buffalo - that came off the table quick...but I haven't seen them put much interest in acquiring a FA FS - Possibly they have assessed Young, Gipson, Hagg n Ward as good enough not to OVERPAY in FA market.

They also have an obvious plan. That they did not wish to acquire band-aids (aged last legged good players) they told us n have kept to their word.

But I don't see a FS urgency from them. I also see them picking just a few candidates for CB n most of them signed elsewhere without coming here???

So we build this through the draft n don't FA just anyone (thank goodness) adding good pieces that fit n not too many at one time. Sometimes I see our fans going Gimme Gimme Gimme - like a child in a candy shop. If we give in all the fans would get from that is one big STOMACH ACHE. I see we got a plan n sticking to it.

JMHO

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Here's what Haslam said:

...We had a lot of cap space. We used about half of it. That was on purpose. Next year, we’ll probably use most of the rest of it. We want to be very disciplined and not end up in a bind in two years. We feel good about the moves we’ve made this off-season. Now, we need to have a really good draft.”

I can buy into that. The FA signings were solid in my opinion, and we seemingly used good judgement by not going overboard. We may pick up another player or two in the next "round" of FA and with who we draft, we should be in good shape.

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Heckert never valued the FS position, nor recognized that Brown was getting older. He chose to draft multiple RBs and QBs high in the draft. The guy truly was a genius.

But let's bash the new regime because they haven't filled both of those glaring holes in 3 weeks. That's the ticket.

Are we being sensitive again this morning, huh? Bashing? You bash the last regime at every turn even when they're not the center of the discussion and this post is perfect proof for that. Your "agenda" detector is very sensitive and YOU'RE actually the one who ends up making it a agenda debate to begin with...weren't you the one who said to move on? Yet all I see you is bash the old regime when someone dares to question ANYTHING what's going on right now....as if the perceived shortcomings of the old regime somehow make this regime look better. This is a "questionable" argument anyway I look at this. We can debate all day long if Heckert had the same type of value at FS and CB in his FA classes (rethorical question, he hadn't...Eric freaking Wright got a 8mil a season contract, remember? We could have landed K.Lewis AND Munnerlyn for that money), but the fact is, it doesn't matter anymore since they are gone, right? So why are you so quick to bring them up and bash them to apologize for this regime? What's the point? Me thinks you have more agenda in your belly than you care to admit....I don't know what fights, with what posters you had over at the old board, but it wasn't with me....so next time you jump on me on anything that "questions" this FO, keep in mind that I was pretty happy with the start of FA....I call em like I see them and right now I have every right to question their non moves at DB in a very deep and relatively cheap DB-class...it doesn't get much better than that.

Weren't you also the one that said we need strong DB play since we will be attacking up front? What ever happened to that opinion? Guess you forgot about it while opening up an agenda battle where there was none instead of "talking football"...grab a mirror Vers, quick

Agreed, Eo. I especially wanted to focus on the tail end of this post, because I think it touched a huge factor. Simply coaching. We have some coaches in this group who seem to be able to develop talent. Cameron may be unproven, certainly had little chance to be developed under the offense as Shurm called it.
I think he is physically talented enough; if used right, and coached up, he might be a solid weapon. The tradeoff I see is coaching up the youngsters versus using vets. We can do both. This "slow FA" with this FO may indicate confidence in the coaches brought in. In a way, building through the draft is a way to go versus buying overpriced vets, something we have seen fail a bunch. But a huge difference maker is coaching up what you have and utilizing their strengths to win. Norv is great at that.

What a pickup this could be. A solid transition guy, vet presence, lockerrom, goal line, and full time in front seven perhaps. This was a shocker to me, but so was Dawson.

NRTU, Bard.

I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:

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The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.

Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...

Sensitive? LMAO-----I was playing w/you. I would say that you are the one who is sensitive.

And I do have an agenda. We all do. The difference is I admit it.

I couldn't stand The Big Show. Thought he was a phony who stole money. I don't think Heckert was a buffoon, but I sure as heck don't think he was as great as most people around here claim. I am thrilled they are gone. I won't miss seeing multiple picks on RBs, QBs, and WRs in the first few rounds of the draft. I won't miss the Usama Youngs of the world.

I don't know if the new regime is going to be successful or not. I don't see how they could do any worse, but you never know. I am of the opinion it is pretty early in the process to make a definitive judgement either way. They haven't even had a draft yet? They haven't even played one single game yet. They haven't played one season yet. And they sure as heck haven't had THREE FREAKING YEARS!!!

So yeah.....I do have an agenda. That agenda is that I think it is more than unfair to blast the current regime and act like the previous regime was so effective. And, I really don't give a rat's butt if you have a problem w/that.

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So yeah.....I do have an agenda. That agenda is that I think it is more than unfair to blast the current regime and act like the previous regime was so effective. And, I really don't give a rat's butt if you have a problem w/that.

...and where in my post you freaked out about did I "act like the previous regime was so effective"? It was all about NOW, yet YOU made it an agenda battle...for whatever reasons, to cover up their shortcomings or whatever...all I know is that you did EXACTLY what you lambast people for, so I called you out on that. Taste your own medicine

No problem on disagreeing about something or someone (Heckert), but I do think it's somewhat funny how you phrased your critique....drafting QB, RB and WR high? How about we talk about the players? Oh, and I never heard before that a GM gets trashed for taking a QB high.....that's where you have to draft them when you don't have one, that's common sense. We already know what both of us think about Weeden and McCoy, we will see.
As for RB, I was upset when we drafted TRich, same with McCoy, so I'm not a complete Heckert homer, I agree there...as for WR: Gordon and Little are keepers and already have done more than Robo and Massa in their whole careers. I was skeptical about both WR picks, but at the end, they look solid now with huge uspide left...their floor is much higher today and their ceiling is still very high. How many 2nd rounders do you know who you can say that about after 1-2 years?

Back to DBs though, as it pertains to the here and now: so what is actually your opinion on not signing any DB?...regime apologetics aside

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I really don't "understand" the "plan" for the CB position...let's see what we have

1. Browns needing at least 1 CB, def need a starting outside option
2. FA class full of CBs in their prime
3. Browns having tons of money to spend
4. FA class being MUCH cheaper than anticipated

By now, there are no starting CB options left who are under 30yo....so, what's the plan? Why go into the draft with such a big need, when CB was arguably the easiest and value-cheapest position to fix in FA this offseason? Who are the "starters" left? Nnamdi? Winfield? Grimes? DeA.Hall? Bring back Sheldon?

Same goes for FS...what's the plan? Rhodes? Mikell? M.Williams? All these guys are weill over 30yo

What we don't know is what they think of those on the team already.

Did Horton look at tape and say,, hey, this guy here, if we coach him up, he can be outstanding?

And there is still the draft and cut downs. It's not over by a mile yet.

Exciting Borwns news !!

Per roto:

Free agent TE Kellen Davis will visit the Browns Thursday.
New coach Rob Chudzinski's hunt for tight ends continues. If Davis does come aboard, it would be a best-case scenario for the fantasy prospects of intriguing ex-basketball player Jordan Cameron. Davis is a blocker at 6'7/267 that showed stones for hands during his doomed 2012 season in Chicago.

I'm having Robert Royal flashes

FWIW, Bears fans are still partying for finally gotten rid of Davis

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NRTU, Bard.

I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:

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The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.

Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...

Didn't that happen here after DA backed into the Pro Bowl? Savage heard rumors of some other team making an offer on DA so he resigned him quickly.

I don't know too much on Davis but would be interested to hear how he compares to Alex Smith in regards to blocking....

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I don't know too much on Davis but would be interested to hear how he compares to Alex Smith in regards to blocking....

That's what I was thinking. I liked Smith as a 3rd tight end. Great blocking, Thought he was fairly crafty in the passing game, though not thrown to often.

One of the things I watched when I went back through the All-22 film was just how good the "blocking specialist" Alex Smith really was.

He wasn't very good. Below-average is what he really is.

Last year the Browns had arguably the worst set of TE's in the league in terms of blocking prowess. Watson and Cameron are just-flat bad blockers.

Davis isn't an exciting player as a receiver but as a blocking #2 or #3 TE he'd be an immediate upgrade.

Here's a DE/OLB (age 26) I've been intrigued by.

Victor Butler visiting the Saints

Don't think Smith was a "specialist" as you just coined but if we aren't re-signing Smith, and are looking at a questionable receiving TE, I am interested to know how the two compared.

It looks like the Kellen Davis project didn't work in Chicago. They are probably pissed they traded Olsen because of Davis' possibility only to sign Bennett a couple of weeks ago. Three starting TEs in three years- that sounds like our QB situation.

Maybe the coaches are intrigued by Cameron or a trade down for someone like Eifert is being thrown around.

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NRTU, Bard.

I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:

Quote:

The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.

Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...

Well, it's not funny to me... but then, nothing is funny to me.

We were probably going to carry 4 TE in Norv's/Chud's offense. 2 will be blockers and 2 will be better receivers.

We would have a receiving TE, and a pair of blocking TE. (assuming we sign Davis) That's 3/4 of the way there ..... and I would expect that we would add one more in the draft.

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Heckert never valued the FS position, nor recognized that Brown was getting older. He chose to draft multiple RBs and QBs high in the draft. The guy truly was a genius.

But let's bash the new regime because they haven't filled both of those glaring holes in 3 weeks. That's the ticket.

Signed Patterson and drafted Skrine and Wade. He didn't completely ignore the position.

You say he didn't value the FS position. I say there were never any FSs of value available. He got Young on the cheap, who was a guy some though had talent but was buried on the depth chart at NO.

Not everyone gets to have an Ed Reed or even a Jarius Byrd.

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NRTU, Bard.

I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:

Quote:

The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.

Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...

Well, it's not funny to me... but then, nothing is funny to me.

never gets old.

I recall hearing something about Barnidge being under utilized as a receiver. Perhaps Cameron will be the pass catcher, Davis (if he signs) the blocker and Barnidge somewhere in the middle. That could still leave room to draft a TE, tho I would like to get a CB and FS, multiples if necessary. Perhaps another WR as well.

Quote:

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NRTU, Bard.

I just read this on PFT and thought it so hilariously ridiculous that I wanted to quote it:

Quote:

The Panthers were afraid the Browns were going to steal QB Derek Anderson away.

Maybe that's only funny to me, but I wanted to share just in case it wasn't...

Well, it's not funny to me... but then, nothing is funny to me.

never gets old.

I have been using that in my sig since he said it...yall beat me to it though LOL

I'm really disappointed we didn't make a play for Ed Reed. He could have stepped in immediately and been an upgrade for the next three years considering how awful we've been at that position. Probably one of the smartest players I've ever watched. His smarts will help offset the inevitable physical decline.

Maybe we made overtures and he declined because he didn't want to play in Cleveland. That would surprise me considering he's the only AFC North player that really ever treated Cleveland with class. But I could also see him wanting to play for a winner.

I just don't remember reading anything about us having interest and if we did, about him rebuffing us.

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I'm really disappointed we didn't make a play for Ed Reed. He could have stepped in immediately and been an upgrade for the next three years considering how awful we've been at that position. Probably one of the smartest players I've ever watched. His smarts will help offset the inevitable physical decline.

Maybe we made overtures and he declined because he didn't want to play in Cleveland. That would surprise me considering he's the only AFC North player that really ever treated Cleveland with class. But I could also see him wanting to play for a winner.

I just don't remember reading anything about us having interest and if we did, about him rebuffing us.

While I agree he could have helped us...From what I read Reed really dislikes the Browns...read a couple clippings of him bashing the Browns (mostly our QBs) pretty sure we were at the far bottom of his wish list...and like you said going to a contender played a big role in his mind

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...and where in my post you freaked out about did I "act like the previous regime was so effective"? It was all about NOW, yet YOU made it an agenda battle...for whatever reasons, to cover up their shortcomings or whatever...all I know is that you did EXACTLY what you lambast people for, so I called you out on that. Taste your own medicine

Wow, you used to be one of my favorite posters, but now you are more like mac, than anything else.

Did you like that? It was an attack. And all you have done in your last several replies to me? You don't like what I have to say, so you resort to personal attacks.

Look here, pal.........I don't give a damn what you think about me. If you wanna continue w/personal attacks designed to sway other poster's opinions of me, then take a freaking hike! Now, if you wanna talk football, then do so.

You got that, or do I need to be more direct?

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...and where in my post you freaked out about did I "act like the previous regime was so effective"? It was all about NOW, yet YOU made it an agenda battle...for whatever reasons, to cover up their shortcomings or whatever...all I know is that you did EXACTLY what you lambast people for, so I called you out on that. Taste your own medicine

Wow, you used to be one of my favorite posters, but now you are more like mac, than anything else.

Did you like that? It was an attack. And all you have done in your last several replies to me? You don't like what I have to say, so you resort to personal attacks.

Look here, pal.........I don't give a damn what you think about me. If you wanna continue w/personal attacks designed to sway other poster's opinions of me, then take a freaking hike! Now, if you wanna talk football, then do so.

You got that, or do I need to be more direct?

Be more direct!!

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....but now you are more like mac, than anything else.

Ouch! This place is getting brutal. No one deserves that.

LOL starting to look like the old Browns chat forum

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LOL starting to look like the old Browns chat forum

Took all of what...two weeks?

Versie, damnit, pay attention:

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Actually, I have mellowed somewhat. I'll be good. -Versatiledog

That was two weeks ago. Now take some damned blood-pressure medication...or a martini...and snap out of it. You trying to set a record for a veteran poster to get re-banned??

Dj, play nice.

The Ref's haven't hit the ban button yet, but for cripes sakes, you've already been put in timeout once this year. Why try for two?

If I can mellow out, you two can as well. Hell, the draft isn't even here yet. Save your energies for that, hehe.

Now, back to football...

Tim Couch sucks.

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LOL starting to look like the old Browns chat forum

I wonder why

and Vers, personal attacks? My posts are there for everyone to read and everone can see what YOU elect to respond to and what you keep evading. I did ask you TWICE about what you actually think about our DB situation (you know, that was what my 1st post was actually about), I answered to the QB, RB and WR situation you brought into the discussion, yet you never talked football and responded to other stuff, that, funny enough, YOU started talking about, that was all your choice, so please stop being a bully with a glass jaw. If your sensitive getting hit, don't dish out. If you dish out, better be prepared to catch some too. It's like in life, easy rule isn't it? Don't do to others, what you don't want other's to do to you. That's ethics 101, play by it instead of going all moral on everyone in every post you disagree with...play by your own rules for once, that's my point about the "how" of your argumentation

Back to the "what", the Browns:

I think our DB situation is worse off than at season's end and this FA was a perfect storm of opportunities (cap space, cheap, good, in their prime FAs) to get it fixed without going into the draft with as big of a need there, that's why I question this FO for their "plan" regarding the DB situation

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...I think our DB situation is worse off than at season's end

No question that it is, losing Sheldon, Dimitri, and it is young. However, I do believe the FO has a plan in place, just that they haven't put it into motion as yet. We will not go into next season with the lineup as it currently stands....

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...I think our DB situation is worse off than at season's end

No question that it is, losing Sheldon, Dimitri, and it is young. However, I do believe the FO has a plan in place, just that they haven't put it into motion as yet. We will not go into next season with the lineup as it currently stands....

Sure, we will either draft some DBs high that can play right away or sign some stop gap 30+yo FA starter, because that's all what's left. What we can't do anymore though is sign a starting CB in their prime for the mid/long term and that's what I would have liked to see and thus question the "plan". I'm not saying they're clueless, they sure have a plan in place for DB, but I'm not sure it's the smartest in terms of value.

If you want an attacking style of front 7, you absolutely NEED good coverage DBs and right now we only have one there in Haden. Ward is a great SS, but he's AVG in coverage, though he has improved a lot there. We still have neither instincts or athleticism at FS, that's a position Heckert undervalued and should have done a better job of stop gapping. We currently have no no2 CB and our depth guys should never play on the outside, as Skrine has shown that his upside is that of a decent slot CB, but not that of a no2/slot tweener (like Munnerlyn or Patterson pre-contract). That's why I wanted us to be player's for BOTH the no2 and slot/tweener positions, since you always have to account for injuries on a position 5 deep and with 3 starters in today's NFL...so, that would have pushed Skrine and Wade down to 4th and 5th CB. That would have been good depth and it was easily possible accomplishing that considering our cap and buyer's market. That's why I'm so disappointed that we filled neither with in their prime players....by default that means we either go stop gap vet or rooks. To me this looks like we backed ourselves unnecessarily into a corner regarding the CB position

In some ways I agree. The thing is we don't know what Horton thinks of the DB group. Maybe he thinks a guy like Skrine or Badamosi(sp) are going to rise.

The one thing to remember about top corners...they are like top QB's. The guys that are free aren't the really good ones. The really good ones never end up free. They get signed or tagged.

The difference between the really good ones and the good ones isn't much, until it plays out on the field. Then you see what that "isn't much" really means.

I understand what you mean and that's usually true for most FA classes, but this year's was much different, thus the price for those CBs was lower too. By all accounts guys like K.Lewis or C.Houston had very good season's as no2 starting CBs and they're 26 and 28yo respectively, Houston has started over 80 games in the NFL. They both hit FA and could have been signed...maybe we tried, but we never heard anything about us being involved

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so please stop being a bully with a glass jaw. If your sensitive getting hit, don't dish out. If you dish out, better be prepared to catch some too

Nah, that is not a personal attack. It's pure football.

The DBs? I haven't talked about them? Really?

Here is a copy of a post on made on March 15th, after people were complaining about the signings of Kruger and Bryant. In fact, I talked about this on a couple of posts, you know, BEFORE everyone else started focusing on the secondary. Here you go:

Quote:

Here:

If you wanna complain, perhaps you should switch your argument to this. You really expose your secondary when you attack so much. You better have corners who can cover and a FS who can roam the field. Yes, quick pressure will hide some problems in the secondary. However, there are going to be plenty of times the pressure won't get there. Our secondary is a huge weakness.

Haden is pretty good, but overrated by most. There are WRs who run away from him when they run crossing routes. Yes, those plays take time to develop, but he gives up those plays. I am not saying he is weak, but he is not quite as great as almost everyone says he is.

Our other corner is a huge question mark? It better not be Skrine or we are in trouble. We need a corner. BAD!

Ward is good in the run game. He will probably blitz a lot under Horton. He will make big plays. But, he is terrible in pass coverage. Some of the worst hips I have ever seen. Doesn't read well. Gets lost in space.

FS? We don't have one and this is the most glaring need on our team. Mike Adams is good enough for Denver, but not us. I am not saying he is great, but he is better than what we currently have. All I know is that we really need an upgrade here. I wanted Golston from SF so bad. Detroit just got Houston's FS. I hope we address this position.

Is that good enough for you?

Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo

Cool, so we actually agree on the DB situation...so what were those last posts all about?

Let's just drop it. I don't mind arguing. I think it is kinda funny. I think some posters enjoy seeing the arguments, but it appears that most don't like all the fighting.

Let's just try and talk football and be boring while doing it.

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Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?
feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo[/url]

OH. MY. GOD.

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Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo

lol why not?

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Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo

On the radio, it is being reported that the workout happened while Dawson had his final interview with Cleveland reporters yesterday.

I can't believe this....this has to be a joke.

If any of this is true, this deserves it's own thread.

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Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo

Hey they can try anyone out. And should. you can't find the gems unless you look at them.

It doesnt hurt anything to work out someone. We NEED help, why not think outside the box and let guys give it a go? Somewhere there is a diamond in the rough.

Saw the YouTube video, and it looked cool. This is just weird to me, but I gather other teams have tried him out as well.

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Saw the YouTube video, and it looked cool. This is just weird to me, but I gather other teams have tried him out as well.

see he is left foot?

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Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo

Sounds like something Grossi should have written on April 1st.

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Browns Workout Trick-shot Kicker Havard Rugland

TonyGrossi Per source, #Browns worked out video trickshot artist Havard Rugland of Norway today to replace Phil Dawson..Rugland is 6-2 and 245..

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/page.php?pt=grossi&id=151

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDwbjHV8jLo

Phil who?

Well we are in good hands...Lombardi is the best FG evaluator

I assume he is not in the draft n we can SIGN him as we type here! Why not - it doesn't mean he makes our final 53 Roster...but I wonder if he would do both...PUNT n KICK saving a Roster spot for another! Could be a special thing. Also would have our Back UP QB (Colt?) as the HOLDER the way I've always thought it should be!

JMHO Why NOT?

J/C

I posted this vid before as a suggestion to replace Phil but never thought they would look at him. Im glad they are.

Re: Phil Dawson to 49ers [Re: Versatile Dog]
#1022863 - Wed Mar 20 2013 10:29 AM
Reply Quote

Good luck Phil, you will be missed. our new kicker

http://www.youtube.com/v/jDwbjHV8jLo

J/K, but cool vid.

--------------------
Here we go again

Here's the thing that is ticking me off about the DBs and FA in general.

If it wasn't spelled out, it was pretty much implied that Haslam is one competitive SOB and the legacy of mediocrity was not only going to stop being tolerated, but we were going to see a quick turnaround with this group. We were pretty much told in no uncertain terms that the old regimes have no idea what they were doing, but this one will.

But I'm seeing the same approach and style with these guys that we've seen in the past. And now we have Haslam making a comment something to the effect of "it's not like we are 13-3 team ... " or something like that ... don't remember it exactly. I cannot tell you how infuriating reading that was. Guess it was harder than you thought, Jimmy boy?

While I have no issues with the dismissal of Holmgren and Shurmur, this new regime doesn't seem to be much different to me so far.

I think their mouths have written checks they won't be able to cash. They might get saved by Chud and Co. with the product on the field, and they will certainly be saved from the foundation that Heckert put in place ... while getting all the credit ... but what have they done so much different than those regimes in the past?

We were left to believe mediocrity was not to be tolerated and that the ship was going to be righted ... but then they preach the same build through the draft philosophy as the previous regime while being very dollar conscious in FA. Then we get double talk with the whole '13-3' thing.

I'm not preaching being irresponsible. I just see business as usual in Berea. Regime A, Regime, B, Regime C ... put masks on them. They are all the same.

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Why NOT?

From the looks of that vid, he would never miss a FG no matter where it was from, and he would always put his punts out at the one. Why not indeed!

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If it wasn't spelled out, it was pretty much implied that Haslam is one competitive SOB and the legacy of mediocrity was not only going to stop being tolerated, but we were going to see a quick turnaround with this group. We were pretty much told in no uncertain terms that the old regimes have no idea what they were doing, but this one will.

Yeah, it does kinda feel that way to a point doesn't it. but then I realize something, spending just to spend, doesn't get you out of the hole. In fact, it could very well put you in a bigger one.

So, being selective can be a good thing.

I also think there may be another plan that we don't see in the works. Like trading down our 1st rounder to pick up a 2nd this year and another next and maybe more.

I'm wondering if they are positioning themselves for the next draft where there is supposed to be another crop of good QB's. I mean just in case. And if Weeden works out, great, then they'll have an extra pick to fill another need elsewhere.

Yeah, sign him and draft Brad Wing and we'll have the most-unlikeable kicker-punter tandem in the league!

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J/C

I posted this vid before as a suggestion to replace Phil but never thought they would look at him. Im glad they are.

Re: Phil Dawson to 49ers [Re: Versatile Dog]
#1022863 - Wed Mar 20 2013 10:29 AM
Reply Quote

Good luck Phil, you will be missed. our new kicker

http://www.youtube.com/v/jDwbjHV8jLo

J/K, but cool vid.

That is some pretty cool kicking. It's pretty darn windy when he kicks those 5 50 yard Field goals. Glad to see them looking at him.

The PD says that they had him in for a visit, but that he doesn't fit the parameters of a free agent we would normally look at. He is 28, and I would bet that the team will look for a much younger guy they can keep for many years to come.

Plus, normally your kicker kicks off as well, and we have no idea how he would do helping to cover kickoffs. I do have to admit, though, that his ability to drop a placekick so precisely where he wants it is impressive, and would help with coverage immensely. That's a big plus.

However, I just read a blurb that another concern, besides age, is that he takes more than the 2-3 steps most place kickers take leading up to a FG try. That can be a problem as well.

I still get the feeling that the FO will pass on the guy.

Browns will interview Victor Butler

Link

"Butler will visit with the Browns on Monday, according to a source. The Browns beat out the Saints earlier in free agency as Cleveland outbid New Orleans to land highly sought linebacker Paul Kruger."

An update from MKC says it will be a Sunday interview.

Along with the other players already brought in, and players not re-signed, this team may end up being even younger than last year!

For the record...I'm not opposed to that at all.

Here's a couple things to consider....They've signed Kruger, Groves, and are bringing in Butler. Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought. Yes, Butler has been a reserve and we certainly need depth, but we are not being shy about OLBs. Also, maybe we aren't sold on the available OLB draft possibilities at #6.

Ok....a 28 year old kicker. So we'd only be able to keep him 12-14 years.

With Banner we would only be able to keep him for two years

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Yep, I agree LOL!

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Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought

Or maybe it has nothing to do with Sheard. Maybe they just want depth.. Nothing, not a thing wrong with that.

Remember, when asked about Sheard,, Chud didn't skip a beat, he said he'll play OLB.. No hesitation whatsoever.

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Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought

Or maybe it has nothing to do with Sheard. Maybe they just want depth.. Nothing, not a thing wrong with that.

Remember, when asked about Sheard,, Chud didn't skip a beat, he said he'll play OLB.. No hesitation whatsoever.

Of course he said he'll play OLB. Where else would he play in this 3-4? He never said he'd start.

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Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought

Or maybe it has nothing to do with Sheard. Maybe they just want depth.. Nothing, not a thing wrong with that.

Remember, when asked about Sheard,, Chud didn't skip a beat, he said he'll play OLB.. No hesitation whatsoever.

Of course he said he'll play OLB. Where else would he play in this 3-4? He never said he'd start.

Ok you wanna go with the conspiracy factor,, be my guest. but before you do that, go back and find that presser where it was discussed, take his words IN CONTEXT..

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Yep, I agree LOL!

I guess pointing to the Norwegian phenom's Twitter page isn't a legit source. LOL

Butler would be a great signing. He has played part time in a 3-4 previously and has had some success. He will come cheap and give us depth.

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Ok....a 28 year old kicker. So we'd only be able to keep him 12-14 years.

Just saying that he doesn't fit the normal profile for Banner.

Further, evidently he has an extra step in his FG kicking technique that he would need to lose somehow. That extra step could be the difference between getting a kick blocked, or not.

Butler was my number 1 FA target. Even over Kruger. Hope he signs. But if he does I see us trading Sheard for a late 1st early 2nd round pick.

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While I have no issues with the dismissal of Holmgren and Shurmur, this new regime doesn't seem to be much different to me so far.

I'd have agreed with this BEFORE the hiring of coaching staff & free agency moves. After that, I have to say they're light years apart.

The old guys didn't do squat in free agency but the new guys get criticized for not impulse shopping for reaches and lateral moves after starting out super aggressive and nabbing the guys they wanted most....

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Browns will interview Victor Butler

Link

"Butler will visit with the Browns on Monday, according to a source. The Browns beat out the Saints earlier in free agency as Cleveland outbid New Orleans to land highly sought linebacker Paul Kruger."

An update from MKC says it will be a Sunday interview.

Along with the other players already brought in, and players not re-signed, this team may end up being even younger than last year!

For the record...I'm not opposed to that at all.

Here's a couple things to consider....They've signed Kruger, Groves, and are bringing in Butler. Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought. Yes, Butler has been a reserve and we certainly need depth, but we are not being shy about OLBs. Also, maybe we aren't sold on the available OLB draft possibilities at #6.

From PFT

Victor Butler leaves Saints without contract

Posted by Mike Florio on March 22, 2013, 10:36 PM EDT For a change, the Butler didn’t do it.

Specifically, free-agent linebacker Victor Butler didn’t sign a contract with the Saints. According to Larry Holder of the New Orleans Times-Picayune, Butler concluded his visit to Louisiana without becoming a member of the local NFL team.

Per Holder, Butler will be visiting the Browns on Monday. Last week, the Browns outbid the Saints for the services of linebacker Paul Kruger.

Butler also has visited the Steelers.

The Saints are in the process of retooling their defensive personnel to accommodate the switch to a 3-4 defense.

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Butler was my number 1 FA target. Even over Kruger. Hope he signs. But if he does I see us trading Sheard for a late 1st early 2nd round pick.

Why would we trade Sheard prior to the draft? If he has any potential at all, I would think that we would first see how he performs in the 3-4, and then decide whether or not to keep, or trade, him.

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Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought

Or maybe it has nothing to do with Sheard. Maybe they just want depth.. Nothing, not a thing wrong with that.

Remember, when asked about Sheard,, Chud didn't skip a beat, he said he'll play OLB.. No hesitation whatsoever.

Of course he said he'll play OLB. Where else would he play in this 3-4? He never said he'd start.

Ok you wanna go with the conspiracy factor,, be my guest. but before you do that, go back and find that presser where it was discussed, take his words IN CONTEXT..

No conspiracy at all. What other position would he be conducive in the 3-4 beyond OLB? You tell me...

If we sign Butler, he becomes the 3rd OLb signed in free agency. I would take that as a lack of confidence that Sheard can transition into a 3-4 OLb.

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Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought

Or maybe it has nothing to do with Sheard. Maybe they just want depth.. Nothing, not a thing wrong with that.

Remember, when asked about Sheard,, Chud didn't skip a beat, he said he'll play OLB.. No hesitation whatsoever.

Of course he said he'll play OLB. Where else would he play in this 3-4? He never said he'd start.

Ok you wanna go with the conspiracy factor,, be my guest. but before you do that, go back and find that presser where it was discussed, take his words IN CONTEXT..

I just find it hilarious how H & H and Shurmur preached depth as the key to winning team, yet they never signed anyone to add any freakin depth. They depended solely on the draft and rookies to provide depth. How long were they planning on taking to field a winning team, 7 years?

Victor Butler would be a great depth guy and I would be surprised if he left his visit to Cleveland without a contract.

Now we're finally getting to see how REAL organizations do business!

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Maybe they aren't as sold on Sheard as an OLB as many initially thought

Or maybe it has nothing to do with Sheard. Maybe they just want depth.. Nothing, not a thing wrong with that.

Remember, when asked about Sheard,, Chud didn't skip a beat, he said he'll play OLB.. No hesitation whatsoever.

Of course he said he'll play OLB. Where else would he play in this 3-4? He never said he'd start.

Sheard could end up thriving in the 3-4 as an OLB. He has flashed some great pass rushing ability and he is stout against the run.

In the 3-4, you see LB's rushing the line of scrimmage before the snap in anticipation. Shears starting at the line of scrimmage from a standing position could make him an absolute LETHAL pass rushing threat as opposed to having to start from the down position.

I would say it's more of an insurance policy. If Sheard doesn't get a handle on playing outside linebacker we aren't screwed.

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Ok....a 28 year old kicker. So we'd only be able to keep him 12-14 years.

Given your math, we could have kept Phil another 2-4 years......

Bucs trying to trade former Cleveland corner, Eric Wright, after one season. Poor Eric:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...s-trading-block

Possibly

I never understood why they signed him to that huge contract in the first place.

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Bucs trying to trade former Cleveland corner, Eric Wright, after one season. Poor Eric:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...s-trading-block

Makes you wonder if there are some off the field issues going on behind the scenes that caused this...

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Bucs trying to trade former Cleveland corner, Eric Wright, after one season. Poor Eric:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...s-trading-block

Didn't he have some fairly major issues last year? A DUI, and a failed drug test IIRC. He definitely has some issues that have to be a concern?

He's a decent quality CB ..... not a top guy, but not a bum either. he knows how to cover and how to intercept passes. He may have some value .... but he had enough issues that the Bucs that they took the steps to void the guarantees in his contract. I seem to recall hearing something about him having issues with coaching as well.

I would probably take him with a smaller deal ..... but wouldn't invest top dollar in him.