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He's making just a pinch more than Kaluka Maiava  I hope we get the worst kicker and worst punter in the league. I hope we are forced to go for it on at least 50% of our fourth downs. There are few things more upsetting to me than having two successful drives to start a game and ending up with 6 points. I don't suspect we'll employ such a strategy, but it would make me ridiculously happy and proud if we did.
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We lost a 38 year old kicker. That is not a huge mistake.
I repeat: PHIL DAWSON IS A KICKER.
The difference between a perennial contender and a bad organization is not field goals made or missed, it is touchdowns scored or prevented. You should stop focusing on what is not that important and start hoping the team improves in a meaningful way.
Ahh i agree, but what if you cant score any way but field goals? That does change the equation.
Nah, man, no equation is changed.
If you can't score touchdowns, you won't win football games regularly, no matter if your kicker is the best or worst in the league.
Worry about positions that affect the game in more meaningful ways before going nuts about a kicker.
No doubt about that! I am sick of this team relying on the field goal kicker all the time! That's what I hated most about that idiot Shurmur. He played for the field goal all the time. You will not win a dang thing playing scared like that!
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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I wish Dawson all the best because he was probably the best kick I've ever seen in my lifetime. The front office better know what they're doing. It's going to get tired really fast if someone comes in and starts missing field goals left and right. 84.9% for field goals in Cleveland stadium. Wow, what a class act and super player. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Dawson did not wish to be here long term. I am not admonishing him or anything for that but if he wanted to be here...between those 3 off seasons he would have signed a long term contract.
You can't sign a contract that the front office refuses to offer you.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I hope we get the worst kicker and worst punter in the league.
 Why even say that??? Cutting the nose to spite the face???
GM - I find it hard to believe that in those 3 off seasons that he was never offered a long term contract. Or do you mean this go round?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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I'd like to see what it's like going from an offense that I felt at times was giving up because field goals were a sure thing (Certainly Shurmur did that at times with his stupid punting), to an offense that knows for a fact it's kicker is completely incompetent and is forced to fail or succeed. I think with a lousy offense sometimes when things are going right and you're in scoring position it is better to take a risk on 4th down than to get that guarenteed field goal. Knowing that you can't be sure when you'll have the chance for a touchdown again. This is something I would actually like to see happen. But I don't know how to phrase it without looking and sounding like a moron
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DAMNIT this is the first HUGE mistake from our front office (outside of giving Lombardi a job) This one will come back to bite us in the butt. SOB this ticks me off. Phil did nothing but bust his butt, and do whatever the coaching staff wanted him to do. Our last front office and the current one need a swift kick to the head for this screwup. Phil buddy I wish you nothing but the best during the rest of your career, and if the Browns can not pull off a miricle and win the Super Bowl this year, then I pray you can finally get your first Super Bowl ring. You deserve it buddy.
GM...your response mirrors my first reaction to the news that Dawson was gone...but with the following qualifier...did Banner offer Phil a contract?
I will be pissed about Phil leaving, if I find out, our front office didn't even try to sign him.
If we offered Phil a decent contract and didn't try to low ball him...and he turned us down, preferring to move on...I'm fine with the whole deal and will thank the front office for their efforts and wish Phil the best of luck.
But if we find out this front office turned their back on Dawson, not even trying to sign him...that will be a huge mistake by this front office...a mistake that will cost the team wins.
Now it's up to this front office to find a kicker and hope he can come close to filling Dawson's shoes.
Thanks for everything, Phil...especially those game winning kicks !
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I don't know if we offered Phil a deal or not. I hope we tried.
But I can't blame him if he turned us down for San Fran. Great city, better weather, he knows the S/T coach, Super Bowl contender. And even if it was a completely different regime, I know he was upset that we kept using the franchise tag when he wanted the big deal.
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Got it  I would hope for that ballsy character to be natural with Chud n not forced on him due to ineptitude. I see an attack D being built...usually there is sparring establishing the flow of the game...I do see a good Punter being a viable part of that.
I would like to have a competent FG kicker not for those 3 pts. during the seesaw of a game...but for those NUMEROUS occasions where it will be the end of a game n we need a 45-50 yarder to WIN with 4 seconds left in a game where we are losing by 2 pts. If we suck all that really doesn't matter cause we are not in that position often. But if we get better like I hope we are...we will be in that position more often.
JMHO got to get that punter n kicker n not through the draft when you only got 6 picks.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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NRTU.
There's some vehement anger in the back-end of this thread. It's over a 38-year old kicker who appeared to have long been ready to move out of Cleveland.
I watched the show on NFL Network which featured the Browns. They spent some serious time in the last episode on Dawson. He didn't at all appear to be a man who really wanted to stay.
From a personal standpoint there isn't a kicker in the NFL I'd rather have than Dawson, but the sad reality is that he's nearing the end of the line. He signed a 1-year deal for $2.25 million. That should tell everyone exactly what they needed to know about the market for a 38-year old kicker. Teams know he wasn't going to have another year like he did in 2012 as it's virtually impossible to back that kind of season up with another like it.
Dawson had a great run here but it was time for it to end. Business is business. Kicker's can be found anywhere and are largely interchangeable. There are much greater issues on this team than worrying about a kicker who won't be in the league in a couple of seasons.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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There's some vehement anger in the back-end of this thread. It's over a 38-year old kicker who appeared to have long been ready to move out of Cleveland.
Really? Vehement anger?
I see one guy that wants to gopher-it on every 4th down and a long list of people that wish Phil good luck on his decision to go to San Francisco.
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Change in regime was the nail in the coffin, so to speak.
pretty much ditto to everything you said except for the above. The Nail in the coffin was simply we ran out of Franchise Tags for him.
2011 - Tagged n no Long term contract signed.
2012 - Tagged n no Long Term contract signed...mandatory 20% raise.
2013 - Option to Tag but 3rd year in a row being Tagged would mean avg. Salary of top 5 salary of any player in the NFL not limited to Kickers.
So Dawson would be making top 5 QB avg. Pretty obvious to me - Dawson did not wish to be here long term. I am not admonishing him or anything for that but if he wanted to be here...between those 3 off seasons he would have signed a long term contract. Good luck n Good Health.
I am counting on the Murphy Law theory though! 
I'd have to agree with that I suppose. I think Phil wanted to be here. I think he wanted to be a part of things when it changed for the better, but one gets tired of waiting. I think had he been offered a fair contract from Heckert, and the old regime, he would have taken it in a heartbeat.
When I said the change to the new regime was the nail in the coffin, I was referring to the fact that Banner doesn't keep the old guys around, and if the deal didn't get done under the previous group of brass, it certainly wasn't going to get done with Banner and Guy Lombardo running things.
We'll just have to hope and pray that.....
a. the new offense makes a kicker an afterthough, not a necessity.
b. the kicker that is brought in is 75-80% of what Phil was ... leader, captain, team player, etc., as well as a kicker who can perform when the elements get nasty.
Personally, if we're drafting a kicker in the late rounds, I've seen 3 kickers mentioned : from Nebraska, Florida, and Florida State. I'd take the kick from Nebraska just based on the similarity of winter football. I lived in Nebraska for 5 long years ... The entire state is like a wind tunnel. It gets frigid. If the kid can kick in Lincoln, he can kick in Cleveland. 
Still a long way to go till we start the season ........
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I hate that we lost pretty much the only person to put points on the board,but if this is what Phil wanted,I'm happy for him.He deserves better than what the Browns have given him.Good luck Phil.You will be missed here in Cleveland.
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I hope your ready to be mad Mac because the Browns didn't make him an offer.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...t_most-commentsThe Browns -- looking to sign players in their mid-20s -- did have a discussion with Dawson's agent, Neil Cornrich, about a new contract. But ultimately the club decided to move on without making a formal offer,
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...t_most-comments
The Browns -- looking to sign players in their mid-20s -- did have a discussion with Dawson's agent, Neil Cornrich, about a new contract. But ultimately the club decided to move on without making a formal offer,
Very sorry to lose him but he's 38 years old.. While still very very good, at some point, players AND teams have to move on... I'm bummed but I understand it and wish Dawson well.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'd like to see what it's like going from an offense that I felt at times was giving up because field goals were a sure thing (Certainly Shurmur did that at times with his stupid punting), to an offense that knows for a fact it's kicker is completely incompetent and is forced to fail or succeed.
I think with a lousy offense sometimes when things are going right and you're in scoring position it is better to take a risk on 4th down than to get that guarenteed field goal. Knowing that you can't be sure when you'll have the chance for a touchdown again.
This is something I would actually like to see happen. But I don't know how to phrase it without looking and sounding like a moron
King you are right. I want that too. And WhatCan, im with you too, BUT kickers do win games-just ask SF when Akers couldnt hit anything-now you can make the point that that forced them to use Colin K. more-but Weeden is not Colin K.
We all just dont want kickers to be our primary offense. But having a guy like Phil always made the field shorter.
SF made a good strategic choice-they needed and were willing to pay for that need more than we were. Time will tell who was the wiser. I would have liked one more year of Phil myself, i think it would have won us some close games that we wont win, not many, but if you are 8-8 vs 10-6 that could be the difference between playoffs and sitting.
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)
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Word on the inside is that - Dawson wanted to stay here. But he wanted a long term contract. 2011 tagged wanted a 5 year contract. 2012 tagged wanted a 4 year contract. This year wanted a 3 year contract.
That doesn't spell he wanted OUT OF HERE...just stability. I don't understand this cause we got the $$$ room.
We all know if the length of contract is too long n he shows signs of downfall in skills he would get CUT/Released whatever you wish to call it.
Age...he's a freaking kicker. He is in great shape n conditioning. His leg strength actually seems to have increased over the last 3-4 seasons rather than diminish. Its THE ONE POSITION that has a history of "AGE" in the NFL. Add in the conditioning n science behind it in now a days which include the KICKER once let alone to do what they pleased. Age??? what about the experience of playing here at our weather n stadium knowing the wind having like 100 different shoes n cleats for our weather including IN GAME Changes?
Definitely a miss calculation by Banner...he made this decision on PAPER n didn't look at the football end of it. A Mistake by Banner. Now the only factor will be who we bring in to take over the kicking...This smells of a draft pick being used! We got 2 6th rounders if we use one there I guess ok...odds of 2 6rh rounders making our roster will be very tough. But I would rather have us take Lalich.
I guess this is why we aren't signing/showing interest in the great punter let go by the Raiders. Who were struggling for $$$ in Cap Room.
JMHO - Lombardi's best evaluation skills is kicker so I guess we are in good hands...too much PAPER n not enough BROWN in this decision!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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assuming these reports are accurate, this shows the front office has zero urgency in winning NOW. They have no problems losing a couple of winnable games this season in order to save $2-3 million.
Plenty of games come down to 3 or 6 points. Some of our most memorable and enjoyable wins have come courtesy of Dawson.
It would be different if we were right at the salary cap and had to make a tough decision. Not the case. At all. It is what it is. Hope we find another Pro-Bowl kicker.
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Word on the inside is that - Dawson wanted to stay here. But he wanted a long term contract. 2011 tagged wanted a 5 year contract. 2012 tagged wanted a 4 year contract. This year wanted a 3 year contract.
Then why did he sign a one year deal that quickly if he wanted a longer contract?
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Word on the inside is that - Dawson wanted to stay here. But he wanted a long term contract. 2011 tagged wanted a 5 year contract. 2012 tagged wanted a 4 year contract. This year wanted a 3 year contract.
Then why did he sign a one year deal that quickly if he wanted a longer contract?
One guess- maybe that's all he got.
Tackles are tackles.
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no, above all else, he wants to win.
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Word on the inside is that - Dawson wanted to stay here. But he wanted a long term contract. 2011 tagged wanted a 5 year contract. 2012 tagged wanted a 4 year contract. This year wanted a 3 year contract.
Then why did he sign a one year deal that quickly if he wanted a longer contract?
One guess- maybe that's all he got.
It seems like he wanted to play for them, since we didn't try to get him back, Brad Seely is the special teams coach, and the Niners are coming off a Super Bowl appearance after just missing the year before. I don't think that he looked around very hard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The irony is he made $3.8 million last year.
I wonder if San Fran (or another contender) would have traded us a late-round pick for him at the trade deadline last year?
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If he was going to sign a one year contract...no stability. He decided on the ONE SB bound team that had a need in FG. Why? for the Ring, next important thing to him besides stability. Also familiarity with their ST coach.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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If he was going to sign a one year contract...no stability. He decided on the ONE SB bound team that had a need in FG. Why? for the Ring, next important thing to him besides stability. Also familiarity with their ST coach.
"I'm probably going to be involved with football even after my playing days are over," he said. "The opportunity to sit under a guy once again and learn more football from him. ... I think that'll help with the transition. I'm really looking forward to working with him again."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/03/former_cleveland_browns_kicker.html
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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J/C http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x171164651/Phil-Dawson-wishes-Browns-nothing-but-the-bestPhil Dawson wishes Browns nothing but the best By Steve Doerschuk CantonRep.com staff writer Phil Dawson blew into Cleveland as the rookie who beat Pittsburgh. Midway through his 14-year marathon on Lake Erie, he basically beat Baltimore with a 51-yard bank shot. Aging and on his way out, he boomed a barrage of 50-plus field goals as if they were PATs. He claimed amnesia when he talked about it all, and about his old team, in the past tense today. His favorite Browns memories? “Ask me that question some day when I’m sitting in a rocking chair,” he said in a conference call with Ohio writers. At 38, Dawson rocks. He is coming off his only Pro Bowl trip. He has signed a one-year deal with the favorite to win the next Super Bowl. He had wanted a long-term deal with the Browns some time ago. The best he could do was become the only expansion-era Brown ever slapped with the franchise tag. That applied only to the 2012 season. Did the Browns even offer him a contract for 2013? CEO Joe Banner has tap-danced around the question. Dawson put on his own dancing shoes. “I appreciate the interest (in asking),” Dawson said, with inflection that indicated a wry smile, “but my focus is 100 percent on moving forward.” What might have happened to keep him in Cleveland? He would only quote a late, great Texas coach, Darrell Royal, as to the hypothetical: “If worms had guns, birds wouldn’t eat ‘em.” He made it sound as if San Francisco has everything. “What is there not to like about this place?” he said from California. “It’s a storied franchise. It has a great front office, a dynamic head coach, a special teams coach (Brad Seely) I have a working relationship with. The team is on the verge of winning it all. It’s a great part of country to live in. “Why not here? You’d have a hard time finding a reason for that.” Dawson spoke of Cleveland in highly respectful terms. “I wish for the Browns and I wish Cleveland nothing but the best,” he said. “I’ll be rooting for ‘em. It was some of the greatest years of my life.” Dawson was on the verge of breaking Lou Groza’s all-time Browns scoring record when he cleared out his locker for the last time at 76 Lou Groza Boulevard. “Mr. Groza is Mr. Cleveland Brown,” Dawson said. “It only seems right he’s going to be the all-time leading scorer there.” Like a long Dawson field goal try one second after impact, it’s up in the air as to who will replace No. 4. “I anticipate it will be a tough situation for a young guy to step into,” he said. “I’ll be pulling for him.” C'mon man. Warmer climate, chance for a Superbowl, can't blame the guy. But, who will replace him?
Here we go again
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But, who will replace him?
²hr />
A quality player, classy. But of all the current holes on the roster, this should be the easiest to replace.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Well, a punter is actually the easiest to replace. I think we'll struggle to find a kicker who is as consistent as Dawson was (particularly in foul weather). Will it matter a whole lot? Hopefully, no. However, you just have to know that the first time our new kicker misses a kick, people are gonna say "Phil would have made that one." It is what it is...
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It's like this...most everyone loved Phil...And I was amazed when he kicked the FG's he did against Buffalo in the crazy snow / wind storm....
You know, really what i liked most about Phil is he's a winner! Steps up to the plate and knocks it out of the park almost every time. That's what we are really gonna miss about him.
Last edited by dawg531; 03/22/13 02:11 PM.
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We are going to miss everything about Phil. And those of thus who knew Phil as the person instead of the Phil the player are going to miss him 10 times as much.
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We are going to miss everything about Phil. And those of thus who knew Phil as the person instead of the Phil the player are going to miss him 10 times as much.
I had a chance to talk with Phil after one of the practices I went to.
We started some minor. non-football chit chat and then someone came up to him and started talking. I took this as a sign that I had worn out my welcome, so when I turned around and started to walk away Phil spoke up and said "Hey, wait a minute." He continued exactly where he left off before being interrupted. I don't know why, but it meant a lot to me. Truly a blue collar individual and I wish him absolutely nothing but the best.
People saying "he's old, time to move on, thats what teams do, blah blah this, blah blah that" are right to an extent, but are also wrong to an extent. I'll just leave it at that.
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Did the Browns even offer him a contract for 2013? CEO Joe Banner has tap-danced around the question. Dawson put on his own dancing shoes.
Why the hell would Banner tap-dance around the question?
For God sakes Banner, MAN UP and just give your reasoning why you didn't want Phil Dawson in Cleveland...stand behind your decisions and take the questions from the media, like a "man".
The people with experience on the football side of management, from the previous Browns regime, placed a high value on Dawson's ability to affect the outcome of football games.
Obviously, those in charge of the football side of 49ers realized how valuable a kicker of Phil Dawson's caliber is and they had to be delighted and somewhat shocked that Banner let Dawson walk. Obviously the 49ers put a higher priority on winning than Haslam and Banner do, here in Cleveland.
So there we have it Browns fans...a great example of Joe Banner's ability to judge football talent, based on his experience with salary cap matters and contract negotiations.
Kicking in CBS in November and December is not as easy as a Bean Counter might think. Banner might not want to "man up" and admits he let Dawson walk without offering him a contract, but if the new kicker misses a potential game winning field goal this season, the fans and media will continue to ask Banner why he didn't offer Dawson a contract.the question.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
assuming these reports are accurate, this shows the front office has zero urgency in winning NOW. They have no problems losing a couple of winnable games this season in order to save $2-3 million.
Some of our most memorable and enjoyable wins have come courtesy of Dawson.
It would be different if we were right at the salary cap and had to make a tough decision. Not the case. At all. It is what it is. Hope we find another Pro-Bowl kicker.
I undertand what you are saying Don....I like kickers, having done it myself, but you are assuming the next guy we get can't make kicks.
There are a lot of good kickers who never got the chance because jobs are at a minimum. Once you are lucky enough to gain one of 32 jobs, you generally stick around 15 or more years.
Just the nature of the position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,822 Likes: 460
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,822 Likes: 460 |
That just goes to show what kind of man Phil is 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941 Likes: 69
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941 Likes: 69 |
Quote:
....I like kickers, having done it myself, but you are assuming the next guy we get can't make kicks.
How's your accuracy in a cross-wind? Do you need an agent?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,571 Likes: 815
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,571 Likes: 815 |
Mac. It's nice to be able to count beans.
Quit your moaning.
I don't like losing him any more than you, but you are acting like he can't be replaced.
It is what it is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,822 Likes: 460
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,822 Likes: 460 |
Quote:
Why the hell would Banner tap-dance around the question?
Oh please he tap dances around every question. The SOB never answers any any question unless it's it's three years later and he is proven to be correct (which doesn't happen very often)
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Well at least now in the Sunday chat room the talk will switch from, "if we only had Vickers", to Dawson.
A nice change of pace.
#GMSTRONG
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Phil Dawson to 49ers
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