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Granny is meaner. You expect her head to be scrambled! 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I agree with Banner. It is probably better to get rid of a guy a year or two early rather than a year or two late.
Had Banner been in charge in Baltimore, the Ravens would never have won the Super Bowl.
Banner's crazy "30 and out" rule is just more proof that Banner is first and foremost, a "bean counter"...a bean counter who does not have a clue what it takes to build a team that "wins it all".
For those who are bummed about the Browns not signing a good veteran WR...the Browns under new management, might very well be the last place those free agents would like to play.
At this time, there are so many unknowns here...new management, new coaches, new offense and defense...etc. If this season goes well for the Browns and next season's free agents get a chance to see how this organization operates, it could make a difference in signing free agents.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I agree that Nelson is a good signing. I liked him when he was playing in Buffalo. Quote:
I agree with Banner. It is probably better to get rid of a guy a year or two early rather than a year or two late.
This is the sentiment that always confuses me. A couple of things come to mind when I see this stated as some kind of overriding principle.....One, football players very seldom just all of a sudden decide to start playing like somebody's grandfather. You can normally see it coming and compensate if you have to by moving the player around, playing him a bit less, etc. And having a veteran around definitely can benefit a team in many ways if the veteran is in the right frame of mind. Secondly, football contracts now are not as fiscally damaging even if you do keep a guy one year too long. Any big money that the player gets is now up front so canning him a year (or two) only does nothing, really, other than accelerate the cap hit for his bonus. Depending on the size of the up front bonus canning a guy early may actually make less sense.
I understand the NFL is a business, first and foremost. But this is one business principle that I just don't think holds water.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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JMHO, at least this regime has SIGNED some free agents, we've been in mode of wait till next year for so long......we got money, we've spent some money on young guys with SOME talent.....lets get out of the cellar......GO Browns.....like Nelson signing, good hands and size......win, win, win, GO Browns!!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
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Big difference in stats.
Momass % of passes caught = 42%
Nelson % of passes caught = 62%
So the Browns traded a receiver that can't catch by one that can...
Major difference
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With Gordon and Little as the #1 & #2... and this cat as our #3.... holy smokes that is a BIG set of WR's!
Yes ,thats what they wanted..and I think in the draft they want to get a small speedy playmaker , to create mismatches.
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...Banner's crazy "30 and out" rule is just more proof that Banner is first and foremost, a "bean counter"...a bean counter who does not have a clue what it takes to build a team that "wins it all".
Usually I'm on the same page as you, mac, but I have tro disagree with you on this issue. IMO, I believe this is generally (not always though) wise as it should address the long term competitiveness of the team as opposed to long term "droughts" due to having to rebuild.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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As a receiver, David Nelson can best be described as a “big, prototypical possession receiver”. At 6’5″ tall and 217 lbs., Nelson has a large frame that he uses to gain position on defenders and to create separation. Nelson has good build-up speed, but he will never be mistaken for a burner or a vertical threat. On third downs and in the red zone are the two areas where Nelson’s presence is felt most. His ability to find soft spots in zones combined with his size and great hands make him a tough matchup in the middle of the field.
Wow. That sounds good. This is the kind of guy I was describing on the MoMass thread and I said we need. A guy who can move the chains on 3rd down and find holes in the zone.
Oh........and is Dj ripping Banner again? LMAO.......that's something new.
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When he visited here...he was not signed right away cause we were checking him out medically.
Another signing of a young FA - btw...anyone else thinks Chud might have his JJ???
I am not a fan of Benjamin in the slot. Not tough enough. I'd love to see him earn his way to the slot position. A one year - show me contract probably on both ends...us to show him Air Norv is good for his career. One year for his knee to show us it has healed.
Another good signing JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We're looking at him pre-ACL injury.
We'll see how he does during his first year after the ACL. It's possible he won't fully get his confidence back until later in the season. Or next year.
Then again, maybe he'll pull a Welker and be a beast. That's rare though.
His ACL surgery was done by the same Dr. that did Petersons and RG3's...
can't say what RG will turn out like, but Peterson sure came back strong..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think the healing has more to do with the individual than who did the operation.
#gmstrong
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Browns | David Nelson injury update Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:53:48 -0700 Cleveland Browns WR David Nelson (knee) said with the way he is progressing, he is hoping to be a full go for organized team activities. Nelson suffered a season-ending knee injury in Week 1 of 2012. Link
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Banner's crazy "30 and out" rule is just more proof that Banner is first and foremost, a "bean counter"...a bean counter who does not have a clue what it takes to build a team that "wins it all".
I can just assume you don't run a suicide hot line...lol 
I am going to take a wild guess here. We got a good young foundation but we do not have a TEAM Built here. We continue the build here. So we went with young FA...we might sign a 30+ FS after the draft if we still need one.
Your statement above would mean something if this team was BUILT n READY TO WIN...needing just one piece of the puzzle n we refuse to sign a VET 30+ that would put that final piece in place.
We made two Long term signings for our D. Banner stated he'd like to pace our FA signings over two years so that there is a rotation of available cap when one year expires.
If you all are crying cause we got cap room but refused to BUILD a TEAM via FA so we can win 10 games n go one n done in the Playoffs n then reach cap hell so we got to get rid of some talent...eat dead money...be stuck in a bad position to re-sign our drafted talent as their original contracts expire.
I think its is not very sound to get a lot of starters via FA as opposed to developing your drafted youth. In the past I understand this was a necessity as we had no drafted youth making the progress. Not the case here with this foundation. Yes this is virgin territory for us. 30 young football players who yes, can be upgraded on but they are Football players ready to contribute n progress - slowly becoming our VETS just like we have Joe T, DQ, Rubin n Mack we will make those IN-HOUSE VETS grow in numbers. I don't really wish to have Mercenary Players to rely heavily on. I rather have the core from players who know only the Browns even if they spent a year with another n got released as long as this was their FIRST HOME n Believe in the Team concept. Once they go FA there is a Business attitude instead of Belief attitude. If the core is still Home Grown the FA gotten can become part of the TEAM concept easily...If the Core becomes FA centered...there is that well lets get through this season Healthy if we start out 2-6 without the fight necessary to put together a winning streak!
Or the Intense Football needed for the playoffs. You know that all had with their HS n Colleges when they were amateurs!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Five wide, anyone? Gordon, Little, Nelson, Benjamin & Norwood. Big and Fast rain of hell. 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Take out Benjamin n Norwood...in their place add Cameron n the other kid from Panthers we got...We even could send Little in motion n hand the ball off to him 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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As a receiver, David Nelson can best be described as a “big, prototypical possession receiver”. At 6’5″ tall and 217 lbs., Nelson has a large frame that he uses to gain position on defenders and to create separation. Nelson has good build-up speed, but he will never be mistaken for a burner or a vertical threat. On third downs and in the red zone are the two areas where Nelson’s presence is felt most. His ability to find soft spots in zones combined with his size and great hands make him a tough matchup in the middle of the field.
Meet Chud's new Joe Jurevicius.
In Gordon, we have someone that can do what Braylon did, and in Little we have someone far better than Tim Carter or Travis Wilson was for us.
Now we just need a TE that can do what Winslow did for us and our offense should look an awful lot like 2007.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think the healing has more to do with the individual than who did the operation.
Really? LOL No kidding. everyone is different. The point was that he had the most well known (Dr. Andrews) in Sports Medicine as it relates to ACL's anyway.
But I'd say his chances are pretty good. he's a strong young guy who is supposedly working his rehab..
So why be negative?
He had a pretty darn good year in 2011. I'd love to have the production here. It's a 1 year deal that I bet isn't for a whole lotta money. So, I ask again, why be negative?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm not being negative. I just stated it depends more on the individual than the surgeon. I could care less who did the surgery just so it wasn't you or me. I care more about how hard he has worked his rehab and his mindset when the playing time starts. Some guys take the entire first year after an ACL to regain the confidence in that knee. Other guys like Peterson (Wow) and Welker (another Wow) come back and don't miss a step. For now I'll assume that our people checked him out in depth and believe his medical and mental progress is spot on.
#gmstrong
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I could care less who did the surgery just so it wasn't you or me.
or Winslow's doctor 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Meet Chud's new Joe Jurevicius.
In Gordon, we have someone that can do what Braylon did, and in Little we have someone far better than Tim Carter or Travis Wilson was for us.
Now we just need a TE that can do what Winslow did for us and our offense should look an awful lot like 2007.
I agree w/much of your post and I realize that not many will want to admit this, but DA had one heck of a year for us in 2007. Weeden is light years away from performing like DA did that year. People will laugh, scoff, belittle me for that comment, but it's the truth.
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Can't go wrong with a 1 year deal. Potential help this year, less draft "need" and a possible leg-up on re-signing him if he is 100%.
Those cowering in fear of Cap Hell should research these 1 year deals. Cap Paranoia should not apply to 1 year deals, especially when you save $20 million.
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People will laugh, scoff, belittle me for that comment, but it's the truth.
I won't do any of those things...I will shake my head at the Versism portrayed in that quote...lol
"but its the truth" simply put its your opinion. The Truth will actually enfold during the season for all to see. Then n only then will opinion become TRUTH. I hope you are wrong n deep down inside I know you hope so as well!
But the Truth will be known 8 months from now. If Chud can make DA look that good...man o man I hope I'm right about Weeden...lol and yes I have no truth in my pocket regarding my opinion either. A lot of Homerism n faith in our Coaching staff who obviously have put their trust in Weeden at least for the next season.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Meet Chud's new Joe Jurevicius.
In Gordon, we have someone that can do what Braylon did, and in Little we have someone far better than Tim Carter or Travis Wilson was for us.
Now we just need a TE that can do what Winslow did for us and our offense should look an awful lot like 2007.
I agree w/much of your post and I realize that not many will want to admit this, but DA had one heck of a year for us in 2007. Weeden is light years away from performing like DA did that year. People will laugh, scoff, belittle me for that comment, but it's the truth.
If by "light years away" you possibly mean "light years ahead", I'd be inclined to agree, though that's probably overstating it a bit.... otherwise, I'd say that you either think WAAAY too much of DA, or WAAAY too little of Weeden.
Right now, I actually see DA & Weeden as being close to the same player, with Weeden getting the edge and having upside with so little time in the league. He still has a lot of learning and growing to do in regard to NFL defenses. I *think* Weeden can easily have the success that DA saw in the first half of '07. Where Weeden pulls ahead, IMO, is that he can actually play the short and underneath stuff.... something that DA could never do because everything came out at 190mph. I also don't think that our receivers will have to bail out Weeden anywhere near as often as K2, BE, & JJ bailed out DA.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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JMHO, at least this regime has SIGNED some free agents, we've been in mode of wait till next year for so long......
hit...did you bother to look anything up to back up your claim above...that Heckert didn't sign some free agents?
What if I told you that Heckert signed more free agents in his first year than this regime has?
Also, you need to understand that Heckert and Holmgren were rebuilding the roster, via the draft and many of those young players are going to get the opportunity to see if they are good enough to remain with the team...thus they must get playing time.
The reason "this" regime has so much money to spend on free agency, is because the previous regime primarily built the team on draft picks, rather than relying on a roster of overpaid free agents....which is what the roster was when Holmgren and Heckert took over.
Concerning this signing...it would have been nice if the Browns had spent to sign a good free agent WR...but hey, we got this guy coming off a knee repair that might be able to help out.
Just a guess, but drafting a WR might be a priority given the way free agency has gone.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Just a guess, but drafting a WR might be a priority given the way free agency has gone.
Not saying you are wrong, but I hope it's not a priority. We've got 3 guys locked up (Little, Gordon, Benjamin) and just signed Norwood/Nelson to give us another year.
They've kind of boxed themselves in at CB and FS. Those have to be a priority, right? I think we still need help at ILB and TE. Also have to think a project QB.
I'm hoping WR (and FB) are both looked at late in the draft or from the UDFA/Final Cut pile. Always seems to be some interesting prospects left laying around at these positions.
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Your statement above would mean something if this team was BUILT n READY TO WIN...needing just one piece of the puzzle n we refuse to sign a VET 30+ that would put that final piece in place.
EO...make no mistake about what I'm saying...Banner's rule, that players 30 and above are not resigned...is plain STUPID !
It signifies the thinking of a "bean counter" rather than the thinking of a CEO or GM who judges the player based on what he brings to the team rather than a CEO/GM who thinks in terms of the age of the player and the cost of resigning that player.
In short, (in the past) Banner believed many of the Eagles free agents were not worth the money to resign, because they were 30 yrs old or more.
I'm going to touch on my example of a good GM who judges his players based on what they bring to the team rather than focusing on age/cost to resign.
...would Ozzie Newsome sign free agents who were 30 yrs of age or older?
Ozzie would not only sign players in their 30s, he didn't care if those 30 something veterans were the core of the team. Did Ozzie's method work well enough to win it all?
How about Banner's method, when with the Eagles...they win it all?
In my research into Banner, he even admitted that he made mistakes when it came to him "not resigning" some of the Eagles free agents that Andy Reid wanted on the team.
We do not know for sure if Banner is continuing to use his idiotic "30 and out" rule, here in Cleveland...but the Phil Dawson case would indicate he is.
At this time, with the team beginning year 4 of the 5 yr rebuilding of the roster via the draft, Banner's "30 and out" rule may not hurt the team as badly now as it can in the years ahead.
The Browns could have used a good free agent WR...didn't get one. So now we are left with signing a cast off, hoping he will be able to rehab well enough to play this year.
OR, maybe WR is now at the top of our draft board...who knows.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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You lose a player in MoMass, gain a player in Nelson. I suspect the Browns will be a bit better.
There is a lot to like about Nelson.
I could care less about people trying to predicting the future with Banner et al. Time will be the judge.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Maybe we'll bring her in too ..... to start our new cheerleader squad ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Browns | David Nelson injury update
Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:53:48 -0700
Cleveland Browns WR David Nelson (knee) said with the way he is progressing, he is hoping to be a full go for organized team activities. Nelson suffered a season-ending knee injury in Week 1 of 2012.
Link
Fans have to remember ,it's not the first year after the inury a player returns full strength and trusts the knee,it's the second year ..look at Hardesty now rather than when he first came back.
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As a receiver, David Nelson can best be described as a “big, prototypical possession receiver”. At 6’5″ tall and 217 lbs., Nelson has a large frame that he uses to gain position on defenders and to create separation. Nelson has good build-up speed, but he will never be mistaken for a burner or a vertical threat. On third downs and in the red zone are the two areas where Nelson’s presence is felt most. His ability to find soft spots in zones combined with his size and great hands make him a tough matchup in the middle of the field.
Meet Chud's new Joe Jurevicius.
In Gordon, we have someone that can do what Braylon did, and in Little we have someone far better than Tim Carter or Travis Wilson was for us.
Now we just need a TE that can do what Winslow did for us and our offense should look an awful lot like 2007.
I totaly agree this is Chud's JJ and I really like Cameron to be a great Recieving TE... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Dang.......if only we would get a new qb.....
I'm thinking you'll get your wish in a year's time.
Lots of people wishin' this! ....Huge year for Weeden.....Do or die.
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Lots of people wishin' this! ....Huge year for Weeden.....Do or die.
I firmly believe this to be true. Even if he has a good year I think we'll draft a new QB next year to sit behind him.
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People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
- Isaac Asimov
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Quote:
Quote:
Browns | David Nelson injury update
Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:53:48 -0700
Cleveland Browns WR David Nelson (knee) said with the way he is progressing, he is hoping to be a full go for organized team activities. Nelson suffered a season-ending knee injury in Week 1 of 2012.
Link
Fans have to remember ,it's not the first year after the inury a player returns full strength and trusts the knee,it's the second year ..look at Hardesty now rather than when he first came back.
AP seemed pretty trusting to me. Also, IIRC Nelson injured his knee in the first game last season. He's been rehabbing for a while now.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Browns | David Nelson injury update
Mon, 08 Apr 2013 15:53:48 -0700
Cleveland Browns WR David Nelson (knee) said with the way he is progressing, he is hoping to be a full go for organized team activities. Nelson suffered a season-ending knee injury in Week 1 of 2012.
Link
Fans have to remember ,it's not the first year after the inury a player returns full strength and trusts the knee,it's the second year ..look at Hardesty now rather than when he first came back.
Then it's great we signed him to a one year deal!
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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EO...make no mistake about what I'm saying...Banner's rule, that players 30 and above are not resigned...is plain STUPID !
And yet there we have Banner going to get Campbell in FA n he is 31. So for the right reasons he is willing to break the "RULE"
As for Ozzie...we all love Ozzie n he is a good GM - but he did let a HOF Safety walk all in the name of AGE?
Urlacher walk, many AGED players are being let loose because of AGE - and quite frankly these guys got a heck of a lot of game than the ones we just let loose. Parker hmmmm or Freeney - All teams are getting younger. Not just us.
Outside of Dawson nothing major...Watson maybe was the next best n he's oft injured n just not getting any younger.
Banner w/Eagles you question their work not being successful cause they didn't win it ALL. They were in the NFC championship what seemed like every year n In the playoffs at the least. Better than the Marty Run with Kosar.
All this drafting n FA stuff is to get you in the position to Compete for the Championship...That they did.
Your research on Banner - weather correct or not I thought it was cool that he admitted to making mistakes. Guess he ain't this TYRANT some wish to make him out to be - one clue Tyrants don't admit mistakes.
Oh n people do get better by ADMITTING to their mistakes...that means they Learned. Not admitting means they didn't learn squat
Browns could have used a good FA WR...again this is about WR...if that is your case sorry Mac you ain't got one. That FA WR is nowhere going to effect our season one way or another. And why are you determining Nelson as not a good one???
By the way the best WR that was out in the market place was let go...let go...by whom??? OH yeah OZZIE...hmmm
WR top of our Draft board my goodness you cannot be serious are you??? 
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,555
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,555 |
For you and your buddies Mac and Djanjo. Lets don't make it sound like it is a hard and fast rule because I don't think it is and I don't think 30 is the line in the sand. Let's also not assume we will always let guys go 2 years early either. You make the move when you are at the point you have to compensate. I think Hank Fraley is a perfect example since we all know him. The Eagles let him go to us and got some compensation I believe...we did trade for him didn't we? At any rate, Hank played well for us but a lot of that was smoke and mirrors because the others were so bad. I think he looked a little better than he really was, and he played here what, 2 years? Back to the comment.....in a ideal world, you hit it just right, but if you are going to make a mistake, make it a year or so early. I don't want my team to compensate for diminishing skills in a high paid vet.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
As for Ozzie...we all love Ozzie n he is a good GM - but he did let a HOF Safety walk all in the name of AGE?
Reed will also be 35yo at the start of the next season...we're talking DB here. He had one of his worst seasons btw and his skills were clearly in decline. He also got 5mil/year because of his reputation. Ozzie also inked a 30yo Huff for 2mil/season to replace him and I think he'll be as good if not better the next two season
Ozzie also signed 3 other 30yo in Canty, Spears and Dumervil (29yo) and he spent less on those 4 players than we did on Kruger and Bryant. The Ravens were up against the cap but signed twice as many starters as we did.....I'm sure Ozzie was thinking something like "nobody wants to win this league??"....you know, like that feeling in your Keeper-Fantasy league where everyone goes upside happy and the good, reliable older vets keep falling to you and you're like "ooookkk"
You play to win the game...right? I think Ozzie got that memo clear and load....he gets it, he doesn't "get cute". He's confident in his ablities enough to just do the obvious thing instead of showing off to the world how smart he is. He does the same mostly on draft days....I always fear when the Ravens are otc and I think I have the highest prediction percentage on Ravens picks, as he just sticks to his board and picks the obvious value, he actually DOES what makes the most sense...Having typed that out...man, I wish he was our GM 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 12,635 |
jc
Our WR core is beginning to shape up nicely on paper. Norv and company minds should be going a-wall with that various talent, body types, and everything in between that they have at their disposal.
Blocking o-line. Just need Weeden to step-up. The largest doubt I have for this team is QB, but what is new? Been this way for decades now.
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