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Haslam press conference: web page
From this source "Haslam did confirm that the investigation centers on the application of customer rebates. Haslam said a very small number of customers claim they were not paid rebates they were owed."
What the heck do the FBI and IRS care about a rebate program?!?
Ever checked your credit card acct after buying gas at Pilot??
Last December I was back in Ohio, and discovered they place a $150 hold on your card for any pay-at-the-pump gasoline purchase. The hold was on my acct for days, though their phone rep claimed the hold only lasted 12 hours.
Perhaps they were pocketing the difference between the actual cost and not rebating the rest?? 
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Awesome, we'll be the first NFL team with an owner in prison. Can't wait. ...
Then the Browns would have to move to Illinois, where both the last two governors are serving time in federal prison (Ryan may be out on parole now; but Blagojevich and his hair are both in prison in Colorado).
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*Sigh* Maybe next year we'll be back to looking for a new owner, GM, President, coaching staff, and players to fit the (again) new offensive and defensive schemes. 
In addition to needing a new owner, GM, coaching staff, etc. ... A move is 100% back on the table. Don't be surprised to be without a team again in a few years.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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A move is 100% back on the table. Don't be surprised to be without a team again in a few years.
Anything is possible.
But highly unlikely.
The team moves if it's not profitable or more profitable in another location.
There aren't too many locations where you can sell out with a decade of 4-5 win seasons.
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Haslam's troubles can't be brushed off http://www.foxsportsohio.com/nfl/clevela...amp;feedID=3725About midafternoon, I had a conversation with a former federal investigator. In his career that spanned more than two decades, he was involved in some high-profile cases that could officially be called “doozies.” He went through the process of tracking money, checking Swiss bank accounts and obtaining and executing search warrants. He had no inside or outside knowledge of the specifics as to why the FBI and IRS had searched Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam’s company, Pilot Flying J, on Monday in Knoxville, Tenn. And as he spoke, the affadavit that accuses Haslam of extensive and long-term fraud had yet to be released. But this former agent had heard Haslam’s news conference earlier in the week, when Haslam said he didn’t believe he had done anything wrong and the investigation was related to small rebates. “It had me laughing,” the former investigator said. A few hours later, the anvil fell, when the feds, perhaps chuckling at Haslam’s claims, decided to unseal the affidavit that alleges Haslam and his company engaged in fraud for quite a few years. Basically, the feds claim a guy making millions was knowingly cheating the little guy out of money because the little guy didn’t know enough to stop it. At this point, all the usual caveats apply. Innocent until proven guilty. Nothing proven. No crime yet. Nobody charged. But let’s also not forget that more than 40 FBI agents as well as numerous IRS investigators descended on Pilot Flying J headquarters early this week. That doesn’t happen on a lark. Federal investigators are methodical, meticulous and thorough. They pound the rock slowly and steadily. If they get four search warrants for a business, they have presented solid evidence to obtain the warrants. The former investigator may not know the details of Haslam's case, but he knows intimately how federal investigators work. “From my experience,” the former investigator said, “by the time an investigation gets to the point of a search warrant, you pretty much have someone by the (testicles). Anything you find while executing the warrant is frosting on the cake.” He even painted a picture of what he expected to happen. He said -- before the affidavit was released -- that typically in a case like this, the company finds a lower-level employee to scapegoat. Said employee would receive the blame, the investigator said. But he added that the FBI and IRS are used to this, so he was fairly sure the feds had an unnamed informant within the company pointing out those involved. Lo and behold, the affidavit named a company employee who pointed out the fraud, and said Haslam was present at meetings when it was discussed. This is not a small potatoes thing. Fraud is a very serious legal, ethical and moral charge. The feds say the investigation began in 2011, and allege the fraud scheme was in place for five-to-seven years. Haslam released a statement that started with this: “I now understand more clearly the questions the federal investigators are exploring.” He didn’t know before Thursday? The statement continued: “I maintain that the foundation of this company is built on its integrity and that any willful wrongdoing by any employee of this company at any time is intolerable. We will continue to cooperate with the federal investigation and continue our own investigation in these allegations. I value the relationships we have with our customers, our vendors and our team members across this country and regret that they have to go through this with us, but I trust and believe their faith in this company and its principles has never been misplaced.” This reads as a very well-crafted non-denial denial. And in fact it hints at the very strategy the former investigator detailed before the affidavit was released: Blame an underling. Nobody knows what will happen with this case, where it goes or how it turns. Nobody has been charged with a crime, but several members of the Pilot Flying J sales staff have been served subpoenas. But it all seems so shameful, and it sure seems to bring a ton of shame to Cleveland and the Browns. It also raises questions. A lot of questions. Many of them are troubling. Was the NFL aware of this investigation when it put together the Haslam-Joe Banner team to buy the Browns? How could Haslam portray himself as Cleveland’s white knight riding in to save the day knowing the feds were sniffing at his door? What does this do to Haslam’s credibility within the league? What happens to the team if Haslam is indicted? Does the league take over? Was this investigation the reason Haslam decided to return as CEO of Pilot Flying J? And … finally … why does this stuff seem to happen so often in Cleveland?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This is just sad.  I didn't trust Haslam from the get go, he had snake written all over him....then again, pretty much every owner has. I just don't want to know how the loyal players like DQ, Rubin etc feel about this, it must be incredibly depressing. If even half of it is true, then he absolutely has to go....no way a blue collar city like Cleveland deserves an owner like Haslam On the football side, the "consensus" can probably re-live what Heckert had to go through 6 months ago...and the carousel keeps spinning 
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J/C
First off, innocent until proven guilty. But, even if guilty... I don't think Haslam will get much more than a slap-on-the-wrist. I imagine the penalties will be civil ($$$) not criminal and if there is anything criminal there will be corporate fall-guys. Plus, he's gotta have one heckuva law team between Pilot and our Browns.
If he's guilty, I would prefer him to sell the team. No matter how that sets back the front office, I have no problems cheering for a 2-14 team. I've done it long enough. I'd rather cheer for that, than see a Greedy, Billionaire-Cheat in the owners' box. Even if this is stealing $.02 per gallon from a trucking company, when someone this rich steals it is inexcusable. And if he's guilty, I will not buy gas at Flying J or Pilot. And I won't financially support The Browns (no merch, no $9 beers, any tix will be via scalpers and resale)
I hope he is found to be innocent. I will have a hard time supporting The Browns if he is guilty and allowed to retain ownership.
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This is just sad.
I didn't trust Haslam from the get go, he had snake written all over him....then again, pretty much every owner has.
DJ...I agree, this is not only sad, but "un-freaking real"...
Just a hunch, but if Haslam is dirty...if his voice is on tape, proving he knew about the fraud and approved it, the NFL might try to pressure him to sell the team.
Chronology of investigation into Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam's Pilot Flying J
Posted: 12:08 AM
Last Updated: 6 hours and 56 minutes ago
By: knoxnews.com
KNOXVILLE - The raids carried out by federal agents at Pilot Flying J’s Knoxville headquarters and elsewhere this week were the culmination of a nearly two-year investigation.
- May 24, 2011: Confidential Human Source No. 1, (referred to “CHS-1), make the initial contact with the FBI to report “his/her knowledge of fraudulent activity by certain Pilot employees directed at Pilot’s customers.”
- June 2011: CHS-1 and CHS-2 begin recording a series of conversations with high-ranking corporate officials directly involved in the fraud. From these recordings, the FBI determines that Cathy Giesick, a former Pilot regional sales manager, might have relevant information.
- Oct. 2, 2012: Special agents with the FBI and the IRS-Criminal Investigation division contact Giesick at her home in Temple, Texas. She agrees to cooperate with the investigation.
- Oct. 24-25 2012: CHS-2 secretly records conversations while visiting Pilot headquarters in Knoxville
- Nov. 19, 2012: CHS-2 attends and secretly records a sales meeting at Pilot headquarters in which Director of Sales for National Accounts Brian Mosher teaches deceptive rebate practices
- Dec. 17, 2012: CHS-2 meets with Pilot Regional Sales Manager Scott Fenwick during a business trip to Washington. “Fenwick told CHS-2 that he was engaging in rebate fraud that was costing customers a total of $70,000 to $90,000 in lost rebates each month.
- Jan. 24, 2012: “CHS-2 advised that (Wholesale and Inside Sales Director) Vickie Borden forwarded him an email that stated that Jimmy Haslam and John Freeman were looking carefully at every customer’s profit and loss report and consolidating duplicate entries. CHS-2 stated that the increased profit from rebate fraud would be clearly evident to Jimmy Haslam and John Freeman” the affidavit states.
March 7, 2013: CHS-2 relays his conversation with Regional Account Representative Ashley Judd, who admitted that her emails to regional sales managers never mention rebate reductions. Instead, she keeps a file on the reductions in her desk drawer.
- April 14-15, 2013: FBI and IRS-CI agents executed search warrants at Pilot headquarters on Lonas Drive.
Documents in the Pilot Flying J investigation
On the afternoon of Monday, April 15, 2013, the FBI and IRS searched the Knoxville headquarters of Pilot Flying J. These documents lay out federal authorities' case for the search, based on claims of rebate fraud.
Affidavit in support of search warrant application
Affidavit - Description of items to be seized
Application for a search warrant
Search and seizure warrant
Motion to unseal document
Order on motion to unseal document
Motion to seal search warrant
Order on motion to seal search warrant
web page
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promises he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
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I've read a good portion of the affidavit from 850's website. The affidavit lays out a scheme that shows Jimmy having full knowledge of the the fraud that was taking place. I've been a Browns fan for 35 years so much so that I actually moved to Cleveland in 99 because they were coming back. I cannot support any person who takes advantage of people because their systems, processes or procedures are not sophisticated enough or they just don't have the business acumen to detect anything of this magnitude. I love the Browns and will always do so but I am fed up! Fed up with the constant losing, ineptness and constant changes! #frustrated 
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If he's guilty of a crime, then it bothers me. If not, he just the new absentee owner.
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Really ticks me off that he sold his Steelers stake right before this...
Otherwise we'd be laughing at the Steelers stupidity...
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promised he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
Haslam showed his willingness to lie to Browns fans when he declared he hired Banner after a long search for a CEO and Banner's name kept coming up.
But long before Haslam met Banner, Banner had already announced the reason he wanted to be a member of an investment group...
June 10, 2012
Joe Banner, the longtime Eagles president who stepped down this week, said he hopes to put together an investment group that can buy a struggling franchise, with partners who will allow him to run the team and attempt to turn it around, much as he helped do in Philadelphia.
web page
Banner wanted to be a member of an investment group so he could insure himself, that he would be the guy in charge of whatever franchise the investment group bought..Banner wanted total and complete power over everything...the football side, the financial side...everything!...and Haslam saw to it that Banner got what he wanted...even though Banner had "never" been in charge of the football side of the Eagles.
Haslam had no problem going before the media and lying to the fans about the reason he was giving the CEO job to Banner.
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This could be something of an event, where Browns fans may have to take action to force something to happen. Picketing, letters, websites...all sorts of action based things to force Jimmy Haslam out of Cleveland if indeed he is even remotely involved in any of this.
Scamming people out of MORE money when gas prices are as high as theyve ever been, and higher than they should be, and when companies are making record profits.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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That's a really good point. Haslam has nobody to roll over on, unless he knows things about the NFL that he could hand over.... maybe that's why so many other owners are "scared to death".
Nothing to do now but grab some popcorn on this one.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Wouldn't be shocked if we're temporarily owned by the NFL. Kind of like the NBA and the Hornets
I doubt that. More than likely, Jimmy would step aside as the owner and his wife Dee, would become the owner. Kinda like Eddie DeBartolo when his sister and Brother in Law stepped up.
It would be kinda hard for the League to not approve her.
I'd assume that if Jimmy ends up in a country club prison at some point, that his brother would step down as Governor and move into the CEO of Pilot Flying J role.
I seriously doubt that this ends up affecting the Browns much if at all.
It's very hard to say the FBI is wrong on this. I mean, look how quick they found those two brothers that have been tagged as being the guys responsible for the Boston Marathon bombing. I mean that was pretty fine police work there. Or at least it appears that was right now.
But that's not to say they are right about Haslam either. They say he had knowledge of the illegal activities, and perhaps that will turn out to be true (hope not, but you never know) but look how long it took to take down Frank Russo and Jimmy Dimora in Cuyahoga county, this isn't going to be determined overnight.
I have a feeling this is going to be settled in civil court rather than criminal court. Just a guess however.
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Hehe.... keep an eye on the Tennessee Governor and whether or not that thing with Medicare happens??? lol 
will you get me up to speed on that?
I'm wondering if Tennessee Governor is the real target here.
Just a thought. Of course that has never ever happened before, lol
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Just a hunch, but if Haslam is dirty...if his voice is on tape, proving he knew about the fraud and approved it, the NFL might try to pressure him to sell the team.
I really hope so. I wonder if the league has anything in place about criminal activity with owners?
Players and coaches have been suspended/fined for things outside of football, some of which weren't even illegal. As others mentioned, this is going to take a long time and he certainly won't reveal anything to the NFL during the investigation. "No comment..." So, I doubt there will be any action on the Browns until after the courts run their course.
And if he owes the IRS money, I imagine they can take his share of the NFL team or force him to choose between selling it and going to prison.
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J/C The thing that kills me more than anything else is that the league, not once, but twice, did their due diligence on this man ...... and passed him for ownership twice.  Now, in fairness, he bought the team almost a year ago, and there was probably very little hint of this going on ....... but there had to be some clue.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That's a really good point. Haslam has nobody to roll over on, unless he knows things about the NFL that he could hand over.... maybe that's why so many other owners are "scared to death".
Nothing to do now but grab some popcorn on this one.
The other owners are scared to death because they all have done something similar in their pasts (or presents)-you dont get to be a billionaire or close to it, without being ruthless. Just a fact.
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That's a really good point. Haslam has nobody to roll over on, unless he knows things about the NFL that he could hand over.... maybe that's why so many other owners are "scared to death".
Nothing to do now but grab some popcorn on this one.
The other owners are scared to death because they all have done something similar in their pasts (or presents)-you dont get to be a billionaire or close to it, without being ruthless. Just a fact.
Absolutely no doubt about that at all, Haslam wouldn't have intimate knowledge of the things the other owners do within their own companies, though.
However, he does have intimate knowledge of goings on in the NFL.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promises he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
Wow, I am surprised you didn't put up a picture of Jimmy with horns. 
GO BROWNS!
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jc Jimmy Haslam may be asked to step down while investigation continues Apr 19, 2013 -- 7:32am Federal allegations of fraud made against Jimmy Haslam’s Pilot Flying J company may imperil his operational control of the Cleveland Browns, according to a source with knowledge of both the legal system and the inner workings of the NFL. “This is worse than a dark cloud. This is a funnel cloud,” said the source. Haslam was inside the Browns’ facility to sit in on draft meetings on Thursday when details of an alleged fraud scheme that enriched his family’s company were revealed in unsealed documents filed in U.S. District Court in Knoxville, TN. The 120-page affidavit, as first reported by The Plain Dealer, summed up a two-year investigation of Haslam’s truck stop and travel center company by the FBI and IRS. The documents, which were used to obtain search and seizure warrants served Monday at company headquarters, charge that Haslam knew company sales executives withheld millions of dollars of rebates owed trucking companies that purchased gas in large volumes from Pilot Flying J. After reading the documents, Haslam issued a statement that said in part, “I maintain that the foundation of this company is built on its integrity and that any willful wrongdoing by any employee of this company at any time is intolerable.” Haslam pledged to continue to cooperate with the FBI investigation and also to continue his company’s internal investigation of the allegations. The NFL has declined to comment. The investigation has not resulted in an indictment. The source believes the league may ask Haslam to step aside of his own volition and remove himself from operational control of the Browns while the investigation continues. It’s possible that requirement could result in Haslam staying away from the team facility.
If Haslam declined, the source said, the league could suspend Haslam until the investigation is completed.Former NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue suspended former San Francisco 49ers owner Eddie DeBartolo Jr. for the 1999 season after DeBartolo pled to failing to report an alleged extortion plot involving the licensing of a Louisiana riverboat casino. DeBartolo also was fined $1 million by the league. He eventually ceded control of the franchise to his sister, Denise DeBartolo York. The source believes that it may be in Haslam’s best interest to appoint a family member “who can’t be touched” by the federal investigation of Pilot Flying J to oversee operations of the Browns. It’s unclear what action the NFL might take if Haslam himself were charged and convicted of a crime. Forcing a sale would be unprecedented. “They can force him, probably, to transfer his interests to another entity within the family, where he may still have equity holdings but absolutely no involvement in operations,” the source said. “They can remove him from having front-and-center involvement.” The source believes that alone would be a huge psychological blow to the Browns franchise. “The club was going to build off the energy of Jimmy Haslam, and the success of his company. This was going to be the foundation for the whole franchise and all the energy stemmed from that,” said the source. http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=16501
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Agreed. It says the investigation had been going on since 2011, which is obviously well before he bought the team. I would have to believe that if this does come back to bite the team in the butt in a serious way, the city would have grounds for a suit against the NFL. After all, they're the ones who steered Haslam and Lerner towards each other and, like you said, failed to uncover a federal investigation in the course of their due diligence, which is something I find incredibly hard to believe.
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Could Haslam lose ownership of Browns?A blog reader, Michael from Phoenix, asked: With the FBI raiding Pilot Flying J's headquarters, what are the chances that Jimmy Haslem won't be the Browns owner in the near future? That question was posed to ESPN.com legal analyst Lester Munson, who said: "I think that's in the realm of possibility." A league spokesman declined to weigh in on whether the investigation would affect Haslam's role as team owner. As a precedent, Munson pointed to Bruce McNall, who sold control of the NHL's Los Angeles Kings in 1994, the same year he pleaded guilty to defrauding several banks of $236 million. In terms of the NFL, Eddie DeBartolo Jr. was fined by the NFL and barred from active control of the San Francisco 49ers for one year in 1999 for his role in a riverboat gambling scandal. A year later, he turned over operation of the team to his sister as a way to settle his father's estate. Haslam's family business is in the midst of an FBI investigation that alleges members of the company's sales force preyed on smaller trucking companies by reducing the amount of rebates they were owed for buying certain amounts of fuel. One Pilot Flying J employee told investigators that Haslam, who is CEO of the company, knew about rebate fraud at the truck stop chain. Haslam, who is in Cleveland as the Browns make preparations for next week's NFL draft, said in a written statement Thursday evening that "the foundation of this company is built on its integrity and that any willful wrongdoing by any employee of this company at any time is intolerable." Another question is how the NFL's extensive background check on Haslam didn't reveal this issue six months ago, when he was unanimously approved by league owners. The NFL looks closely, along with independent advisers, into the finances of potential owners. "It's a very embarrassing thing for the National Football League," Munson said. "This is not a player in trouble. This is one of 32 owners who is now in trouble. So yes, they probably should have seen this. Somebody missed it. Maybe there's an explanation for that, maybe not. But this is a kind of thing that the league wants to find out before he closes the deal to buy the team." http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/68790/could-haslam-lose-ownership-of-browns
#gmstrong
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This whole situation stinks. If Haslam knew about this he will be facing serious jail time. Also some of the reports say Pilot Flying J was stealing millions a month. If that is true how much do they owe all these companies? Will it kill PFJ as a company? If it is determined that the wealth that Haslam obtained was fraudulent and he used that wealth to buy the Browns what would happen there?
Let's also not forget that nice big Stadium being built in L.A., some team is going to play there and the NFL said they are not expanding. If Haslam is stripped of his team either by the Government or by the NFL the next owner may decide they want to be in the bigger market. I know we sell out and they don't typically move a team that sells out but anything is possible at this point.
:sigh: WTF can't we ever catch a break?? Why to the sports Gods hate us? I know I should wait to worry but it's just so hard to not feel (as a fan) crappy about this situation as a whole.
On the other hand if even half of the stuff is true and Haslam knew about it, he a POS and I don't want him owning the Browns anyways.
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It's funny I should say something about this in response to someone elses post.. http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/295634/45/Browns-owner-Jimmy-Haslam-to-step-aside Quote:
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam to step aside?
CLEVELAND -- Reports are swirling that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam may be asked to relinquish control of the team amid a federal investigation of his Pilot Flying J company.
ESPNCleveland.com's Tony Grossi writes that a source "with knowledge of both the legal system and the inner workings of the NFL" says Haslam may be asked to step aside, and if he declined, "the league could suspend Haslam until the investigation is completed."
"They can force him, probably, to transfer his interests to another entity within the family, where he may still have equity holdings but absolutely no involvement in operations," the source is quoted in Grossi's report. "They can remove him from having front-and-center involvement."
The source tells Grossi that Haslam's best choice would be to have a family member oversee the team until further notice.
Federal officials unsealed the search warrants and affidavits used in Monday's raid on Pilot Flying J's headquarters in Tennessee. The documents, a 120-page report and a 55-page affidavit, were the items filed. It's alleged that a rebate fraud scheme at Pilot Flying J occurred with the knowledge of top executives, including CEO Jimmy Haslam.
Pilot Flying J is the nation's No. 1 retailer of diesel fuel, and its customer rebate program with trucking firms is at the center of the investigation.
As usual, the title says he's "to step aside" then goes on to say that the NFL may ask or force him to step aside as owner. Small difference there...LOL. of course they put a question mark after it so it makes it ok I guess.
Anyway, they make mention of another family member taking control..I said Dee Haslam, but I guess it could be his brother or some other member.
It's really not going to make a difference because Banner runs the team..
EDIT: And now I notice I wasn't the first to post this.... Geez,, I should read everything before posting... dang it all...
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/19/13 10:33 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Agreed. It says the investigation had been going on since 2011, which is obviously well before he bought the team. I would have to believe that if this does come back to bite the team in the butt in a serious way, the city would have grounds for a suit against the NFL. After all, they're the ones who steered Haslam and Lerner towards each other and, like you said, failed to uncover a federal investigation in the course of their due diligence, which is something I find incredibly hard to believe.
Why would the FBI offer up information to the NFL about a pending investiagtion. "Don't sell to Haslam because we're building a case against him. Oh, don't say anything to anyone else because this might take us another 18 months to build the case."
Uhhh, no. The case would fall apart and all those man hours would be lost.
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:sigh: WTF can't we ever catch a break?? Why to the sports Gods hate us? I know I should wait to worry but it's just so hard to not feel (as a fan) crappy about this situation as a whole.
On the other hand if even half of the stuff is true and Haslam knew about it, he a POS and I don't want him owning the Browns anyways.
I know it stinks and we don't deserve it. But maybe this is a break. I'd rather have this happen in his first year than after he got fully sunk in. Especially if he is crooked, I'd rather have him paranoid and on best-behavior than trying anything like this with Cleveland or us fans.
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promises he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
Wow, I am surprised you didn't put up a picture of Jimmy with horns.
I didn't say he was evil, I said he was criminal. You can add POS to that as well, if you like. 
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It's also pissing me off that Cleveland radio isn't talking about the draft, rather this nonsense. Less than one week away from our first round selection we are speculating what will happen to the Browns, who will run the team, the blemish it has on the city of Cleveland, etc. This is absolutely disgusting.  ......."Candidly". Who wants this guy sitting in the stands with you now??
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/19/13 10:50 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promises he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
Wow, I am surprised you didn't put up a picture of Jimmy with horns.
I didn't say he was evil, I said he was criminal. You can add POS to that as well, if you like.
Not for nothin, but what the hell ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"
#GMSTRONG
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That has never applied to the court of public opinion.
The FBI has recordings stating the Jimmy knew things, so it's going to get ugly.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promises he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
Wow, I am surprised you didn't put up a picture of Jimmy with horns.
I didn't say he was evil, I said he was criminal. You can add POS to that as well, if you like.
Not for nothin, but what the hell ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"
True. However, by the information being presented in the affadavit and the nature of FBI work, they wouldn't of raided the office with four search warrants if something wasn't up....to what level, we don't know yet.
As much as I believe in the phrase- 'innocent until proven guilty', I also believe in 'perception equals reality'. What other businesses want to get involved with a Browns' partnership with the trust factor now thrown out the window? How many possible businesses in Cleveland won't get involved in the fear of getting screwed by Haslem? How will the NFL look at the Cleveland Browns with Haslem owning the team? This will reverberate to so many other factors beyond Cleveland Browns football it's sickening.
How can anyone trust Haslem after this? Company wrongdoing is apparent. How far it goes up the chain of command with come to light sooner or later. Either way, it will be perceived Haslem is a swindler within the business community. And it will have an effect. I wonder how FirstEnergy is feeling right about now?
PNC Bank?
The Cleveland Clinic?
Etc.
And I actually feel confident with Joe Banner maintaining the daily operations during all this nonsense. His past experience as President in Philly does provide some sort of consolation prize during all of this.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 04/19/13 11:12 AM.
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Quote:
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j/c
Regardless how this shakes out, Haslam is a liar, a con man, a thief and a cheat. Nothing he said in his press conference is true. His greed, his need to make more money than he could legally, (which of course was hundreds of millions,) has put him, his company, his family and the Browns at risk. He will likely attempt to scapegoat this, and he may even slime his way out of jail time, but he is, at his core, just another lowlife criminal who steals from the public, conning them to participate by making promises he never intended to deliver on. This speaks to character, and it speaks to who he is as a person and as the Browns owner. JMHO
Wow, I am surprised you didn't put up a picture of Jimmy with horns.
I didn't say he was evil, I said he was criminal. You can add POS to that as well, if you like.
Not for nothin, but what the hell ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"
If I were sitting on a jury, that would apply in my deliberations. However, as a citizen, watching his pressers, and absorbing the information in the affidavit, I stand by my opinion, having the proof I need. Courtroom acquittal, doesn't always equate to innocence, so if you're waiting for someone else to make your decision regarding his guilt or innocence for you, that's certainly your choice.
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It would be one thing if he was just another shady business man screwing with money that you, I, or any of don't really ever see (even though I'm sure it somehow trickles down and somehow screws us) but to directly screw over the regular guy. The 40 hour a week guy in the low tax bracket, that's just horrible on so many levels.
If all this turns out to be true, I think he needs to give up the team, and not to someone else in the family, to a completely new owner.
If he doesn't, shame on you NFL for screwing us, not once, but twice. Screw you.
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For future deals, that definitely has to cause concern. But I also wonder how much of this reverberates to Pittsburgh. He was an owner there while all of this was going on. The Rooney's don't strike me as stupid individuals, and they had him as a partner....This puts them in the crosshairs too. I'm not trying to deflect it from us, because he owns the Browns, but he also owned a part of them up until just a couple weeks ago.
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I doubt that it brings the Rooneys into it in any way unless Haslem offers something up on them as part of a plea agreement.
It's a separate business where he wasn't the primary shareholder, so it's not likely that they've been looked at at all and won't be unless they're given a reason.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Never a boring moment as a browns fan.... Lots of sad and crappy moments... But never boring...
I disagree, it is boring. I can honestly say that in 40 years I have never been as apathetic about who they draft, who they sign, who they put on the field, who buys the team from the NFL once it's reclaimed.. I am having a really hard time mustering up the energy to give a crap.
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Here's the questions that keep going through my head:
If you're a FA and you're considering cleveland, are you still?
If you're a potential high draft pick that might get picked by Cleveland are you seriously hoping that doesn't happen now.?
If you're on the team or part of the new coaching staff looking forward to a fresh start how much does all this distraction torpedo your efforts?
We saw how much ownership issues can seriously effect an entire organization last year. This is just the issue to linger for a good long time to. Man, this is just freakin' awful. I don't want to think it but its hard not to believe this season just got seriously hampered before it even got started. This is the Lecharles debacle of ownership proportions. Eeeesh!
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