Better have that pass rush than just one coverage guy...Of course the prospect has to deliver. Lets say Millner does lets say Mingo does. Millner locks his guy down...leave 2-3 others blowing us out of the water.
Mingo delivers as an outstanding edgerusher. Improves Kruger, Improves 4-5 DB we got back there. Really I don't see anything stopping these great air attacks better than a Pass rush!
Banner for all the adjectives he has been called has been rather truthful - Come on JOE be a little sneakier. Don't really want Sheard to go but he has good value n with Groves n Mingo at the same position combined with the fact that Sheard has to make the Transition himself (I think he can) - unless we move him inside I see him as the only option for us to go into the 2nd. I see 6th very worthy CBs still on the board with/close to 2nd round grades...n not counting Mathieu as one of them or Logan Ryan.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: banner said last night sheard wont be traded............so you can forget about getting back into the 2nd round. Banner will continue to ignore the glaring and massive hole at cb. This years you will see teams blow us out of the water through the air....especially if and when haden gets hurt.......
I am confident that the front office is aware of our needs at CB, and elsewhere. I am also confident that they did their due diligence on Milliner and for whatever reason, had Mingo graded higher. A lot of the mocks I have seen had Milliner gone by our pick, and I think as many had Detroit taking Milliner as there were us taking him. Not only did he get past Detroit to us, but he dropped 5 slots after us. Him falling to the Jets says there were some concerns, as almost any team would have room for a top flight corner. Especially us and Detroit.
Since we did not see Milliner as our top choice at #6, an even bigger mistake would have been to take the next CB on our list, which would have been a reach. At #6, you go BPA; not best CB, or best QB or whatever.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
"Better have that pass rush than just one coverage guy...Of course the prospect has to deliver. Lets say Millner does lets say Mingo does. Millner locks his guy down...leave 2-3 others blowing us out of the water."
No where am I claiming this as a fact ("Mingo delivers as an outstanding edgerusher"). Just trying to do a FAIR comparison with the two prospects. Cause some dawgs act as if Millner delivers n Mingo does not n then compare them. I'm looking at it as if BOTH Deliver as prospects. That's all...I was guaranteeing nothing. I don't mind a little criticism...but please read my posts then criticize.
We have no clue or assurance which prospect DOES DELIVER. Was trying to show that Pass Rusher reaching their Potential would help the Browns more than a CB.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Quote: We do what the Bengals did in the first. Get our second quality TE to go with Cameron....Travis Kelce.
That or BPA.
Just a tad concerned about the prospects of BPA..Banner said they can't fix every hole and they were not going to force a pick. So it all depends on what CB is on their board vs another positional player and who is rated higher..we could see a TE or a FS.
Quote: I'm sure we want into the 2nd, but without a trade down from 6, I don't see how that's going to happen. And no, we better not trade any of next years draft.
We'll wait for our 3rd round selection.
I can see it happening with a trade of players. With the selection of Mingo, it appears that Sheard is being shopped. Can we get a 2nd for him from a 4-3 team? It's not beyond the pale. He's demonstrated his ability at the position on the Browns that past two seasons.
If you're an NFL GM, would you rather have any of the 4-3 DEs left or Jabaal Sheard? Jabaal Sheard has two years against NFL level talent has has been the Browns leader in sacks both seasons (8.5 in 2011 and 7.0 last year). I would say that he's probably better than any of the remaining DEs on the board and he comes with a reasonable price tag with 2 years remaining. We could probably seek and get a 2nd rounder for him. We might have to take a discounted bit for him but considering what's available in the draft or having Sheard? I think the Browns may very well be drafting in the 2nd round still.
OK gotcha... you were continuing your scenario of him panning out. Yes, I absolutely agree that a terrific pass rusher is better than a terrific 2nd corner. Still lots of startable guys left in the draft. Thanks!
The Browns have said, all along, that they want to be able to send wave after wave of pass rushers after the QB. Right now they are 4 deep as far as being able to do so. Groves is a nice piece, and Kruger is a big OLB who can rush the passer. Both Sheard and Mingo are quick off the line. Sheard is probably our 2nd most explosive pass rusher off the line.
I think of this alignment, and just go crazy with anticipation .....
On a 2nd or 3rd and long, this is insane speed. We could slide Kruger up tot he line, and drop Sheard back ...... or move Mingo up ....... or keep DQ in and leave one of the 3 outside rushers out ..... or so on. We can use Groves if we want. We could run a defense with ....
Mingo, Bryant, Rubin, Sheard Groves, Robertson (or DQ) and Kruger
For passing situations, this is scary speed off the edges.
We could also use all of Groves, Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo all at the same time. Big pass rush ability there.
I read an article that said that we had the worst pass rush production from the LB corps of any team in the league. I think that we'll be much better this year, and I doubt that the team has any desire to weaken this new strength. I want to build on this strength.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: banner said last night sheard wont be traded............so you can forget about getting back into the 2nd round. Banner will continue to ignore the glaring and massive hole at cb. This years you will see teams blow us out of the water through the air....especially if and when haden gets hurt.......
I am confident that the front office is aware of our needs at CB, and elsewhere. I am also confident that they did their due diligence on Milliner and for whatever reason, had Mingo graded higher. A lot of the mocks I have seen had Milliner gone by our pick, and I think as many had Detroit taking Milliner as there were us taking him. Not only did he get past Detroit to us, but he dropped 5 slots after us. Him falling to the Jets says there were some concerns, as almost any team would have room for a top flight corner. Especially us and Detroit.
Since we did not see Milliner as our top choice at #6, an even bigger mistake would have been to take the next CB on our list, which would have been a reach. At #6, you go BPA; not best CB, or best QB or whatever.
Very well summarized. Of course, the Banner/Lombardi haters will try and push their agenda ad nauseum. Who in their right mind would take a flyer on a guy coming off 5 frickin' surgeries? I don't care how minor, if you've had 5 surgeries before taking your first hit in the NFL, you have durability issues.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: Do we trade into the 2nd round, or stand pat? If the latter, what position are we targeting?
Prediction time.
Considering what we've done so far, a LB or another DE.
From what was said last night at the end of the draft, somewhere between 8-10 CB's could easily be taken in the second round. So unless they're willing to gamble in the 12th to 15th CB in this draft, they better do something.
And for those claiming we can wait till the 3rd because this draft is deep at CB? That's far more wishful thinking than a reality.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: Well, it's a gamble. But there most certainly could be a very good corner sitting there in the third round.
Could possibly, but not likely. I just know as weak as we are at the position and as many serviceable FA's as were on the market, that there would be some plan in place to address the CB issue with some quality.
I know we can't address all of our needs in one off-season, but to focus all of your energy and main investments in the front seven and ignore other glaring weaknesses seems like they're putting all their eggs in one basket.
From round three on, it's far more gambles than answers so I hope we get back into round 2 some way and address the CB issue. But I'm not holding my breath here.
Depth on the front 7 is a great thing to have. But with a secondary devoid of a second CB or S, depth on the DL seems more like a luxury we can't really afford right now.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think we are going to draft a CB and S in the 3rd and 4th. Then which ever is the 3rd will likely start and we will sign a FA to take the other starting spot. Not ideal but I think the 3rd rounder will be a solid starter.
BEST AVAILABLE NFL FREE AGENTS - DEFENSE By Adam Caplan Last updated: April 23, 2013 9:09 am ET
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Cornerback Quentin Jammer Shawntae Spencer Sheldon Brown Jason Allen Terrence McGee Drew Coleman Rashean Mathis Cedric Griffin Nate Clements Stanford Routt Will Allen Marcus Trufant Chris Carr Ryan Mouton Jacob Lacey Elbert Mack Michael Coe Justin Tryon Brandon McDonald Michael Adams Bruce Johnson Travis Daniels William Middleton Kennard Cox Brian Witherspoon
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
Quote: Depth on the front 7 is a great thing to have. But with a secondary devoid of a second CB or S, depth on the DL seems more like a luxury we can't really afford right now.
Sorry, but bull.
The 3-4 is an attacking, pressure defense. It is all about getting pressure on the QB immediately off the snap. That attacking attitude and pressure help the secondary far more than the reverse.
Look at the Ravens last year. Who were their corners when they faced (and beat) Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Colin Kaepernick in the playoffs? Remember that their #1 CB, Ladarius Webb, was out with an injury.
Who were the Steelers CBs last year?
They had the #1 defense in the NFL last year. They had the #1 pass defense. They brought pressure in torrents. Who were their starting CBs?
I remember Keenan Lewis, because he was a highly sought after free agent after his season last year. Are their other CBs Hall of Fame candidates? Ike Taylor is decent, but older, and winding down. Curtis Brown? Cortez Allen? Heck, they just re-signed William Gay. Isn't that an impressive CB corps? They make it work though, because of the pressure they bring wave after wave after wave. Why do so many of their players who don't create pressure do well in Pittsburgh and fail elsewhere? Because that pressure makes them a great deal better. Opposing QBs never get comfortable. Receivers get frustrated because they can't get anything deep, because the QB doesn't have time. The Steelers bring pressure off the edge, and guys who are 6.3" to 6'5" inside to cause a breakdown of the passing lanes. They blitz anyone and everyone from anywhere and everywhere.
They didn't have the #1 defense, and #1 pass defense last year because of their great CBs. They did because of the incredible pressure they bring.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
just for the record...never ever stated - I WANT TO TRADE SHEARD...just contributing in the discussion of getting into the 2nd round. Sheard would be the only player that would be a. Worth a 2nd round pick b. Might be expendable.
I've stated I would love to see him transitioned to ILB. Right now we got an overall #6 pick who will be getting all the attention n OPPORTUNITY...we also have Groves (maybe he will compete ILB?) just stating that he could be expendable. Not wishing him gone or anything. Just stating the probability could be there.
Why I suggest Sheard at ILB cause I too covet that versatility putting him with hand down...blitz packages with him on the field...maybe put Bryant at 4 Tech...Sheard at 50Tech...n Mingo at 70/90 tech... that would be Bryant right over the DE...Sheard standing up just outside shoulder of Bryant n Mingo standing up just outside of Sheard. You know an Overload that we never do...or execute lol
I like the multiple looks which again why I suggested Sheard ILB.
But if we truly are going to Want to trade a player for a 2nd rounder I don't see anyone else but Sheard. Not cause I want him...just Possibilities.
As always JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Best available at each position including guys Browns have shown interest in:
G Larry Warford, Kentucky TE Zack Ertz, Stanford TE Vance McDonald, Rice TE Travis Kelce, Cincinnati TE Gavin Escobar, SD St CB Johnthan Banks, Miss St CB Darius Slay, Miss St CB Jamar Taylor, Boise St CB Blidi Wreh-Wilson CB Robert Alford, SE Louisiana CB Logan Ryan, Rutgers CB Jordan Poyer, Oregon St CB Dwayne Gratz, UConn CB BW Webb, William & Mary S John Cyprien, FIU S JJ Wilcox, Southern S DJ Swearinger, South Carolina S Philip Thomas, Fresno St S Bacarri Rambo, Georgia
[quoteVery well summarized. Of course, the Banner/Lombardi haters will try and push their agenda ad nauseum. Who in their right mind would take a flyer on a guy coming off 5 frickin' surgeries? I don't care how minor, if you've had 5 surgeries before taking your first hit in the NFL, you have durability issues.
I don't see Sheard as "expendable". That's the difference.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Name one guy on our roster other than Haden you feel is worthy of even being an NFL starter, much less HOF'er?
How about S? Other then Ward, who do you have penciled in? Now I don't think Ward is great, but in Hortons scheme I think he will do quite well.
And I fully understand about pressure. I also understand we will be VERY vulnerable to two TE sets as it stands now. We will be vulnerable at short to intermediate slant routes.
I would have been very happy with more than a few of the FA CB's available. None of which I consider to be great CB's, but very serviceable ones. We don't even have that.
And saying we will find one in round 3 is a big gamble. And which LBer's do we have that we can depend on to drop back in coverage?
You can go on and on all you wish, but we don't have a serviceable secondary, we have a VERY poor secondary. Big difference and if we don't do something, somehow to seriously address that, it will show all too well.
Saying it won't doesn't make it so.
And remember this, both the Steelers and Ravens know this type of D because they play it and practice against it every week. It won't be some foreign animal to them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Our CBs will be better because of the pressure we'll bring. Pressure makes coverage guys better, and constant, intense pressure makes them better still.
I gave 2 examples of teams that have played 3rd round, 4th round, and other CBs, and been successful doing so. There is no reason we can't do the same, if we can consistently bring pressure.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I'm hoping you're right. I just know from experience that more times than not, 3rd and 4th round talent is more of the project variety that don't pan out more often than do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
If a team is giving up their 2nd rounder, I think they'll want a physical on Sheard. I don't see them risking that pick without knowing he is healthy. And once that pick is gone, no way for the trade partner to get it back. Not saying it won't/hasn't been done, but I bet we evaluate our LBs and Sheard's transition and if we still want a trade it will be around the start of the season for a 2014 draft pick.
Trading up to Round 2? I've got no problem giving up our 3rd and a couple late rounders if we see the right guy. CB, FS, TE, G. I don't care. our roster is overstocked in late-round picks, got plenty of young projects. We Need more starters.
Is there a question about Sheards Health?
What did I miss?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
CB's: Jamar Taylor (Boise); Johnathan Banks (Miss. St.); David Amerson (NC St.) Safety: DJ Swearinge (S. Carolina); Bacarri Rambo (Georgia); Shamarko Thomas (Syracuse); Phillip Thomas (Fresno State)
Other good peeps: DT: Jesse Williams (Alabama); Johnathan Hankins (THE Ohio State Buckeyes) DE: William Gholston (Mich St.); Margus Hunt (SMU); C/OG: Barrett Jones (Alabama); Brian Schwenke (Cal) TE: Zach Ertz (Stanford); Jordan Reed (FL); Travis Kelce (Cincinnati); Gavin Escobar (San Diego St.); Stoneburner (THE Ohio State Buckeyes); Nick Kasa (Colorado) WR Speed: Markus Wheaton (Oregon St) WR Possession: Keenan Allen (Cal); Ryan Swope (Texas A&M) WR Combo Possession/Speed: Justin Hunter (Tennessee); Robert Woods (USC); Quinton Patton (Louisiana Tech)
A lot of good talent still left in the pool. I foresee a big push for QB's and Receivers in the second. Don't forget no one took a RB. We should see plenty of good CB's and Safeties fall into the third round. In my opinion, I think it would be bigger help if Browns get a safety.
Quote: People seem to think having 4 good pass rushers is a bad idea.
Oh, it's great....I'd also like 4 good WRs and 4 good Gs and 4 good CBs, oh wait....we only have one, mabye we should get a 2nd good CB first before we get a good 3rd/4th pass rusher. People want to love the pick because they're homers, if we picked Milliner half the board would be saying "thank god we didn't go Mingo over Milliner"
Funny enough you were the only one in the other thread who had Mingo as a category 1 player labeling him "a bust waiting to happen". That's exactly why I opened that thread and it's quite telling that no one has the guts or knowledge to say what he wants the Browns to do with pick 68....after the fact "homerism" is guaranteed
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Quote: Oh, it's great....I'd also like 4 good WRs and 4 good Gs and 4 good CBs, oh wait....we only have one, mabye we should get a 2nd good CB first before we get a good 3rd/4th pass rusher. People want to love the pick because they're homers, if we picked Milliner half the board would be saying "thank god we didn't go Mingo over Milliner"
Who is running the defense Jauron or Horton? I'd agree having two CB's is important for Jauron, but not in Horton's schemes, you need pass rushers.
If we had your list of 4's above, how sweet we wouldn't have drafted early!!!
Quote: Just so you know, Bugs, Swope had the fastest 40 time of all the wideouts you listed there...
I debated where to put him. To me, I wouldn't put him in the same category as Tavon Austin (speed receiver). His size is right on the bubble as a pure possession receiver. You could say both speed/possession. In the end, I placed as a possession. The real question: Is he a better option than Norwood, Cooper, or Benjamin? I believe he'd put up a good fight.
Of course, the Banner/Lombardi haters will try and push their agenda ad nauseum. Who in their right mind would take a flyer on a guy coming off 5 frickin' surgeries? I don't care how minor, if you've had 5 surgeries before taking your first hit in the NFL, you have durability issues.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg)
