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Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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never mind... i found them.:
Milliner played his junior year with a torn labrum and had surgery following the season, his fifth career surgery. The other surgeries: right knee scope, sports hernia, right tibia stress fracture and another shoulder surgery.
http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/04/nfl_draft_2013_jets_select_ala.html
Shoulders are nothing, the knee scope and stress fracture are all that I'd even remotely worry about.
It's all much ado about nothing. Way overblown.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c He also studied at the Moscow (Russia) Sports Institute during the summers of 1985 and 1986,
About the time " Rocky IV" was popular. Hmm, hmmmm, wonder how that went.
And I'm not talking about drugs, I'm talking about the cold war. They probably didn't show those american movies in Moscow. ( Rocky IV, Spies like us, Firefox, ).
Carry on.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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That time was actually the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union. I'm not sure any of the political upheaval found its way to USSR athletic federations that quickly. But I suspect Roll got exposed to some old school strongman training techniques (body weight,kettlebells, etc.) while he was over there.
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I did not have Mingo in my top 30 players and I even had a late 2nd early 3rd round grade on him because he really has poor hand technique. Guys with poor hand usage and projected as a pass rusher generally do not do well in the NFL. They just dont have the talent to add different moves to their repertoire.
This pick imho has total bust written all over it but, he does however have several things going for him that could change it into a boom. Right system, excellent teacher of technique, Freakish athleticism, he is a smart kid that likes to work.
There are some bad picks but more often it is good players in bad situations that leads to bust. I really love the situation that he is coming into. The defense has good chemistry together and now they have a Buddy Ryan type of motivator for the unit.
He gets to go against Joe Thomas every day in practice and he has good players all around him. Kruger, Sheard, DQ, Robertson, Bryant, Winn, Taylor, Rubin, Haden and Ward are very talented. He will also have guys that want his spot if he doesnt show up every day. Sheard isn't gonna lay down and Armonty Bryant looks like Deacon Jones in his youtube video.
If he fails, he was just a very bad choice because everything is set up for him to be successful.
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Mingo has pretty violent hands at the line of scrimmage. The way he uses them is raw and unrestrained in a way (sometimes, not all of the time), but I still certainly wouldn't call his hand usage "poor." It's actually way above average for a rookie pass rusher IMO.
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I agree with the word "violent" to describe his hands. He can really jolt a blocker. He also has an amazing first step, excellent burst, and almost freak like body bend. I love the way he explodes through his tackles in the backfield, whether the RB or the QB. I also think that he has the raw speed to catch most RB in the backfield if he gets a clear path type lane to them. He also has an uncanny ability to change directions seemingly without losing speed. I am feeling better and better about this kid the more I watch of his play. He got shoved into a contain role frequently, which I think wasted his talents ..... but it did show some of his versatility. I can't wait to see him on our defense getting after opposing QBs. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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he does however have several things going for him that could change it into a boom. Right system, excellent teacher of technique, Freakish athleticism, he is a smart kid that likes to work.
That's exactly how I feel about the pick.I was disappointed at first because I really wanted Milliner, but if ever a kid fit a particular defense, it's Mingo fitting in Hoton's role for him.
I remember watching the Falcons play the Browns at the stadium a few years ago. They had J. Abraham. The guy did not play every down, but when he came in he was a terror. He was always fresh and he went after the QB. That guy gave Joe Thomas more problems than anyone I have ever seen.
I don't see Mingo as an every down player. I do see him coming in and getting after the QB. I think they will keep him fresh and then turn him loose. There will be people complaining because he isn't a 3-down player this coming year, but it's all about production. Guys like Charles Haley, Abraham, Suggs, etc have forged very nice careers as specialists.
I do think Mingo's role will increase over the years, but I think he will still be effective early in his career because he is the right fit for Horton's defense.
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Of course not changing our systems is very key as his value could change. But I believe his speed was good enough to college n he did not have a reason to perfect other things. Only the lack of tackling prowess bothers me a little bit.
Mourgrym...see n that is why this is tough, you say 30 something even 2nd 3rd rounder n yet I don't think there was one Web site that came close to agreeing with you. Sometimes we got to let go of OUR PERSONAL RANKINGS based on what? n have to start trusting our Personnel guys rankings. We cannot say any longer that our history demands it. I started trusting Heckert n it is continuing with Banner/Lombardi. I think they did a good to great job. This pick is key n they didn't go SAFE PICK for perception they went for somebody they really liked n by all purposes were in about every sites Top 16 (half). Considering he didn't fit any 4-3 D - but over some years n the conditioning strength increases he'll be able to put his hand down in varied looks.
The key in making this a great pick...have the lead in the 4th quarter!!!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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A lot of good post this morning. Just a few thoughts... I can definitely see Mingo initially rotating in, like Aldon Smith was brought along. It hasn't been talked about much but I see examples on tape that he gets good leverage at the POA. I would described his hand use as unrefined or under developed at this point. He does display that ability but not consistently.
What do you guys think? Being responsible for containment as he was at LSU does that somehow lessen the need for a lot of advance hand technique? He wasn't trying to shed and go after the ball so much on those plays.
Last edited by guard dawg; 05/04/13 09:10 AM.
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hand use - not too hard to teach. Also different from hand in dirt right in front of the OT compared with OLB moving around n approaching the OT. More important is his ability to dip his shoulder - the most used hand technique for pass rushers is the chop...n continue the shoulder dip with the chop. Most used cause its virtually unstoppable n every good Pass rusher wants to perfect that move over others. A kid with a first step like Mingo puts him in such a good place as LTs must use those long arms to slow down his outside rush...where the chop comes in...without that quick first step it is less effective.
Then you can learn stage 2 stuff as in the goal would be to get the LT to have his shoulder parallel with the sidelines due to that quick step - this is 101 mistake for an OT it invites for the Inside move as an over commitment to the outside rush. Yes a good wrist slap n inside rush boom SACK. What is great n I've said it several times only cause you cannot teach it n very few have it. Mingo has that unbelievable first step. His willing to learn n work hard has him about as Cannot Miss as it gets as a superior pass rusher. Running...obvious running downs right now I would expect Sheard in there.
 JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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he does however have several things going for him that could change it into a boom. Right system, excellent teacher of technique, Freakish athleticism, he is a smart kid that likes to work.
That's exactly how I feel about the pick.I was disappointed at first because I really wanted Milliner, but if ever a kid fit a particular defense, it's Mingo fitting in Hoton's role for him.
I remember watching the Falcons play the Browns at the stadium a few years ago. They had J. Abraham. The guy did not play every down, but when he came in he was a terror. He was always fresh and he went after the QB. That guy gave Joe Thomas more problems than anyone I have ever seen.
I don't see Mingo as an every down player. I do see him coming in and getting after the QB. I think they will keep him fresh and then turn him loose. There will be people complaining because he isn't a 3-down player this coming year, but it's all about production. Guys like Charles Haley, Abraham, Suggs, etc have forged very nice careers as specialists.
I do think Mingo's role will increase over the years, but I think he will still be effective early in his career because he is the right fit for Horton's defense.
Great post.
I think Mingo will be a rotational player for the next two years. When Sheard's contract runs out (the only edge rusher on the team who's shown evidence of being stout against the running game), I can see Mingo possibly becoming an every-down player.
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Are you out of traction?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Tab there is very little independent thought that goes into most of these rankings anymore. I had Burfict as a 6th rounder last year when every site was pimping him as a 1st rounder. I trust my eyes more than I trust a Mayock and Kiper. Those guys spend to much time trying to convince themselves they are right. Like with Robert Gallery and his short arms should not matter because he has such good feet. My scouting report had him as a guard because of his T-Rex arms. I took more crap for bashing Gallery than a port-a-potty at a chilli cook off. Elvis Dummerville I had a top 10 ranking on him, loved his hands. Now I was wrong on Demarcus Ware, you called that one. Hopefully you are right on this one. Again, I see many of the tools but I really like pass rushers that can extend to keep the tackles paws at a distance. We will see. Plus you can't help but like a guy that reminds me of the Johny cash song, Boy named Sue. KeKe what was his momma thinking. Anyway I will put my rankings up against kiper and Mayock any day of the week and whoop their ass on every Sunday lol. Rob Rang is probably my favorite prognosticator.
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http://youtu.be/YgfI4ua6dDwcheck his sports science special. tried to post it but having trouble.
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Quote:
http://youtu.be/YgfI4ua6dDw
check his sports science special. tried to post it but having trouble.
WOW ... I see alot of batted passes for us ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Always find those interesting - let's hope it translates to he field
<><
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j/c
Being provided with cover by the ' Roethlisberger broke both legs" hoax that popped up today. I feel that what I want to say is far less controversial.
With everything I've been able to read and all the tape I've been able to see on Mingo I'm ready to go on record that I think he will become a star in this league. At sometime within the next three years he'll be viewed in a way similar to Von Miller or JJ Watt.
That is all...
Last edited by guard dawg; 05/05/13 05:37 PM.
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Would love to see him become similar to JJ or Mller but those are high expectations!
<><
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Mingo is gonna be a stud. I'll admit I was pretty furious when we took him. I looked at the stats and just didnt see a 6th overall pick.
Then I watched the tape...
Not highlights, just game tape. And his 4.5 sacks dont come close to doing him justice. Dude is a beast. I was a huge fan of Dion Jordan and throughout the entire offseason that is who I wanted more than anything. But after watching so much tape on both of them I actually think I like Mingo better. Plays a lot faster and more aggressive. Not to mention that he was VASTLY under-utilized at LSU, and will work much better as a 3-4 LB where he can play in space more. And I find it laughable when people question whether he will be able to do things like drop in cover. Watch his position drills at the combine, dude has fluid hips, athleticism out of this world, and is a basketball player. Once he gets his instincts up he will EXCEL in coverage.
Yes he needs to put on some weight and get a bit stronger but he plays MUCH stronger than he looks. And isnt nearly as bad against the run as people say. I feel like people just hear a "draft expert" say something and just run with it.
Does need to start finishing plays better, but hes young in football years. Cant wait to watch him play.
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Yeah, Mingo is underrated in coverage. He's already good and going to become better.
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Yeah, Mingo is underrated in coverage. He's already good and going to become better.
+1
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Yeah he played some safety and corner in high school.
And his athletic measurables from the combine are better than Tyler Eifert's. The #1 TE from the draft and someone he might be covering a lot for some time!
And no I dont think the combine AKA the Underwear Olympics says too much about how they play on the field, but components from those drills like speed, change of direction, ability to turn your hips are all necessary for good coverage skills. And you cant teach athleticism. So there is no excuse for him not to excel in dropping back.
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I see pro's and con's with the pick in general, but with that said I could say that with any pick in which the Browns decided to go in any round. I see it like this: Switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 tells me one thing, the Browns need more DL in order to fill the rotation. It's a numbers game and it sounds like Mingo can fill a role which is needed for the Browns to make the transition to the 4-3 scheme. Injuries happen to people at any given time be it prior or after the pick so I personally don't need to nit pick but can understand the move because he was a major need position wise for the Browns to achieve their goal in making the 4-3 transition. I see him right now as an able body to fill a rotation role for the Browns since he is not going to be a full time player on the DL nor will anyone else, but his position is a need in the rotation. Time will tell if he will succeed or fail, it is a wait and see process for me, but overall I see it as at least a "fill in the blank" move. He has the skill set, now how he adapts and produces is wait and see for me. I can only hope for the best in the overall grand scheme of the Browns goal and wish him the best.
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I see pro's and con's with the pick in general, but with that said I could say that with any pick in which the Browns decided to go in any round. I see it like this: Switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 tells me one thing, the Browns need more DL in order to fill the rotation. It's a numbers game and it sounds like Mingo can fill a role which is needed for the Browns to make the transition to the 4-3 scheme. Injuries happen to people at any given time be it prior or after the pick so I personally don't need to nit pick but can understand the move because he was a major need position wise for the Browns to achieve their goal in making the 4-3 transition. I see him right now as an able body to fill a rotation role for the Browns since he is not going to be a full time player on the DL nor will anyone else, but his position is a need in the rotation. Time will tell if he will succeed or fail, it is a wait and see process for me, but overall I see it as at least a "fill in the blank" move. He has the skill set, now how he adapts and produces is wait and see for me. I can only hope for the best in the overall grand scheme of the Browns goal and wish him the best.
OK, I'm confused .....
The Browns played a 4-3 last year, and are switching to a 3-4 this season. They are stacked at DL, and they did also add their 7th round pick who will play DE as well. (if he is able to make the team)
They added OLB this off-season, in an attempt to fill this vitally important position in the 3-4 defense. They added Kruger. Groves, and Mingo, and have Sheard making the transition to OLB as well. Mingo will play OLB, not DE as he did in college.
I think you mixed things up a little there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I see pro's and con's with the pick in general, but with that said I could say that with any pick in which the Browns decided to go in any round. I see it like this: Switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 tells me one thing, the Browns need more DL in order to fill the rotation. It's a numbers game and it sounds like Mingo can fill a role which is needed for the Browns to make the transition to the 4-3 scheme. Injuries happen to people at any given time be it prior or after the pick so I personally don't need to nit pick but can understand the move because he was a major need position wise for the Browns to achieve their goal in making the 4-3 transition. I see him right now as an able body to fill a rotation role for the Browns since he is not going to be a full time player on the DL nor will anyone else, but his position is a need in the rotation. Time will tell if he will succeed or fail, it is a wait and see process for me, but overall I see it as at least a "fill in the blank" move. He has the skill set, now how he adapts and produces is wait and see for me. I can only hope for the best in the overall grand scheme of the Browns goal and wish him the best.
Yeah you are way off on this.
And even though people didnt think we had a need at OLB we did. Kruger and Sheard are both unproven to be star pass rushers. So we definitely didnt draft a player at #6 overall for the sole purpose of adding depth. And definitely not as just another body in case of injuries like is said in this post.
We drafted him to be our star pass rusher. Sure he may be a situational pass rusher in year one, like Aldon Smith and Bruce Irvin, but he will eventually be an every down player.
It is a bit concerning that we only seem to be addressing our pass rush and not our run defense. Kruger is suspect against the run and so is Sheard, not to mention we dont know whether he will transition to the 3-4 well at all. And Mingo isnt as bad against the run as people say, but he isnt a brute yet. Bryant, Rubin, Taylor and DQ, Robertson, JMJ are gonna be asked to carry the load in the run game.
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I might have confused people some because I still consider last year part of the transition period, the start, but I see him as being able to do both DE/OLB, well I hope which is a good thing but I see him as if he is going to be part of the rotation, I just don't want to see him over used in situations that are not warranted, ie... third and one, he may but until he actually plays a game or two we as fans will not know the full extent of how he will be utilized. I just don't want to label him just yet as a true LB that could just be "talk" right now and it will continue until we get to see him in action. I hope I clarified my comments.
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I might have confused people some because I still consider last year part of the transition period, the start, but I see him as being able to do both DE/OLB, well I hope which is a good thing but I see him as if he is going to be part of the rotation, I just don't want to see him over used in situations that are not warranted, ie... third and one, he may but until he actually plays a game or two we as fans will not know the full extent of how he will be utilized. I just don't want to label him just yet as a true LB that could just be "talk" right now and it will continue until we get to see him in action. I hope I clarified my comments.
No I think your a little confused haha. We are transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Last year we didnt change our defense at all, we have been a 4-3 since Mangina left.
Regardless, none of that matters. All that matter is that we are going to be a 3-4 and he will play OLB, so yes he will be a "true" OLB. Thats not speculation. He will not be able to play DE in our base 3-4 package because 3-4 DE are not the same as 4-3 DE. 3-4 DE are more similar to DTs than 4-3 DEs.
He will probably play some DE in our sub-packages on 3rd down and obvious passing downs, where the DE is told to rush the passer.
You were saying that we are switching to a 4-3 and need more DL which is not the case. We are absolutely set at DL especially since we are switching to the 3-4.
Last edited by CLEBrowns216; 05/06/13 10:20 AM.
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To each their own brother. The Browns were not a true 4-3 last year, we didn't have the depth, is that debatable? Sure, but until the transition is complete, which it isn't I don't find the need to debate it. I would like for the D to be able to do both, play a 4-3 or 3-4 when needed and think Mingo gives us a good opportunity to do so. We all see things different and I can respect any opinion, I just am not going to flat out say your confused. We all want the same thing, a winner, how the team gets there is how players fill the role. If I am wrong so be it, I care about wins, no matter who does what and how. I don't argue with other fans nor will I ever try and label them since I hope we all want the same outcome and that is to win. Call me whatever you want but I am only a fan, as I hope you are as well.
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Didnt mean to offend you or anything. But in your post you said that we were confused about what you said. So I just said you were confused haha. No harm intended.
But as far as our base defensive set, there's not really an argument there. Just concrete fact haha. Ray Horton has come out and said our base D will be 3-4. And pretty much every move we have made in the offseason was done to run that D. Of course we will have multiple fronts/sub packages but our base package is going to be 3-4. Like our base package was 4-3 last year. I guess I'm just confused as to what alignment you saw us running.
But to each his own I guess.
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Hate to be a jerk, but guys--you are both a bit off.
We did play a true 4-3 last year.
We are NOT strictly playing a 3-4 this year. Horton has been very clear that he is going to have 3 man fronts, 4 man fronts, and even 5 man fronts. His philosophy is to have multiple fronts.
Carry on........
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Hate to be a jerk, but guys--you are both a bit off.
We did play a true 4-3 last year.
We are NOT strictly playing a 3-4 this year. Horton has been very clear that he is going to have 3 man fronts, 4 man fronts, and even 5 man fronts. His philosophy is to have multiple fronts.
Carry on........
Yeah I said we played a 4-3 last year. And I said that our base defense this year will be a 3-4, but I know he wants to use multiple fronts/sub packages.
Anyways this conversation is pointless. Theres nothing to debate on this topic haha.
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I don't see you being a jerk, I agree. I want to see the Browns being able to do both, if they can, they can confuse an offense at any given point. I agree with your points. I might not word things correctly all the time, I am new here and I apologize if I sound confusing but that is on me since I need to work on wording my thoughts properly. I am nothing more then a fan, if I was better then that I wouldn't be posting on a forum, but running a team, LOL.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 47 |
Quote:
I don't see you being a jerk, I agree. I want to see the Browns being able to do both, if they can, they can confuse an offense at any given point. I agree with your points. I might not word things correctly all the time, I am new here and I apologize if I sound confusing but that is on me since I need to work on wording my thoughts properly. I am nothing more then a fan, if I was better then that I wouldn't be posting on a forum, but running a team, LOL.
Dont worry about it Im new here too.
And yeah I completely agree, being able to use multiple fronts will be great. And we will definitely be able to considering we have a lot of our personnel from last year's 4-3. Plus Mingo and Kruger who can both play DE along with Sheard. Our D should be good. I look forward to seeing Flacco, Ben and Dalton on their asses a lot 
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 68
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 68 |
It is all good my fellow Browns fan, I take nothing personal, I dig the insight I have seen on this forum and love the Browns, but it looks like we are all in a way on the same page and wish nothing more then the best for the Browns. My care is wins over losses not size or weight. I just want a winner no matter who plays what position and how they achieve their role. Just bring us a winner.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Horton was very clear in his radio interview that we're playing the 34 and the only thing hybrid that he knows is in his golf bag.
Then he tucked tail in the presser and he sang the company tune for the media.
We're playing the 34.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
I'm being serious. (for once!) I believe we're going to be in the 34 look just as much as the Steelers. The talk about a "hybrid" defense was to placate the 43 crowd.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
So was Horton feeding us a line with the "we will be a multi-front attacking defense"stuff? I thought he was being honest. Guess we'll find out just how "multi" our front is come August.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Since it's possible you and Vers didn't see this: Akron Beacon Journal Link New Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton made a definitive statement Thursday during an interview with Arizona radio station XTRA Sports 910-AM. Horton said he will run a 3-4 defense in Cleveland. “It won’t be a hybrid, not unless we’re playing golf,” said Horton, who served as the Arizona Cardinals’ defensive coordinator the past two seasons. “It’ll be a 3-4. It’ll be the same defense we ran here [in Arizona].” The Browns used a 4-3 scheme the past two seasons under defensive coordinator Dick Jauron. But Horton said the Browns’ new defensive system will mirror that of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who he spent seven seasons with as a defensive backs coach. Browns coach Rob Chudzinski reiterated Thursday night during the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards that his team will use 3-4 and 4-3 alignments. “We’re going to do both,” Chudzinski said. “We’re going to have packages where we do both of those.” However, four-man fronts might be seldom used by the Browns. After all, Browns owner Jimmy Haslam also said Thursday night he expects Horton to bring a 3-4 scheme to Cleveland. Haslam bought a minority stake in the Steelers in 2008, so he’s familiar with Horton and the type of defense he wants to run. “Of course, we knew him from the Steelers and when we interviewed him for this job, [he was] fired up, intense,” Haslam said. “I think he’ll relate extremely well to players. I think the players will like him. Probably we’ll switch to the 3-4 defense. I think it’ll be an attacking defense. “I think he told me in Phoenix with the Arizona Cardinals that he blitzed more than anybody in the league except for the Houston Texans. So I think it’ll be exciting and fun to watch. He’s really excited about the players we have here. We need to add one or two to really round out the team. But I think you’ll like him as a person and like him as a coach.” Horton is expected to meet with the media Tuesday at the Browns’ headquarters in Berea, Haslam said.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) "Son Of Barkevious Mingo" [Mingo
Draft, part deux]
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