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They did dummie it down to take the ball out of his hands..and no I did not mention the others in that sentence because I didn't think I needed to ...but the reality is they also had a problem with the other players not being on the same page...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/05/07 12:09 PM.
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Toad,, the key word in my statement about judging players is "FAIRLY"
Anyone can judge a player,,, sure,, I can see that, but can they do that FAIRLY,,,, that I don't think can be done when there are a host of other issues that effect that players performance... Too much guess work involved.
I won't/can't look at Couch or Green,,, both those guys had too many different circumstances for it to equate for me... As for you being right about them,,, well,, that's terrific, but you have been wrong before also.. so which should I rely on this time... Get my point on that,, not knocking you, but just because you were right about one thing doesn't make you right about everything..
but of course, it's JMO,,,, in the grand scheme of things,, My opinion and a buck will get you a cup of coffee... (not at starbucks,,,you'll need my opinion and about 3 bucks)
#GMSTRONG
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What?! I've been wrong?!
Are you sure?  
I used them as examples to prove that it's very possible to judge players based on their own merits. In the case of Willy Green, don't take my word for it. Take the leagues word for it. He didn't play on great teams, yet he's out of the league. Same for Lee Suggs.
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My opinion and a buck will get you a cup of coffee... (not at starbucks,,,you'll need my opinion and about 3 bucks)
Nice quip
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They did dummie it down to take the ball out of his hands
Now it could be just me and my memory,,, But I do remember them saying they were going to simplfy the plays after Mo was booted or quit or whatever he did... But I never heard or even got the impression they were dumbing it down specifically to take the ball out of Fryes hands..
I do however seem to remember someone saying they intend to try to run the ball more...
Now I don't know if that is an Indictment of Frye or of Carthon.. did they want to get the ball out of Fryes hands or did they realize that they weren't running the ball enough,, Which is it?
In either case, I still don't 'remember anyone saying they wanted to the ball out of Fryes hands for the sake of Frye,,,,
Thus the difference in our thinking ,,,,,,, I think 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Quote:
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My opinion and a buck will get you a cup of coffee... (not at starbucks,,,you'll need my opinion and about 3 bucks)
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Nice quip
Wanna know the sad truth,,, it may take my opinion and more than 3 bucks to get coffee at starbucks,,,,,and to be honest, I think thier coffee really really sucks... Horrible
#GMSTRONG
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I cannot remember the game but one was just before Mo got booted , there was a article about him dumming down the play calling after Frye was throwing picks in the endzone.
How many times did that happen anyway?
After Mo got booted Davidson put his stamp on the playcalling but he didn't use a vertical attack until DA got to play..but DA is horrible throwing deep passes but he was releasing the ball quicker..so that really didn't work..
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I didn't want to say it, but yeah, their damned coffee can easily cost more than 3 bucks, hehehe.
I started carrying Starbucks as our regular coffee last year. Damned crap is expensive *L* However, the guests just cream themselves when they find out they get free Starbucks coffee out in the lobby all day long. I laugh because I HATE coffee, and cringe when a guest goes into a 5-minute monologue regarding just how great Starbucks is
By the way D, I do remember articles talking about how Davidson scaled the offense back because of Frye. It's highly unlikely that I'd be able to produce them though. I won't debate the merits of such a move as it's neither here nor there to me.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Your memory is faulty. The offense was "dumbed down" because WRs were running the wrong routes, lining up incorrectly, and the wrong blocking schemes were being used for the wrong plays. Attack is right it came out right the Ravens game with the crucial pick in the endzone. What he left out, though, was that the INT was a result of Harrison not using the correct blocking rules that allowed the backside pressure to cause the INT as Frye was hit on the throw. It truly amazes me how people rewrite history to justify their assessment(s) of football. Face it, if you put all the football knowledge on ths board together, including you and me toad (though that hurts you to see LOL), it doesn't come near that of anyone on the staff. Yet we try to make assessments based on lack of knowledge, rewriting of history, and uncomfirmed rumors. 
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Sorry,, I meant to comment on this,, but started laughing when I realized that even with my opinion, it would take more money to get coffee at starbucks than 3 bucks,,, couldn't help it Quote:
I used them as examples to prove that it's very possible to judge players based on their own merits. In the case of Willy Green, don't take my word for it. Take the leagues word for it. He didn't play on great teams, yet he's out of the league. Same for Lee Suggs.
I really believe that Green would have gotten another shot somewhere if it hadn't been for his drug issues,,, 1 more strike and he would be gone for good so what team in thier right mind would take that chance,,,, As for Suggs,, the kid was totally talented,, you know that.. he just couldn't stay healthy,,, now what team is gonna take that risk on.... I doubt that many will..
Couch is a different story,, Yes, I do believe that he was ruined here. he was rushed into the game way too soon.. and without a supporting cast,, even worse than the one that Charlie has now for that matter... He got killed out there... THUS the injury issues... that arm will never be the same.,
But yet, every year, except this one, he has been rumored to be going here or there.. that tells me that there could still be interest in him if he were capable..
As for whether or not he would have ever amounted to anything, I'm honestly not sure we will ever know for sure given that arm issue...
Tommy Maddox was written off in Denver,,, was out of football for years,,, but put him on a good team (steelers) and he all of a sudden didn't look so bad there for a while did he...until he got hurt that is..
Just a thought and just an opinion,,,, and you know what my opinion will get you
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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No the Rats games wasn't the one I was thinking of..we were all debating who's fault that was..
There was another game he throw picks in the endzone or throw into coverage in the endzoneIt might have been the same game we tried that dreaded FB toss...(same game??).or the week before.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/05/07 12:43 PM.
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Yet we try to make assessments based on lack of knowledge, rewriting of history, and uncomfirmed rumors.
it's really none of that coachb,, it's the perception that we know more than the professionals that actually get paid to do this work.....
Which of course is a total crock... we don't know beans...
#GMSTRONG
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I remember RAC saying the team wasn't showing any consistancy in their playing and wanted to find a few good plays that worked and build on them. I MAY be wrong..but I really doubt it.  He's not the kind of coach that knocks players publicly.
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No the Rats games wasn't the one I was thinking of..we were all debating who's fault that was..
There was another game he throw picks in the endzone or throw into coverage in the endzoneIt might have been the same game we tried that dreaded FB toss...(same game??).or the week before.
Houston, we were about to score and he threw an ugly duck.
Some argue that Braylon didn't go up and get it, I could see that argument, but it didn't look catchable from where Braylon was. I couldn't tell if it was a bad route or a bad throw, but the throw was an ugly wobbler.
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No the Houston was the last game of the year..it might have been the Carolina game ..
I know he threw two picks against the Raiders the previous week then 2 in the Panther's game.
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No the Houston was the last game of the year..it might have been the Carolina game ..
I know he threw two picks against the Raiders the previous week then 2 in the Panther's game.
You mean the Raiders game where Frye led a Browns record for largest comeback in a game by throwing for 3 TD's.
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Will this help you http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/552508/splits/2006The game that killed his stats for the year really was Cinci,,, 6 picks in one game,, That may have been the second worst showing I've ever witnessed by a Browns team,,, the first was the very first game of the rebirth in 1999 against Pittsburgh.. man we just stunk that game up bad,,, what was that score,,,, 6000 to nothing 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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U mean 2 picks..if the kid had six..that would have never died down.
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That link I gave you points toward the stats page on the main Browns site and Unless I"m a total dummy,, it says he had 6 INTs in the Cinci game
I tried cutting and pasting,, but it's hard to read,,, go to the link and see for yourself
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/05/07 02:49 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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PARTIALLY noncomprehending..or totally not reading it correctly  First Cincy game.. He was 20-33 244yds 0 TDS 2 INT'S Second Cincy game 18-29 186 yds 0 tds 4 ints Total of 6 picks in both games.. 
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Oh geez,,, yeah,,, it says 2 games,,, so 6 picks in 2 games,, but the one game was still a horrible game,, they just owned both our Defense and our Offense ....second worst since 99 in my mind...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Face it, if you put all the football knowledge on ths board together, including you and me toad (though that hurts you to see LOL), it doesn't come near that of anyone on the staff.
Hurts me to see? Hell, I think I just went AT LEAST color blind
I recall that the offense was simplified (I hate the term dumbed down) for EVERYONE including Frye because all the positions were having issues. I should have worded that correctly.
So let's go with that and assume that none of us know a hill-o-beans about all this (though we know that isn't the case; disclaimer/off *L*). The staff has said that Derek freakin' Anderson has closed the gap on Frye.
Ouch.
Fact: The team likes Anderson
Fact: They didn't go with a vet last year out of respect for Frye
Fact: They are now looking at vets and considering QB's in the draft
I may not be the smarest toad in the pond, but everything I'm seeing from the organization says that Frye isn't viewed as a guy who's issues are other players faults. I don't.....wouldn't......couldn't.....deny that other players didn't help him, but again, I'm basing most of what I see based on what he's done when given the chance. Sure, he did good against the Faiders. But he didn't keep that kind of play up. His escapability far exceeds what I thought he had in him, and I consider it to be his biggest asset. But it's the rest of his game that makes him questionable, and even if I didn't know squat about football, I do know the team is not in love with him the way they were at this time last year. That's one thing I don't believe anyone can really deny.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad, You really do have a unique writing style man,,, even when I disagree with you, it's still fun to read your posts..LOL
Ok, on to the thoughts
Fact: The team likes Anderson
I'm sure they do, but what does that mean
Fact: They didn't go with a vet last year out of respect for Frye
I highly doubt that.. if they were the least bit concerned, common sense says that they would have found a Vet to bring in.. if they didn't believe in him, not bringing in somebody out of respect for what essentially was a rookie QB is insane,, I don't think either Savage or RAC are that stupid
Fact: They are now looking at vets and considering QB's in the draft
My hope is that they would always keep an open mind about all positions but mostly about Receivers, QB's, linemen (either o or d) and DB's,,
But more importantly, how do you know they are seriously looking at a vet or a QB in the draft,, please don't say you have read it in the paper or on here or seen it on ESPN or CNN or one of those,,, that doesn't make it a fact...
While it could be true, all that stuff you read could also be nothing more than SMOKE (my apologies to peen, I know you don't think there is that much smoke being floated)..
I don't think any of your facts are actually facts.. except maybe that they like Anderson,, again, I'm betting that's true. But because they like Anderson, does that mean that don't like Frye? Probably not but in a few weeks, I have a feeling we will have more than one of our answers..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Do yourself a favor and read my article that's a couple posts above. Let me know what you learned about what was asked of Frye. IT actually goes hand in hand with Vers statement (paraphrased) "They asked an awful lot out of a young QB. Rather than protecting a youngster like you should"
Charlie made some bad decisions...More than bad decisions imo. Charlie made 'MANY' not just a few and continued throughout the course of the year.
It got to the point where they had to dumb down the offense and not let him throw deep and limit his attempts. I didn't see improvement either. His rating got better 'when' they took the ball out of his hands and tried to run more.
Also D.A. with far less experience showed how to read defenses and burn them when detecting blitzes, something I didn't see in Charlie after a seasons worth of games. Charlie was slow in recognizing his open receivers and seeing the entire field.
Charlie also made it harder on the OCs as well. Without being able to stretch the field defense's were able to load up and rush knowing Charlie wasn't going to beat them. This hampered the running game and limited what could be run.
He locks onto receivers, makes poor decisions, struggles reading defenses, and most importantly doesn't have the arm to make all the throws. When you have the big play threats like BE and KW2 getting a disproportionately large number of their catches on short routes, it's cause for alarm. These guys aren't being used properly, and it's because we don't have a QB.
Under Carthon Frye had 33.5 attempts per game
Under Davidson 34.4 attempts per game
Yeah, Davidson sure dumbed it dow to run more.
Of course Charlie made bad decisions he's a first year starter. While the line around him got worse due to injury - under a semi-competant OC his rating went way up. How's that not progress? We were 3-4 with Frye starting under Davidson, how is that not progress?
As for DA, he burned no one. He played 1/2 of a good game. They showed it during the Tampa Game - he was something like 44% with 0TDs and 6ints when the ball traveled over 10 yards in the air.
The fact you and Toad are ignoring is that he improved drastically from last year while the line got worse. On top of that you ignore the situations. You'll keep looking at the Cincy game and say "see he sucks he threw 4 ints." It was one game and I showed you the scenerio - you guys are the ones with blinders on.
Toad saying that 4th down from your own 12 while down by 30 is just an excuse, he shouldn't have thrown it. Yeahhhhh, that way he could have said "Frye didn't even try to throw it, we were down by 30 with 3 minutes left and it was 4th down." Keep riding that fence.
You are defying logic by thinking a first year starter isn't going to make bad decisions. I can show you a myriad of HOF QBs who started off making horrendous decisions - it's called developing a player. It's about time we did that, one way to start is to get protection for him. even if it doesn't end up being Frye in the long run - it's much smarter to build that line so the next guy can come into an ideal situation.
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I highly doubt that.. if they were the least bit concerned, common sense says that they would have found a Vet to bring in.. if they didn't believe in him, not bringing in somebody out of respect for what essentially was a rookie QB is insane,, I don't think either Savage or RAC are that stupid
Fact..they said they didn't want him looking over his shoulder..but if you're good..thats not a problem..now he's looking over his shoulder anyway.. They said DA closed the gap on him..how did that happen when DA didn't produce anything special? Soup
The fact you and Toad are ignoring is that he improved drastically from last year while the line got worse.  He ranked 26th out of 30 QB's..so where is this drastic improvement?
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/05/07 03:42 PM.
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PARTIALLY noncomprehending..or totally not reading it correctly
First Cincy game..
He was 20-33 244yds 0 TDS 2 INT'S
Second Cincy game
18-29 186 yds 0 tds 4 ints
Total of 6 picks in both games..
You really don't pay attention to articles you read do you.
Carolina - 1st int hit off Dropcutts hands and went the other way for a TD
Cincy - a hail mary at end of half one, then 2 down by 24 and one down by 30....nevermind, you are joking - but half of you is serious so I'll leave it alone. And had you read my article, you'd instantly know it was the Raiders game that he threw the endzone int you are referring to. Dumbest int in football history. It was essentially a scramble and a 6 yard hail mary.
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This place/a few posters really make me laugh sometimes.
[color:"white"]
Go Browns
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What are you clucking about? I'm talking to DAMAN..NOT U.. Why are you pasting my remark to him which has nothing to do with you're talking about??
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Soup
The fact you and Toad are ignoring is that he improved drastically from last year while the line got worse.
He ranked 26th out of 30 QB's..so where is this drastic improvement?
Quick note to refs and others on the board. I have bad poison ivy and just took 4 pills, my body never reacts well to pills - so I apologize if I have any incoherent ramblings.
1st half of the year:
Mo Carthon was OC - Charlie's rating: 67.3
Jeff Davidson as OC - Charlies rating: 77.3
Wow, you are so right, not one lick of improvemant. Though it did help when they lowered his average pass attempts per game from 33 to 34. Lowering it that negative 1 improved his rating a lot. Oh, wait - his attempts per game went up and so did his rating.
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Read my last post. It'll tip you off, my apologies
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Can you not read?
I said they did it for everyone INCLUDING FRYE..linemen, RB's..WR's..included..but also your QB.
The WR's consistantly ran the wrong routes,the OL couldn't block Bart Simpson,so they did it to help the QB too?
Makes sense?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Fact..they said they didn't want him looking over his shoulder
Wait a minute,, are you gonna try to make me believe that that statement is the basis for thinking they were worried about respecting Charlie
Tell you what, if that's what the thinking was, then RAC and Phil are perhaps the dumbest humans on the planet...
If they were the least little bit concerned about Charlie, then the respectful thing to do would have been MAN UP to him and tell him of the concerns, let him know the facts, then go out and get a Vet to cover and let Charlie either learn from him, or at least have him on the Bench for charlie to go to...
They didn't do that,, so I'm thinking you and Toad are reading this way wrong,,
But,,,It's JMO
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This is an article I wrote on another site. Pete, I'm just curious if in your timing you noticed the following. - before you read it - one more question. OF those 4 seconds you timed - how many were due to his scrambling? You seem to be a Frye detractor - let me know if your perception changes at all.
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Everyone is tired of arguing about Frye, but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to stop. After all, it’s essentially the end of free agency and the draft is 30 days away –so why not look a little closer? What can it hurt?
A lot has been made of the fact that Frye had 10 TD's to 17 INT's. Is that bad? Yes, it’s horrible. One thing we can all agree on is that it needs corrected. Another thing we can all agree on – a hail mary at the end of a half that’s picked is just a stat and nothing more – it does no harm. Frye had 1 hail mary interception – so the reality is he had 10 TD’s to 16 INT's. Still sucks, I know. Now let’s take a closer look at the other 16 INT's and see what situations they came in.
What do most teams in the NFL do when they are down by 10 or more points in the 4th quarter? Everyone all together now --- THROW. Yea, we all got the answer correct. 7 of his INT's came when we were down by 11 or more points. (5 of those we were down by 17 or more in the 4th quarter). Do you think they knew we were going to pass? I know when I watched I was surprised teams weren’t stacking 9 in the box. For those counting, that leaves 9 INT's left. I couldn’t remember every game with a “drop†that turned into a pick. 2 stick out for sure, the infamous Edwards vs. the Saints and Northcutt vs. Carolina. Two guaranteed passes that were off WR hands. That leaves 7 INT's left. Right now the Frye haters are saying, “Soup loves Frye – he’s making excuses". The logical people are saying, “That’s a horrible situation for a QB to be in.†How many QB's have success down by 17 in the 4th? Back to the other 7 INT's:
Vs. Saints – trailing by 6 in the first half.
Vs. Baltimore – up by 2 in the 4th. He was blind sided as he threw.
Vs. San Diego – up by 3 on a 1st down.
Vs. Oakland – down by 7 and the infamous one up by 3 in the 4th, quite possibly the worst idea by a QB in NFL history. 2nd and goal from the 6 he basically threw a hail mary that was picked off. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Not that this is an excuse – but what idiot of an OC is going to throw on 2nd and goal from the 6 in the 4th while up by 3 when you are having a great day running the ball? By the way, we won the game – Frye threw 3 TD’s.
Vs. New York Jets – up by 7 in the 2nd Q. We won the game and Frye also threw a TD
Vs. Houston – tied at 0, 2nd down in the red zone. Hurt wrist, he was supposed to be out for the year.
Without watching game film of those 7 that are left, the blind side can’t be blamed on Frye. 7 INT's in a bad situation, 2 off WR hands, 1 off a blind side and 6 that are his fault. 6 to truly blame in 13 games, how bad is that?
Everyone is thinking, “but Frye sucked vs. the Bengals in game 2 why isn’t that on here. It’s because Soup loves Frye so he won’t bring up that dismal performance.†The second Bengals game was by far Frye’s worst statistical performance with 0 TD’s and 4 INT's. I looked at play by play to get a better understanding of the game. Here’s what I found. Frye was 8-13 in the first half. His 14th pass was intercepted – it was a hail mary at the end of the half, we were down by 17. Frye then threw 2 INT's when we were down by 24 points. His final one, this is the one that cost us the game – we were down by 30 with 3 minutes left and it was 4th down from our own 12. Yep, Frye sure cost us that game. What a bum, huh? Too much is being made of Frye’s 4th Q INT's, especially when you need 3 scores in the 4th for the comeback.
Frye completed 64% of his passes on the year and was 9-12 on 3rd and short for 1st downs. Something that really stuck out (I preface this by saying Frye’s stats were removed by me); of the 13 games – 5 of them we had 17 or less carries, in 5 we had 21 to 24 carries, in the other 3 we had 26 or more carries. Can anyone guess which 3?
“OOOH, OOOOH, OOOOH, ME, MEâ€!
“Yes, Soup?â€
“Kansas City Chiefs, New York Jets and Oakland Raiders.â€
“That’s correct, in 3 of our 4 wins we ran the ball 26 or more times.â€
We carried the ball 23 times vs. Atlanta – we played great defense and Frye was mistake free. By the way, Reuben Droughns was 2nd to LAST in the AFC in YPC (yards per carry) on 1st down. Again, not a situation you should put any QB into. Bottom line, Frye wasn’t as bad as his stats show. The truth is the offense lacked a game plan and had a retarded OC ruin the first 7 games of the year. Not something you can blame on the QB.
Hmmmm....
If the man Soup can break things down in this manner, I wonder if the boys in Berea get this in-depth with things?
Also, Versatile Dawg made a very interesting post in this thread as well, I suggest some go re-read it...you dont find insight of that kind in any Newspaper or blog.
BTW, Frye and Anderson had on average 2.8 seconds to throw per play...theres your 3 second emphasis.
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And another question is,how much of that 2.8 did he "create" by his scrambling ability? Did the OL "give him" 2.8? Or did he "create" a lot of that 2.8 by his scrambling ability?
Hmmmmm?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
And another question is,how much of that 2.8 did he "create" by his scrambling ability? Did the OL "give him" 2.8? Or did he "create" a lot of that 2.8 by his scrambling ability?
Hmmmmm?
I'm not sure, I wasn't in Berea when those numbers were tabulated. But ya gotta wonder with a number so low and how many times Frye bought time with his feet... ...where was the blocking? For reference sake, (I think) The Browns looked at Cincy for comparison - where Palmer had on average 3.9 seconds to throw, and he's a statue.
I know elsewhere it's become an epidemical statement that Frye "ran into sacks"...which couldn't be further from the truth...Frye would have been the most sacked QB in the league if he didn't have escapability.
I really find it utterly amazing that in the span of 4 months the problem with the Cleveland Browns went from OL, OL, OL, OL to Charlie Frye. Funny what an off-season full of fans making things up in their minds, or taking sentences from articles and reading WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too far into them can do to perception.
Yeah, yeah, the kid has holes in his game (who thought a 3rd round pick from Akron was gonna be an All-Pro year 1?) but he's not the main/biggest issue on this team...if you think he is, you're kidding yourself.
Unfortunately, QBs like Charlie Frye/Trent Edwards/Troy Smith/Drew Stanton etc, etc, etc will never be able to grow in a city like Cleveland, fans don't have the wits enough to understand the time needed to develop.
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Charlie made some bad decisions...
100 percent correct IMO.
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It got to the point where they had to dumb down the offense and not let him throw deep and limit his attempts.
Once again 100 percent correct. HOWEVER the offense wasn't "dumbed" down for Frye, but for certain other Browns players. As far as not throwing deep You can't throw deep when your QB gets hit before your receivers can get 20 yards down field.
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Charlie was slow in recognizing his open receivers and seeing the entire field
I can agree with that also.
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Charlie also made it harder on the OCs as well. Without being able to stretch the field defense's were able to load up and rush knowing Charlie wasn't going to beat them. This hampered the running game and limited what could be run.
We couldn't stretch the field because teams knew we couldn't protect the QB, not because they thought Carlie had a wet noodle for an arm. We also couldn't run the ball because their were no holes to run thru, or the RB's were to slow getting to them.
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He locks onto receivers, makes poor decisions, struggles reading defenses,
Yep he sure does. As does any young QB who still needs time to learn.
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When you have the big play threats like BE and KW2 getting a disproportionately large number of their catches on short routes, it's cause for alarm. These guys aren't being used properly, and it's because we don't have a QB.
Your correct again about the cause for alarm, BUT the cause for alarm was with the horses up front. As far as BE and KW2 being used properly.... When they have time to run their patterns, learn to run their patterns, and in BE's case learn how to catch the damn ball they will be used properly.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Unfortunately, QBs like Charlie Frye/Trent Edwards/Troy Smith/Drew Stanton etc, etc, etc will never be able to grow in a city like Cleveland, fans don't have the wits enough to understand the time needed to develop.
Come on Mav. I have been preaching that the smart ones understand ever since Charlie was drafted.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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really find it utterly amazing that in the span of 4 months the problem with the Cleveland Browns went from OL, OL, OL, OL to Charlie Frye. Funny what an off-season full of fans making things up in their minds, or taking sentences from articles and reading WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too far into them can do to perception.
I don't think it "making things up" so much as thier perception of the truth. I'm not going to sit here and call a fellow dawg a liar, but some of them do need to step back and examine why they feel the way they do.
Most on here are reasonable people. But they get it in thier heads that this player or that player isn't any good and should be replaced, cut, fired, burned at the stake right now..no delay,,, just get them done... So hatred takes over instead of common sense...
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Unfortunately, QBs like Charlie Frye/Trent Edwards/Troy Smith/Drew Stanton etc, etc, etc will never be able to grow in a city like Cleveland, fans don't have the wits enough to understand the time needed to develop.
Careful Mav,,,, when you make comments like that you are likely to get flamed on here,,,, I said something similar a week ago,,, my butt is still burning. 
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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J/C
As a general question....who the heck is Owens anyway??
He coached Akron.....then was canned from what I gather.
I am not putting the guy down or anything, but something tells me Owens isn't exactly the guy GM's and NFL coaches seek out when they want the skinny on a player.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Who is Owens? I'll tell you who Owens is. He is one of the most successful high school coaches during his time before moving on to college. He was the tackles and tight ends coach at OSU that recruited and then developed players such as Korey Stringer, Orlando Pace, Rickey Dudley, Jason Taylor, and others. He was fired from Akron? OMG, he must be terrible. After all, no other coach that was successful has ever been fired at any point in his career, has he, Peen? You may have stated that there was "no disrespect", but to post such ignorant comments (and I"m using that term in it's purest form that you don't have a clue as to the man your disrespecting) disrespecting him. The man knows football. He has developed many college stars and NFL players. Orlando Pace credited him for his success. If Coach Owens is saying it, it is from a much more knowledgeable person than someone on a messageboard with no coaching experience.
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Wait a minute,, are you gonna try to make me believe that that statement is the basis for thinking they were worried about respecting Charlie
Tell you what, if that's what the thinking was, then RAC and Phil are perhaps the dumbest humans on the planet...
Daman that was quoted from Opie's own mouth..they DID NOT WANT A QB controversie..they need not want to pressure him..they wanted to evaluate him ALONE all season to see if he has it..
Tell you what..Soup and anyone else can bring in all the numbers U like but the kid ranked 26 out of 30 QB's..
Pit..even after they simplied the scheme did it really help?
And don't assume I don't understand all the other problems with the offense..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/06/07 07:20 AM.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Owens feels system changes
affecting Frye
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