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QB play will determine how many games we win
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I just looked over our schedule and project 5-7 wins. I'm not sure I could temper my expectations much more than that.
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He was a Rookie who made mistakes. You're right.
I also saw a guy who, for the most part, learned from those mistakes, which is really all you can ask from a Rookie QB.
I thought he got worse as the season went on (excluding the Philly game)
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I just looked over our schedule and project 5-7 wins. I'm not sure I could temper my expectations much more than that.
5-7 is a good season for this team... we regressed/possibly stayed the same from last year to this year (IMO)
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Anything can happen in any given season. If the Blue Jackets can tun around like they did, so can the Browns.
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I'm not sure you can equate the NHL (in a shortened season) with the NFL.
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I think I understood exactly where you were going. Didn't mean to I didn't. Sorry bout that.
Anyway,, I still don't see a lot of folks with high expectations, So I am not sure who you are speaking of when you think we should lower our expectations. If I lowered mine anymore, we'd end up with the first pick in the draft next season.,,LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I don't understand the Weeden hate.
Is it just that Browns fans are never going to be happy with a Quarterback?
Is it that they hated the pick to begin with, and refuse to have an open mind about his performance?
Is it that he's constantly being compared to a Quarterback class of RGIII, Luck, and Wilson who had ridiculous, not normal for a Rookie type success? And that he had a pretty "typical" Rookie season.
Is it that Browns fans don't see that Weeden was put in a system last year that made him destined to fail?
Or is it that I simply don't know much about football, and I'm the one in the wrong thinking Weeden can be a solid Quarterback in the NFL?
I don't know, I just don't see Weeden failing in this system.
His first name isn't Bernie, and his last name isn't Kosar...What more do they need? 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I don't understand the Weeden hate.
Is it just that Browns fans are never going to be happy with a Quarterback?
Is it that they hated the pick to begin with, and refuse to have an open mind about his performance?
Is it that he's constantly being compared to a Quarterback class of RGIII, Luck, and Wilson who had ridiculous, not normal for a Rookie type success? And that he had a pretty "typical" Rookie season.
Is it that Browns fans don't see that Weeden was put in a system last year that made him destined to fail?
Or is it that I simply don't know much about football, and I'm the one in the wrong thinking Weeden can be a solid Quarterback in the NFL?
I don't know, I just don't see Weeden failing in this system.
I'm guessing it's because he often looked clueless and had the 2nd worst QB rating in the league last year. The guy did not play well, I don't think it's unfathomable that a lot of fans don't have faith in him. Until he proves he can play well at the NFL level, I don't see why people shouldn't "hate" him.
Personally, I'm more than willing to give him another full season. But, I certainly understand why a lot of fans don't want him as the starter.
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I believe if we had stayed the course with Heckert and Shurmur we would have went 8-8 this year. With a playoff run the following season. Anything LESS than that under the new regime is a fail in my eyes. No excuses for not moving forward and improving. I'm willing to wait and see how they do. They seem satisfied with the players they have. So much so they decided they didn't need anymore and deferred drafting till next year. So come September we will see.... I expect to see a quality football team that wins. I expect to see a top tier defense. Banner said they weren't asking for a pass and they sure as hell are getting one. September is fast approaching.... tick tick tick
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I just looked over our schedule and project 5-7 wins. I'm not sure I could temper my expectations much more than that.
This is said every single year.
Our schedule is a LOT easier than last year.
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J/C Honestly, I don't really know what to expect out of this team in 2013. New coaches... new systems on offense and defense... a bunch of new players (particularly on defense)... Questions about our QB(s)... lots of questions... I'll probably take the same approach I did last season: expect to see some good play, some lousy play, but trending up throughout the season. This team has absolutely sucked for the last five seasons (not to mention all but 2 of the 14 seasons since our return). It's been a long slog for Browns fans. I just hope we can look back on a season and see some tangible improvement by year's end that we can hang our hope on for the future. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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I'm not sure you can equate the NHL (in a shortened season) with the NFL.
I actually believe the NFL should be renamed the NHL. No Hitting League.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I believe if we had stayed the course with Heckert and Shurmur we would have went 8-8 this year. With a playoff run the following season. Anything LESS than that under the new regime is a fail in my eyes. No excuses for not moving forward and improving. I'm willing to wait and see how they do. They seem satisfied with the players they have. So much so they decided they didn't need anymore and deferred drafting till next year. So come September we will see.... I expect to see a quality football team that wins. I expect to see a top tier defense. Banner said they weren't asking for a pass and they sure as hell are getting one. September is fast approaching.... tick tick tick
So you're measuring the new regime against your projections of the old one? LOL, bro....
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I believe if we had stayed the course with Heckert and Shurmur we would have went 8-8 this year. With a playoff run the following season. Anything LESS than that under the new regime is a fail in my eyes. No excuses for not moving forward and improving. I'm willing to wait and see how they do. They seem satisfied with the players they have. So much so they decided they didn't need anymore and deferred drafting till next year. So come September we will see.... I expect to see a quality football team that wins. I expect to see a top tier defense. Banner said they weren't asking for a pass and they sure as hell are getting one. September is fast approaching.... tick tick tick
So you're measuring the new regime against your projections of the old one? LOL, bro....
I believe that if Heckert and Shurmur were left in place, we'd have won the 2013 and 2014 Super Bowls. Anything less than that is a fail in my eyes.
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Why not? They weren't forced to switch back to a 3-4. They didn't HAVE to switch everything. All I heard when Chud and company were hired was they would play schemes that fit our personnel. They say we have a ton of young talent. They say running the new 3-4 BETTER fits our current roster.... Chud is an offensive genius.... why should I be happy with LESS than what we WOULD have had with no changes?
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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He also learned and grew.
Did he? An argument can be made that he didn't look that much better in his final six games than he did in the six leading up to the bye week. He took half his sacks in his final six games, when the line was playing better, and his TD/INT ratio was about the same. Completions, yardage, all about the same. It actually only resulted in one more win, (3-vs-2) with two of his wins in that period coming against Oakland & KC. So I don't know that he did improve... I personally didn't see any marked improvement from game 2 to game 15, and this is what I think many detractors are wondering about.
I know I want to see vast improvements in his ability to get rid of the ball, and in his ability to survey the field, read the D and find the open man, then make the accurate throw to get it to him.
Here's the bottom line, he's got one more chance to prove that he belongs here. Whether he gets an entire season remains to be seen, but I think Chud & Co. are doing things to help him succeed, including installing a friendlier system and adding Bess & Nelson. I'm sure they'll dial back the number of passes he's expected to throw and amp up the running game. They'll coach him up and turn him loose and if he can't get it done with those factors in place, then he probably isn't cut out for the NFL.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I believe that if Heckert and Shurmur were left in place, we'd have won the 2013 and 2014 Super Bowls.
 That's awesome! 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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What scares the hell out of me is we make this big change to an attack 3-4 and following this season, after the annual NFL bloodletting, Horton gets a HC gig. Leaving us with a defense that only a few coaches in the league know how to run....
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I just looked over our schedule and project 5-7 wins. I'm not sure I could temper my expectations much more than that.
This is said every single year.
Our schedule is a LOT easier than last year.
And that's how we finish every single season.
Vs. Dolphins (Win)
AT Ravens (Loss)
AT Vikings (Loss)
Vs. Bengals (Win)
Vs. Bills (Win)
Vs. Lions (Win)
AT Packers (Loss)
AT Chiefs (Loss)
Vs. Ravens (Loss)
BYE
AT Bengals (Loss)
Vs. Steelers (Loss)
Vs. Jaguars (Win)
AT New England (Loss)
Vs. Bears (Loss)
AT Jets (Win)
AT Steelers (Loss)
I don't see a lot of wiggle room in there.
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From a completion percentage standpoint, in his last 5 games, he consistently completed a higher percentage of passes despite being sacked more. He had only 5 INT in his final 6 games.
There were some areas he improved on, and others he struggled with. This coming season, I want to see an improvement in his ability to read a defense, and make decisive throws.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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why should I be happy with LESS than what we WOULD have had with no changes?
What you believe would have happened does not equal what would have happened.
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What scares the hell out of me is we make this big change to an attack 3-4 and following this season, after the annual NFL bloodletting, Horton gets a HC gig. Leaving us with a defense that only a few coaches in the league know how to run....
Why does it scare the hell out of you? It's not like we dumped a bunch of solid players because they weren't "system fits" and acquired a bunch of specialists. The guys we drafted should be able to contribute in most systems.
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What scares the hell out of me is we make this big change to an attack 3-4 and following this season, after the annual NFL bloodletting, Horton gets a HC gig. Leaving us with a defense that only a few coaches in the league know how to run....
so you are worried that our defense will do so well that it will get our DC a promotion.
oh the horrors!!!!!!!!!!!!
#gmstrong
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Actually, that's a legitimate concern unless you have someone ready to plug in and fill his shoes adequately.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And i am sure that more than just 1 or 2 coaches in the NFL know how to run an attacking 3-4 defense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Actually, that's a legitimate concern unless you have someone ready to plug in and fill his shoes adequately.
my point is this: if we get a season of elite defense out of the deal, then I'll take my chances
#gmstrong
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I don't remember ANYONE ever having this much concern when D'Qwell Jackson, for example, was in the 220's when he was drafted by Phil & Romeo.
Actually quite a few people expressed concern over DQs weight when he came out of college. His ability to play inside in the 3-4 was a very hot topic for a long time...
yebat' Putin
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I don't remember ANYONE ever having this much concern when D'Qwell Jackson, for example, was in the 220's when he was drafted by Phil & Romeo.
Actually quite a few people expressed concern over DQs weight when he came out of college. His ability to play inside in the 3-4 is still a very hot topic...
fixed it for you DC
#gmstrong
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This year I have the highest expectations ever for this team. After years of crap, literally crap, I have taught myself not to get too excited.
But we have much credible staff to work with, what I believe, is a nice caldron of young talent and etc both on that offense and defense. The front office also has swung some good deals via trades and etc. Who'd thought we'd even get a cupcake for McCoy, let alone a draft pick. Getting Bess for a trivial moving down a few spots.
Of course, we'll see. At the end of the year if we suck, we can use the traditional phrase "maybe next year."
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First, let me say that anything less than a Superbowl win is a failed season. That said, my expectation levels have been lowered for a number of years now, so if you think the moves of this year are reason to lower them, you're wrong. I think we have had a pretty darn good off season and this group brings me more hope than any since the return in 99. I like Phil Dawson as much as anybody and was sticking up for him several years back when fans wanted him run out of town claiming he had a weak leg.....if you've been around you know there were many....I mean many. But, the time had come with him. Things change. No, we won't win the Superbowl next year. That is a pretty sure bet, but I like what we have done so far.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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As for Weeden, without looking, wasn't his completion rate at around 54%? That is beyond awful and you think he will improve while throwing even longer passes????
Weeden 57 %
Luck 54% so I guess Luck is awful too?
And for the reading challanged I am NOT saying Weeden is anywhere close to Luck.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Quote:
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I just looked over our schedule and project 5-7 wins. I'm not sure I could temper my expectations much more than that.
This is said every single year.
Our schedule is a LOT easier than last year.
And that's how we finish every single season.
Vs. Dolphins (Win)
AT Ravens (Loss)
AT Vikings (Loss)
Vs. Bengals (Win)
Vs. Bills (Win)
Vs. Lions (Win)
AT Packers (Loss)
AT Chiefs (Loss)
Vs. Ravens (Loss)
BYE
AT Bengals (Loss)
Vs. Steelers (Loss)
Vs. Jaguars (Win)
AT New England (Loss)
Vs. Bears (Loss)
AT Jets (Win)
AT Steelers (Loss)
I don't see a lot of wiggle room in there.
I bet we beat the Chiefs. I agree with everything else.
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I'd say we have a better OL and DL than the chiefs, and that's it. Will that be enough to win on the road?
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I agree. at least 8/8 this year. but do not agree we would have been 8/8 with shurmer and nutcase heckert. more like 6/10. if luck into wins like last year.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c: I didn't realize this was a thread about Weeden? The funniest thing is how certain people get bent out of shape when people question Weeden? Are you kidding me? The guy was horrific. And y'all keep blaming Pat. Why? Who drafted him? Who insisted we run the stupid 90s version of the WCO? It wasn't Pat. It was a stupid pick. And it's going to hurt this franchise for quite awhile. So, I guess there is a connection. Low expectations for next year.
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Are you kidding me? The guy was horrific. And y'all keep blaming Pat. Why? Who drafted him? Who insisted we run the stupid 90s version of the WCO? It wasn't Pat.
Care to elaborate on this?
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I can't honestly predict how Weeden will do in this offense. And in my mind that is the only way to predict wins and losses. I keep remembering DA playing lights out and simply can't shake the notion we could be looking at a playoff squad here.
I see somewhere between 11-5 and 5-11. My guess would be 1 or 2 more wins than what is above. I currently don't assume we'll get swept by the Ravens. And I figure we will beat an unexpected team (Bears) and lose to an unexpected team (Lions/Bills)
Last edited by Kingcob; 04/30/13 08:09 PM.
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Are you saying the coach wasn't in charge or the offense? That he wasn't calling the plays?
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