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Dawg Talker
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Hi, since I'm new here I figured I would introduce myself first. I'm from ClevelandBrowns.com joined around 2006 and a Browns fan at birth(40 years).
Been reading a lot of the post on this site and I got to say, you guys are a smart bunch and I"m having a ball reading the threads, but I keep coming across people saying how good we will be next year and I got a problem with that.
Fist let me say, I'm a big supporter of the coaching staff,gone is Holmgrens antiquated offense/defense and Pat who had no business being a head coach, anybody for taking TR out on 3rd and 1?
Ok, here are me reasons why IMO we should temper our expectations for next year:
1. They didn't sign Phil Dawson: This was a huge red flag to me, I think even Lombardi knows Phil is the best, no way they let him get away if the planned on making a playoff run.
2. The draft: Trading away picks for next year, IMO this tells me they are stock piling picks, so next draft they will have the ammo to trade up and finally draft a franchise QB and still have some picks to shore up the defense.*Unless Weeden becomes "it".
3. The draft: With D. Milner still available and our defensive backfield being the mess that it is, I was 100% sure they were going to draft him, but they grab MIngo instead who IMO is a tad skinny, it's going to take him a year, maybe more, too do some weight training and add more muscle, so he can be as explosive as we want him to be.
I took a look at next years schedule and it seems we are going to face every elite QB in the league with one cover corner, unless every pick is a stud (YEAH RIGHT!!!) we are in trouble.
I say we win around 5 games next year while we fine tune our pass rush and learn a new offense, of course this all goes out the window if #3 can get it together, which I don't think will happen, he does not seem to me (IMO) to be brightest bulb in the pack.
That said, I'm very excited about next years draft, sad I know, we get our db's in order and get the all important franchise qb.
What do you guys think?
oops out of time, can't proof read, so grammar police, get a life.
1. They didn't sign Phil Dawson: This was a huge red flag to me, I think even Lombardi knows Phil is the best, no way they let him get away if the planned on making a playoff run.
Imo it was a mutual feeling. The FO wanted to get younger and, although Phil no doubt was torn between leaving and the fans wanted him, had a terrific chance at kicking in a SB. The 9ers have to be in the top 2-3 teams to get there again.
2. The draft: Trading away picks for next year, IMO this tells me they are stock piling picks, so next draft they will have the ammo to trade up and finally draft a franchise QB and still have some picks to shore up the defense.*Unless Weeden becomes "it".
A 3rd and a 4th "PLUS" 1st round picks in 2014, 2015, and 2016 "MIGHT" get you to the #1 overall. Are there any can't miss/sure things like Luck or RG3 next year? Imo they, much like when the Holmgren group came aboard, have way to much to sort thru this year. Why add 3rd and 4th round picks this year when they have a real fuzzy feeling about 2013 but in reality don't really know what they have.
3. The draft: With D. Milner still available and our defensive backfield being the mess that it is, I was 100% sure they were going to draft him, but they grab MIngo instead who IMO is a tad skinny, it's going to take him a year, maybe more, too do some weight training and add more muscle, so he can be as explosive as we want him to be.
I took a look at next years schedule and it seems we are going to face every elite QB in the league with one cover corner, unless every pick is a stud (YEAH RIGHT!!!) we are in trouble.
No doubt Horton prefers pressure over coverage if he could only pick one style. Pressure has made many an avg CB look great and become wealthy over the years. We have a difficult schedule every year. This year we have the 22nd most difficult schedule
http://www.theredzone.org/Features/NFLStrengthofSchedule.aspx
One thing that I think fans don't fully realize is what this O can do. In 2007 Chud took 2006's 31st best O and took it to the 8th best O. In 2011 when he went to Caro he took the 32nd best O and took it to the 7th best O.. Do we have a Cam Newton? No. However, imo we do have a Derek A, only much smarter and much more accurate on 5-10yd passes. For good measure, throw the name Norv Turner into the mix.
Let this sink in..... On 12-31-23 it be will 123123.
On the flip side, you can tune a piano but you can't tune-a-fish.
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Legend
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Legend
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Hey dawg...don't distort the facts - we had 2 winning seasons not just One
I laugh only cause I don't cry 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Legend
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No, I am saying that Shurmur was brought in here by Holmgren because they ran the same offense. I thought that was common knowledge???
LOL.. it was, I guess I got twisted up in the words... I thought you were saying that Shurmur would have run something else had he been given the choice to do so... No big deal, I think we agree on the facts and I'm just having a hard time understanding and communicating... wouldn't be the first time. 
yebat' Putin
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2nd String
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2nd String
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One thing that I think fans don't fully realize is what this O can do. In 2007 Chud took 2006's 31st best O and took it to the 8th best O. In 2011 when he went to Caro he took the 32nd best O and took it to the 7th best O.. Do we have a Cam Newton? No. However, imo we do have a Derek A, only much smarter and much more accurate on 5-10yd passes. For good measure, throw the name Norv Turner into the mix.
This is something I think a lot of people still don't quite get.
If Weeden isn't at least close to a 90.0 quarterback rating and close to 3,700-4,000 passing yards in this offense, with these coaches and this personnel, he's absolutely awful.
I personally think that if he has a work ethic, he's not probably that bad. The passing game should be good this year.
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Hall of Famer
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One thing that I think fans don't fully realize is what this O can do. In 2007 Chud took 2006's 31st best O and took it to the 8th best O. In 2011 when he went to Caro he took the 32nd best O and took it to the 7th best O.. Do we have a Cam Newton? No. However, imo we do have a Derek A, only much smarter and much more accurate on 5-10yd passes. For good measure, throw the name Norv Turner into the mix.
This is something I think a lot of people still don't quite get.
If Weeden isn't at least close to a 90.0 quarterback rating and close to 3,700-4,000 passing yards in this offense, with these coaches and this personnel, he's absolutely awful.
I personally think that if he has a work ethic, he's not probably that bad. The passing game should be good this year.
never do it. this coaching staff is going to take the pressure off him by running the ball. jmo
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Hall of Famer
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One thing that I think fans don't fully realize is what this O can do. In 2007 Chud took 2006's 31st best O and took it to the 8th best O. In 2011 when he went to Caro he took the 32nd best O and took it to the 7th best O.. Do we have a Cam Newton? No. However, imo we do have a Derek A, only much smarter and much more accurate on 5-10yd passes. For good measure, throw the name Norv Turner into the mix.
This is something I think a lot of people still don't quite get.
If Weeden isn't at least close to a 90.0 quarterback rating and close to 3,700-4,000 passing yards in this offense, with these coaches and this personnel, he's absolutely awful.
I personally think that if he has a work ethic, he's not probably that bad. The passing game should be good this year.
never do it. this coaching staff is going to take the pressure off him by running the ball. jmo
I would be willing to bet... we will see a lot of screen passes... both WR and RB's. I think the O run this year will not resemble the O run next year. I expect this year to be a train wreck in terms of Wins and Losses. I don't think we will get much above the previous 5-11 years. We could squeak out a 6-10 or maybe... maybe a 7-9 if we have a little luck on our side. That is also with a much easier schedule than we have had in the past 4-5 years.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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Legend
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First things first...we will establish the Vertical game - until teams start game planning with 2 safeties back (7 in the box) then will come the underneath stuff - Running game, Screens, slants, Seam routs, Digs....As soon ass they start moving up the safety...Cover 3 - Vertical again 
hehehe....I can't wait sorry I am a bonafide Homer 16-0 expectations Someday I'll be correct As a fan (not coach, not player, not GM) just a dumb ass fan for my beloved Browns I will have those high expectations. Note, I get very depressed with each n every loss but I don't ever let my high expectations get to me...n go Chicken Little of Lord of the Flies on our Team. Just who I am...I understand we have to overcome the lack of continuity regarding O n D to be great in either but still my expectations for this system n the good over all talent we got on this team.
If Weeden clicks as a superstar QB in this system....FINALLY, FINALLY we will have Arrived. D??? I am confident that by game 4 the D will start to Dominate!
JMHO hey its who I am 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Legend
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I'm just worried about the run D.
If our O can put up enough points to force our opponents to pass, I think we'll be much better off. I don't see us being as good as you indicate by week 4.
Week 8? maybe..... But a lot will depend on how quickly these new O and D schemes will be executed as a whole. That's a lot of changes for a team to be hitting on all cylinders by week 4.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I think that's funny Pit.
Week 4 nah no way...Week 8 yes...lol  Either one of us...Based on what 
Funny part for me is if you will disagree at least state YEAR 2 or something...lol
My number - I don't know week 1? 4? 8? What I do know its a Defense that is easy to really get into it n believe which my thought process is they all will be so eager as a team things will get worked out faster than the norm. Also my thought process is that there is no "READ" the Defense actually is more simplified...oh I'm sure its a little more complicated then just a simple go Sic Em strategy - I'm sure there is a lot of formation reads n calls. But the concept after the Call is made is to ATTACK no hesitation on the gap. In lieu of that I think it will start to gel faster than the PLETHRA of different defenses coming on board. If anything we should be experts on this observation... all too often - New D put in place.
Run D? I don't know we got some real decent personnel especially the 3 DL we will put out there...those are 3 gaps - with penetration, if a team over plays on of the 3 we will attack that spot with LBs or SS - etc.
JMHO n my high expectations
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Legend
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I base mine on most of the D having to learn many different formations and playing in positions they've never played before. Yes we have seen our D change many times and most of the time there hasn't been early success in these changes. So that's my basis. The O? Once again, I like what Chud did when he was here before. I think there's every chance he could replicate it. But after what we've endured as a fan base, I'm skeptical of about everything these days when it relates to the Browns succeeding.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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trust me I understand the skepticism - sometimes I post (homer) to off set that skepticism to give Dawgs hope n believe in our team...Karma is important. But I don't do all of it as a Credibility sometimes I feel its more important to sacrifice possibly my credibility by logically presenting WHY things will be good. All true just the likelihood of all the circumstances coming up roses together is not a high prospect.
In discussion through Private Messaging I'm a little more open on my credible expectations n critical in some areas.
This year - I have a different feeling in what we will see. My absolute personal favorite O n D might be the reason so easy for ME TO BELIEVE in the Prosperity soon to come
JMHO but really really mean it 
We will be Exceptional - and that is me backing it with a DEFINITE MAYBE
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Legend
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I don't think we will get much above the previous 5-11 years. We could squeak out a 6-10 or maybe... maybe a 7-9 if we have a little luck on our side.
I would consider going from 5 wins to 7 a pretty decent step in the right direction for a regime in its first year and changing systems, new owner and GM, still being very young, etc..
yebat' Putin
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All Pro
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I would as well.
BUT I am with eo and I think we're going to the superbowl. Why not? I can't overstate how much better we are with our staff now. While I love chud........norv turner is our OC. I mean, I can hardly believe it. And Horton will have the D ready by our playoff run!! Early we will chuck it and air it out. Think wide open high scoring games. Then as the D gels and opposing Ds start to cover the deep ball. We bring out playoff football, runs, screens, playactions, and a killer D.
Superbowls buddies! Go Browns.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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not one, not two......7 superbowls. Dang straight.
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Legend
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Color me: "Tempered Enthusiasm Burnt Sienna"
While I'm much happier with this offseason than I thought I'd be, I'm not yet ready to place the "Crystal Football" in Haslam's hands.
This is still an incomplete team in many ways, with many "?'s" at key positions.
Having said that, I DO expect many more interesting, exciting games, with many more points scored.
We hear stories of teams"turning it around" on a dime, but let's be reasonable about this, shall we?
1. Hew FO.
2. New HC.
3. New DC.
4. New AC.
5. Totally new O and D schemes/philosophies.
6. Significant turnover on "impact players' " roles.
7. New roles for almost everyone on D.
8. A totally new playbook for Weeden (a HUGE "if"...)
9. New players in new spots on ST.
10. New language, new terminology, and new mindset.
________________________
That's a lot of change.... in not a lot of time.
There WILL be a learning curve... and early games could look quite ugly, until guys settle into their new roles.
5 wins can be expected. 5-7 wins might be reasonably anticipated. Anything beyond that should be (rationally) considered a 'bonus.'
All that said, I'm truly excited to see what we might trot out onto the field this year.
p.s. -I LOVE the Bess acquisition... he fills a need, and can make a difference- maybe even a 2-win difference, over the course of a season.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Legend
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I'll take talent over experience. 4/7 of our potential starters in the front 7 have played in a 3/4. The cover schemes won't be much different.
I'm worried about the offense.
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Legend
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I'll take talent over experience. 4/7 of our potential starters in the front 7 have played in a 3/4. The cover schemes won't be much different.
I'm worried about the offense.
this. Our defense will be potent.
Our offense tho lays in the hands of Brandon Weeden. Hopefully, he'll step it up and won't suck.
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Legend
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Sounds reasonable. I think we should win around 7 games--give or take a game. On the Positive Side: --We should generate a lot of pressure on the qb. --The DL is very strong. --The additions of Kruger, Bryant, and Mingo should really help. --TRich should be solid. --Ward should flourish in Horton's defense. --Gordon and Little give us big-play threats. --Bess should be huge. I've been saying that is what our offense has lacked for years. --The coaching staff is leaps and bounds better than the previous staff. Negatives: --Lack of experience is still an issue. --Our second corner [whoever he is] is not proven. --Same goes for FS, although I am pretty high on Gipson. --Not sure if we are set at ILBer. I like Robertson as a cover guy. Not sure about him on first down and in short yardage. Maybe we run more 4-3 and 5-2 fronts on those downs? --Unproven TEs. --Weeden. What Needs to Happen: --TRich needs to go from being solid to an elite back. He needs to prove he is worth all we gave up for him. --Sheard and Mingo play well at OLB. --One of the corners steps-up. --The young WRs and TEs need to get smarter and more reliable. --Weeden needs to play decently. Bottom Line: There are parts of our team that really excite me. I do think we have too many holes/question marks to be a playoff team, but we could be a very competitive team if one thing happens. Weeden has to improve by leaps and bounds. Every time I get excited about what could happen, that little evil devil on my shoulder says: "Yeah, but Weeden is your QB."  If he plays good, we could perhaps win 9--10 games. However, if he plays like he did last year, than 5 or 6 wins are more likely. I don't expect much from him, but I am hoping that he improves enough to at least get us to 7 or 8 wins. He is like this ominous shadow cast by a large gray cloud that is hanging over the Brown's season. Let's hope the wizardry of Chud and Norv can turn our gray skies blue.
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I'll take talent over experience. 4/7 of our potential starters in the front 7 have played in a 3/4. The cover schemes won't be much different.
I'm worried about the offense.
I'm less worried about the team because Holmgren, Heckert & Shurmur are gone.
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Since we won't go 13-3 as Haslam put it, I could care less if we win 5 or 8 games....for me, as last season, it's the HOW we play these 16 games and the development or lack thereof we see during the season. We could win 7 games and I could still be less excited than 2012 and vice versa we could again only win 4/5 and be happy about the development of certain players, although at least ONE important player or coach would have to bomb in that sceanrio. But let's say the whole team develops but we lose a handful of winnable games late because Weeden or TRich or both completely suck...I'd take that over a 7 win season with smoke and mirrors by winning 2-3 games with ST or dumb mistakes from our opponents, as those tend to wash out over time and are nothing sustainable
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Another thing about our defense now is that it has to be attractive to free agents. Our front 7, on paper, is deep as all get out. Pressure, pressure, pressure for any defense creates more opportunities for corners to get their hands on the ball.
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Legend
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Legend
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I'd take that over a 7 win season with smoke and mirrors by winning 2-3 games with ST or dumb mistakes from our opponents
I assume you mean "unless our D forces those dumb mistakes" Right?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm a homer, and I get that. But sometimes I wonder at how negative we've become. In 2011 our O really, really sucked. In 2012 it scored more points per game, and looked kind of like an actual NFL team. I mean we could score in the teens pretty reliably. (wow, have we been bad). So we had what we have this year, but we now hav Norv. (plus a new WR who will will likely really, really help.) We had a RB with broken ribs last year. He doesn't now, and it further along from the knee. I see no reason we can't score near 20 points a game. This is good enought o scrape out wins if you are lucky. I mean Weeden has a cannon. While there are many issues with the guy, he has a cannon. I believe Norv will use it. Weeden out of the shotgun is going to really improve his game, and honestly it wasn't all that horrible last year. (I know the darn stats, but he was a rookie w/ a horrible system, and injuries all over). So I expect us to be pretty good really on O. We have talent on that side of the ball. Line is stout (well fingers crossed on our guards). WR is looking good. RB is good. QB is well, at least ok. (either Weeds or Campbell is ok to maybe pretty good). If we somehow stumble into the playoffs (and I think we will), then anything goes. think the giants a couple years ago. So don't lose hope fellow browns fans. It really could be this year. 
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Legend
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Screw that
If we're not winning games I'll be pissed. I don't like moral victory garbage. However I agree that barely winning 7 games isn't good either. There's just no way I'm okay with 4-5 wins ever.
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Screw that
If we're not winning games I'll be pissed. I don't like moral victory garbage. However I agree that barely winning 7 games isn't good either. There's just no way I'm okay with 4-5 wins ever.
+100 
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
- Isaac Asimov
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My expectations are this will be a much better team capable of winning 8 games due to development.
I understand they are changing offense and defense. But, lets face it these guys are professional and have been playing football for many years. They played a system in high school, college, and the NFL. They can adapt to these changes better than we are giving them credit for.
There were many yound players on this team last season that were very compititive in almost every game last season. I would expect last seasons rooks to all play better year 2 versus last season. In 16 games they seen every kind os scheme that could be thrown at them,
Brandon Weeden will improve. How Much? Is the question.
I expect Trent Richardson to show the most improvement. He will be playing for the same Offensive Coordinator as his childhood hero Emmit Smith and will take Norv Turner's coaching to heart. I expect him to be a much better 3rd and short back. His pass blocking will improve. He has already proven to be a good pass catching back and has a nose for the goalline.
Josh Gordon will be a better route runner just due to the fact he will have an offseason. Last year his head had to be swimming during training camp just to get ready to play. This offseason he will be working on be more polished instead of a raw talent.
Mitchell Scwartz has 16 games under his belt and he now knows the speed and power rushers moves in the NFL. Knowledge is power. He had a good year without any knowledge last year. He will be better this coming season.
Billy Winn and John Hughes are now also a year wiser and stronger and will push the veterans on the defensive line to play better and harder or get replaced.
Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, and Greg Little will be going into year 3 which is where they should be making the transition from young player to veteran.
Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, TJ Ward, Alex Mack, Ahtyba Rubin, D'Qwell Jackson and TJ Ward are now all verterans entering the prime of their careers. I would expect them to be team leaders.
The new additions of talented players like Paul Kruger who just won a super bowl. Desmond Bryant has been a very solid player and brings another veteran presence to the team. Barkavious Mingo will bring young explosive energy to the team. He has all of the athletic abilty needeed to be very successful.
If the names mentioned above all play to their capabilities and show the proper development this team will win 8 games and with the right breaks maybe more. I do not think the above mentioned players who we see as the nucleous of the team making the proper develpopment is asking too much. It is what is expected.
What are the question marks after that is will any other players on the team play to a high level and surprise us as fans or come back from injury to become a nucleous kind of player. Someone like Jason Pinkston, Shaun Lauvao, Jordan Cameron, Leon McFadden, or someone else.
Last edited by Day of the Dawg; 05/04/13 03:13 PM.
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11-5 is what i expect this year. I see us having an outstanding front seven and, after the draft, a good enough secondary. Our defense is going to blow a ton of plays up in the backfield, c'mon Horton. I cant wait to see Gordon and Little and Benjamin and Cameron or Nelson or Bess racing down the field on the first play from scrimmage this year.....oh yea and we got Trent too
PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR! GO BROWNS!
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11-5 would be awesome!!!! happening..........I dont think so. I hope our D is great this year and Weeden makes leaps with the new offensive scheme.
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
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i agree- i expect to win. I'm just tired of excuses. It was their decision to scramble the defense, so that can't be used as a crutch. It was their decision to not add a veteran corner, so don't even offer that as an excuse. If Weeds screws it up, they brought in Cambell, so again- no excuse.
New coaches, new system, new owner-- not going to fly as excuses. They have OTA's, mini-camps, training camp and 4 exhibition games to get things going. We've seen other teams do it. It's time for the browns to do it.
I'm not letting them off the hook that easily. It's time for this organization to be held accountable for what happens on the field- in the win/loss column. This team has core players, it time to win. And its time to win NOW.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 40
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 40 |
a little bug in my ear keeps buzzing about Jason Campbell. Something tells me that he just might beat out Weeden in preseason and I'm not sure that wouldn't be a good thing. Until he was injured , by us at oakland, he was lighting up the league and really hitting his stride. Weeden better show up tough and on the mark cause Jason seems to want his job and take the reins and if I remember, he fits real well in Norv's offense.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
I just don't see "great" QB play from Campbell, not even in the season in Oakland where he was injured against us.
In that season, he threw for less than 200 yards/game, and threw 6 TD VS 4 INT. Decent numbers, but certainly nothing as rave worthy as some seem to believe.
Following Weeden's abysmal 1st game last year, the rest of the season he completed 59% of his passes, (285/482) for 3267 yards, 14 TD and 13 INT. This was in an offense completely ill fitted to his abilities.
We know what Campbell can do. He is a guy who will complete slightly above or slightly below 60% of his passes, will almost certainly throw fewer than 16 TD passes in a 16 game season .... will probably throw slightly fewer INT than TD ..... and will create few big plays in the passing game. (although he did better in his final year in DC, and his 2 years in Chicago in average yards/pass attempt) Campbell has never had more than 40 pass plays go for 20+ yards in any season. Weeden had 48 as a rookie last year. Again, this was in an offense that did not fit Weeden at all.
I like Campbell, and am glad that we signed him. I feel that he can be a capable backup. However, if we go through this season with him as the starter, and never find out for sure about Weeden, then this year will have been a failure. We really need to find out if Weeden can be the guy, or not. If we get partway into the season and decide that he isn't, and can't be, then we have Campbell to go to. However, we really need to work towards making that determination from the word go. That means that Weeden has to be the starting QB. (unless he is so awful that Campbell beats him by a mile or 2)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124 Likes: 222
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I like Campbell, and am glad that we signed him. I feel that he can be a capable backup. However, if we go through this season with him as the starter, and never find out for sure about Weeden, then this year will have been a failure. We really need to find out if Weeden can be the guy, or not. If we get partway into the season and decide that he isn't, and can't be, then we have Campbell to go to. However, we really need to work towards making that determination from the word go. That means that Weeden has to be the starting QB. (unless he is so awful that Campbell beats him by a mile or 2)
So...when the Browns break camp...if Campbell is thought to be better than Weeden...but by some distance less than a mile...then Weeden should start.
Even if he is beaten out of the starting gig? Even after starting camp playing with the 1's?
Because Chud & Norv will need more time to evaluate him/them?
I've got to disagree there YT.
If Weeden starts out getting the starters reps in camp...and eventually loses the competition to Campbell...Campbell better be the starter on Day 1.
FWIW - and I'll add that I don't see 'starter' in Campbell anymore - if Campbell beats out Weeden this year, I think Weeden is d-o-n-e as a likely starter in the league.
Another FWIW, I hope Weeden comes out strong and improved and eliminates any QB comp distraction...but I'm not holding my breath.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 343
2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 343 |
Quote:
I like Campbell, and am glad that we signed him. I feel that he can be a capable backup. However, if we go through this season with him as the starter, and never find out for sure about Weeden, then this year will have been a failure. We really need to find out if Weeden can be the guy, or not. If we get partway into the season and decide that he isn't, and can't be, then we have Campbell to go to. However, we really need to work towards making that determination from the word go. That means that Weeden has to be the starting QB. (unless he is so awful that Campbell beats him by a mile or 2)
I agree with this. Campbell's ceiling is very clearly defined. A team is never going to win a Super Bowl with Jason Campbell as their QB. Therefore, there's really no point in giving him the starting job if he's only slightly better than Weeden. Weeden has more potential.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,119 Likes: 134
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,119 Likes: 134 |
I'm down with the "may the best man start" thinking..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
I think that Campbell cannot "win" a close competition, and he should not win a close competition. He knows this offense, He should be far more comfortable from the start. He should be ahead when he walks into camp.
Rarely does a team have a truly "fair" battle for the starting QB job, and it is almost impossible to even things up in pre-season games so that the 2 get equal reps against 1st team defenses. We saw what happens in that situation when we had the Quinn/DA "battle". The coaching staff decides who the starter will be, even if one guy looks better against 2nd string defenses.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124 Likes: 222
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,124 Likes: 222 |
Quote:
I think that Campbell cannot "win" a close competition, and he should not win a close competition. He knows this offense, He should be far more comfortable from the start. He should be ahead when he walks into camp.
Rarely does a team have a truly "fair" battle for the starting QB job, and it is almost impossible to even things up in pre-season games so that the 2 get equal reps against 1st team defenses. We saw what happens in that situation when we had the Quinn/DA "battle". The coaching staff decides who the starter will be, even if one guy looks better against 2nd string defenses.
I understand what you are saying with the exception of the statement that 'Campbell knows this offense'. I'll say he has a leg up on Weeden simply due to experience in various schemes...but in the end...Campbell is also learning a new offense.
Also, I think they already ARE giving Weeden an advantage to win the starting gig...and I agree with them doing that.
Those things said...if Cambell gives us a better chance to win on Opening Day then he needs to start...especially after the 'head start' Weeden is getting by being "named" the #1 for the start of camp.
What a disaster it would be for the many young guys on this team to see one player beat out another player - clearly, but not by a mile - and STILL not win the starting gig.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Quote:
a little bug in my ear keeps buzzing about Jason Campbell. Something tells me that he just might beat out Weeden in preseason and I'm not sure that wouldn't be a good thing. Until he was injured , by us at oakland, he was lighting up the league and really hitting his stride. Weeden better show up tough and on the mark cause Jason seems to want his job and take the reins and if I remember, he fits real well in Norv's offense.
To be blunt, I wouldn't be shocked if Weeden gets beat out in camp. This starting spot with this regime, he'll have to earn... it will not be given to him. I'm not saying Jason is a starting caliber QB, but if the phrase "we'll put the best players on the field to give us a chance to win" is true and pure, Weeden be doing hte Colt McCoy thing and riding the ole' bench.
We'll see! All JMO
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
Campbell already has had exposure to the digits offense that Turner runs. He had Al Saunders as his 1st offensive coordinator. Saunders was also offensive coordinator for the Raiders in 2011.
Saunders is probably as close to Turner in philosophy as anyone in the NFL. Both worked under Coryell. Both run a similar offense. Campbell has played under Saunders on 2 different teams, and thus has played in an offense almost identical to that which Turner runs on 2 different occasions.
He should be well ahead at the start. That doesn't mean that I don't think that Weeden can catch up to a large degree fairly quickly, especially given that Turner's offense is a fairly simple system, purposely kept simple so that all offensive players can play instead of over-thinking every play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839 Likes: 11
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839 Likes: 11 |
Quote:
I agree with this. Campbell's ceiling is very clearly defined. A team is never going to win a Super Bowl with Jason Campbell as their QB. Therefore, there's really no point in giving him the starting job if he's only slightly better than Weeden. Weeden has more potential.
I use to agree w/ this logic.. until Trent Dilfer won a championship.. Honestly, you never know what could happen.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
He should be well ahead at the start. That doesn't mean that I don't think that Weeden can catch up to a large degree fairly quickly, especially given that Turner's offense is a fairly simple system, purposely kept simple so that all offensive players can play instead of over-thinking every play.
Little early to start the "Excuse Game" isn't it?
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