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Following is Mr. Obama's "enemies" quote from his Univision interview last October: "If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're gonna punish our enemies, and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us' -- if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election -- then I think it's going to be harder. And that's why I think it's so important that people focus on voting on November 2nd." The President later amended his remarks in a CBS interview by saying he might better have used the word "opponents" than "enemies". ( http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20021413-503544.html ) But, IMO, it still reveals a "Nixonian" mindset, a certain us-vs-them, black-or-white ruthless approach towards those who threaten his agenda. That said, amateur psychology is ... amateurish. We may never know if orders went down the chain of command from Obama to Geithner at Treasury to the IRS chief to the IRS field office, but it strains credulity - again, IMO - to believe that civil servants showed that kind of initiative to please their higher-ups without having gotten any direction from those higher-ups. It was way too ambitious a plan to have begun at field office level. So what else can be done except to subpoena everyone in the chain of command and see if anyone rolls over? Even then, even if you get right to the Oval Office with an investigation, the President can claim Executive Privilege, it gets tied up in court, and the clock runs out on the Obama administration. In other words, I'm not hopeful they'll get to the bottom of it (or the top), but I think the situation is serious enough to warrant a special prosecutor rather than expecting the Treasury Department to run a meaningful investigation of itself.
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Following is Mr. Obama's "enemies" quote from his Univision interview last October:
"If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're gonna punish our enemies, and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us' -- if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election -- then I think it's going to be harder. And that's why I think it's so important that people focus on voting on November 2nd."
The President later amended his remarks in a CBS interview by saying he might better have used the word "opponents" than "enemies".
( http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20021413-503544.html )
But, IMO, it still reveals a "Nixonian" mindset, a certain us-vs-them, black-or-white ruthless approach towards those who threaten his agenda.
That said, amateur psychology is ... amateurish.
We may never know if orders went down the chain of command from Obama to Geithner at Treasury to the IRS chief to the IRS field office, but it strains credulity - again, IMO - to believe that civil servants showed that kind of initiative to please their higher-ups without having gotten any direction from those higher-ups. It was way too ambitious a plan to have begun at field office level.
I don't disagree with any part of this. Can't really say that I find any fault in the logic. But I'm not rockdogg, PDR, Mantis or any number of other posters.
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So what else can be done except to subpoena everyone in the chain of command and see if anyone rolls over? Even then, even if you get right to the Oval Office with an investigation, the President can claim Executive Privilege, it gets tied up in court, and the clock runs out on the Obama administration. In other words, I'm not hopeful they'll get to the bottom of it (or the top), but I think the situation is serious enough to warrant a special prosecutor rather than expecting the Treasury Department to run a meaningful investigation of itself.
This might be true too, except that I don't think that Obama could claim 'executive privilege' and get away with it. Actions have consequences and there could be enough backlash in the electorate that Democrats in the House and Senate might not be willing to tank their political careers for a lame-duck president. There are still elections in 2014 to consider and if Obama's numbers slide enough, they won't fall on the sword for him. Obama's bureaucrats might but not the legislators. They do have to face their constituencies to keep their jobs.
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That is because in America, we don’t apply the law based on who you are, who you know, or what you believe. We apply the law equally.”
...unless you're an illegal immigrant.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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That is because in America, we don’t apply the law based on who you are, who you know, or what you believe. We apply the law equally.”
...unless you're an illegal immigrant.
Or you have a lot of money.
#GMSTRONG
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That is because in America, we don’t apply the law based on who you are, who you know, or what you believe. We apply the law equally.”
...unless you're an illegal immigrant.
Or you have a lot of money.
Or are a protected category of people who get special protections. (Like "hate crimes" laws that carry sentencing guidelines that only apply if the victim is a member of a certain group)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Meaningless response..Mostly full of bull. except for the lesson on Tandy and Radio Shack.. thanks for that..
That's informative and impactful.
As if what you wrote was? Gibberish.. that's what you do when you get backed into a corner..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Meaningless response..Mostly full of bull. except for the lesson on Tandy and Radio Shack.. thanks for that..
That's informative and impactful.
As if what you wrote was? Gibberish.. that's what you do when you get backed into a corner..
I wasn't backed into a corner. I just shrugged you off. Your comments weren't worth more than scoffing at.
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j/c Republicans Informed of IRS Investigation Last Year Much has been made of the fact that senior Treasury Department officials were told about the investigation into the treatment of tea party groups in June 2012 - months before last year's the Presidential election. Republicans who requested the investigation were also told about it at approximately the same time. In a letter dated July 11, 2012, the man who conducted the investigation - IRS inspector general J. Russell George - wrote to Rep. Darrell Issa, the chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, telling him that he was investigating the issue and offering to keep him updated as the investigation progressed. "The Oversight Committee knew about the audit because it requested it," an Issa aide told ABC News. Issa released the letter, along with his own letter dated June 28, 2012 requesting the investigation, last week. "We would be happy to provide a status update to the Subcommittee staff and provide a copy of our interim and final reports on the matter when they are issued," George wrote in the letter to Issa. An identical letter was also sent the Rep. Jim Jordan, who, like Issa had raised the issue with the IRS. The letter notes that it was Issa who had written him about "questionnaires that the IRS has issued which may exceed appropriate scrutiny and a potential lack of balance in the use of criteria for reviewing organizations that are applying for tax-exempt status." George offers no confusions but says, "our Office of Audit recently began work on this issue." According the Issa aide, the committee received an email update from George in December saying, "We are leaving no stone unturned as part of our due diligence. As such, we won't be able to provide a detailed, substantive briefing until late April/early May." On Friday, in his testimony before the House Ways & Means Committee, George said he had notified top Treasury officials - including Deputy Secretary Neal Wolin - about his investigation in June 2012, part of a routine briefing on the issues he was looking into. Republicans pounced on that revelation as evidence top Administration officials knew about the targeting of conservative groups well before the 2012 election. It is now clear that at least some key Republicans knew about the investigation as well. While George informed Treasury officials about the fact he was conducting the investigation in 2012, the Treasury Department says he did not go into detail about his investigation or tell them about his conclusion that IRS had improperly targeted conservative groups. Similarly, the letter to Issa says the investigation had begun but does not say that it had uncovered any wrongdoing. http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-informed-irs-investigation-last-125615676--abc-news-politics.html
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Top IRS official will invoke the Fifth Amendment in congressional hearing about tea party targeting programBy David Martosko PUBLISHED: 16:14 EST, 21 May 2013 | UPDATED: 16:51 EST, 21 May 2013 The Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday afternoon that Lois Lerner, who heads up the Internal Revenue Service's tax-exempt division, plans to invoke the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution in a hearing Wednesday before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Affairs. The Fifth Amendment provides that U.S. citizens may not be compelled to offer testimony if telling the truth would incriminate them. Lerner's defense lawyer, William W. Taylor III, wrote to the committee on Tuesday that his client would refuse to answer questions related to what she knew about the extra levels of scrutiny applied to conservative nonprofit organizations that applied for tax-exempt status beginning in 2010. She also will decline to say why she didn’t disclose what she knew to Congress, according to the LA Times. Lerner 'has not committed any crime or made any misrepresentation,' Taylor's letter read, 'but under the circumstances she has no choice but to take this course.' He is asking the oversight committee to excuse Lerner from testifying, claiming that calling her in a congressional hearing would 'have no purpose other than to embarrass or burden her' since members would not expect her to answer questions. Ahmad Ali, a committee spokesman, told MailOnline that 'Ms. Lerner remains under subpoena from Chairman Issa to appear at tomorrow's hearing - the Committee has a Constitutional obligation to conduct oversight.' 'Chairman [Darrel] Issa remains hopeful that she will ultimately decide to testify tomorrow about her knowledge of outrageous IRS targeting of Americans for their political beliefs.' The IRS applied special criteria to conservative organizations seeking tax-exempt status, putting them on a 'Be On The Lookout' (BOLO) list, based on the groups' names and political philosophies. President Barack Obama has said he was unaware of the program until May 10, when excerpts of an IRS Inspector General Report on the practice were leaked to reporters. But Jay Carney, the president's chief spokesman, confirmed Monday that senior White House staff, including White House Counsel Kathy Ruemmler and Chief of Staff Denis McDonough, knew about the IRS's habits as early as April 24, and chose not to tell Obama. The Inspector General report found that Lerner and other IRS were notified in or before June 2011 that some staff in the agency's Cincinnati, Ohio office were using 'tea party,' 'patriots' and other key words to add applicants to the BOLO list. Once on that list, the groups were subjected to additional auditing of their financial practices, their membership and their political activities. Despite knowing about the program, Lerner and other senior IRS staffers withheld the information from Congress despite receiving several requests from House committees whose members heard from constituents that their tea party groups' tax-exempt approvals were taking as long as two years to be resolved. The House Oversight and Government Affairs Committee was among those that specifically asked the IRS whether it was inspecting tea party groups more closely than other applicants, including those on the political left. Lerner herself launched her agency's scandal with a planted question-and-answer exchange during a May 10 American Bar Association conference. Asked the pre-arranged question, Lerner responded by conceding that her employees had acted inappropriately. 'Instead of referring to the cases as advocacy cases, they actually used case names on this list,' she told the assembled tax lawyers. 'They used names like "tea party" or "Patriots," and they selected cases simply because the applications had those names in the title.That was wrong. That was absolutely incorrect, insensitive, and inappropriate — that’s not how we go about selecting cases for further review.' She later claimed that the increase in scrutiny of tea party groups was due to an influx of new applications from right-wing organizations, following the Supreme Court's 'Citizens United' ruling, which opened the floodgates to greater political participation by nonprofit advocacy groups. The Washington Post called that claim bogus, however, with the newspaper's fact checker awarding it a 'four Pinocchios' rating for dishonesty. Lerner's boss, acting IRS commissioner Steven Miller, was relieved of his post by Treasury Secretary Jack Lew last week, although the term of his appointment to the job was already scheduled to end in early June. Other higher-ups inside the IRS have not been publicly held accountable for the improper targeting of conservative organizations. [edit] Corrected wrong subject line. She will not be charged with implementing Obamacare
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Just so you know folks, she's pleading the Fifth and that's to keep her from implicating herself in criminal activity. She's acknowledging that the activities are criminal in nature.
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Isn't the 5th also a two-edge sword? By not saying anything bad about herself she also cannot defend herself?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Isn't the 5th also a two-edge sword? By not saying anything bad about herself she also cannot defend herself?
It can be viewed that way. But she cannot be compelled to testify against herself and incriminate herself.
However, my point is that it's an admission that she's aware that criminal activity occurred at the IRS and she's trying to protect herself as best that she can.
Furthermore, she is currently the IRS official charged with implementing Obamacare and collecting the 'taxes' required to fund it.
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Isn't the 5th also a two-edge sword? By not saying anything bad about herself she also cannot defend herself?
It can be viewed that way. But she cannot be compelled to testify against herself and incriminate herself.
However, my point is that it's an admission that she's aware that criminal activity occurred at the IRS and she's trying to protect herself as best that she can.
Furthermore, she is currently the IRS official charged with implementing Obamacare and collecting the 'taxes' required to fund it.
And if some of those testimonies may also have served to incriminate people above her, this also shields them without her having to risk perjuring herself.
::watches another sword get pulled from the closet::
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Sorry, but that's inaccurate. Lois Lerner is not going to be in charge of implementing the ironically - no, hilariously - named "Affordable Care Act". Sarah Hall Ingram served as commissioner of the office responsible for tax-exempt organizations between 2009 and 2012. But Ingram has since left that part of the IRS and is now the director of the IRS’ Affordable Care Act office, the IRS confirmed to ABC News today.http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/201...th-care-office/
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I suppose she is free to plead the 5th. It IS her right. However, being a government official, if she does plead the 5th, I would certainly continue to dig for info, and if she's culpable, charge her.
By pleading the 5th, she is exercising a right. But she also needs to realize doing that SHOULD prohibit her from having further gov't. employment. She is SUPPOSED to be acting on behalf of the country, not covering her ass AND getting a new taxpayer funded job.
I don't care WHO you are or who you work for - you SHOULD be held accountable for your actions. More so, since she works for me, and the taxpayers of this country.
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You're right... that's true. My mistake.
Ingram was Lerner's boss at the IRS. She's the one to be implementing Obamacare.
My error. Thanks for the correction.
Still, pleading the Fifth is tantamount to an admission that criminal activity occurred at the IRS and that she knew it and likely that her bosses knew it.
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I suppose she is free to plead the 5th. It IS her right. However, being a government official, if she does plead the 5th, I would certainly continue to dig for info, and if she's culpable, charge her.
By pleading the 5th, she is exercising a right. But she also needs to realize doing that SHOULD prohibit her from having further gov't. employment. She is SUPPOSED to be acting on behalf of the country, not covering her ass AND getting a new taxpayer funded job.
I don't care WHO you are or who you work for - you SHOULD be held accountable for your actions. More so, since she works for me, and the taxpayers of this country.
See Dave's correction of my earlier statement. I got them mixed up.
My apologies. Still, she served as the woman who is and this is an implication of criminal wrongdoing by the IRS.
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Its an easy mistake to make, and it doesnt change the fact that a very highly ranked official in the IRS had oversight on an illegal initiative to defund one side in the 2012 election. Does anyone really think she's the one who conceived it?
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Its an easy mistake to make, and it doesnt change the fact that a very highly ranked official in the IRS had oversight on an illegal initiative to defund one side in the 2012 election. Does anyone really think she's the one who conceived it?
I don't think that she was the one that conceived it but she's pleading the Fifth for two reasons.
1. To protect herself from incrimination by her own testimony.
2. To protect her superiors within the administration.
There is a flaw in her plan though. Being part of a bureaucracy, there is always someone going to take the fall for instituting it and I don't think her underlings are going to take the fall for it.
For example, her secretary being asked questions isn't going to protect her. Also, if she is implicated by evidence and the testimony of others, her plea won't mean anything.
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and the plot thickens....
My guess is that this was still initiated and pulled off at a relatively low level.. those closer to the top are going to get hit hard because when they found out, they didn't take the appropriate actions to stop it and punish those involved.
yebat' Putin
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The fake outrage from the right is hillarious...  IRS Inspector General, Darrell Issa Communicated Multiple Times In 2012 05/21/2013 WASHINGTON -- For all the outcry over who in the White House knew about an inspector general report detailing instances of the Internal Revenue Service targeting conservative groups, it turns out someone else was getting regular updates on the issue over the past year: Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.). J. Russell George, a Treasury Department inspector general, testified Tuesday to the Senate Finance Committee that his department was in touch with Issa's office several times in 2012 and this year regarding its IRS investigation. Here's a transcript of the exchange between George and Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), a member of the committee: MENENDEZ: Inspector General, did Chairman Issa send a letter on August 3rd of 2012 to all the inspector generals reminding them that under the Inspector Generals Act, it requires IGs to report particularly flagrant problems to Congress through the agency head within seven days, via what has been known as the seven-day letter? Did you receive that letter? And, if so, did you respond to inform Chairman Isaa of your investigation into the IRS? GEORGE: Senator, we did receive the letter, and Chairman Issa's committee was the first to actually contact us regarding this matter. And so through the course of engaging the review, on occasion we have had communications with his staff. MENENDEZ: In 2012? GEORGE: And since then, yes. Issa, who chairs the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has been one of the administration's chief antagonists. He recently sparred with Attorney General Eric Holder, accusing him of regularly keeping information from Congress. In a little-noticed interview last week, Issa indicated that he knew "approximately" what the IG would report on the IRS' selective targeting of conservative groups, but said it wasn't appropriate to "accuse the IRS until you've had a nonpartisan, deep look." web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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The fake outrage from the right is hillarious...
I hear you. Here's more fake outrage.....oh, wait.....they're democrats.   Looks like somebody's getting a little desperate and grasping at straws watching their beloved administration go down the tubes.
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IRS Draws Democrats’ Outrage, Too
Updated 3:52 p.m. | The outrage over the IRS’ selective review of conservative groups grew more bipartisan Monday, with numerous Senate Democrats joining GOP calls for an investigation.
Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., said his panel will probe the matter after reviewing an inspector general’s report on the targeting of applications from tea party groups for non-profit status.
“These actions by the IRS are an outrageous abuse of power and a breach of the public’s trust. Targeting groups based on their political views is not only inappropriate but it is intolerable,” Baucus said in a statement.
“The American people have questions for the IRS and I intend to get answers. I want to review the Inspector General’s report first, but the IRS should be prepared for a full investigation into this matter by the Senate Finance Committee,” Baucus said. “The IRS will now be the ones put under additional scrutiny.”
Back in 2010, Baucus asked the IRS to look into allegations that groups claiming tax-exempt status were conducting political operations in violation of federal tax law.
Sen. Joe Manchin III, D-W.Va., put his views rather succinctly in a Monday statement.
“The actions of the IRS are unacceptable and un-American. Government agencies using their bureaucratic muscle to target Americans for their political beliefs cannot be tolerated,” Manchin said. “The President must immediately condemn this attack on our values, find those individuals in his Administration who are responsible and fire them.”
At the end of last week Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said his Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs subcommittee would also review the matter.
“There’s no excuse for ideological discrimination in our system. The Administration should take swift action to get to the bottom of this to ensure those responsible for misconduct are held accountable and establish appropriate safeguards to prevent this from ever happening again,” Sen. Tim Kaine, D-Va., said in his own statement.
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I don't think that she was the one that conceived it but she's pleading the Fifth for two reasons.
1. To protect herself from incrimination by her own testimony.
2. To protect her superiors within the administration.
There is a flaw in her plan though. Being part of a bureaucracy, there is always someone going to take the fall for instituting it and I don't think her underlings are going to take the fall for it.
For example, her secretary being asked questions isn't going to protect her. Also, if she is implicated by evidence and the testimony of others, her plea won't mean anything.
I thought she was pleading the fifth because she is or is going to be charged with a crime.
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and the plot thickens....
My guess is that this was still initiated and pulled off at a relatively low level.. those closer to the top are going to get hit hard because when they found out, they didn't take the appropriate actions to stop it and punish those involved.
I don't. I've been listening to the House Oversight Committee hearings and I think that Douglas Shulman (at the least) is going to prison.
He stated during testimony that it is his belief that 'no conservative groups were targeted for political reasons' but then told one of the committee members questioning him that 'he didn't think anything was wrong with the targeting because other groups had been targeted for political reasons'. He contradicted his own testimony.
It's implied in his response that conservative groups were targeted for political reasons.
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And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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+1 
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Unfortunately that translates to, "IRS, please shove a microscope up my financial backside".
#GMSTRONG
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jc Lerner is represented by lawyer William W. Taylor, who is noted for winning a dismissal of all charges against former IMF director Dominique Strauss-Kahn in a high-profile sexual assault case. Lerner said at Wednesday's hearing that she had done nothing wrong. "I have not done anything wrong," she said. "I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations, and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee." This is Chicago politics at it's finest.  Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/...zz2U9I1H6dgThis
GO BROWNS!
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The real question that needs to be asked is, why hasn't this person been fired immediately? Just because she's a federal type employee and the unions are way too powerful for their own good that should be a damn thing. FIRE HER NOW! 
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... IRS apologizes for targeting
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