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If Weeden was that much of a question mark we would have done more than sign Hoyer n Campbell.
Unless they have their eye on next year's draft. That honestly has to be considered. It made perfect sense not to draft a QB this year because of the weak class and the need to evaluate Weeden along with the rest of the team. Campbell is a very solid choice at backup if Weeden falls on his face, or goes down. Should that happen, we won't necessarily tank the season, but it could leave the door open for a QB high in the first round.
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I too disagree about your "band aid theory".
Alex Smith would have been a good option for the WCO, but not in this O. This draft class didn't show any real top prospect QB's. When you have no viable options, you don't take high risk, low reward options.
I don't really feel Campbell is a band aid in terms of being a "back-up QB". I feel for this O he is an upgrade at the back-up position. No attempt was made at replacing the starter because there simply wasn't a viable option out there. Now if Weeden falls on his face? Well, just like with any team, the back-up would take over.
So unless you somehow feel Campbell was brought in as a replacement for Weeden, I don't see how you consider him a Band-Aid? And just to play devils advocate here, who would you have drafted as a solid, high percentage answer to the starting QB role if you didn't believe in Weeden and were in their shoes?
I'm not saying they don't have any faith in Weeden, but at the same time, even if they don't, there weren't any real legitimate answers to replace him in either the FA market or the draft. So by default, I think their faith in Weeden is very debatable.
My personal opinion is given Lombardis comments on Weeden when he was drafted combined with Weedens performance last year, I see no real reason for the opinion to change. I also believe the reason they didn't address the STARTING QB position was due to the options being so slim and having just as many question marks around them as Weeden.
So to me, your band aid theory is right to this extent. They felt anyone they could have drafted this year would have been a huge gamble at being a Band-Aid.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Weeden is getting another year. I'm not sure exactly how much of last year falls on Weeden and how much falls on the previous coaching staff. However, I think the fact he is getting another year isn't because of any faith in him by this FO.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm saying if Weeden is good its his position n he won't be beaten out.
I'm saying Campbell wins the starting QB position - that only occurs with Weeden falling on his face! Leaving Campbell the starting QB n definitely a Band Aid...meaning there is no long term faith in him as THE GUY. He will be a temporary QB until we can develop one to take over. That is what I'm saying. Why? Campbell has a history. I don't see in like year 8 or something his light finally turning on n he is a different QB? I see a definition on his career at this level with very little change. Can he be serviceable sure ergo Band Aid...does he have talent? Definitely - its been his inconsistent play and that has not changed over the years. I don't expect a Pwang moment here.
That is what I mean regarding if he is our QB its a Band Aid affair. I don't see what is hard to believe in that regard???
As for your assessment of Lombardi. He never stated Weeden was not a good QB during the draft just that our FO was desperate in that pick...in hind sight he was correct 100%.
As for speculation on what he thinks of Weeden for some reason you hold some statement as a Talking head in more regard than his ACTIONS as our GM here this draft. Granted the draft was void of Top Prospects for 1st round n early 2nd round QBs. But it had pretty good value for 3-5th round prospects at the QB position that not to be expected to start this season but developed. Doesn't mean they couldn't win the starting position...just highly unlikely without injury.
But he did not in FA nor in the draft showing a final assessment of Weeden by Lombardi whether he is being convinced by Norv n Chud so be it.
I just find it interesting you think Lombardi...not a Brown means more than Lombardi's actions AS A BROWN'S GM??? Why?
JMHO
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Quote:
As for your assessment of Lombardi. He never stated Weeden was not a good QB during the draft just that our FO was desperate in that pick...in hind sight he was correct 100%.
As for speculation on what he thinks of Weeden for some reason you hold some statement as a Talking head in more regard than his ACTIONS as our GM here this draft. Granted the draft was void of Top Prospects for 1st round n early 2nd round QBs. But it had pretty good value for 3-5th round prospects at the QB position that not to be expected to start this season but developed.
I just find it interesting you think Lombardi...not a Brown means more than Lombardi's actions AS A BROWN'S GM??? Why?
JMHO
Well I'll break this down into segments.
Weeden was picked at #22. And Lombardi believed that was a desperation move. I'm taking that to mean he thought Weeden wasn't worthy of that pick. So obviously Lombardi felt Weeden wasn't worthy of a first round pick and was far more of a project than anything. Can you tell me of anything Weeden has accomplished so far that would change that opinion?
As you noted, this FO could have "taken a flyer" on a guy later in the draft, but I think we all know the percentages on that working out aren't very good. I think this FO knows that too. So I do believe when and if they do go QB, it won't be a later round flyer, it will be an answer they believe in. We've had two third rounders since our return. Russel Wilson is fine, but that is far and few in between. When no viable option is available, you don't generally gamble your reputation on a high risk at the QB position.
IMO Lombardi's actions as a Brown came more out of a lack of options than anything else. The fact this was a very weak draft class at the QB position I believe speaks volumes. The fact he didn't take some high risk flyer on a mid round QB I don't believe shows his faith in Weeden is any higher than it was than when he was drafted.
Can I show you the smoking gun you are looking for? No. But of course you knew that. The only smoking gun is Weeden's performance last year. You must admit...... I think  ... that his performance last year doesn't exude confidence from anyone.
Some things are coachable and some things are not. I'm glad Weeden is getting another year. I do feel he'll be more comfortable in this O. However, I don't think a .500 season will save Weeden's job. And I believe when this FO makes a move at QB, it will be a major investment, not a flyer on a second or third round pick.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think a lot of times our fans have a skewed vision of our players' skill/potential/talent/etc. In my opinion too many of us are quick to give Josh Gordon the "#1 Receiver" tag just because of some positive signs last year. I am of the opinion that Josh Gordon is going to have a 2nd year slump (notice how his numbers declined near the end of last year) and still has a long way to go as a polished, reliable WR. I hope I'm wrong.
No doubt about it! Seemed everyone thought the same for MoMass too. MoMass became NoMass in a blink of an eye.. with or without the injuries he was below average.
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Questioning whether this regime will produce a winner is one thing, but to not be able to see with your own eyes the huge difference in the skill set between Josh Gordon and Mo Mass is something else entirely.
I agree he hasn't made himself a bona fide #1 WR as of yet. But his potential to do so far exceeds that of Mo Mass. There is very little comparison there when it comes to skills and ability.
It doesn't mean he WILL be a #1 NFL WR, but these two names aren't even close to being the same players.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree with you Pit ... Gordon has the skillset to be a great WR, but my original point was also that we've heard these fluff pieces before. It's not that I personally don't think Gordon is/will be good, it's just that I want to SEE it first. It's not Gordon's fault that the past 2nd Round Wrs have been garbage, but he's going to have to prove it to me first before I will say he is great.
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JMHO
Well I'll break this down into segments.
Weeden was picked at #22. And Lombardi believed that was a desperation move. I'm taking that to mean he thought Weeden wasn't worthy of that pick. So obviously Lombardi felt Weeden wasn't worthy of a first round pick and was far more of a project than anything. Can you tell me of anything Weeden has accomplished so far that would change that opinion?
JMHO
Pit, I think this could be looked at a few different ways. Was Weeden a desperation move? I think so and I think he was a reach in the 1st round, but in Weeden's defense I think he was setup to fail, not intentionally, but drafting a QB like Weeden and playing him in the short yardage system he was in did not play to the man's strengths.
The guy was a rookie playing with a group of rookies and young players, how much success did you think he was going to have?
Now that Weeden will be playing in a system that plays to his strengths, he will have every opportunity to prove if he is the guy or not. This will be Weeden's year.
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I really beleive Weeden is going to have a BIG year ... With a more experianced WR corp, an offense that plays to his strengths ie shotgun and more downfield passing instead of dink and dunk ...JMHO 
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2013 NFL quarterback battles: Who has the edge? 7. Browns: Brandon Weeden vs. Jason Campbell Too much was made of Jason Campbell getting off to a strong start this week. The Canton Repository reported that the veteran "definitely had better sessions than Weeden" on Thursday before falling back to earth on Friday. I can't take Brian Hoyer seriously as anything but a backup. Rob Chudzinski and Norv Turner are going all out to craft this offense to Weeden's strengths. Turner told Toni Grossi of ESPN Cleveland: "Brandon's got the physical skills to do what we want to do. ... I think (he) can have success in this offense, in this system." Optimistic talk, but Weeden is under pressure to prove it. Advantage:Weeden. Link
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j/c: It amazes me how much love Weeden gets on this board. A guy like DA, who cost us nothing, put up one of the best years in Brown's history [not since '99, but history] and got slammed repeatedly. Yet Weeden, who cost us a first round pick and is the same age as DA is NOW, puts up a truly terrible year----and people make excuse after excuse after excuse for him. Wonder why that is???? 
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j/c:
A guy like DA, who cost us nothing, put up one of the best years in Brown's history [not since '99, but history]
Maybe it is because it was all stats  ...where the players such as Edwards and KWII bailed him out making great catches. DA's biggest stats were INT's and ZERO PLAYOFF GAMES.
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Quote:
Questioning whether this regime will produce a winner is one thing, but to not be able to see with your own eyes the huge difference in the skill set between Josh Gordon and Mo Mass is something else entirely.
I agree he hasn't made himself a bona fide #1 WR as of yet. But his potential to do so far exceeds that of Mo Mass. There is very little comparison there when it comes to skills and ability.
It doesn't mean he WILL be a #1 NFL WR, but these two names aren't even close to being the same players.
JMHO
I'm not tying to compare the 2 at all. I mean, I would put money on it right now that Gordon turns out to be quite a bit better than MoMass. Geez that certainly isn't too hard for him to accomplish.
Gordon has a long way to go to get all the praise that you hear though. He is very very raw and you only have to look back at the Cowboys game to be a bit skeptical. He had a very good rookie year, but I want to see a more polished receiver this year and especially the next year.
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Oh dear God ..... Weeden did not put up a "truly terrible year". He broke the rookie record for yards by a Browns rookie QB. He had a historically bad 1st game, and then threw 14 TD and 13 INT from there out. That's not great, and it's not "truly terrible". It's somewhere in the middle. He had issues, and like most rookie QB, he had problems on the field that need to be corrected. He also played in an offense that was about as far away from playing to his strengths as noon is from midnight. We'll see how he does this year.
People forget that DA was here before 2007, and actually played in 2006. He threw 5 TD and 8 INT and looked fairly awful. He gave little indication that he would be a superstar for a year. (even though I got blasted at the time for saying that I would prefer seeing what he had over seeing more of Frye)
We'll see what happens with Turner and Chud working with him. Frankly I hope that he has a tremendous season, and takes us to the Super Bowl. I don't necessarily believe that we'll make it there, not this year, but that's what I'll hope for until it's proved that we can't get there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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People forget that DA was here before 2007, and actually played in 2006. He threw 5 TD and 8 INT and looked fairly awful. He gave little indication that he would be a superstar for a year. (even though I got blasted at the time for saying that I would prefer seeing what he had over seeing more of Frye)
He actually looked pretty good for a raw sixth rounder.
Led a comeback win against the Chiefs IIRC, and then didn't crap the bed against the Steelers and Ravens.
He did crap the bed in the closer.
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Well, we were down by 7 in that KC game IIRC, and yeah, he did bring us back, playing a solid game.
We played the Steelers, and scored a single TD, late in the 4th quarter, down by 4 scores. DA was up and down. As I said, he showed enough that I wanted to see more, but he wasn't spectacular by any stretch. He had also spent almost 2 years in the NFL prior starting his 1st game. Further, he had experienced players around him. We had Edwards, Winslow, and Jurevicius to throw to. Edwards was a 3rd year receiver in 2007. Winslow was in his 4th year. We also added Lewis at RB in 2007. We had a very experienced offense around an inexperienced QB. last year we had a ton of inexperience ... and even our depth was very young.
I do think that one of our most important acquisitions this off-season is Bess, and I think that he will help both the receivers and Weeden.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
j/c:
It amazes me how much love Weeden gets on this board.
A guy like DA, who cost us nothing, put up one of the best years in Brown's history [not since '99, but history] and got slammed repeatedly. Yet Weeden, who cost us a first round pick and is the same age as DA is NOW, puts up a truly terrible year----and people make excuse after excuse after excuse for him.
Wonder why that is????
I'll only speak for myself on that front, Vers, so my take on your question takes a side trip.
From me, DA never really got 'slammed.' Criticized for bad play on specific threads/plays/series? Oh, HELLZYEAH.... and without reservation. I was on top of Cloud 30 when he was hitting strikes downfield in '07. I also HATED some aspects of his short-medium game... and said so, in no uncertain terms. In all, I THINK I saw him in a balanced way, whether I liked or hated his performance.... not just from one game to the next- but from one series to the next.
(I'll give him credit... he ALWAYS made for interesting, unpredictable games... hehehe.)
So.... I think I saw him for who he truly was... for good or ill. That means: from thread to thread, you might see me both praise AND castigate DA (or any other player) ... and sometimes within the same week, - and even in reference to the same game. Good drives, bad drives... an honest poster can call them both. I won't deny that I was pulling for DA... the homer in me wanted even Lady Luck to intervene, when it came to seeing our players execute. Still in all, I can't remember a time that I didn't both praise DA.... AND rail against the stupid things that he/we did, back in '07.
In the end, the NFL figured out a way to beat not only DA, but the way in which the Browns used DA.... so they not only exposed DA for the QB he was- they also exposed the Browns for what they wereat the time. It's what they do. They're the N F (reakkin') L. The best of the best. We as fans, should expect no less than that... from even the worst teams in the league.
See what I mean, Dawg? Some of us are capable of critically evaluating a player without agenda.... and sometimes, even against 'fan loyalty." I mean... when the Truth's staring a person in the face, he has 2 choices:
1. accept the good AND bad
2. jump on the agenda train' that's heading to his destination. ("He SUX!" / "He's GOD- but misunderstood...")
In other words, I loved DA for what he did well (for us), and died a thousand deaths when his alter ego stepped up. Balance, yo.
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Brandon Weeden: I'm anxious to see him play his way through this learning curve. From all we know about Norv Turner and our new HC, they excel in designing schemes that are tailor-made to it the skills of their present personnel. If all we've been told about them is true, how could a Browns fan NOT be excited to see Weeden in a system that just might be designed to maximize his abilities, while simultaneously taking him out of schemes/situations that clearly made him struggle? If nothing else, we should be excited to see this kid perform for the sole purpose of seeing what he truly has.... and has not. As many of us have agreed: this year is Brandon's Big Stage. The spot is his to win or lose.
Rest assured, Vers- sink or swim, Weedz will probably get a more objectve, dispassionate evaluation this upcoming season than DA got from me in '07.
Why?
Because I'm now a more dedicated student of The Game than I could ever be "a player's fan."
Translation: I can be hopeful for the chance to see a new, improved, better-used Weeden, without being blind to any mistakes he might make. Curious to see him in a new system, without being smitten by 'Player Love.'
We DO exist, bud-
-------------
I see that you posted a "j/c" at the top of your post, so I asssume that:
1. The post was a general question for all
2. Perhaps also posted as a general rhetorical question to 'a general' set of specific posters?
In either instance, there will be some of us who might answer you without a particular 'fanboy' POV... no matter WHO the player is- but dependent upon the circumstances of the particular post.
just sayin'...
Clemmy.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Holy five years ago, Batman! This thread has taken an interesting turn.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I remember coming home from work on a Sunday evening ...... and seeing that DA's 1st start had resulted in 50+ points.
I then remember getting online, and seeing people slam DA for not playing well in the game. It wasn't a lot of people at that point ..... but there were several who were pretty merciless, beating him over the head for any faults, major or minor, perceived or real, that they saw.
This was after one of the best scoring outputs in Browns history.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I really beleive Weeden is going to have a BIG year ... With a more experianced WR corp, an offense that plays to his strengths ie shotgun and more downfield passing instead of dink and dunk ...JMHO
You mean we shouldnt get rid of a QB after a somewhat bad rookie season?
People who already judge Weeden to be a bad QB dont know a thing about football. I just laugh when I hear people around the league, especially so called "experts", write off Weeden as a terrible QB already. And its even funnier when Browns fans do this.
Anyone who actually watched all of Brandon Weeden's games last year saw that he has all of the tools to be a good QB. Am I saying he had a great season? Absolutely not. Am I saying he didnt make a bunch of mistakes? Absolutely not. But all of the mistakes he made are to be expected from a rookie. And they can be fixed.
Its not like Colt McCoy, where you can watch a game and just tell he doesnt have what it takes. Because he simply doesnt have the arm talent to compete in this league. All of the mistakes Brandon Weeden was making can fixed.
Oh, not to mention that we had an awful HC/play caller who didnt play to AT ALL to the strengths of our QB or entire offense for that matter. You think Andrew Luck, RG3, or Russell Wilson would have had the kind of success that they did, with Pat Shurmur as their coach? Hell no! They had such great success because their coaches molded their offense to their strengths. Like any good coach should do.
I also think its funny how Browns fans bash Weeden but never seem to talk about the disappointing season Richardson had. Richardson was more disappointing last year, considering he was taken so early! I know he was injured so you have to take that into account but still. Before we knew about the broken ribs, everyone was talking about how great Richardson was. Besides the TDs he has an awful season!
So Browns fans who think you can write off Weeden after 1 season are an embarrassment to the rest of us. This new notion that you can judge a QB based on their rookie season is ridiculous. Especially considering Weeden's circumstances.
I think Weeden will flourish in this new offense that fits him well, Flash Gordon will be a STUD, and T-Rich will be a STUD.
If you think Weeden wont be a good QB thats fine and understandable. But dont support that by saying its because he had a bad rookie season, on a very young team, with an incompetent HC/play caller. You just look stupid. 
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I remember coming home from work on a Sunday evening ...... and seeing that DA's 1st start had resulted in 50+ points.
I then remember getting online, and seeing people slam DA for not playing well in the game. It wasn't a lot of people at that point ..... but there were several who were pretty merciless, beating him over the head for any faults, major or minor, perceived or real, that they saw.
This was after one of the best scoring outputs in Browns history.
Thats because those so called "Browns fans" arent really fans. Some people like to call themselves Browns fans, but in reality they just complain and bash the Browns for anything and everything. Some "Browns fans" are just so cynical that they are no longer fans. They pretty much root for the Browns to fail so that they can complain and act like they are right.
We have some of the best fans in the world and some of the worst...
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Norv Turner has fielded the NFL’s leading rusher on five separate occasions (three different backs) during his coaching career—Emmitt Smith, Ricky Williams and LaDanian Tomlinson.
Now this is what I'm hoping for. Get Richardson up and running early and often. Set some Browns rushing records!
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Some things are coachable and some things are not. I'm glad Weeden is getting another year. I do feel he'll be more comfortable in this O. However, I don't think a .500 season will save Weeden's job. And I believe when this FO makes a move at QB, it will be a major investment, not a flyer on a second or third round pick.
Totally concur. I get sooooooo sick and tired hearing about this 3rd/4th/6th rounder that can be developed as your future QB. It's all a crock o BS. I don't give a damn about Brady. And I'm one that is saying Wilson will end up nothing more than an AVG QB in this league. This is one case where SIZE DOES MATTER. DC's now have film on this smurf. Seattle will be doing things to constantly bail him out starting this year. Just watch.
Regardless of what Weeden does this year, I am fully ready to see us utilize the extra 3rd and 4th rounder we have next year to make a move for a QB. And I'm even more ready and EXPECT us to use our 2015 1st rounder in a package deal to go up and snag the QB we like most. And if this Bridgewater Kat is THAT damn good and someone in the Top 3 is willing to make a deal, I can easily see us using our 2016 1st rounder also. Yep. You read that right. An RGIII type deal. To get a REAL QB. Not some chump 3rd or 4th rounder that has a 10% chance of ever mounting up to anything.
On Gordon being a bonafide #1 WR. He's ALREADY our #1 Wide-Out. Make no mistake about it. The only thing left for him is WHEN the rest of the League sees him as a bonafide Top 10 #1 WR in the league. And that will come with production on the field.
Sometimes I wonder if many even saw what Chud's offense did here in 2007. And that team did not have anywhere near the talent we field today. Bringing Chud here as OC took that offense to another level. This OL is way better than 07's. Richardson is a better version of what was an aging Lewis in 07. And I'm tellin' ya right now that Chud and Turner see something in the Winslow mold with Cameron.
Hell. In 2007 we didn't even have a decent #2 receiver. Carter/Cribbs/Wilson? PLEASE. With a QB who is much in the mold of Anderson in Weeden with better short range touch on the ball. And an OL that has continuity. I'd put this 5 headed monstor ABOVE the 2007 version any day of the week.
Gordon
Little
BESS (Our shorter Jurevicious)
Cameron
Richardson
This is a huge part of why we are seeing some people clamoring about us being a "Surprise team in 2013". WE WILL SCORE SOME POINTS.
We get about 5 games under us with Horton's defense and anything can happen.
Ready for THIS people?
I see this team being potentially 11-5. You read that right. 11-5.
You guys are making way too much out of scheme changes and coaching changes. I would tend to agree IF and ONLY IF we did a huge roster purge. Which we DID NOT DO. What happened to Houston's defense last year WITHOUT Mario Williams and WITH a change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 when they brought in a REAL Defensive Coordinator in Phillips?
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Oh dear God ..... Weeden did not put up a "truly terrible year". He broke the rookie record for yards by a Browns rookie
That's what I was thinking.
I am not one who makes excuses for Weeden, but all things considered I thought he had a pretty good first year as a pro.
No doubt he needs to improve on that, but I think it is WAY early to simply say the guy sucks.
We'll have a better feel for where this is headed by game 6 or so.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I believe that TR should establish himself as an elite back this year, so long as he stay healthy and on the field.
I think that Weeden probably has the best shot that he is ever gonna have at succeeding in the league this year. I mean, as Browns fans over the years, we have always watched QB's fail in every conceivable way, and the same things happen to other QB's around the league when they are often immersed in the same archetypical situation; first round talent, surrounded by a patchwork team.
For the first time in what seems like forever, I feel like the Browns second year QB actually has a team around him that, IMO, qualifies as a sound supporting cast. I mean, we have strong protection on the OL, a seriously talented RB to lean on, a group of young talented WR's, an offensive coaching tandem that really gets it, so to speak.
So, with a heck of a lot of the pieces in place right now, it certainly appears that Cleveland is an ideal landing spot for any young QB trying to make it in the league, and for one second year guy, this may be the best shot he is ever going to get.
I think our wr core is set to break-out as a serious threat that opponents really have to game-plan for, and Jordan Cameron has got himself a great coach/mentor to hopefully rescue him from a seriously uneventful "career."
The defense as a unit has a chance to really advance too. I couldn't really pinpoint a player in particular. But I think that, as a group, they are poised with some key additions, to really make some strides this season. We really addressed the pass-rush through both the draft and FA, and that could really have a dramatic effect across the board. Allowing the secondary to play more aggressively, and hopefully lead to more turnovers, and more 3rd and longs due to increased negative plays....
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Can you tell me of anything Weeden has accomplished so far that would change that opinion?
1. He has accomplished the ranking of the #1 QB by the current staff of Norv Turner n Chud. And no I'm not saying named the starter. But still he is set up as #1 taking the bulk of the first team reps in the KING OF THE HILL process in this competition. If you mean only Stats can be used in regards to your choice of word accomplished then there is not stat I can place other than a whole bunch of great QBs without good stats their rookie season.
2. There has been a quote lingering from the 2011 draft. Maggert n Hoyer he stated as a talking head that he thinks both could be (will be) starters in the NFL. Did he think they Should be First Round picks. Just cause he stated that we might have reached with Weeden (also how much of that desperation statement had to do with wrong QB for the system?) was that him saying WEEDEN would not be a starter. Or just it was a better pick if we took him at 36 or something instead of 22...Ok I will agree 100% Weeden is playing like an Overall #36 pick not 22
But to think Norv n Chud having him as the #1 QB going in is not an accomplishment that is not correct. They could have easily of said...we think he's a dud...get us something else. Instead they did not draft a prospect nor went hard for a FA QB or set up a trade in discussion for a QB. 
Weak draft class for QBs...lalalalalala - nice words means squat cause here is the fact.
Weak draft class for 1st round QBs...very true.
You get into the 3rd n 4th round because there was never that Run on QBs some EXCELLENT value on QBs in the mid rounds. I mean ratings are not the end all. But the QB ratings Prospect values. were terrible for first round - any pick would have been a big reach. But lets say a normal value set up for 3rd or 4th round prospects are like 70-75...The best values on board were several QBs with a ranking of 80-85...guys who were mentioned maybe in the first round (but not a good value pick) well it was 3rd or 4th round n they were still around. If we were totally disatisfied with Weeden we would hav invested in a Developmental QB. Lombardi n staff chose not to. Yes, no QB in the first was due to no real value...but later there actually was very good value n we didn't take it which told me we DIDN'T HAVE QB ON OUR BOARD...maybe Manuel in the 3rd??? Who knows but much of the rest we knew cause we just showed no interest what so ever.
I'm not stating Weeden is great. I am stating he is a heck of a lot GREATER then his play of last year. Man if you really wish to know the facts you would see so. The environment he was placed in was ABSURD. What makes me a little more PO'd is that fact that Shurmur before n even after is touted as a Good QB Coach. He was TERRIBLE. Just by looking at one fact even if you didn't know ONE THING about QB play but look at the fact n LOGIC.
He came from a Shotgun Offense that is where his comfort zone was. Like many college QB - I think Luck was the only one with a lot of time under center as Stanford ran a PRO offense. Not out of rookies but out of ALL QBs in the NFL...Weeden took the highest pct. of snaps from under CENTER in all of the NFL. Something you didn't see too much from RG3 or Wilson - QBs who succeeded. But HIGHEST Pct. of all NFL QBs more than Payton, Rogers, Brees, Big Ben, Flacco, well all of them. A ROOKIE put into the most uncomfortable environment for HIM. In a system built on Rhythm another total nuance...NO this is our QB we will WEEN him into the system little by little but in the mean times lets BUILD HIS CONFIDENCE with success.
That is how all these Feel good rookie QB success stories have done it...no secret formula. Just given the opportunity to be successful. I didn't see that afforded to Weeden. Just from that one STAT/FACT should tell you his environment was TERRIBLE by Shurmur! Terrible job coaching.
So you wish to put all your APPLES in that - "The only smoking gun is Weeden's performance last year. You must admit...... I think ... that his performance last year doesn't exude confidence from anyone."
See this is where we differ big time...you look last year n see it as some "AHA" moment regarding his abilities as a QB.
Me - I see it as possibly THE WORST COACHING JOB EVER for a rookie QB to experience. So that I don't know what we got n wish to see more n don't see him Busting??? Everything we are doing whether it is Lombardi or simply Lombardi listening to Chud n Norv. But their actions seem to be alligned with my thoughts as they got him right now as THE KING OF THE HILL. In a competition that states volumes.
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However, I don't think a .500 season will save Weeden's job.
I think it will be how he plays not the RECORD. If he plays well n we are .500 That is different then him playing bad n we are .500 See you already are ready to job a young QB for all the wrong reasons...of course W n L is important but if you are assessing a development of a QB that is one of the fewest facts...IF IT WAS, TEBOW IS THE BEST YOUNG QB IN THE NFL...look at his record.
If we don't have...we would take that flyer in the 3rd round on a developmental QB which had higher ratings than where the slot was. There is no pressure to have them start but you coach them up its not a Sure thing like an overall #1 pick which BTW we will never SEE we just are too good to be the WORST TEAM in football.
Sometimes I wonder what you dawgs judge your evaluations from. You don't have an IOTA of a QB Guess what YOU DO TAKE A FLYER on a Mid Round QB if that is where the VALUE IS! For you to remotely twist that to say he doesn't like Weeden n not taking a QB mid round when value WAS THERE means nothing. I just don't see the logic in that.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I agree. Even if Weeden has a good year I still want to go and get that elite QB that will be here for years to come. But only if the right QB is there. We need a young QB that can grow with the rest of our young team.
And I think the FO/coaching staff probably agrees. I think barring an absolutely incredible season from Weeden, the Browns will want to bring in "their guy".
I like Weeden but taking a 30 year old in the 1st round is just stupid.
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Quote:
I agree. Even if Weeden has a good year I still want to go and get that elite QB that will be here for years to come. But only if the right QB is there. We need a young QB that can grow with the rest of our young team.
And I think the FO/coaching staff probably agrees. I think barring an absolutely incredible season from Weeden, the Browns will want to bring in "their guy".
I like Weeden but taking a 30 year old in the 1st round is just stupid.
It isn't stipid if he turns in to a solid QB.
Some of you think a 1st round QB should be like Manning....it's good if they do, but something less is fine by me.
If Weeden pans out this year, he can still be here 7-8 years. Based on what we have had, I'll take it.
We had Otto Graham for years.....after that we have had several QB's who played 6-8 years tops....and a bunch who played 2-3.....except Couch who somehow managed 59 starts......maybe 30 more than warranted.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We simply disagree Tab. Lombardi didn't like the weeden pick when he was drafted, and Weeden did not "shine" last year. Nothing Weeden did would change Lombardi's opinion "so far". Say what you will, but I don't believe this FO wants another project here. I think when and if they do draft a QB, it will be what they perceive to be a REAL answer at the position. Is Weeden our starter as of now? Yes he is. And you can dismiss this class as being weak at the QB position if you like, but far more than most understand it, realize it and admit it. Weeden isn't here because he was so good. He's here because this FO didn't see a sure fire upgrade at the position. Now you can disagree with that if you wish. But Weeden did nothing to change the opinion Lombardi had in him coming out in the draft. Luckily I don't think Lombardi has the final say on everything or we could end up with the next Hoyer as our QB!  I hope Weeden proves Lombardi wrong. But to suggest, which was my point, that Lombardi somehow likes Weeden now, when he didn't consider him first round material then? I'm not buying it man.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Conversely, there are three sides to the coin:
1. What he said (or was paid to say) as a TV analyst.
2. What he'll publicly state as the GM of that QB's team
3. What he actually thinks.
Basically, I don't think you can put any more faith in what he said on TV after the draft than you can in what he might say in a press conference tomorrow.
It's the NFL - they're going to roll with who they've got at EVERY position until/unless they get their hands on a better player.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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But Weeden did nothing to change the opinion Lombardi had in him coming out in the draft.
Thats a big time ASSumption into his mind when actually again his actions as an NFL Browns GM he did not take that much heed to his Talking Head quotes as we do. He just reviewed Weeden with film of games n practices...he also had discussions about the position (Weeden) with Chud n Norv. His actions? We were not mentioned a remote player for Alex Smith. We didn't remotely think about Flynn. We never made a move for Maggert. We didn't draft a QB in the mid rounds. We have Weeden taking the VAST reps with the #1. This is not as much a competition as you think. Its simply a vindication of Weeden being ready to Run this Offense. This is not opinion - This is what I SEE. But you state you wish to disagree n then make your case with a total MADE UP THOUGHT PROCESS of Lombardi due to a quote he made as a Talking Head which I always read as an Indictment to our FO more than to Weeden as the prospect.
Cle216...I've been saying all along that we cannot ignore Weeden's Age. In lieu of that even if he studs out to our highest hopes. Within the next 5 years we must make a major investment into QB...not a 3/4 first round picks to move up to #1 thing. Just in the next five years having the right QB that we like FALL to us in the probably the 2nd round or late first round. Where they can develop similar to how Rivers was developed n he was an Overall #4 pick but not rushed in cause they did have a good QB out there. I would hope that if that prospect is Great written all over him after 2-3 years - I would hope that we would get a Kings Ransom for Weeden to a QB starved team. Just a thought process I would love. Several teams have done something similar n I just see it making a good team into a dynasty. So I do covet it.
My only negative I had from last season which did puzzle me regarding Weeden...is I didn't see that "IT" Factor - usually you will get several glimpses of that IT FACTOR during the season. I remember only once n Once just is not a statement to bank. So that is the only ??? I have on Weeden that will be answered in this season. Among other things.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Arps n Cal Dawg: Benjamin I don't see him coming out in any way outside of possibly some success at Kickoff Returns.
1. I was totally disappointed in him on the field of play. A good example is that INT they show everytime Ed Reed would come up in discussion on NFL Network. Benjamin I think was doing a 7 Corner route. Downfield. Weeden under threw him. Ed Reed came sprinting over from his Safety position n makes the catch on the run. During that entire exchange the shot if from a QB view (but close up) you see Benjamin just standing there at a complete stop not making ONE MOVE TOWARDS the ball. Then he just watches Reed make the INT n does nothing to break it up or even tackle him. This was just one play seen over n over. But consistently in his play - HE PLAYED SCARED! I don't see him making it in the NFL n if he takes on some big hits as a KO return guy. Look for him to wussy out there n run out of bounds every play or take the knee.
2. There is a reason why we went out n got Bess for the slot. This currently puts Benjamin as our 4th WR n no room for him to climb up. With a possibility of the kid we signed from Buffalo healing n dropping Benjamin even further.
So in lieu of that I really don't see Benjamin as being a break out player at all. Actually if he doesn't make it as a KO return guy who could be Cut.
Then some say surprised about Ward??? Huh? only health questions but because of his persona being that of an attack type of SS n has been in a very low key none aggressive D - but the few times he did attack he looked GREAT.
I thought Little btw broke out last year in the 2nd half...you can see the light just come on! His routes got so crisp his comfort was there n caught everything. His blocking is awesome!
My breakout guy is Gipson 
JMHO
so tab, if benjamin is cut who returns ko's and punts. clearly the new fo has no interest in cdribbs.
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I agree. Even if Weeden has a good year I still want to go and get that elite QB that will be here for years to come. But only if the right QB is there. We need a young QB that can grow with the rest of our young team.
And I think the FO/coaching staff probably agrees. I think barring an absolutely incredible season from Weeden, the Browns will want to bring in "their guy".
I like Weeden but taking a 30 year old in the 1st round is just stupid.
It isn't stipid if he turns in to a solid QB.
Some of you think a 1st round QB should be like Manning....it's good if they do, but something less is fine by me.
If Weeden pans out this year, he can still be here 7-8 years. Based on what we have had, I'll take it.
We had Otto Graham for years.....after that we have had several QB's who played 6-8 years tops....and a bunch who played 2-3.....except Couch who somehow managed 59 starts......maybe 30 more than warranted.
In my opinion, using a 1st round pick on a "solid" QB is a fail. Especially if he is 30 years old.
In today's NFL a "solid" QB isnt enough. QB is one of the position that you need a really good or elite player at this point. Its not the days of Trent Dilfer.
Having said that, I believe that Weeden can become much more than a solid QB, especially in this system with Norv Turner coaching him. And youre right he can probably play for another 7-8 years. Also he doesnt have a 30 year old football body, meaning since he hasnt been playing football that long, he doesnt have the same wear and tear that a regular 30 year old NFL player would.
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Quote:
Conversely, there are three sides to the coin:
1. What he said (or was paid to say) as a TV analyst.
2. What he'll publicly state as the GM of that QB's team
3. What he actually thinks.
Basically, I don't think you can put any more faith in what he said on TV after the draft than you can in what he might say in a press conference tomorrow.
It's the NFL - they're going to roll with who they've got at EVERY position until/unless they get their hands on a better player.
And that is what I too believe.
I don't really think there's a right or wrong here, merely opinions. None of us know what he really thinks of Weeden.
I do disagree with Tabs opinion simply because I don't think Alex smith fit the system and Flynn isn't what I think is a "clear cut solution" in the eyes of many. Mid round draft picks are also a long term crap shoot.
He may be right, but pointing to the fact that they didn't try to answer a question mark with just as many or more question marks doesn't dissuade me from my opinion on the matter.
I don't believe they want their first attempt at addressing the QB situation to be a huge gamble that fails. And I do believe any direction they went this off-season either by FA or the draft would have been such a huge gamble.
While that opinion may not be correct, it certainly isn't as far fetched I believe as it's being made out to sound.
I'm glad they are giving Weeden a shot rather than the options afforded them this off-season. My belief is still that is if he doesn't really light it up, it will be his last chance as a starter for the Browns. But for all of our sakes, I hope he does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c Secret Superstar: John Greco With our Secret Superstar series reaching its second week, we’ve already highlighted players from seven teams, giving you some potential breakout stars for the 2013 season and even giving one player an awesome new nickname. Our second week begins with a look at the Cleveland Browns. Though they have been that “other” team in the AFC North for far too long, with their three division rivals combining for five playoff appearances and a Super Bowl championship in the last two seasons alone, the Browns were far more competitive in 2012. That’s in no small part down to better drafting over recent years, with the team hitting on top picks and finding value lower down in the draft better than they ever have since their return to the league. Though they still have a massive question mark at the quarterback position, the Browns’ future looks brighter than it has in a long time. So, with more quality players on the roster, who was the one who we felt didn’t get the credit he deserved? Well, on a line that features Joe Thomas and got fantastic production from rookie Mitchell Schwartz, it was left guard John Greco who caught our attention. Fighting For A Starting Spot A four-year starter at offensive tackle at Toledo, Greco became a three-time All-MAC recipient. He was then drafted by the St. Louis Rams in the third round of the 2008 NFL Draft. A backup in his rookie year, he played just 174 snaps on offense, Greco gave a good account of himself on the limited opportunities available and was solid in his only start of the season in Week 17 against the Atlanta Falcons. He found himself in the same backup role in 2009 and, once again, put in decent performances while not setting the world on fire when he did get onto the field. While his 2010 season was similar in terms of snap count, this time Greco did more than play at a solid level. Finishing the year with a grade of +8.9 despite playing just 153 snaps, this was the first indication that he deserved of a starting spot somewhere in the league. That spot wouldn’t be in St. Louis as the Rams traded him to the Browns for a conditional seventh-round pick, allowing him to follow offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur who had taken the job as the Browns’ head coach. Still, while Shurmur’s familiarity with him may have helped him onto the roster in Cleveland, it didn’t guarantee him a starting job and it took until starting left guard Jason Pinkston went down in Week 6 of the 2012 season for him to see time as a starter. Greco started with a bang, delivering the best performance of his career in his first start for the Browns against the Indianapolis Colts. Perfect in pass protection, it was as a run blocker that he truly starred. The highest yards per carry for the Browns that day came on runs to either side of him. Training Camp Battle While he impressed down the stretch as a starter, Greco will likely have to battle with Pinkston to keep the starting job, especially with a new coaching staff coming in. Having new coaches, though, should allow it to be about who earns the job and, based on the past two seasons, there should be only one winner. Pinkston started straight out of the gate as a rookie in 2011 and, while he had a couple of nice performances, he was generally unimpressive. Grading negatively both as a pass blocker and a run blocker, he allowed just one sack in his rookie season. Sacks don’t tell the whole story, however, with him also allowing 10 hits and 24 hurries. That all added up to give him a Pass Blocking Efficiency (PBE) Rating of 95.9, ranking 43rd out of the 55 guards who played at least 50% of their team’s offensive snaps. Pinkston was better as a pass blocker in the limited amount of action he saw in 2012, with a PBE Rating of 98.0 before his injury. Greco was impressive as a starter, but his own PBE Rating of 96.5 wasn’t much better than Pinkston’s 2011 mark — it was his work as a run blocker that set him apart. Playing 714 snaps, Greco’s run blocking grade of +11.3 was seventh among all guards. His impressive play was highlighted recently in an edition of Neil’s NFL Daily, showing him to have a positively-graded block on 14.40% of his run blocks, a percentage that was fifth at his position. He’s shown signs of it throughout his career but it looks like now might finally be the time for Greco to get the chance to prove himself over a full season. Second-Tier Guard? When you look at the players at the guard position in the NFL, there are two tiers at the top. The first features Evan Mathis alone, such has been his level of dominance at the position, but in the next tier you have players like Mike Iupati, Marshal Yanda and Josh Sitton. It’s unlikely that Greco is going to put together a season that would put him on par with Mathis but, with 16 starts and a slight improvement in play, it’s not out of the question for him to enter that second tier. First, he has to ensure he wins that starting job. If he does, and continues to play like he has, more people will be talking about him soon. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/05/20/secret-superstar-john-greco/
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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That makes me almost giddy.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Nice article. I love seen a fellow Boardman High School alum do well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ahmen to that!
"Greco started with a bang, delivering the best performance of his career in his first start for the Browns against the Indianapolis Colts. Perfect in pass protection, it was as a run blocker that he truly starred. The highest yards per carry for the Browns that day came on runs to either side of him."
Nice sentence. I liked Grecco. For being signed as "back-up" or "depth" addition, he is actually IMO a decent starter.
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Quote:
Ahmen to that!
"Greco started with a bang, delivering the best performance of his career in his first start for the Browns against the Indianapolis Colts. Perfect in pass protection, it was as a run blocker that he truly starred. The highest yards per carry for the Browns that day came on runs to either side of him."
Nice sentence. I liked Grecco. For being signed as "back-up" or "depth" addition, he is actually IMO a decent starter.
I believe OG became less of draft day priority because of Greco ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,568 Likes: 147
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,568 Likes: 147 |
Quote:
Ahmen to that!
"Greco started with a bang, delivering the best performance of his career in his first start for the Browns against the Indianapolis Colts. Perfect in pass protection, it was as a run blocker that he truly starred. The highest yards per carry for the Browns that day came on runs to either side of him."
Nice sentence. I liked Grecco. For being signed as "back-up" or "depth" addition, he is actually IMO a decent starter.
Recognized elsewhere as well. ProFootballFocus ranked our line as #5 overall in 2012. Notice the mention of Greco..........after Pinkston when down.
5. Cleveland Browns (14)
PB – 3rd, RB – 11th, PEN – 25th
Stud: In the upcoming weeks or so we’re going to do a piece on how often (per second) Joe Thomas (+25.6) gives up pressure compared to the rest of the league. It’s stunning how shutdown he is. Now, if only his run blocking matched up to his work in the pass game.
Dud: You can get by with players like Shawn Lauvao (-7.3) when the rest of your line is so good.
Summary: It’s not the done thing to give praise to Cleveland. That said, their line is extremely talented and when they were forced to introduce John Greco into the lineup they got even better. The stars are Thomas and Alex Mack, but the play of rookie Mitchell Schwartz bodes well for this line for a long time to come.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/4/
Let this sink in..... On 12-31-23 it be will 123123.
On the flip side, you can tune a piano but you can't tune-a-fish.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 5 Browns Poised for a Breakout
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