Jim Brown one of my All Time Heroes as a Cleveland Brown, as an athlete in general as an American.
I don't get the negative views of him at all.
First you have to remember the time period he came into this prominence. He was no thug...he was nurtured n mentored by a group of Long Island businessmen who recognized his athletic prowess in Jr. High.
The greatest Lacrosse Player ever. The greatest football player ever.
At a time when this just couldn't be in our history...Not a man of COLOR.
A Heisman Trophy candidate that should have won HANDS down. Snubbed but he laid the road hard fought for Ernie Davis. Picked #6 in the draft?
Was thought of as a SuperMan by his peers. What a man of Color...we got to bring him down. And the media did their best to do so.
Brought on a lot of hate as he KISSED RACHEL WELCH right there on the screen! Oooo just not right at all.
Tried to be a leader - even though he did not grow up in the Ghetto n part of the Gang life. Tried to bring them together to become leaders in the neighborhoods to make it good not bad.
I just don't get it. He could have gone the route of Bill Cosby n Tiger Woods...just make more money n become powerful.
Sorry he's a Hero of mine. I'm glad at 77 he is made a figure head of our Franchise. For his last days on this earth at least where a LOVE of his was.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Just curious, not calling you out or anything, but who? Ive heard this before, but never seen anything that actually stated it. Like is there some articles somewhere of guys he has helped turn it around?
Jim Brown was hard to bring down By Larry Schwartz Special to ESPN.com
"I'm not interested in trying to work on people's perceptions. I am who I am, and if you don't take the time to learn about that, then your perception is going to be your problem," said Jim Brown on ESPN Classic's SportsCentury series.
In the 1960s, Brown helped form the Negro Industrial Economic Union to assist black-owned businesses. In 1988, he created the Amer-I-Can program, an effort to turn gang members from destructive to productive members of society.
He has been an outspoken critic of the modern African-American athlete for what he perceives as a lack of involvement in the African-American community. "A Charles Barkley, a Magic Johnson, and a Michael Jordan are basically prima donnas," Brown said.
Brown has been inducted into the Halls of Fame of Pro Football, College Football and Lacrosse. No other player has accomplished this triple.
But for all Brown's good deeds and athletic prowess, there appears to be a dark side to him as well. He has been frequently accused of violent crimes, primarily toward women.
An 18-year-old accused Brown of forcing her to have sex after giving her whisky, but a jury found him innocent of assault and battery in the 10-day trial in 1965. He was accused of throwing his girlfriend from a balcony in 1968, but when the 22-year-old woman refused to name Brown as her assailant, the charge of assault with intent to murder was dropped. He was fined $300 for resisting a deputy.
Brown was acquitted of assaulting a man after a traffic accident in 1969. He was fined $500 and spent a day in jail after beating up a golfing partner in 1978. He was charged with rape, sexual battery and assault in 1985, but the charges were dropped when the 33-year-old woman gave inconsistent testimony.
The next year, he was arrested for allegedly beating his fiancée after accusing her of flirting. He spent three hours in jail, but three days later the 21-year-old woman said she didn't want to prosecute.
In October 1999, Brown was convicted in Los Angeles of smashing the window of his 25-year-old wife Monique's car, but was acquitted of making terrorist threats against her. The judge sentenced him to three years' probation, stripped him of his driver's license for a year, fined him $1,700 to be paid to a battered woman's shelter and a domestic abuse fund, and ordered him to attend special counseling for domestic batterers.
When Brown refused counseling, he was given a six-month sentence. He was released from jail in Ventura County (California) in July 2002 after serving less than four months.
Just curious, not calling you out or anything, but who? Ive heard this before, but never seen anything that actually stated it. Like is there some articles somewhere of guys he has helped turn it around?
Jim Brown was hard to bring down By Larry Schwartz Special to ESPN.com
"I'm not interested in trying to work on people's perceptions. I am who I am, and if you don't take the time to learn about that, then your perception is going to be your problem," said Jim Brown on ESPN Classic's SportsCentury series.
In the 1960s, Brown helped form the Negro Industrial Economic Union to assist black-owned businesses. In 1988, he created the Amer-I-Can program, an effort to turn gang members from destructive to productive members of society.
He has been an outspoken critic of the modern African-American athlete for what he perceives as a lack of involvement in the African-American community. "A Charles Barkley, a Magic Johnson, and a Michael Jordan are basically prima donnas," Brown said.
Brown has been inducted into the Halls of Fame of Pro Football, College Football and Lacrosse. No other player has accomplished this triple.
But for all Brown's good deeds and athletic prowess, there appears to be a dark side to him as well. He has been frequently accused of violent crimes, primarily toward women.
An 18-year-old accused Brown of forcing her to have sex after giving her whisky, but a jury found him innocent of assault and battery in the 10-day trial in 1965. He was accused of throwing his girlfriend from a balcony in 1968, but when the 22-year-old woman refused to name Brown as her assailant, the charge of assault with intent to murder was dropped. He was fined $300 for resisting a deputy.
Brown was acquitted of assaulting a man after a traffic accident in 1969. He was fined $500 and spent a day in jail after beating up a golfing partner in 1978. He was charged with rape, sexual battery and assault in 1985, but the charges were dropped when the 33-year-old woman gave inconsistent testimony.
The next year, he was arrested for allegedly beating his fiancée after accusing her of flirting. He spent three hours in jail, but three days later the 21-year-old woman said she didn't want to prosecute.
In October 1999, Brown was convicted in Los Angeles of smashing the window of his 25-year-old wife Monique's car, but was acquitted of making terrorist threats against her. The judge sentenced him to three years' probation, stripped him of his driver's license for a year, fined him $1,700 to be paid to a battered woman's shelter and a domestic abuse fund, and ordered him to attend special counseling for domestic batterers.
When Brown refused counseling, he was given a six-month sentence. He was released from jail in Ventura County (California) in July 2002 after serving less than four months.
He was a GREAT running back and in his personal life, a psycho. If he would have done something like what was mentioned above to one of my sisters? He wouldn't have been a running back anymore.
Brown remains heavily involved in Amer-I-Can, which he founded in 1988 to help disadvantaged youth learn life skills and stay out of trouble. He was also named to the board that will help administer a $42 million fund from the NFL to retired players.
Google it. There is a lot of information about it.
The quote above, which is very relavent to this thread, proves it doesn't belong in Pure Football thread. Now if his new job is to be the new fullback, I will change my mind.
Now that we are aware of what he will actually do for the team, (not a coach, but more of a mentor), I agree with this and the thread has been moved accordingly.
Quote: We need a team full of Jim Browns, you know, winners.
Your definition of the term "winner" clearly differs from my own.
On the field he was a force to be reckoned with. Just having Jim Brown sitting in the stands watching you work would have to have a definite psychological impact on how you approach the game. Especially if you are a running back. You don't have to love him, because he really doesn't care all that much, but for many of us he is the Cleveland Browns until some joker comes along and tops him.
THIS is an awful lot of why old guys like me talk about the "Glory Days".
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
Otto Graham might not agree......it is sad young fans haven't seen a consistent winner......I'm lucky, I remember our NFL championship from 64...smoking the Colt favorites was sweet and dancing in front yard.....sad guys and gals remember Bernie K as the best we've had....he was good, but not in the class of teams in 60s.....Otto and teammates dominated in the late 40s, early 50s, most fans weren't ALIVE....sorry, I'm selfish, want to see our Browns in Super Bowl before I meet the Big Guy......Chud, get it done......GO Browns!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
This is not to diminish Browns talents in any way ... but man, he'd be a fumble waiting to happen if he played today. He left that ball out there for anyone to take a swipe at, and with the way defenses specialize in swatting the ball out these days, he'd have to change his approach drastically. I never really paid much attention to that before, but he really did hang the ball out there.
However, that said, I don't think that anyone has ever doubted Brown's ability on the football field. It was his actions, and comments, off the field that have given many of us pause over the years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: This is not to diminish Browns talents in any way ... but man, he'd be a fumble waiting to happen if he played today. He left that ball out there for anyone to take a swipe at, and with the way defenses specialize in swatting the ball out these days, he'd have to change his approach drastically. I never really paid much attention to that before, but he really did hang the ball out there.
However, that said, I don't think that anyone has ever doubted Brown's ability on the football field. It was his actions, and comments, off the field that have given many of us pause over the years.
I have no doubt he drove Paul Brown insane with some of those changes in direction too. The guy wasn't content with getting just a few yards.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
Quote: Only Hercial Walker and Bo Jackson have come close to his style and skill.
Do, or did, either of them get a front office position with their teams?
I have nothing against Jim Brown (aside from his treatment of women, and I have some deep and severe thoughts about ANY abuse of women).......but just because he was a legend on the field......does that give him a "right" to a job after he left the team?
Who cares........he's back. And the first time he utters something stupid, he should be fired again. It's fairly simple, he got hired to be part of a dog and pony show, and if he doesn't perform, he needs to go.
Back to Brown ...... you know what bugs me more than anything else about Brown? These comments he has made after returning to the team. Did he return because he loves the team? No. Did he return because he respects Haslam, or Banner? No. Why did he return? Because Haslam showed him respect.
Brown is the employee. It would be nice for him to say, even once, that he respects the people he works for. Respect is a one way street for Brown though. He wants others to respect him, but he is largely unwilling to respect others in return.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Yet it's too easy for him to rip the staff and throw blows at the players when he isn't collecting a paycheck. TRich showed way more class, and he is a rookie young kid and Jim Brown is suppose to be an "icon" and face of the Browns in some fashions.
This may come off rude, but I respect Jim as a player. I respect him a lot in that aspect. But, his playing days are over and the Jim Brown that I see in the media and etc, I do not respect much if any at all.
j/c I said a few times on the other board that I thought it was important to have guys like Jim Brown and Bernie Kosar around. They are winners, they have been there and they are truly faces of the franchise. I think that winning breeds winning and having these guys as part of the organization would be a way to show the current players that they understand the Browns' history and want to surround the organization with proven winners. I know, I know..... All of that is in the distant past for many and a past that is foreign to younger fans, but..... I'm sure that having Jim Brown in the building will fuel guys like TRich and Hardesty. I don't know. Maybe I'm way off base and it's the homer in me that thinks these guys could help change the culture. Mr. Haslam, if you are reading this, you must get Bernie in the building. Now, make it so!
Jim Brown was a big part of the team under Mangini. He was an executive, for that matter.
Where did that get us?
Coaches and elite players matter more than legends and inspiration. If you have a legendary, inspirational leader, then he better be on the field producing ala Ray Lewis.
The biggest problem this team has had is zero consistency. That is a far bigger problem than whether or not Jim Brown has a role with the team or not.
Jim Brown had a role with the team in 2009. How much did that help us? Holmgren dumped Brown in 2010. How much did that hurt us?
In the end, legendary players with public relations type roles with the team really don't matter at all to how the team plays on the field. The game isn't anything even resembling the game a guy like Jim Brown played. The money is different, the game itself is different, the year round commitment is different ...... in short, it's all different. A guy like Brown, who retired almost 50 years ago, really has very little in common with today's players.
A move like this is more for the fans than anything else.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: A move like this is more for the fans than anything else.
And to some extent the product that we see on the field. I agree with everything that you said, but, I believe it is about the preservation of history and an inspiration to the new generation. I will not argue Brown's role in the past regime. I simply don't know enough about it. However, I would love to see Brown and others help foster a winning culture with these new "young" Browns. I, as much as you, am tired of watching an uninspired franchise that seems to go through the motions from one year to the next. As a fan, I like the move, even if it is a PR move. The Browns are the only team that I have ever followed. Anything to solidify support is okay by me. If he has a positive impact, so be it. If he doesn't, then respectfully part ways. At any rate, Go Browns!!!!
I agree. The only thing a guy like Jim Brown brings to the team at this point is to keep some level of interest from the older fans who may remember him and will drag their kids and grandkids to photo op sessions with him so they can tell them about the good old days.... and hopefully help them forget that we have been pretty bad for a long time.
Nobody is clamouring for Lynn Swann or Franco Harris to be involved with the Steelers as some kind of executive figure head to feel good about... why is that? Because they haven't been bad for 20 years.
Quote: I agree. The only thing a guy like Jim Brown brings to the team at this point is to keep some level of interest from the older fans who may remember him and will drag their kids and grandkids to photo op sessions with him so they can tell them about the good old days.... and hopefully help them forget that we have been pretty bad for a long time.
Nobody is clamouring for Lynn Swann or Franco Harris to be involved with the Steelers as some kind of executive figure head to feel good about... why is that? Because they haven't been bad for 20 years.
Well lots of folks are talking nice about him and to be perfectly frank, his time here as an executive did absolutely nothing for us so from my perspective, it's no wonder why Holmgren chose to move him out the door.
That's not to say that as a player I think any less of him. He is, after all, the single biggest reason I'm a Browns fan rather than a Steeler fan. (given that I grew up just 36 miles from Pittsburgh, that's pretty amazing)
But his actions with wives and girlfriends don't impress me even a little and if you seriously take a look at the teams he was involved with under Lerner, they didn't impress anyone.
So to me, I hope this hiring is more ceremony and PR than for leadership value. I don't see how it could be more than that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: A guy like Brown, who retired almost 50 years ago, really has very little in common with today's players.
I have to disagree buddy. he can still teach the young guys to stay out of trouble, he can still teach them to save their money for retirement, he can still teach them to help others who never got the same good fortune that they did. He can help IMO
In addition to that, he can teach about player safety too. Let's face it, grabbing and ripping someone to the ground via their facemask was as legit/legal as a someone over 21 buying a beer at the stadium when he carried the football.
There "are" things both morally, physically and so-forth he can instill amongst the younger crowd. But hopefully he motivates people a different route compared to what he did with Trent and the comments he made about Trent that he later admitted he didn't "mean" which is bull IMO. Jim just needs to act his age, and use the knowledge for good instead of stirring up crap/media stunts.
Jim will speak his mind when ever he is asked a question. (I can really relate to that) He spoke from the heart when talking about Trent. He does not have extreme power, he does not have break away speed, he is no Metcalf when it comes to his moves. There is not one single thing about Trent that makes him stand out in a crowd. Jim realized that, and you can not disagree with it so what is the problem?
Reggie Rucker Says Holmgren Set Browns Back “4 or 5 Years”
Former Browns wide receiver Reggie Rucker joined Bull & Fox to talk about Jim Brown returning to the Browns organization , his interaction with Jimmy Haslam and the way he is shaping this organization, trying to understand why fans are split on Jim Brown and his impact to this day with Cleveland, what Jim Brown has done to change the lives of young athletes, getting players to understand the importance of their actions, the falling out between Jim Brown and Mike Holmgren, Holmgren’s failures in Cleveland, the new regime in Berea and more.
Quote: Jim will speak his mind when ever he is asked a question.
Which is exactly why he shouldn't be a mouth-piece for the organization, why he's landed himself in hot water before, why he's embarrassed the organization and himself, and why a very large percentage of the fanbase have turned against him.
And that's exactly what is happening here. Again.
There are points in life where it's time to let things drift into the past. Randy Lerner and Mike Holmgren were pitiful failures, and regardless of the details and intentions of each man, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by allowing the media to keep stirring up the pot for the sake of selling newspapers. Jim Brown should know that, especially if he's going to be a high-paid "advisor" to the owner and a representative of the organization.
Jim Brown is old-school, but old-school yapping in the media doesn't have a positive impact in today's NFL. He's again doing the exact same things that have always landed him in hot water, which is running his yap too often and too loudly.
Jim Brown should say one thing and one thing only about all this: I'm proud to be back with the Cleveland Browns. I'm thankful to Jimmy Haslam for the opportunity he's given me, and am strongly focused on the future of the organization."
He just needs to shut-up about Holmgren.
Then again, shutting-up has never been something Brown could do.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Reggie Rucker Says Holmgren Set Browns Back “4 or 5 Years”
Former Browns wide receiver Reggie Rucker joined Bull & Fox to talk about Jim Brown returning to the Browns organization , his interaction with Jimmy Haslam and the way he is shaping this organization, trying to understand why fans are split on Jim Brown and his impact to this day with Cleveland, what Jim Brown has done to change the lives of young athletes, getting players to understand the importance of their actions, the falling out between Jim Brown and Mike Holmgren, Holmgren’s failures in Cleveland, the new regime in Berea and more.
Lot of stuff that he says are his own personal feelings passed off as fact. He talks about how Holmgren was such a failure, and set the team back 5 years .... and I kind of disagree with that. I think that we are probably better on the personnel side that at any time in the past 10 years.
Also, Rucker complains about how Holmgren made a lot of money that "could have gone into the streets of Cleveland" to help people. That was never going to happen with that money no matter what the Browns did. It's as though he feels that the $48 million that Holmgren made would have gond to some purpose outside of the Browns if Holmgren had never come here. It is a false conclusion. If Holmgren hadn't come here, then the money would have either stayed in Lerner's pocket ...... or paid out to someone else to do that job.
Also, I would expect that Rucker would be a huge supporter of Jim Brown, given that they are close friends.
I still respect what Brown did on the field, and some of the stuff he has done to help kids ..... but I have no respect for the way he has sometimes lived his life, and they way that he treats other people ... as though respect is a one way street in his direction.
All in all, it was kinda what I expected to hear from Rucker. He is a man who is fiercely loyal to his friends, and Brown is a close friend of his.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: All in all, it was kinda what I expected to hear from Rucker. He is a man who is fiercely loyal to his friends, and Brown is a close friend of his.
Yeah, let's just dismiss his comments because of that. There can't possibly be any truth to his comments.
Quote: Jim Brown is old-school, but old-school yapping in the media doesn't have a positive impact in today's NFL. He's again doing the exact same things that have always landed him in hot water, which is running his yap too often and too loudly.
Sorry I still have to disagree. some of us old school guys think there is to much PC crap going on these days and not enough people speaking their minds
GM, when you're feeding the media stories which paint poor pictures of the organization, there isn't anything to be gained by doing that.
The latest quotes from Brown are a perfect example. Are they incendiary in nature? For Jim Brown, those quotes are about as tame and vanilla as it gets. Yet what's the end result of the quotes? We now have Rucker popping off taking shots at Holmgren, and between what he's saying and what Brown is saying all that people are getting is a strong sense of stink regarding what's happened to the organization. What's being gained by this? Absolutely nothing.
I didn't like Holmgren. His resume as an executive was poor, and his execution here was poor. But it's time to leave that in the archives. It's time for Jim Brown to stop beating his cane on the steps and yelling about how he was wronged. He's supposed to now be a beacon of light representing the best of what the organization is. His comments now are about justification and venting. Time to let all that go.
Brown can say whatever he wants in private, but in public, it's now his job to get with the times and be a professional. He's gaining absolutely nothing for himself nor for the organization by continuing to whine about the past.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Sorry I still have to disagree. some of us old school guys think there is to much PC crap going on these days and not enough people speaking their minds
I still have to disagree Toad. He is not saying anything the fans don't already say themselves. I just don't believe in this tip toeing around crap just because everybody is so afraid that somebody else might get their feelings hurt. I miss the days when everybody wasn't so damn thin skinned.
Jim Brown one of my All Time Heroes as a Cleveland Brown, as an athlete in general as an American.
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