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Browns training camp snapshot: RB Trent Richardson sidelined, former President Mike Holmgren visits
By Nate Ulrich Published: August 2, 2013

The Browns held their eighth full-squad practice of training camp today. Below is a glance at what happened.

Storylines: Running back Trent Richardson did not practice today because he was kicked in his right shin Thursday. He missed spring practices with a strained muscle in the same shin. Richardson, though, downplayed the severity of the injury, echoing what coach Rob Chudzinski said by insisting he would have played if the Browns had a game. Richardson said he expects to return to action Monday. Click here for more about Richardson’s latest injury. … Plenty of NFL folks are in Northeast Ohio for this weekend’s Pro Football Hall of Fame festivities in Canton, and many of them attended practice today in Berea. The most surprising visitor, though, was former Browns President Mike Holmgren. “I just came in for the Hall of Fame,” Holmgren said. “Hope to see [Bill] Parcells and [Warren] Sapp and Cris Carter and all of those guys that I coached against all those years. I was driving by the facility, and I thought practice would be over and I was going to sneak in, just going to sneak in and sneak out. I understand they have new offices. My old office, the little cubbyhole I had up there is now fancy. So I came out to say hello to [owner] Jim [Haslam] and [CEO] Joe [Banner] and [General Manager Mike] Lombardi.” Holmgren left the organization during this past season after Haslam essentially replaced him with Banner. Richardson talked to Holmgren. "He gave me a shot," Richardson said. "He picked me with the third pick. They jumped up from one spot. So it’s a lot between me and him. When I see him anytime, it’s nothing but much love 'cause he changed my life, he changed my family’s life and that opportunity, man, I’ve got to give him a lot of praise for that." ... Other notable guests at practice included former Browns defensive tackle Michael Dean Perry, former Browns offensive tackle Roman Oben, NFL Players Association Executive Director DeMaurice Smith and CBS play-by-play announcer Jim Nantz. Referee Ed Hochuli and his crew worked practice. Perry addressed the Browns’ defensive line. “I told them I didn't realize just how quickly it ends, and if I had to do it all over again, I would've taken better care of my body,” Perry said. “Hopefully those guys will listen because really, I could've played another two years. The offseason could've started earlier. I took an elongated offseason. It takes a lot more to get back in shape and that's wear and tear on your body. That's all [I told them], just a nice little tidbit.” … While the Browns conducted punting drills, wide receiver Greg Little worked with the defensive linemen to polish his hand-fighting skills on two separate occasions. Little believes those drills can help him fight off cornerbacks when they apply press coverage. “It was kind of thing I gravitated towards, kind of like during the offseason during OTAs,” Little said. “I just know that it started to help me in training camp when we started to see press coverage and I kept it up. It’s helping my game a lot dealing with press coverage.” … For the second day in a row, nose tackle Phil Taylor had a confrontation with center Alex Mack during pass rush drills. At the end of one drill, Taylor pressed his forearm under Mack’s chin. After the skirmish, defensive line coach Joe Cullen repeatedly yelled, “enough,” at Taylor. On Thursday, Taylor shoved Mack after a drill. When asked about getting chippie with Mack, Taylor said, “It’s just practice, just practice.”

Position battles: For the first time since camp started, quarterback Brian Hoyer took reps with the second-team offense before Jason Campbell took his turn with the second unit. Brandon Weeden continued to take all of the first-team snaps. … Undrafted rookie Josh Aubrey received first-team reps at strong safety with T.J. Ward (hamstring) sidelined. … Jason Pinkston and John Greco worked at right and left guard, respectively, with the first-team offense. Shawn Lauvao, who had been the first-team right guard since the start of camp, worked as a center with the second unit. … Tashaun Gipson (sprained shoulder) participated in team drills on a limited basis, and Johnson Bademosi replaced him for the majority of practice. … Davone Bess caught punts, followed by fellow wide receivers Jordan Norwood, Travis Benjamin, Josh Cooper and Mike Edwards.

Highlights: Kicker Brandon Bogotay received plenty of work with veteran Shayne Graham taking a day off to rest. Bogotay made 3-of-4 field goals to cap two-minute drills. He made attempts of 46, 47 and 51 yards and missed a 41-yard try wide left. … Outside linebacker Barkevious Mingo tipped a pass from Hoyer, and inside linebacker Craig Roberton batted a pass down from Weeden. … In a red-zone team drill, Bademosi dropped a would-be interception from Weeden, and cornerback Chris Owens broke up a pass from Hoyer. … Bess made an impressive catch from Weeden on an out route along the sideline. … Campbell connected with Benjamin for a touchdown on a deep post route. … Weeden connected with Little for a touchdown on an out route. ... Norwood jumped in the back of the end zone to grab a touchdown pass from Hoyer. … Running back Dion Lewis caught a low touchdown pass over the middle from Weeden. … Little made a great fake on a route to turn the defender around, break open and haul in a touchdown pass from Weeden. … In a red-zone, seven-on-seven drill, Weeden and Little connected in the back of the end zone for another touchdown. … Rookie cornerback Leon McFadden slid in the front of the end zone to intercept a pass from Campbell that was intended for Norwood.

Injuries: Richardson (right shin), Ward (hamstring), wide receiver David Nelson (right knee), running back Montario Hardesty (hamstring), cornerback Trevin Wade (unknown), fullback Brock Bolen (calf), tight end Brad Smelley (unknown) and offensive linemen Ryan Miller (concussion), Chris Faulk (knee) and Oniel Cousins (ankle) sat out. ... In a red-zone, seven-on-seven drill, Gipson landed awkwardly after jumping while trying to cover Little, who caught a touchdown pass from Weeden during the play. Gipson exited the drill, but appeared to be fine while jogging later.

Saturday’s schedule: Family Night practice from 6:30-9 p.m. at FirstEnergy Stadium. Gates open at 5:30 p.m. The event is free and open to the public. Chudzinski said the Browns will hold a regular practice, and the players will wear full pads.

http://www.ohio.com

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A smart person knows what to say.

A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Your welcome. Last one.

Browns Camp Notebook: Day 8
By DARYL RUITER, 92.3 The Fan Browns Beat Reporter
August 2, 2013 9:27 PM

BEREA (92.3 The Fan) – Receiver Greg Little is still adjusting to Norv Turner’s new offense as he looks to take a big step this season with his production and in his career.

There’s little question about the amount of work he’s been putting in. Little is often one of the first players on the field and one of the last off of it every day. He spends a significant time running extra routes and taking reps on the jugs machine.

Add working with the defensive line to the mix.

“It was kind of thing I gravitated towards,” Little said. “Kind of like during the offseason during OTAs. I just know that it started to help me in training camp when we started to see press coverage and I kept it up. It’s helping my game a lot dealing with press coverage.”

During Friday’s practice Little jumped in a defensive lineman drill. He hopes that learning proper hand fighting technique working against defensive lineman will help him deal with cornerbacks and get off the line.

“Often times linemen deal with that first initial punch from an offensive linemen,” Little said. “And it’s just knocking the hands down and doing the different moves they do to get the offensive linemen’s hands off them. I just gravitated toward them and kept it working.”

Little is often matched up with Joe Haden during 1 on 1, 7 on 7 or 11 on 11 drills and the techniques have helped him.

“I noticed Joe mentioned that he didn’t really know that I worked with the defensive line,” Little said. “Every time he puts his hands up I am able to anticipate that and that’s due a lot to the work I do with the d-line.”

Duking It Out – It appears that nose tackle Phil Taylor and center Alex Mack aren’t likely to eat together in the cafeteria anytime soon and the two went at it twice during Friday’s practice.

“It’s just practice, just practice,” Taylor said.

Taylor took a swing at Mack and hit Mack’s helmet with his hand following a play during 11 on 11. Then during an offensive-defensive line drill Taylor pushed his forearm into Mack’s neck and kept going after the whistle which angered Mack.

Defensive lineman Brian Sanford has started a pair of scrums in camp already and there’s a sense a major blowup could happen at any moment.

Head coach Rob Chudzinski downplays the scrums and likes the fact that there’s some fight in his team.

“I think that’s kinda the natural course of going against the same guy all the time,” right tackle Mitchell Schwarz said of the fights. “It’s understanding tempos, it’s understanding different things. I think personally you don’t want to do anything that you’re not going to do in a game.

“I’m not going to take a swing at a guy in a game. That will get me ejected, 15 yard penalty. That’s not going to help the team. You gotta defend yourself at some point. You can’t just let guys run down you all day, so it’s kind of a nuance little thing.”

Kick Me – Kicker Shayne Grahm was given the day off by Chudzinski leaving the field goal duties to rookie Brandon Bogotay. He made 3 of 4 field goals to end 2 minute drives which didn’t gain much yardage.

Bogotay hit from 46, 47, 51 but was wide left from 41 yards away.

Saturday night will not be the first chance for Grahm or Bogotay to kick at FirstEnergy Stadium. Special teams coordinator Chris Tabor has taken them to the stadium to kick regularly so they can get acclimated to the unique conditions.

The Gun Show – Referee Ed Hochuli was on hand to help officiate Friday’s practice.

Hochuli is one of the leagues most well known officials because of the tight uniforms that he wears to show off his bulging muscles.

Injuries – Free safety Tashaun Gipson, who sustained a sprained shoulder Sunday following a collision with Gordon, returned to team work but appeared to be injured late in practice while defending a touchdown throw to Greg Little in a 7 on 7 drill.

Running back Trent Richardson (shin), safety T.J. Ward (hamstring) running back Montario Hardesty (hamstring), offensive linemen Ryan Miller (concussion), Chris Faulk (knee) and Oniel Cousins (sprained ankle), cornerback Trevin Wade (undisclosed) and fullback Brock Bolen (calf) did not practice Friday.

Up Next – The Browns will practice Saturday down at FirstEnergy Stadium in full pads as the team hosts it’s annual ‘Family Night’ at 6:30 p.m. Gates open for fans at 5:30. The practice will be followed by a special lazer and fireworks show.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2013/08/02...d.cbslocal.com

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Thank you for posting these everyday, Pdawg. Very convenient.

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j/c

Browns pass rush looks improved with rookie Mingo in mix

There's no fan more loyal than a Browns fan in the NFL. Granted they are frustrated by all the losing and the constant turnover on the coaching staff, but as usual they come to camp in droves excited that this could be the year things get turned around.

I sat down with CEO Joe Banner, head coach Rob Chudzinski, QB Brandon Weeden, LB D'Qwell Jackson, rookie LB Barkevious Mingo, OT Joe Thomas and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who was visitinever attempted a kick of 50 yards or more and only had three touchbacks in 44 kickoffs. Josh Cribbs was a very exciting return man and is supposed to be replaced by Travis Benjamin. Benjamin probably has to replace WR Josh Gordon while he serves a two-game suspension.

4. The pass rushers. Banner said building a pass rush was a top priority in the offseason. They hired Ray Horton to install an aggressive pressure defense, acquired Paul Kruger from division opponent Baltimore, drafted Mingo and stood Sheard up in a two-point stance. I will be disappointed if these three men don't generate more than 20 sacks between them.

5. Josh Gordon out first two weeks. Gordon returned to practice while I was in Cleveland and he is simply a beast on offense. He is developing quickly as a premier receiver and reminds me of Brandon Marshall. He caught 50 passes last year in 16 games and with Turner's offense I expect him to catch 65 passes in 14 games this year. He will be used the same way Turner used Michael Irvin in Dallas. While he's serving his suspension look for speedy Travis Benjamin to get the work load.

6. Pressure defense. Jackson is so excited about a pressure defense after years of "bend don't break" read and react packages. Jackson was quick to point out the Browns only blitzed 14 percent of the time on third downs last year and that number is going way up. He realizes every person on the defense will get their shots to sack the QB and he's working overtime to make sure all the young players know this defense well enough to gain the confidence of defensive coordinator Ray Horton.

7. The work horse. Trent Richardson was labeled a disappointment last year by some observers, which I don't understand when you consider he touched the ball 318 times for 1,317 yards and 12 touchdowns. Turner will use Richardson like he used Emmitt Smith back in his Cowboy days. I expect Richardson to get 300 carries, catch 60 passes and crack the 1,500 total yards mark this season.

8. Rookie report. There are only five rookie draft picks on the roster and they may not make as big an impact as some rookie groups around the league. Mingo will play a lot and be a big success in pass situations. CB Leon McFadden is competing for the starting CB job opposite Joe Haden but could start the season as a backup because Buster Skrine and Chris Owens are having a good camp. S Jamoris Slaughter, DT Armonty Bryant and Garrett Gilkey are all backup candidates and maybe even practice squad for one or two of them.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pat-ki...ie-mingo-in-mix

I think taylor is over rated by a lot of people but just to cut him?


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I wonder who that reporter was, actually.

That's a rather idiotic comment on his/her part.

I think that Taylor will be extremely effective in this defense, collapsing the pocket with pressure from guy like Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo coming from outside. (not to mention the DEs Bryant and Rubin) He could be a 5 sack NT, when QBs try to escape pressure up inside.

I get more and more excited about the potential of this front 7 as we get closer and closer to the season.


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Quote:

If you can, please watch where the RB and TE/H-Back are lining up. I would highly doubt that in a practice open to the public, the coaches will give away much of their systems, but it would be interesting to see if we are going to throw in any read option or pistol offensive setups. Thanks...




The tight ends Cameron and Barnidge both got a lot of snaps with the first team. They were lined up tight on the right in the majority of plays, and frequently sent in motion (more than I would have expected). I saw two plays where Cameron was split wide. Marecic only took one snap with the first team, lined up off the right tackle ran a short hook route but it wasn't thrown his way. Smelley didn't practice.

Dion Lewis took all of the first team snaps at rb, and in two back sets Obie was brought in. It sure looks like he's our pseudo fullback. He had a couple nice catches also.....as did Lewis. Lewis is frickin' tiny.

Twice they ran a play with Gordon, Bess and Little all split wide right. Both times it resulted in good yardage with Little and Bess getting the receptions. Little is a workhorse, he was doing drills with the defensive line when the receivers were given a break.

The offense is way behind the defense. Desmond Bryant and Kruger were making themselves at home in the backfield.

None of the qb's looked particularly sharp. They did have a lot of pressure in there face today. Contrary to the above reports, there was a lot of dinking and dunking in the 11on11s. I've seen enough of that the past few years to last a lifetime. They've got some work to do.

Pinkston took all of the first team snaps at RG. Lauvaou played only second team.

Seems like Mack and Taylor have interpersonal issues. A pretty wicked scrum had to be broken up and they had another little spat.

Hardesty and TRich seemed to be enjoying each other's company on the sideline. TJ Ward had on what looked like a goofy fishing hat.

Gordon didn't look any worse for the wear from that knee tendonitis, and made a few good catches. He wasn't slacking in the drills from what I saw.

I think Travis Benjamin is going to see a lot of the field this year. He played on all 3 strings on offense, and participated in kick returns and punt returns. He had one drop today, but more than made up for it with some great snags, even a few over the middle.

Michael Dean Perry was in the house! He looked rather small standing next to Desmond Bryant. I had a hunch he'd be there because he was on WKNR on the way up. Eric Metcalf also did an interview on the radio, but he wasn't at practice.

I didn't know Holmgren was there until I heard it on the radio on the way home.

My son got autographs from DQ, Weeden, Bess, Greco and Gilkey.


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I like Greg Little more and more as time goes by ...... he really wants to be great, and is doing everything he can to accomplish that.

Cleveland Browns receiver Greg Little joins defensive linemen to practice hand-combat drills | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/08/cleveland_browns_receiver_greg_2.html


BEREA, Ohio – It was a day of unusual sights at Browns training camp Friday.

Former team president Mike Holmgren, who flew from California for the Pro Football Hall of Fame ceremony, made a surprise appearance at the team facility. CBS broadcaster and Mike Lombardi acquaintance Jim Nantz also was in attendance.

Then there was receiver Greg Little joining defensive linemen for drills on two occasions. Little was slapping tackling dummies and using his elbows, hands and shoulders to repel the blocking attempts of assistant coaches. Is the 220-pounder contemplating a position change?

“I kind of mentioned that to their coach earlier about getting in on a third-and-long and seeing where that goes,” Little deadpanned.

In fact, he was practicing his hand-combat technique – drills most often associated with line play – that he’s using against cornerbacks in press coverage. Little wants to prevent defenders from getting their hands into his body and jamming him at the line.

The idea is to create separation by utilize chops and rapid arm motions to redirect a defender's hands.

“Often times linemen deal with that first initial punch from an offensive linemen and it’s just knocking the hands down and doing the different moves they do to get the offensive lineman’s hands off them,” Little said. “I just gravitated toward them and kept it working.”

Nobody recommended the drills to Little. He simply took the initiative during organized team activities in April. On Friday, Little joined the likes of Phil Taylor and Desmond Bryant on an adjoining field while his fellow receivers worked in special teams’ units.

Entering his third season, Little seems focused on maximizing his practice time. He often stays late to catch footballs propelled from the JUGS machine. The receiver said he’s noticed a difference in challenging cornerback Joe Haden since he began the hand-combat exercises.

“Every time he puts his hands up I am able to anticipate that and that’s due a lot to the work I do with the d-line,” he said.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

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I'm not too concerned. Richardson said if there were a game this Sunday he'd be able to play.

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Thanks for all the reports, guys. It's great reading all of these in one place.

--jfanent, you mentioned the dinking and dunking. Were those designed calls or were the QBs dumping the ball off because of the downfield coverage and/or quick pressure?

--I have to say that Little is really impressing me. I keep reading things about him going the extra mile. I admire and respect that. I hope it pays off for him. Hard work should be rewarded. It sounds like he has really matured. Too bad we never hear of Gordon doing these things. You would think after letting his team down w/the suspension and his previous stumbles that he would be the one doing all he could to improve.

--The Big Show just happened to be driving by? LOL...........Oh, and to bad you were rarely in your "little cubby hole." It's amazing how much money that guy stole from the franchise. I even heard that Junior bought him a house in California and he would go back there during the week----during the actual season. I knew he took vacations to Arizona during the season. What a farce that guy was. And we got guys on a crusade to make Banner look bad. It's my guess that Banner won't be taking too many vacations. I bet he'll work his tail off.

--TRich sounds like he received a great education at Alabama. Very articulate. LOL........sorry. I agree w/Rish that it's not bad that he is missing a practice, but he sure does seem to get nicked up a lot.

--I think we have two good lines. Sounds like they are really battling out there. That's pretty exciting to think about. I really don't like Taylor. He gives me bad vibes. Seems like a thug. But, the reporter has to be whacked. Totally whacked. I agree w/YTown that he can maybe get a lot of sacks from the NT position, but I do worry about his discipline in the running game. I think you will see teams attacking him and Reubin w/their running attack. When I first heard they were going to a 3-4, I really thought they would put Taylor at DE. I'm just not sure about his discipline.

--I would read too much into Pinkston starting at RG yesterday and at LG the day before other than that the coaching staff thinks that both Grecco and Lavan Man can play back-up center in case Mack ever goes down. I believe that Grecco will start at LG and Lava at RG.

---I really think there are some things to be excited about this year. I really wish we would have played it differently in last year's draft. Weeden, TRich, and Gordon all have potential, but all three scare me. We could have done so, so much better. Provided TRich can stay healthy and Gordon doesn't get suspended again, our overall talent is pretty decent. If we can get Haden to cover the other team's #1 WR all over the field, we can roll our coverage to the second corners side. I'm thinking that there is enough talent to win w/this group..........other than one thing. The QB. Every time I get excited about this team, the QB situation pops back into my head. And it's not like it is just one position. For example, I have my doubts about our TEs. I have my doubts about our FBs. But man, it's the QB. And we all know just how important that position is to your success. I don't know, maybe you guys are right. Maybe the new coaching staff will magically transform him into a good qb. I do remember the last time I had this debate w/posters, though. When The Big Show replaced Mangini, the majority of posters said that Colt would become a very good QB because he would have Holmgren and Shurmur coaching him, rather than Dumball--as many nicknamed him. We saw how that turned out. I do think it will help being in a system that fits him, but I just don't see the huge transformation that most of you see. I pray that I am wrong and you are right.

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I know he'd play, he played with broken ribs. It isn't the point I was trying to make. He just can't remain injury free for any type of time.

Is a star RB playing at 70% health ANY better than an average RB playing at 100% health? Probably not, probably get more production from the average back than an injured star back.

It's just everytime I flip open the laptop, there an article about Trent and injured it seems. Yes he was stepped on, freak accident he has no control over - but still can we go a week without hearing about him being/getting hurt? We really need to get him into regular season as close to 100%. Seems like the only way to do that is just to hold him from practicing.

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Quote:

I wonder who that reporter was, actually.

That's a rather idiotic comment on his/her part.

I think that Taylor will be extremely effective in this defense, collapsing the pocket with pressure from guy like Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo coming from outside. (not to mention the DEs Bryant and Rubin) He could be a 5 sack NT, when QBs try to escape pressure up inside.

I get more and more excited about the potential of this front 7 as we get closer and closer to the season.




It wreaks of Cabot. I'm waiting for a "sources say" article.


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Hardesty has been nicked up all offseason as well. For how talented our back field is, we have significant injury concerns. I personally think it was stupid to play Trich last season with our quality backups. Tenacity be damned he looked bad out there at times. Busted ribs might have caused some of his hesitation issues.

I get it with qb's and spots lacking depth..but we were 4 deep at rb last season.

I think he'll be healthy this season. I hope doesnt play hurt again if he isn't.

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j/c

It's interesting to me that Aubrey is the backup SS to Ward.

I was hoping that Slaughter could be that guy or that Bademosi would be 2nd team at both safety spots.

Ward, Aubrey, Gipson, Bademosi could make Slaughter the odd man out...or IR him maybe. Perhap's Bademosi's ability to play CB could allow for (5) safeties on the roster. Also interesting that Bademosi's versatility could make a roster spot for another guy.

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Gold star, PDawg! Reading all of them. Thanks for the extra.


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I can agree with Little. Seems that we should give out a big Thank You to Alonzo Mourning. Seems that ever since he had his sit down discussion with Little late last year, the young man has taken some really positive steps. He reduced his dropping passes later in the year, work hard in the off season, and seems to have a whole new approach to his profession this year compared to last.

Maybe Little can introduce Alonzo to Mr Gordon.....Last year Little was on the verge of losing any fan-base that he had due to his antics and Mr Gordon maybe on the verge of losing his livelihood (is he not gone for a year on his next positive test?)

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I hope so!

Norv confident Brandon Weeden will retain the starter job:

Brandon Weeden’s grip on the Browns’ starting quarterback job appears to be tight.

Despite talk when the new regime took over this year that Weeden’s job could be in jeopardy, Weeden has been the No. 1 quarterback in Cleveland throughout the offseason, and offensive coordinator Norv Turner says he sees no reason that would change.

“We’re getting Brandon ready to be the starter,” Turner told the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Turner said backups Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer have to be ready to play if called upon, but Turner does not expect Weeden to lose the starting job.

“I don’t envision that happening because of the way he’s playing, but we’ve got to go play,” Turner said. “That’s a question more for [coach Rob Chudzinski] than for me, but I think everyone in that locker room understands that we’re committed to playing the guys that give us the best chance to win. Until a guy has started and played at a high level and won, there’s always going to be competition.”

As a first-round pick last year, Weeden had an up-and-down rookie season. He’ll need more up than down to keep the starting job, but the Browns are ready to give him every opportunity.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...e-starting-job/

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I don't think there has ever been any doubt that Weeden would start. We have to give him this year to see if he can get it done.

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Not really replying to you but yours was the last post to refer to the RB position ... Its curious to me why nobody seems to have much regard for Brandon Jackson when speaking of the Browns' RB's. I thought he produced well when given the chance last season, and has better skills, all around, than either Hardesty or Ogbonnaya. Lewis, I view as a change-of-pace RB, not a feature RB. But still, Jackson was buried in Shurmur's doghouse last year, rarely activated, and I always wondered why. He has the speed to get the corner, enough size to get yards inside, and catches the ball very well. (I couldn't say whether he blocks well.) But he doesn't get much respect or mention, even at ESPN they don't list him on the RB depth chart.

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Quote:

jfanent, you mentioned the dinking and dunking. Were those designed calls or were the QBs dumping the ball off because of the downfield coverage and/or quick pressure?





It appeared to be designed plays. I spent a lot of time following the wideouts in my camera viewfinder, and it looked like they were decoys....they weren't expecting the ball. One area where Weeden did fairly well is threading the needle on that short stuff. There seemed to be some chemistry there and he knew where the receiver would be. He stood strong in the pocket, but that's pretty easy with a red shirt on.

Campbell reminded me of a bigger, more athletic version of Seneca Wallace. He looks to be in great physical shape. He has some wheels and got away from Mingo a couple times. He also appears to have some accuracy issues.

Hoyer looks like a barely serviceable 3rd string qb.


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Grossi was on the radio the other day, commenting on Campbell's arm. He said Campbell appears to have "lost some miles-per-hour off his fastball" - that he didn't have the same strong arm he had coming out of Auburn. Anybody notice how effective he was on his deep throws?

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Hoyer looks like a barely serviceable 3rd string qb.




Reading stuff like this makes me so nervous that Lombardi even has a voice in the room.

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Not really replying to you but yours was the last post to refer to the RB position ... Its curious to me why nobody seems to have much regard for Brandon Jackson when speaking of the Browns' RB's. I thought he produced well when given the chance last season, and has better skills, all around, than either Hardesty or Ogbonnaya. Lewis, I view as a change-of-pace RB, not a feature RB. But still, Jackson was buried in Shurmur's doghouse last year, rarely activated, and I always wondered why. He has the speed to get the corner, enough size to get yards inside, and catches the ball very well. (I couldn't say whether he blocks well.) But he doesn't get much respect or mention, even at ESPN they don't list him on the RB depth chart.




I've always wondered about this as well.

Best I can tell when you start talking about fringe 2nd string guys to 3rd string guys they are fairly interchangeable. Oby was a Shurmur guy. Jackson wasn't. Might be as simple as that.

Now you have an extremely crowded backfield with a first round pick, a second round pick, and Dion Lewis...a Banner guy.

Maybe Jackson is always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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He was hit and miss. He threw a couple beautiful strikes to Benjamin and Norwood, but he also missed a few and threw a pick. His throws did seem to have plenty of zip on them. He doesn't seem to have the touch Weeden does on the short stuff. Weeden clearly appears to be the best of the 3, and this is significant because he's facing the 1st team D while Cambell is facing the 2's. Then again Weeden gets to throw to Gordon, Little and Bess while Campbell gets Roberson, Norwood and Cooper.


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Thanks JF. I really liked Campbell coming out of college. As a pro, he reminded me of Testaverde ... good size, athletic, strong arm (although not in the same league as Vinny's howitzer), but without Vinny's lack of recognition skills - as evidenced by his TD-Int ratio. But for whatever reason, it never happened for him. Then again, Vinny was a late bloomer too.

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Quote:

Quote:

I wonder who that reporter was, actually.

That's a rather idiotic comment on his/her part.

I think that Taylor will be extremely effective in this defense, collapsing the pocket with pressure from guy like Kruger, Sheard, and Mingo coming from outside. (not to mention the DEs Bryant and Rubin) He could be a 5 sack NT, when QBs try to escape pressure up inside.

I get more and more excited about the potential of this front 7 as we get closer and closer to the season.




It wreaks of Cabot. I'm waiting for a "sources say" article.




I doubt it. She's usually not negative towards individual players.

I could imagine Grossi saying something like that ...... though not necessarily about Taylor. However, he does shoot from the hip frequently.


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Quote:

Quote:

Not really replying to you but yours was the last post to refer to the RB position ... Its curious to me why nobody seems to have much regard for Brandon Jackson when speaking of the Browns' RB's. I thought he produced well when given the chance last season, and has better skills, all around, than either Hardesty or Ogbonnaya. Lewis, I view as a change-of-pace RB, not a feature RB. But still, Jackson was buried in Shurmur's doghouse last year, rarely activated, and I always wondered why. He has the speed to get the corner, enough size to get yards inside, and catches the ball very well. (I couldn't say whether he blocks well.) But he doesn't get much respect or mention, even at ESPN they don't list him on the RB depth chart.




I've always wondered about this as well.

Best I can tell when you start talking about fringe 2nd string guys to 3rd string guys they are fairly interchangeable. Oby was a Shurmur guy. Jackson wasn't. Might be as simple as that.

Now you have an extremely crowded backfield with a first round pick, a second round pick, and Dion Lewis...a Banner guy.

Maybe Jackson is always in the wrong place at the wrong time.




I'm with you guys on this one too. I've never quite understood how B Jax hasn't got many looks...I was shocked he re-signed with us. Maybe he needed a full year to heal?

I'm guessing he is battling it out with Hardesty now for a roster spot? Could we keep (5) RBs? T Rich, Obi, Lewis, Hardesty, B Jax?

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From what I've been reading seeing OGB playing some FB...I could see us keeping an additional RB...that still leaves one man out though for the traditional 3 RBs.


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I think that Jackson could be a solid fit in this offense. He can run catch, and block, and this offense requires that a RB be able to do all 3 capably. Maybe he won't make the team, but he's a solid guy to compete for a spot.


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j/c...

Within the last few days we have had both Starting LG Greco and Starting RG Lava...take some reps with the 2nd team at Center. Wow...I hope this doesn't mean that there is rough waters in talks with Mack for a long term Contract!

JMHO


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Quote:

j/c...

Within the last few days we have had both Starting LG Greco and Starting RG Lava...take some reps with the 2nd team at Center. Wow...I hope this doesn't mean that there is rough waters in talks with Mack for a long term Contract!

JMHO




I hope so too...maybe this is actually a test to see if one of the backup OLs needs to be a C or not? If so, our options get limited a bit...if not, we have more options.

You know way more about the OL than do I, but it could also be the coaches wanting the G's to better understand the C's job? (You did not need me to tell you that.)

We are not hearing much about anyone other than the top 6 OLs from last year.

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I am quite certain that the team just wants to have a plan in place in case of an injury.

Another Pluto article from today's PD:

Terry Pluto's Cleveland Browns Blog: Scribbles from practice: Impressed by Mingo, Norwood, Little, Lewis and Owens | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...t_flyout_sports

After watching the Browns practice on Thursday and Friday, a few things come to mind:

1. These guys throw the ball a lot...and throw it down field often. It's not always pretty. But you can tell that Offensive Coordinator Norv Turner is determined to have an offense that at least delivers the threat of big passing plays. Yes, that is a difference from the last few years.

2. Brandon Weeden has been up and down. The coaches are pushing him to call the plays quicker and pick a target and fire the ball faster. He's in the shotgun most of the time, a clear comfort zone. But it's a learning process.

3. That said, he's learning a process that is better suited for him.

4. Weeden seems to have developed some chemistry with Greg Little, Jordan Norwood and Davone Bess. It's a pleasure to watch Bess, who knows what he's doing.

5. Norwood is on a mission to make this team, and finds ways to get open. His hands are reliable. He knows that Josh Gordon is suspended for the first two games and David Nelson (recovering from knee surgery) is not consistently able to practice. A roster spot is open, and he's making an early claim on it.

6. Barkevious Mingo is remarkably quick, a big-time athlete. He can get into the backfield. Because coaches are so afraid of injuries, very few practices feature all-out hitting. That really won't happen until the preseason games. We'll know more about Mingo at that point, but early returns are very positive.

7. Not sure if it's the sore ("jumpers") knee or a general funk, but Gordon was unimpressive the two days that I watched him. He broke off a few patterns. I do think the knee is sore, but I'd also like to see a little more excitement about his job.

8. I'm working on a column about Greg Little, and he's been the opposite of Gordon. The guy stays after every practice for more work. Like Norwood, he brings a joy to the game -- and yes, he's been catching the ball.

9. I'm not going to make a big deal about Trent Richardson missing a few practices with a bruised shin. My bottom line on Richardson will be this: "Does he play in the games? And how does he play. Does he show quickness and strength?"

10. Tight end is there for Jordan Cameron to claim as his own. The 6-foot-5, 252-pounder made several leaping catches. I also thought backup tight end Gary Barnidge had some nice moments. It still seems like a very thin position with no real established starter.

11. You can tell Quentin Groves has played in Ray Horton's 3-4 defense before. The veteran linebacker has been making excellent plays and really knows what's expected of him.

12. No matter what you hear, John Greco will start at one guard. The other guard will be Shaun Lauvao or Jason Pinkston. Greco is working at center just to provide some depth. But he's a starter, that's why the Browns extended his contract.

13. Several years ago, I spotted Jerome Harrison in camp and became a fan of wanting to see him in games. That was in his rookie season. My new Harrison is Dion Lewis, the pint-sized back imported from Philadelphia. He's very quick and surprisingly strong.

14. Chris Owens has the clear edge at the other cornerback, well ahead of Leon McFadden and Buster Skrine. The coaches do like Skrine covering slot receivers.


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Cleveland Browns safety Johnson Bademosi readies himself for season of significant change


BEREA, Ohio – Johnson Bademosi delivered a crunching hit, an interception and an apology, all within a 10-second span of Wednesday’s practice.

The converted safety saw Brandon Weeden targeting receiver Travis Benjamin near the goal line in a red-zone drill and arrived at the ball in typical Bademosi fashion – full speed, without hesitation. Benjamin might have seen the second-year defender coming. Cornerback Chris Owens certainly did not.

The two defenders collided with Owens crumpling backward like a man who walked into a sliding glass door he didn’t realize was closed. The ball popped into the air and Bademosi grabbed it.

“(Owens) was like, ‘Why did you hit me, Bad?” Bademosi said. “I told him, ‘My fault, I was just playing fast.’”

Browns fans saw lots of thumping from the undrafted free agent a year ago on punt and kickoff coverages. ProFootballFocus.com ranked Bademosi among the NFL’s top-15 special teams cover men in his rookie season.

The new coaching staff is increasing Bademosi’s responsibilities and changing his position this season. They have shifted the Stanford product from cornerback to safety and have ticketed him as a potential kick returner.

Bademosi is on a serious learning curve – he’s never played safety at any level -- yet he welcomes the opportunity to broaden his value to the Browns.

“I’m not where I need to be, but I’m working toward it,” he said. “There’s a lot of things that are hard but that’s never a reason not to do them. This game is hard, life is hard. You have to come out every day and own it.”

It’s that attitude and approach which make Bademosi popular with teammates. Cornerback Joe Haden defines it as a “go hard mentality.”

The 23-year-old likely will reprise his role as a cover man on both special teams’ units and possibly inherit the kick-return duties from Pro Bowler Josh Cribbs, who signed with the Oakland Raiders. Bademosi, who hasn’t fielded kicks since high school, and Buster Skrine are getting lots of training-camp reps.

“I feel like I have good vision and long speed and I can make people miss,” he said.

The big question is whether Bademosi can evolve into something more than a special-teams dynamo. He was notified of his position change in April, a switch he did not anticipate. The 6-foot, 200-pounder sought the counsel of his college coaches and even coaches from the Browns' past regime.

Free safety comes with pre-snap responsibilities of identifying formations and motion and communicating them to teammates. It’s also about taking different angles and making snap decisions as the last line of defense.
There’s a lot of things that are hard but that’s never a reason not to do them. This game is hard, life is hard.

The club is alarmingly inexperienced at the position. The presumptive starter, Tashaun Gipson, who’s nursing a shoulder injury, is a veteran of 377 NFL snaps. The Browns drafted Jamoris Slaughter in the sixth round, but he remains limited in returning from an Achilles tear.

In a pre-training camp interview, defensive coordinator Ray Horton mentioned Bademosi as a candidate to play nickel back. He was guarded in his assessment of the youngster’s conversion to safety.

“He’s one of those players that I’m talking about (who might have) position flexibility,” Horton said. “Can he do multiple things? He’s making good progress, not great progress, good progress of assimilating calls, responsibilities.”

What the Browns don’t doubt is Bademosi’s willingness to learn and his desire to improve. A year ago, former Browns cornerback Sheldon Brown called him the “hardest-working rookie I have ever been around.”

“He is a really, really, really smart kid and he’s puts all of his effort into this game,” Haden said. “That’s one thing you never have to worry about – getting effort from Bad.”

He’s made some plays during the first seven days of camp, intercepting a few passes and getting his hands on others. But playing free safety in a blitzing defense will lead to some challenging moments and uncomfortable Monday morning film sessions.

Bademosi, who made the jump from rugby phenom to football player, believes he’s strong enough mentally to handle hard times.

“With new experiences come ups and downs,” he said. “That’s just how the game goes. It’s how you deal with it that matters.”

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/08/cleveland_browns_safety_johnso.html


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Thanks. Appreciate the insight.

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I love the Bademosi story and hope he continues to stick and get better.

One thing in that article that scares me....I don't think I want any of our DBs returning kicks or punts.

We are so not-deep at CB and S...and so deep at WR and RB - comparatively anyway. I'd rather we get a WR & RB to handle those duties.

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I think Pluto's comments are fairly legit. Most of his points seem to be very realistic.

I wonder why more people aren't praising Little [although he is getting some love] and more specifically, not bashing Gordon?

Gordon should be the one trying to prove something. Can't believe he is getting a free pass from most of you. Let me ask you a question: Is it because you just hate to admit that Heckert ever made a bad move?

Heck, there were hundreds of pages of hate towards K2 when he wrecked a motorcycle. Gordon did drugs. He isn't practicing hard. He's posted a picture of himself w/a pill bottle and a marijuana pipe and a video of him and Little getting drunk.........after he was freaking suspended. Seriously guys, what gives?

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I love the attitude and commitment Little is showing. I think that I have posted a few articles about him.

I wasn't crazy about the pick when we drafted him, but he is working on proving me wrong. He has definitely turned it on towards becoming a real pro through and through, and has that drive to be the best that always seems to precede actually becoming one of the best. I love the fact that he works with the DL to improve his hand technique so he can get off the line more effectively. What other WR does that? I love that he is staying after practice damn near every day to work on his craft. (and coming in early, from reports) My hope is that some of this will eventually rub off on Gordon, and that he will follow Little's example and become a true pro as well. Right now I am extremely worried about Gordon's future with this team, and in the NFL.


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Cleveland Browns center Alex Mack, a potential free agent next year, says 'I'm really happy here'

By Tom Reed, The Plain Dealer

on August 03, 2013 at 6:24 PM, updated August 03, 2013 at 6:47 PM

Berea, Ohio – Alex Mack arrived in Cleveland four years ago to a mixed reception, one which had nothing to do with his ability or potential.

Some Browns fans and observers were irked by then-coach Eric Mangini’s decision to trade down twice from the No. 5 spot before grabbing a center with the No. 21 selection. The move to stockpile picks enabled the New York Jets to take Mark Sanchez and Tampa Bay to snatch Josh Freeman.

Passing on two quarterbacks to draft a center has the sex appeal of old-man socks and sandals on the beach.

“I thought it was a great pick,” Mack said, laughing at the memory. “I was really happy. I don’t know what anyone was talking about.”

Four years later, the Browns’ thinking looks fairly sound. The California-Berkeley product has played every offensive down. He made the Pro Bowl in 2010 and was an alternate a year ago. Along with mainstay left tackle Joe Thomas, he anchors an offensive line which is considered one of the team’s few strengths. Mack is also a potential free agent at season’s end.

The 6-4, 311-pounder said Saturday the team has not yet approached him about a contract extension, but that he hopes to remain part of the organization.

“I’m really happy here,” Mack said. “I’ve had great success with (offensive line coach George Warhop) and being with Joe Thomas and this offensive line is what I want. I think I’m a good player and that’s really what my goal was to be.

“At this point in camp, I’m here to work on football stuff. All of that stuff is going to be handled by agents and upstairs people. My goal is to not let that distract me.”

It’s hard to imagine the Browns not extending Mack, 27, who’s entering his prime years. While he was flagged nine times last season, he had another solid campaign, rating among the top-10 centers by Pro Football Focus.com. He also drew praise from perennial Pro Bowl nose tackle Haloti Ngata, of Baltimore, who labeled Mack one of his toughest opponents.

Right tackle Mitchell Schwartz said the fifth-year veteran provides a good role model.

“He’s bringing it every day,” said Schwartz, 24. “At practice, he’s the first guy running the drill, the first guy out there, never takes a play off. It also ties into the stuff he does on the field. We put a lot on him. He’s not just looking at the four guys in front of him, he’s seeing the whole defense. His preparation and hard work allows him to see everything.”

Mack’s tenacity has been on display in recent days as he’s sparred with nose tackle Phil Taylor. They had dust-ups in consecutive practices.

“It’s camp, people are trying hard all the time,” Mack said smiling. “Things get chippy sometimes.”

The offensive line supplies continuity in an organization that lacks it on many levels. Mack appreciates the team’s decision to retain Warhop, who was hired the year the Browns drafted him.

The linemen offered quarterback Brandon Weeden good protection last season. If they can improve in the run game – a healthy Trent Richardson should help – the Browns could evolve into one of the league’s better offensive fronts.

“We have a lot of potential,” Mack said. “We’ve been together and we’ve had the same line coach for a while now. There’s so much teamwork involved and when you’ve been around the people and know the system it’s only going to make you better.”

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/08/cleveland_browns_center_alex_m_6.html


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Browns Camp Notebook: Day 9
By DARYL RUITER, 92.3 The Fan Browns Beat Reporter

Head coach Rob Chudzinski plans to work running back Trent Richardson back into practice starting on Monday.

Richardson sat out Saturday night’s ‘Family Night” practice at First Energy Stadium and the team has the day off Sunday.

Richardson was kicked in the right shin – the same one he strained a muscle in toward the end of OTA’s which sidelined him through the June minicamp – on Thursday.

Chudzinski hasn’t decided if Richardson will play in the preseason opener against the St. Louis Rams.

“I have not,” Chudzinski said. “We’re going to work him back into practice on Monday and we’ll go from there.”

Little Hero – 5-year old Ryan Encinias 5 of Cuyahoga Falls scored a 50-yard touchdown to end Saturday night’s practice at First Energy Stadium.

“That was cool,” quarterback Brandon Weeden said. “When Chud told us we were going to do that in team meetings, I was pumped about it. That was a cool deal. The kid is five years old and he’s been through a lot. I do a lot of stuff back home with Children’s Hospital, so every time something like that happens, it brings a lump to your throat.”

Coach Chudzinski’s son, Kaelan came up with the idea to have Ryan suit up and score.

At 2-years old, Ryan and his family visited the doctor after treating him for what they thought was a cold when he was diagnosed with a tumor on his left lung. For the next 6 weeks, Ryan stayed at the hospital, where he received a breathing tube, chemotherapy and radiation.

“This is one of the highest highs we’ve had during this entire ordeal,” Robert Encinias, Ryan’s father, said. “To see him out there running with the Cleveland Browns is one of the greatest experiences of our lives.”

Ryan has been 2-years in remission and will celebrate his 6th birthday in October. The entire team led by Craig Robertson and Trent Richardson helped escort him to the west end zone.

“It just means a lot,” linebacker Barkevious Mingo said. “He couldn’t do the things he wanted to do growing up, but to have this moment in front of these fans in this stadium, I’m getting chills right now. I’m sure it meant a lot to that little kid.”

Kick Off – Brandon Bogotay and Shayne Grahm went at it in another round of dueling kickers to start Saturday night’s session.

“We’ve been trying to put them in situations like that in practice and then being able to do that in the stadium, the dueling kicks theme we’ve had every other day in some form or fashion,” Chudzinski said. “We’re trying to put them in those situations to put that pressure on them. Obviously coming down here to the stadium in front of the fans was a good opportunity for them as well.”

Bogatay, who kicked towards the west uprights, went a perfect 6-6 – including a 53-yard try while Grahm, who kicked towards the dawg pound, went 5-6 – missing short and wide left from 53.

Chudzinski isn’t sure how he’ll divide the kicks in the preseason but hopes to have that ironed out by Monday.

“You want to make sure they get enough kicks,” Chudzinski said. “That’s the key. Sometimes you either lay out a plan in terms of one guy one quarter or a half. You have to be careful because the opportunities don’t come up. We’ll lay out a plan to make sure they get the opportunities. It might be one game, it might be so many kicks in a game and carries over into the next game, but we’ll make sure they get the opportunities.”

Roster Move – The Browns re-signed offensive lineman Dominic Alford and waived linebacker Adrian Moten.

Alford, a 6-3, 320-pound offensive lineman, was originally signed by the Browns as an undrafted free agent in 2011 and spent the entire season on the practice squad. Alford spent the final 4 weeks of the 2012 season on the Carolina Panthers’ practice squad.

Alford was with Browns during the 2013 offseason after signing with the team on Feb. 6 before being waived on July 24.

Injuries – Running back Trent Richardson (shin), receiver David Nelson, safety T.J. Ward (hamstring) running back Montario Hardesty (hamstring), offensive linemen Ryan Miller (concussion), Chris Faulk (knee) and Oniel Cousins (sprained ankle), cornerback Trevin Wade (general tightness) and fullbacks Brock Bolen (calf) and Brad Smelley (undisclosed) did not practice Saturday.

Up Next – The Browns will not practice Sunday. They return to the field Monday at 4 p.m. in Berea.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com


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Browns give 5-year-old boy the memory of a lifetime in front of 24,131 fans
Aug 03, 2013 -- 10:05pm

By Tony Grossi

Observations, notes, quotes and some facts on Day 9 of Browns training camp …

* An announced crowd of 24,131 showed up for the annual Family Night practice – the first real football event in newly renamed FirstEnergy Stadium of the new Browns’ regime.

The Browns executed a lot of team drills, including a new installation with the offense backed up to the end zone, and the kickers took turns on a summer night belting kickoffs into the end zones.

But the real highlight came at the end when the Browns gave a 5-year-old recovering cancer patient the chance to score a touchdown.

After all the drills were over, a video told the story of Ryan Encinas of Cuyahoga Falls, who was diagnosed with lung cancer at age 2. He spent six weeks in a hospital undergoing chemotherapy and radiation treatments. Encinas celebrated two years in remission on Friday. He visited Browns camp that day. Through the Littlest Heroes program, which supports families with young cancer patients, the Browns arranged to give Encinas the thrill of a lifetime.

Encinas ran onto the field in full Browns uniform with the first-team offense. He was handed the ball by Brandon Weeden and was guided through a 50-yard touchdown run. The idea was hatched by coach Rob Chudzinski’s son, Kaelen, who saw Nebraska do something similar at its spring game.

“When Chud told us we were going to do that in team meetings, I was pumped about it,” Weeden said. “That was a cool deal. The kid is five years old and he's been through a lot.”

Rookie linebacker Barkevious Mingo said, “He couldn’t do the things he wanted to do growing up, but to have this moment in front of these fans in this stadium, I’m getting chills right now. I’m sure it meant a lot to that little kid.

In an upset, referee Ed Hochuli, officiating on the play, did not throw a flag for too many men on the field.

* A source during the practice said that running back Trent Richardson, who sat out his second practice in a row after a kick in the right shin, will be held out for the exhibition home opener against the St. Louis Rams on Thursday night.

Afterwards, Chudzinski said that a decision has not been made.

“We’re going to work him back into practice on Monday and go from there,” he said.

The source said that the plan is to gear up Richardson for the second game against Detroit Aug. 15, which also is at home.

* The Browns were pleased with the turnout of 24,131 to the free practice. A fireworks and laser show concluded the evening. The Browns said attendance at Family Night last year was 19,412 and 12,354 in 2011.

Earlier in the week, offensive tackle Joe Thomas disclosed his career dream is to have a home playoff game in Cleveland before his career is over.

"Oh, man, this place would be electric,” Weeden said. “I would not want to come here as a visitor. I was talking to (Cleveland native Brian) Hoyer about it the other day. I said, man, if we can win some games this place right here will be one of the most electric atmospheres in the league. The Dawg Pound and everybody else, it's great to begin with, and if we win some games the roof will blow off this thing."

* Most of the fan “enhancements” won’t be in effect until the Thursday exhibition opener, but President Alec Scheiner was pleased with one thing on Saturday.

“Cell service is working. I can retire now," Scheiner joked.

* With a new security company in place, there are going to be glitches early on. Owner Jimmy Haslam was stopped from entering the field because he was not wearing the proper wrist band credential. “I don’t need one,” Haslam said.

* Weeden threw the ball well in individual and team drills. Receiver Josh Gordon was not at his best, however, dropping three balls and being the intended receiver on an interception by Joe Haden. There were a few boos after the third drop. Gordon had two receptions before the end of the night.

* The defense seemed energized by the crowd and vice versa. Haden’s interception revved up the fans. Later, D’Qwell Jackson had a virtual sack of Weeden on one coordinator Ray Horton’s famed cross blitzes inside.

“We had the fans on our side this practice and it just energized the team,” said Mingo. “We played faster, we had fun out here. We had fun showing it in front of the fans.”

Chudzinski said, “Defenses typically are ahead of offenses this time of year. We haven’t gotten to the point where the offense is clicking, but it will come.”

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=20631


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