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12 total tds and 11 on the ground...that's production we haven't seen in a long long long time at the RB spot
Well that's kind of my point King.. if a guy has heart, he can play injured and be productive.
That's why durability, as it relates to a car or truck or drill, is pretty much meaningless.. It's not that I don't understand the word durability at all.
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If Hardesty is on the bubble, then I at least hope he gets healthy enough to finish training camp with some time on the field. It would be good to see him make it until the final cut down with the hopes that another team ends up needing an RB and is willing to offer a little something for him. Hate to see him go though, he was a bright spot in a dismal year last year.
I agree Cal. I know that I don't like to see any player cut because he was injured and couldn't lay it on the line.
I think Hardesty or Jackson makes the team, the other cut.
TR, Obie, and Lewis are locks barring a injury or punching a coach in the face, so it boils down to how many backs the team wants to keep. Four for sure, maybe 5, but if we go 5 I would almost think one would have to be one of the traditional fullbacks and not just Obie who I still consider more of a hybred type back.
It could be that Smelly who is playing more at TE would be kept, knowing they could swing him to FB if needed.
At this point, I think Jackson makes the team as he seems to be more reliable from a health standpoint, and frankly has more of a NFL resume then does Hardesty. I'd have no real problem with Jackson headed in to a game or two as the fill-in starter. He did a pretty decent job with GB the year before we signed him. He gained a little over 700 on the ground and caught over 40 passes.
Those are good numbers for a guy you have as a bench/back-up player. A coach can work with that.
I like them both, and if Jackson is on the field and Hardesty isn't, Jackson earns the spot. But though I hate to mention it, it's still early and Hardesty is just an injury away from locking the spot.   It is great to have options. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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12 total tds and 11 on the ground...that's production we haven't seen in a long long long time at the RB spot
yea since 2010.
Whoops,, forgot about Mr. Wacki 
Ya know, I really liked Hillis.. sure wish he'd have kept his head together.
I don't believe TRich is anything like him..
#GMSTRONG
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fair enough Joshferencz.... but i disagree that suppoorting casts, coaching and defense do not effect the end results of any one player.
This is a team sport and to assume there is no cause effect relationship between that one player and the other 50 and coaches does not hold water imo.
His YPC is low and that is disappointing but i read so many posts here about where he was picked, how he was picked ( trading picks etc) that support his " disappointment" i do not buy into that either.... I do not care where he was picked , 5th, 50th or 500th nor do I care what some other player did stat-wise. Maybe his QB was better maybe the offense clicked so they couldnt stack the box or key on one component... surely that has an effect on the end result?
As far as what a rival did or didn't do I do not concern myself with them, they do what they need to do,... who gives a rats.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I was not responding to you.
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j/c
well from what I saw with trent he always had at least 1 and for the most part 2 defenders shadow him. thus no holes to go through.
hardesty did not. so the holes were there.
jmo from what I saw.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c
First. The way I look at the 'disappointing' argument is this. I was disappointed he got injured. Not at him but at fate. I was disappointed in the injury not the player. It wasn't a motorcycle accident, or any other injury related to shenanigans. He got injured playing football. Bummer, but why be disappointed in him for it?
Second. Comparing him to any other player, on any other team, is absurd. Did those players play the Superbowl Champ Rats D twice, the Stillers D twice, and even the Bengals up and coming D twice?
Yes there are certain RB benchmarks that mark a great from good season. TR missed a few of those marks. I'm disappointed more in the poor guard play and complete lack of a lead blocker. Add anemic, ineffective play calling, it's amazing he put up the numbers he did.
This I do know, TR the player is the least of my concerns going into the season. My hope is he stays healthy. If he doesn't its not his fault. I may be disappointed, but it'll not be focused on TR. If he stays healthy and puts up poor numbers I'll be open to discussion about being disappointed in him then.
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12 total tds and 11 on the ground...that's production we haven't seen in a long long long time at the RB spot
yea since 2010.
And we all thought we had an absolute beast of a RB for the next 5 years the last time we saw that...yet some see disappointment in the next guy who did it.
FWIW, I don't care that others saw disappointment...I didn't...they did...it's ok.
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j/c
First. The way I look at the 'disappointing' argument is this. I was disappointed he got injured. Not at him but at fate. I was disappointed in the injury not the player. It wasn't a motorcycle accident, or any other injury related to shenanigans. He got injured playing football. Bummer, but why be disappointed in him for it?
Second. Comparing him to any other player, on any other team, is absurd. Did those players play the Superbowl Champ Rats D twice, the Stillers D twice, and even the Bengals up and coming D twice?
Yes there are certain RB benchmarks that mark a great from good season. TR missed a few of those marks. I'm disappointed more in the poor guard play and complete lack of a lead blocker. Add anemic, ineffective play calling, it's amazing he put up the numbers he did.
This I do know, TR the player is the least of my concerns going into the season. My hope is he stays healthy. If he doesn't its not his fault. I may be disappointed, but it'll not be focused on TR. If he stays healthy and puts up poor numbers I'll be open to discussion about being disappointed in him then.
Stop making so much sense...you are messing up the vibe. 
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Excellent point. Being disappointed in Richardson because of an injury is an attribution error. Although, one could always deny he was actually injured.... 
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i get disappointed when a player cannot remain healthy. no, its not his fault he got injured, he certainly didnt ask to, but when you move up to take a player 3rd overall, i get disappointed when that player is unable to showcase their skills, because they are constantly injured.
but i feel like im beating a dead horse here. I think this is a misinterpretation of what some of us mean by disappointment. Im not disappointed in his skill, im disappointed in his ability to utilize that skill, because he is proving to be injury prone. just as hardesty has disappointed me due to injuries. i cant help but be disappointed when a player does not perform how i had anticipated they would, be it because of injury, attitude, off the field issues, or simply not adjusting to the NFL.
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Excellent point. Being disappointed in Richardson because of an injury is an attribution error. Although, one could always deny he was actually injured....
Please oh please,, don't go there
#GMSTRONG
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It just seems the tone of some posters, maybe not you, is focusing on TR on a more personal level. As though he has been injured as a way of personally spiting the poster(s). Or just flat lying and making it up.  I think that's why the backlash is occurring.
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It just seems the tone of some posters, maybe not you, is focusing on TR on a more personal level. As though he has been injured as a way of personally spiting the poster(s). Or just flat lying and making it up.
I think that's why the backlash is occurring.
that kinda happens a lot. A player breaks his leg and suddenly he's a bust. A bit of misplaced anger. What I look at is what a guy does while hurt. If he can play and produce.. he's ok in my book
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Again? I think you think too much. I think you look for reasons to criticize people. I think you are delusional if you don't see that people takes sides in arguments around here.
You really never noticed the sides when there were debates on Weeden and McCoy?
You really never noticed the sides on the various regimes?
There are ALWAYS sides in our debates. Then, there are guys like you who come around simply to critique another poster.
Just a question here........
How can you debate an issue of you don't have a side to debate?
I guess maybe you feel people should be followers and not have and stick to an opposing viewpoint?
Of course there are two sides to every issue and people are on opposing sides. But that's really no different than anywhere else so I really don't see a point being made here in any form.
I do think you take the entire "regime thing" to extremes though. IMO, they're gone, they weren't successful, end of story. Time to move on. You however seem to try to lump anyone who questions the new regime as an indication they loved the old regime.
So far, you're the only one who I've seen try to paint that side as legit.
As far as critique? I seem to recall someone just a few days ago explaining how we should be questioning points other posters made. Or doesn't that qualify?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm on your side Pit
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hey,, one thing that bothers me a little, why do I keep hearing from posters that Hardesty is on the bubble? Did I miss the briefing by the Browns? 
There was actually an article posted somewhere on the board with an interview of our RB's coach that gave some indication that he very well may be on the bubble. It included an interview with Hardesty where he addressed the issue as well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hey,, one thing that bothers me a little, why do I keep hearing from posters that Hardesty is on the bubble? Did I miss the briefing by the Browns?
There was actually an article posted somewhere on the board with an interview of our RB's coach that gave some indication that he very well may be on the bubble. It included an interview with Hardesty where he addressed the issue as well.
Some article, onthe board, with our RB coach, that gave the inciation he "May Be" on the bubble and an interview with Hardesty addressing it?
That's it?
I mean, unless Hardesty said, I'm on the Bubble, then I don't get it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
First. The way I look at the 'disappointing' argument is this. I was disappointed he got injured. Not at him but at fate. I was disappointed in the injury not the player. It wasn't a motorcycle accident, or any other injury related to shenanigans. He got injured playing football. Bummer, but why be disappointed in him for it?
Second. Comparing him to any other player, on any other team, is absurd. Did those players play the Superbowl Champ Rats D twice, the Stillers D twice, and even the Bengals up and coming D twice?
Yes there are certain RB benchmarks that mark a great from good season. TR missed a few of those marks. I'm disappointed more in the poor guard play and complete lack of a lead blocker. Add anemic, ineffective play calling, it's amazing he put up the numbers he did.
This I do know, TR the player is the least of my concerns going into the season. My hope is he stays healthy. If he doesn't its not his fault. I may be disappointed, but it'll not be focused on TR. If he stays healthy and puts up poor numbers I'll be open to discussion about being disappointed in him then.
Stop making so much sense...you are messing up the vibe.
beat me to it, WSU....
guess I gotta get my 'quicks' back... it's been a long summer-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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From his responses, he seemed to indicate he felt he may very well may be on the bubble. Does that mean it's written in stone? Nah... But I never recall coaches coming right out and stating that a player is on the bubble. So it is a distinct possibility. And let's face it, people are debating whether TRich even had broken ribs or not! So at least we have something in print that may hold some merit and I think that's a huge step up from the "I wonder if TRich really had broken ribs" debate.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Just because he was banged up last year and the coaches are being cautious in TC isn't reason to call him injury prone JUST yet. After all, near as I can tell, he never missed a game in college.
People need to chill a little. Its preseason.
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If there is misinterpretation happening, it's your fault for not choosing your words carefully. Here is an expression of legitimate disappointment -- Quote:
i get disappointed when a player cannot remain healthy. no, its not his fault he got injured, he certainly didnt ask to, but when you move up to take a player 3rd overall, i get disappointed when that player is unable to showcase their skills, because they are constantly injured.
This is reasonable because you are disappointed with a situation in which a player is drafted high with big expectations and those expectations cannot be fulfilled. Perfectly fine.
But then you write something like this --
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im disappointed in his ability to utilize that skill, because he is proving to be injury prone. just as hardesty has disappointed me due to injuries.
Back to the personal responsibility language here. Hardesty shouldn't be disappointing you; the situation of Hardesty being injured is disappointing. This is not pointless semantics.
And then --
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i cant help but be disappointed when a player does not perform how i had anticipated they would, be it because of injury, attitude, off the field issues, or simply not adjusting to the NFL.
Four reasons for poor performance. Personal responsibility can legitimately be attributed to a player for three of these. Injury doesn't fit here. Can you now see the confusion?
This dead horse is getting mushy.
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I sure didn't say TRich is a bust. I didn't even say Weeden is a bust, yet, as bad as he was last year.
I just said a bunch of pundits said he was the best prospect since Petersen.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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From his responses, he seemed to indicate he felt he may very well may be on the bubble.
Does that mean it's written in stone? Nah...
But I never recall coaches coming right out and stating that a player is on the bubble. So it is a distinct possibility.
And let's face it, people are debating whether TRich even had broken ribs or not!
So at least we have something in print that may hold some merit and I think that's a huge step up from the "I wonder if TRich really had broken ribs" debate.
Well, I think you are nuts, but, I'm still on your side
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It just seems the tone of some posters, maybe not you, is focusing on TR on a more personal level. As though he has been injured as a way of personally spiting the poster(s). Or just flat lying and making it up.
I think that's why the backlash is occurring.
Oh, Good God! What a ridiculous spin. That was far from my intent.
You guys can pile on all you want. However, I was not happy w/the 3.6 yds. per carry. I was not happy w/his lack of instincts. I was not happy w/his lack of decisiveness. And you can twist words around all you want, but that is how I feel.
He was the third overall pick. We traded up to get him. I expected more. Period.
Now, I am not closing the book on him and there is nothing personal about it. I hope he improves. Sue me.
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That argument is fine to make and I would guess that many would agree with certain aspects of it.
Just cut out the juvenile cliques/camps stuff. They don't exist.
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Just a question here........
How can you debate an issue of you don't have a side to debate?
I guess maybe you feel people should be followers and not have and stick to an opposing viewpoint?
Of course there are two sides to every issue and people are on opposing sides. But that's really no different than anywhere else so I really don't see a point being made here in any form.
I do think you take the entire "regime thing" to extremes though.
I wasn't talking about the stinking regime. Sheesh. It's like you guys look for fights.
My point is that once many posters make up their minds about a topic and refuse to change their minds no matter what. I can't believe you haven't noticed that.
I've tried and tried to explain my position on TRich. I said I was disappointed in his rookie year. I gave valid reasons why. I never said he sucked. I never said he can't improve. And I NEVER asked anyone to agree w/me.
I have never rolled that way, Pit..........and you darn well know it. I remember back to the days where there were only a few of us who thought Timid sucked. It was brutal. Mob mentality. I received many threatening PMs, including one from Leslie Dawg [remember him?] that said they were going to cut off one of my body parts and shove it down my throat.
If y'all think your childish bullying techniques will stop me from speaking my mind, you are mistaken and you of all people should know that.
And for the record.................it does not upset me in the slightest if other posters are not disappointed in TRich's play. Again, I NEVER asked anyone to agree w/me. I have a right to state my opinion w/out all the multiple posts that question my character. Grow the hell up!
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The camps/cliques things are completely separate. There are ALWAYS camps. It depends on which side of the argument you are on. I have changed my tune on things when a poster presents something that legitimately refutes my previous opinion.
I will admit it bugs me that more people aren't willing to do that. It's like they have to "look" right, rather than be right.
The clique thing is separate. You say there aren't cliques on here. Fine, don't believe it. I see it differently. But, in reality, it's not that big of a deal.
I just really want to talk football, but it always becomes more about the poster than the football. I have pleaded w/you guys to answer some football questions. Pleaded. For example, I begged you all to discuss how we might move our guys around when we run various fronts on our defensive LOS. Who will play where in the 3-4? 4-3? 5-2? Two guys responded. The rest of you ignore it. But, you are all pretty damn quick to demean me for having an opinion. And you seem to know what I am thinking more than I do. Please!
Maybe y'all should try and talk a bit more football and quit worrying about personalities so much. Of course, you won't take that for what it is worth and instead will probably be offended.
And the wheel goes 'round and 'round.
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Maybe y'all should try and talk a bit more football and quit worrying about personalities so much. Of course, you won't take that for what it is worth and instead will probably be offended.
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It just seems the tone of some posters, maybe not you, is focusing on TR on a more personal level. As though he has been injured as a way of personally spiting the poster(s). Or just flat lying and making it up.
I think that's why the backlash is occurring.
Oh, Good God! What a ridiculous spin. That was far from my intent.
You guys can pile on all you want. However, I was not happy w/the 3.6 yds. per carry. I was not happy w/his lack of instincts. I was not happy w/his lack of decisiveness. And you can twist words around all you want, but that is how I feel.
He was the third overall pick. We traded up to get him. I expected more. Period.
Now, I am not closing the book on him and there is nothing personal about it. I hope he improves. Sue me.
I never once mentioned you directly in that post. Or any other post for that matter. Honestly I didnt look back to see who said what. I just read as everyone posts. If you felt it was geared to you maybe you should look at why you might feel that way. Guilty conscious?
But whatever. I don't get into these types of peeing matches and I don't intend to start. It was just an opinion post in another thread to me.
Good day.
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In my opinion TRich looked hesitant and missed holes that Hardesty was hitting. I expected him to be better than he was and it disappointed me. I am not sure why people would disagree with that point.
As a player overall I think he showed tenacity playing that injured and was a very good receiver.
He'll likely improve this season. Seems silly to point out but even TRich spoke of his disappointment with his play last season.
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LOL.............why would I have a guilty conscious? Is your opinion that almighty? It wasn't hard to figure out since I was about the only one saying I was disappointed by his performance last year.
Good night.
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I think it comes down to this. I see Jackson as a 3rd down back. I see Hardesty as a solid #2 back who can be a # 1 in this league. I may be wrong but I liked what I saw from the guy last year and lets be realistic, he has a hammy injury in camp and has missed one preseason game.
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My point is that once many posters make up their minds about a topic and refuse to change their minds no matter what. I can't believe you haven't noticed that.
I'd say 99.9% of the board falls into that category, you and me included. Some are better than others, but everyone's got an angle they refuse to let die.
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Posts: 13,803 Likes: 172 |
Quote:
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The ribs will be brought up again. I am a bit skeptical of that story. Broken ribs are serious. Like someone else said, it hurts to laugh. Sneezing is a killer. TRich certainly wasn't ineffective because he was AVOIDING contact. In fact, he SOUGHT out contact. That doesn't jibe w/broken ribs.
vers...so now you are calling into to question Richardson's claim about playing with broken ribs?
...you are basically saying Richardson is lying about playing with broken ribs.
...and as proof to support your claim, you say this..."TRich certainly wasn't ineffective because he was AVOIDING contact. In fact, he SOUGHT out contact. That doesn't jibe w/broken ribs."
You do realize, players get shots or take pain pills so they can play...that still happens and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if TR used pain killers to help him endure the pain.
Honestly, whether TR took pain killers or not, is not the issue. From the football players perspective, if your playing hurt, you do your best to ignore the pain and some have a much higher pain threshold than the average human.
Regardless of how TR played with broken ribs..I do not find it shocking nor do I question his truthfulness.
The fact that TR "sought out" contact tells me that he did not change his running style due to his broken ribs..that is a good thing.
If a player has a painful injury, it's going to hurt regardless if he delivers the hit or takes the hit. I've always felt that it was better to deliver the hit rather than take the hit...so I'm not the least bit surprised that TR sought out contact.
Was TR playing at 100% while playing through the rib injury...I seriously doubt it.
Did TR use the injury as an excuse to stand on the sidelines...NO.
The man gave his best effort...no doubt in my mind...I have no reason to question Trent Richardson's honesty.
vers...you questioned Trent Richardson's honesty, saying
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The ribs will be brought up again. I am a bit skeptical of that story. Broken ribs are serious. Like someone else said, it hurts to laugh. Sneezing is a killer. TRich certainly wasn't ineffective because he was AVOIDING contact. In fact, he SOUGHT out contact. That doesn't jibe w/broken ribs
I realize you are looking for anything to criticize TR for...you once commented on his grammar...unreal.
But now you are crossing over into the territory of questioning Richardson's truthfulness about playing with broken ribs...
I know you are going to try to deny and spin your comment, which I quoted just above, not willing to admit the truth, Richardson ran for 950 yds while playing at less than 100%, much of the season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Not sure why you felt the need to point that out twice. I was clear the first time. I have my doubts about the "broken ribs" thing.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
I'm not sure about the percentages but I know there are more than a few of us who listen to and participate in debates and are willing to change our opinion if new information makes sense. It's called having an open mind with a willingness to learn.
I know what Vers is talking about. It's one thing to stick to one's guns on an opinion after all the debates are in and all information is assimilated. We all do that I agree. And there's nothing wrong at all with that. We'll see things differently when viewed from our individual perspective. These boards were created so we fans could debate, share information, argue and agree to disagree on the subject of our interest. Who's to say who is right or wrong until it all plays out? Besides, it really doesn't matter who's right or wrong anyway. It's just an opinion.
But there are those who hold their opinions more as a fine possession. They will form a hasty opinion before all the information is in and then refuse to budge from it for fear of it appearing to look as though their opinion could be wrong, that they are not so knowledgeable in the matter of football. Most others don't look at them that way but these posters fear that they do. They'll often go to the degree of doing internet searches looking for evidence to back up their stance and then misinterpret the information to make it fit their opinion. That's pretty much called an agenda, something that for some reason a poster holds so near and dear to their heart that they just can't let it go even when others all around make very good points to the contrary. By their actions then, others do end up looking at them as though they aren't so knowledgeable about football. The very thing they feared would happen in the first place.
All of us form a first, hasty opinion. What else are we to do? We make judgements. But when new evidence is revealed we should be willing to take that into account, compare it to what we already know and adjust our opinion accordingly if it has merit.
Personally I think that shows a maturity and a willingness to learn. On the other hand, being bullheaded and dogmatic over a first opinion refusing to learn anything beyond that shows immaturity and a fear of being wrong. For some on here being right, or more accurately the fear of being wrong, is more important than taking it all in and learning from it and they will argue to the death saying "I refuse to consider anything new because I feel I already know all I need to know".
There are actually very few like that here but unfortunately they tend to be some of the more vocal of our bunch. And it's easy to spot them, when they feel backed into a corner they are then characterized by focusing on personalities instead of the facts, information and opinions of the topic. When they feel they are beaten intellectually then they lash out in other ways, often with personal attacks.
In real life they may hit somebody, or key their car if they're a coward to boot.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 Likes: 22
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 Likes: 22 |
I used to be a hardheaded stubborn fool. I've changed and mellowed a great deal.
Now I spend my time,stubbornly,foolishly trying to get all you hardheads to see things my way.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,845 Likes: 159
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,845 Likes: 159 |
Quote:
Not sure why you felt the need to point that out twice. I was clear the first time. I have my doubts about the "broken ribs" thing.
Maybe I just missed it, but I've seen no evidence that the broken ribs thing was not accurate and real? have you or is it just a gut feeling on your part?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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