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YTown, next sunday all starters except Kruger will be from Heckert.
You are like a broken record. We got it Dj.........you loved Heckert. You hate the new FO.
Your act is old and tired. It's also extremely obvious as we can practically view the saliva gathering in the corners of your mouth as the final 53 was approaching. Just another opportunity for you to spew your hate and bitterness.
And your facts are not really facts. I quit reading your drivel because I almost knew what you were going to say, but Lewis "career" average is 3.6, not 3.4. And Baltimore has Rhodes and Pierce, and the latter actually has looked better than the former recently. They are loaded at RB. Rainey is going to be a player. Later, you'll say you had him rated high. 
There was a lot of dead wood at the bottom of the roster. I argued w/other people that just because we had a lot of young players playing, it doesn't necessarily mean they were good players. Big deal we got rid of guys like Carder, Wade, Johnson, Marecic, etc. They weren't very good.
I never saw this as a one year fix. The goal is to steadily improve the roster. I'm not saying all their decisions are good. Heck, they might be atrocious. But, nailing them to the cross like you repeatedly do reeks of a man who had his mind made up long before the action went down.
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I was trying to understand something Vers, did DJ make that up. Aren't all the starters except Kruger, Bess, D. Bryant, all from the Heckert years or Prior?
Weeden
Richardson
Greco
Thomas
Schwartz
Pinky
Lava
Mack
Gordon
Obi
Little
Benjaman (kinda)
Rubin
Taylor
Sheard
TJ Ward
Haden
Skrine
Jackson
Robertson
Gipson
Did I miss anyone?
So really, the only additions we've had by this regime to the starting ranks are Kruger, Bess, Desmond Bryant.
So while DJ was wrong in that there were two more starters that this regime added that he didn't account for, he's not wrong about most of the starters having already been here.
I don't see the need to trash DJ for stating mostly factual information. You may not like the facts, but they are what they are.
Now, to be fair, what Heckert didn't do is give us quality depth. Not to say that wouldn't have in coming years. I think that's where this regime made their mark this year.
Heckert and Holmgren didn't give us anywhere near the quality of coaching staff we have now.
We probably have better depth than at anytime since the return. And with what little we've seen and for whatever you can tell from Preseason, this appears to be a better coaching staff.. All remains to be seen.
One miss so far is kicker. They'll find one this week, probably Billy Cundiff who did a decent job for us a while back.
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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YTown, next sunday all starters except Kruger will be from Heckert.
You are like a broken record. We got it Dj.........you loved Heckert. You hate the new FO.
Your act is old and tired. It's also extremely obvious as we can practically view the saliva gathering in the corners of your mouth as the final 53 was approaching. Just another opportunity for you to spew your hate and bitterness.
Nice try, how about you try "talking football"? For a moment I thought you were being honest on the last response you gave me in the other post. So much for that, huh?
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And your facts are not really facts. I quit reading your drivel because I almost knew what you were going to say, but Lewis "career" average is 3.6, not 3.4. And Baltimore has Rhodes and Pierce, and the latter actually has looked better than the former recently. They are loaded at RB. Rainey is going to be a player. Later, you'll say you had him rated high.
OMG, you got me here, everything I said is useless now. Yeah, and I constantly pimp prospects after the fact although I post my opinion loud and clear on almost 200 specs every draft, lol. Do you really need to resort to 5yo rhetorics? Who do you think will you convince with those "arguments"?
I missed TRich's AVG by 0.2ypc. I had 3.4ypc in my head because that was TRich's (not Lewis btw) AVG after the ribs, MY BAD but fact remains that it was pretty bad. Wonder why you didn't even go near the other 4 points? Thanks for the "fact correction" though, lol and your point is? I've got other facts for you: Rainey didn't make the Ravens for two straight seasons and the Ravens are the only team in the NFL right now with only 2 RBs on the roster. God, they must have loved Rainey. Rainey also is probably the worst backup RB in the entire NFL right now. I have more hope for DJohnson, but our RB depth chart is embarrassing to say the least. Forsett, Woodehead and Bradshaw were a few cheap FA RBs with a decent track record that would have been good backups/safety nets for TRIch. Now, we better pray TRich remains healthy for 16 games (fat chance) or we have to play a small and slow 2012 UDFA from Western Kentucky, who can't run between the tackles at all or another UDFA that was a backup/scat back at Arkansas. Both these guys look good and elusive in space but if you have to start them and have them run up the gut, you have a big problem.
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There was a lot of dead wood at the bottom of the roster. I argued w/other people that just because we had a lot of young players playing, it doesn't necessarily mean they were good players. Big deal we got rid of guys like Carder, Wade, Johnson, Marecic, etc. They weren't very good.
Thanks for proving my other point. Carder is our top backup at ILB.
But you still didn't get my point: I'm not bummed that some late rounders/UDFA were let got and replaced by others. I criticize the timing and "do nothing about it"-sitting on their butts the 8 months prior. If those guys were deemed replaceable, why not act earlier and get better talent in? And why couldn't we get those shiny new UDFA to OUR camp to begin with? 9 rookie UDFAs, 2 own, 7 from other team's cuts. It indicates a lack of talent evaluation and that's my problem if you haven't noticed yet.
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I never saw this as a one year fix. The goal is to steadily improve the roster. I'm not saying all their decisions are good. Heck, they might be atrocious. But, nailing them to the cross like you repeatedly do reeks of a man who had his mind made up long before the action went down.
Nice try again, unlike you I've gone from move to move, non move to non move and applauded/criticized them accordingly. I've been pretty consistent either way. Otoh, I don't think I've read a negative comment so far from you with regards to this regime. Just for the record and further fun later on: you fully happy with their offseason?
#gmstrong
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I wasn't questioning the "facts" of who brought the starters in. He had a segment that began w/here are some facts. That included the Rainey thing, the TRich thing, etc.
Not asking you to agree w/me, but can't you really see that the guy has a burr up his butt for the new FO? Heck, it's in his freaking sig.
It's the same thing over and over and over and over.
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Nice try, how about you try "talking football"? For a moment I thought you were being honest on the last response you gave me in the other post. So much for that, huh?
LOL...........you never responded to that post. Guess it was too much to ask. If this is the way you want it...........so be it.
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Otoh, I don't think I've read a negative comment so far from you with regards to this regime. Just for the record and further fun later on: you fully happy with their offseason?
Really? Sheesh..........I have posted at least two or three negative comments regarding them just this morning.
Keep fighting your useless little war. You actually could be a good poster, but you just can't get past this "I need to be right" thing.
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I disagree on Rainey as I do like his skill set but Hardesty was set to be our #2 and Lewis as our 3rd down skat back we lost both. It happens and I think the guys we brought in there have some skills.
TE and corner have been disasters for this front office. They get an F in both areas.
I think they did great with our front 7 and the new kid they brought in this week 96 i think it was has some skills. BTW I started to see some of that burst from Armonty Bryant this week. He could play an important role for us before this year is up. He and Winn will play a ton.
I just fail to comprehend the plan for TE and Corner. Those 2 areas, I just dont get it. Sheldon was by far better than anyone we have now not named Haden. Maybe we will bring in a vet after week 1 when the vet guarantees come off the table. If corner really bites us in the ass, it is all on this regime.
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Maybe we will bring in a vet after week 1 when the vet guarantees come off the table
You just have to believe this will be the case. I'm certain they're not happy with what we've got starting at CB at this moment...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...roster-1.425347Chudzinski said as of Saturday, Buster Skrine had won the starting right cornerback job opposite Joe Haden. “Right now, it would be Buster Skrine,” Chudzinski said. “Chris Owens has done a really good job this camp. We feel like we have two guys who can play and alternate. As much as people are in sub personnel right now, you need three anyhow. Both of those guys are going to be big parts of what we do.” More tests for Mingo? Chudzinski said an ESPN report that first-round pick Barkevious Mingo (bruised lung) would undergo a CT scan Monday was inaccurate, but that left some wondering if only the day was wrong.I'm getting really concerned with Mingo's health 
#gmstrong
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I still don't know how he got the bruised lung. Doubt it just happened or that it was caused by a condition as I've never heard of any condition that causes such a thing.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Who goes when we add a kicker?
I'm thinking R Butler (OT) could be cut. Also, one of Hazel/Martin at LB and one of Grey/Milton at TE- whomever loses out. I know they are new guys, but we brought in two where we "needed" one each.
I bet they view Gurley as their #5 WR even tho he is on the PS. He becomes #6 the instant Gordon is back - still from the PS.
The LB pickups make me think Mingo goes to IR-boomerang. It could be one of the Gs, but I don't think so. If we IR-boomerang a guy after say... week 2...when can he return?
In reality I'd expect that Bademosi would play CB in a nickel/dime package before McFadden. Furthermore, I think Aubrey would play CB after Bademosi. Those guys are the #2 safety(s) and 5th & 6th CBs.
I hope Bademosi does NOT return kicks. We cannot afford an injury to the DB core. Hopefully one of the new guys can handle that. I wonder if Grey can handle that - former QB...good size...versatile...channeling Josh Cribbs here.
I think the next-most-certain game day inactive after Hoyer is McFadden. I'm not down on the guy, he just isn't ready.
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I hope Bademosi doesn't return kicks because he's not that good at it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I hope Bademosi doesn't return kicks because he's not that good at it.
Agreed...I should have put that BEFORE the injury concern...he's so not-good at it he's bad. 
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The next cut has to be either an OT (Butler or Wallace) or one of the DE/OLBs (Hazel/Martin). Don't see them cut one of the new TEs as I think they provide depth at WR too with Gordon out, as both Cameron and Gray can line up as WRs. And as far as OTs, no need to keep 4, as Schwartz is JT's backup, just need a RT backup. In the end I expect one of each to go for a PK and another CB. Btw, 49ers just signed WR C.Harper off the Seahawks PS to their roster. The rich getting richer, while we are keeping an UDFA, who was a backup/situational player at freaking Western Michigan in the MAC (Hazel) and who didn't even survive the 1st cuts of a talentless JAX roster. 
#gmstrong
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NRTU
Remember that another guy has to go before week # 3. If we pickup another CB prior to that, yet another 'someone-else' will have to go.
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NRTU
Remember that another guy has to go before week # 3. If we pickup another CB prior to that, yet another 'someone-else' will have to go.
Sure, at that point one of the new TEs will be let go, but more realistic is that someone else we don't know yet will land on IR to make room
#gmstrong
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I hope that Rainey returns kicks for us. He looked good doing it for the Ravens in the preseason.
I watched the Ravens/Rams preseason game last night and was really impressed with Rainey. I know that a lot of what he did was against backups and all, but he was able to get out of situations where he was completely cut off to make positive yardage, and he looked good catching the ball as well. Add if that he also looked foor returning kicks all preseason, and I can see why we picked him up.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I still don't know how he got the bruised lung. Doubt it just happened or that it was caused by a condition as I've never heard of any condition that causes such a thing.
What is going to happen when a big lineman pancakes him and then falls on top of him? Or a bruiser FB going to get a clean blow on him? I mean is this really a one time injury like it's been talked about? What is and was the root cause of it?
Sounds like a for sure negative to having him ready against the 'Phins.
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My point, which is the same point that I have made all along, is that I am happy that they didn't come in and just start blowing things up. I have said that all along. You seem disappointed that they didn't do so.
There are spots that are question marks, and that's how this staff has treated them. Thus far they are getting positive answers, so they are staying with those players.
I'm not going to go searching for your past posts. Frankly, it's not that important to me. If you don't want to answer a relatively simple question, then just say so.
As to being contradictory ..... I don't see that at all. I am happy with the way things have turned out, because, as I said, I like a lot of the "questionable" guys who are starters. I want to see if they can make it as starters. I haven't been one to run down Heckert. I think that he did a good job here. However, I think that it's clear that he had some personal issues, and those issues have lead him to being suspended by the Broncos. I would bet that those issues has as much to do with his dismissal as anything else. Anyway, I like a lot of what Heckert did here. I have said that all along as well. However, new guys come in and they bring their guys with them. It happens.In most cases the new guys gut a team and start over. That didn't happen this time. I am very happy about that. Again, you see almost disappointed by this, and I am confused as to why. It would seem that it is a good thing that they kept many of the starters while trying to improve the backups if you liked the starters to start with. I don't mind them churning the bottom of the roster. Do you?
I'll ask again .... what moves did they make/not make that you feel were just dead wrong, especially regarding the starters.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I still don't know how he got the bruised lung. Doubt it just happened or that it was caused by a condition as I've never heard of any condition that causes such a thing.
What is going to happen when a big lineman pancakes him and then falls on top of him? Or a bruiser FB going to get a clean blow on him? I mean is this really a one time injury like it's been talked about? What is and was the root cause of it?
Sounds like a for sure negative to having him ready against the 'Phins.
Dr. Wikipedia reporting. Lung injuries are typically freak accidents or car accidents. He didn't even injure his ribs or the surrounding area from what we're told. The only possible issue we're going to see from this injury is possibly Mingo's low body fat percentage will mean he could be injured again in any area.
The only oddity with Mingo's accident (aside from its odd nature to begin with), is that he was coughing up blood so quickly, while the injury was so minor. Typically injuries so minor people don't have symptoms. My guess is Mingo continuing to run around and take hits was what made the injury more noticeable than it usually is for non athletes. This is why there were conflicting reports about the severity of his injury.
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I wasn't questioning the "facts" of who brought the starters in. He had a segment that began w/here are some facts. That included the Rainey thing, the TRich thing, etc.
Not asking you to agree w/me, but can't you really see that the guy has a burr up his butt for the new FO? Heck, it's in his freaking sig.
It's the same thing over and over and over and over.
What I see in DJ is the exact same thing I see in you.. People who have opinions and express them. Neither of you deserve to be beaten for expressing them, yet the two of you are killing each other over what really isn't important at all.
Who cares who likes which regime. All I want is to win, I could care less if they dig up Paul Browns body and prop him up on the sidelines. If it helps us win, I'm good.
You and DJ should be also. I would hope so anyway.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I thought Benjamin was slotted as our KR/PR. Do you think he is too fragile or?
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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I want no part of Benjamin at KR. PR is fine, but KO returners get pounded far too much for me to be comfortable with him in there. I hope that we move Rainey into the KR role.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I want no part of Benjamin at KR. PR is fine, but KO returners get pounded far too much for me to be comfortable with him in there. I hope that we move Rainey into the KR role.
that would be fun to watch..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I thought Benjamin was slotted as our KR/PR. Do you think he is too fragile or?
I love him as a PR and I'm afraid he'll get broken in half at KR. I'd love him at KR too if he'd gain about 30 lbs.
I also think he'll be used a lot in Gordon's absence...so PR KR and WR seems like a lot to ask.
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This IS NOT how a front office builds a team "via the draft".
Clearly this is an indication that our front offices' "eye for talent" is suspect as they cut the players they (Banner and Lombardi) signed in favor of someone elses camp cuts.
Actually its exactly how you build through the draft:
1. The majority of these signings if not ALL are UDFA players (considered 8th rounds n further in the draft).
2. Making 6 moves (two due to IR status of Lewis n Hardesty) of tweaking the Bottom of our Barrel is not this BIG OVER HAUL you are portraying here.
To you n Django who are oh so wise...lol  n better evaluators of personnel then our guys. UDFA you don't get to sign all that you wish. They actually sign with other teams - Go Figure!
Our scouts have been evaluating young talent so that when these cuts were made we jumped on a few that we felt were Upgrades. Again Upgrade at the Back End of our Depth Charts!
And yes this is  Chicken little stuff. Oh no we cut our 4th TE n signed another. We signed a young OG/C that the Packers liked...probably to cut Shaw??? Who has been playing the backup Center??? Oh NO!
How can you stand there and in your hatred to this FO state this is not building through the draft. When actually it is just that. We aren't signing Band Aid Veterans we are signing UDFA Rookies that have not taken a snap of REAL FOOTBALL for another team but of course our Browns if they make the final roster! Who cares if they spent camp time somewhere else! If they are better than the UDFAs we cut or veteran depth not able to move up the charts. ergo Jackson RB n King? TE.
We actually did more building through the draft adding two UDFA Rookies to take their place.
Why make up stuff cause you hate... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Here is the problem I have with the recent moves. It gives a real impression like the FO does not think this team can win and is throwing in the towel before the season starts. It really does make make the free agent period leaving 30 million open and in the draft trading 2013 picks for 2014 picks look like a plan. It seems to me that 2013 for this FO is a continuing of the H&H youth movement of 2012. I don't have a problem with it because having a plan and sticking with it is what makes teams successful in the long run. It just is not what Haslam promised all of us.
The facts are both positive and negative.
1) During free agency they were given tons of space under the cap to fill needs. They chose to remain 30 million under the cap probably to continue to build a young foundation and make their splash in 2014.
2) Trade 2013 draft picks for better 2014 draft picks. Again I have no problem with this philosophy. I am just afraid of Lombardi making those picks.
3) Cut veterans for unproven UDFA's that may be talented but won't help the team in 2013. Chose to cut even their own free agent signings. Sign that 2013 is not for them a team that can win.
4) Was again not active filling holes with unsigned or cut veterans like Beenie Wells who could fill in as Hardesty's repacement. Or a Brandon Lloyd who can more than fill the void left by Gordon in the first 2 games.
It will probably pay off in a year or 2. Same thing I felt with Heckert and Holmgren's strategy in 2012. Not what Haslam promised us. It just feels like 2012 all over again.
Last edited by Day of the Dawg; 09/02/13 12:40 PM.
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Billy Cundiff was the other kicker according to the other thread.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Just curious how signing a plethora of guys "not drafted" means exactly building through the draft?
I know you added the  but still not sure if that means you were serious about that statement or not. If serious then quite frankly I'm rather disappointed in your football (does that help lol )
Once upon a time we use to draft players what? till the 20th round or something close to that??? Many a HOF came from those rounds. Our beloved Brian Sipe was taken in what double DIGIT round?
But lets go back in history all the way BACK TO 2012!
We signed 15 UDFA's then added a couple more. And we got just what out of that? Our starting FS this year for ONE Gipson. Bademosi, Cooper. Its a simple process called letting the CREAM RISE TO THE TOP! Now because we are doing something likewise and not even close to the degree of last year. You will begrudge this new Regime/FO a similar investment? If we come away from it with another 2 good players - GREAT n so on and so on. Its how you BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT...what you have to DRAFT PICK n use that term in a literal fashion? To me building through the draft is bringing in a "PLETHORA" of rookies and letting the cream rise. I don't care if its a 7th rounder Gilkey or a 16th rounder in Rainey...its building through the draft to me.
JMHO but you were curious how...so I am explaining unless that curiosity was not genuine???
Veterans usually have a defined "WORTH" Pro Bowlers available are usually very expensive n their skills are degrading fast ergo their availability.
But a young UDFA you don't know what their Potential might be. Who will live up to it? who will fall down? Upgrade, Upgrade, Upgrade throughout off season throughout camps throughout preseason and now when 31 teams within 10 days let go approx. 900 players. Where once again we can upgrade on our BOTTOM 10 of our roster. It might be guys we tried to sign here as UDFA's and we followed their development. It might be JOE SHMOE From Little U that we never even thought about but followed their development. These last few months especially Preseason games where there is tape available on all these kids. We can educate ourselves much much more precise than with a 4 day combine or a one day PRO DAY. I don't think there is one vet? we have signed. Its a process that has been going on for years - If you are so lucky to get a GIPSON every year out of these kids...you will surely have a shot at being competitive.
Yes, Its building through the draft to me. Its a good process. Its been one missing as we were scrambling how many years trying to get a "STARTER" out of these cuts. Remember that? I am so pleased and yes attribute Heckert to getting this turned around. But at least I'm very pleased to see us CONTINUE the process. This is how you build a team.
So we got rid of a blocking TE that was a what 5-6 year vet. And signed a kid cut by NO who probably was going on their PS who is a physical BEAST. 293 lbs. Who knows maybe he has OT in his future? Who knows he might become the most destructive blocking machine in the NFL who can also catch a pass in Goal line! The guy we cut had 10 thumbs and frankly I was not impressed with his blocking! Its called upgrading the bottom of your barrel. Its what every REAL TEAM DOES....if you are looking for starters from this process at this time of the year...PACK IT IN!!!
Now Kicker can be an exception. Yes, I do think they made a mistake not giving Dawson a 3 year contract...Heckert also for not signing him for 4 or 5 successively of course he had the luxury of the Franchise Tag.
But teams even Post Season teams look for kickers if they are not satisfied even mid season! Outside of that...we are just doing bottom of the barrel improvements n the Youngsters are the best of the undrafted best and the science is more advanced from this observation then just after the draft.
JMHO - why do you guys wish for me to be so long winded....lol
Hopefully I answered why. Hopefully you got an open mind, actually I've always thought you to have in the past. Unlike a true agenda poster who no matter what will not change their stripes..you know Mac 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
JC
Scott Petrak, Elyria Chronicle, reporting the Browns will hold a tryout for PK tomorrow between Dan Carpenter and another kicker.
http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2013/...h-bruised-lung/
It's the genuis of Lombardi at work. 30 million under the cap with a pro bowl kicker that is the best in the busines kicking in snow, ice, and wind and the team ends up holding try outs 5 days before the season starts. He should be fired for that move alone.
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Billy needs to change his last name, imo.
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UDFA in his opinion is a continuation of the draft, and I understand what he is saying. I also agree.
I'll give Lombardi some credit here....he casts a wide net. Both of the backs look like guys who could pay dividends.
Five or six of the players on the PS are defensive seconday players who will be practicing with the team to get better each day. I like our position right now.
As for kicker, we'll have a kicker on Sunday. We will try-out 2-3 on Tuesday or Wednesday and have one on Thursday morning. That gives him 3 days to work with his holder and center on timing and placement.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Quote:
JC
Scott Petrak, Elyria Chronicle, reporting the Browns will hold a tryout for PK tomorrow between Dan Carpenter and another kicker.
http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2013/...h-bruised-lung/
It's the genuis of Lombardi at work. 30 million under the cap with a pro bowl kicker that is the best in the busines kicking in snow, ice, and wind and the team ends up holding try outs 5 days before the season starts. He should be fired for that move alone.
Oh please,, Please tell me we aren't going to rehash this again.. PLEASE TELL ME WE AREN'T
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I wouldn't mind bringing in Cundiff for round 2. That guy was money for us that one year he filled in for Phil.
This Johnson RB guy looks pretty interesting. Reminds me of our last Razorback RB (only I hope he doesn't have the same ego/brains and whine himself out of a job). The only "knock" I have against him in those highlight clips is the lanes he had were HUUUUUGE. That oline just dominated everything in front of them. I don't think we can expect our guys up front to create those kinds of lanes (at least not yet), so I wonder what he's going to look like when he has DL's and LB's getting hands on him.
What he did in the open field was awesome, though. You could almost see his thought process, "Hmm, will I juke this guy, or should I just run him over?"
Edit: Mixed up Rainey and Johnson.
Last edited by oobernoober; 09/02/13 02:50 PM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Ballpeen, I would agree that UDFA is an extension to the draft to a small degree...but only directly after said draft is complete and the small window to sign guys begins (within 24 hours after the draft is over). After that, the UDFA term essentially doesn't mean much. Today-- they are cuts, rookies, cast-offs, etc. The same status as vets looking for jobs. And our own UDFAs from April are pretty much all gone. Faulk (injured) and Wallace (an expected cut once others come back from being injured) is all that's left I am not mistaken. And how often do UDFA make a significant difference? The percentage is very small and although a very small few do make it, they fall nowhere in comparison to the players actually chosen in rounds 1-7, obviously. Furthermore, how long do they make it until they're replaced by drafted talent? Hence, why it's important to build through the draft as it stands today. Yes it's nice for some to think of UDFAs as the drafted players rounds 8 and up of yesteryear, but the figures are the same as they are now. The higher players are taken the better they do.
And if signing these former UDFAs 4 months later (after cutting our own UDFAs) is still considering building through the draft, well then I couldn't disagree more. It's finding more bodies. That's all. And hopefully we find good ones but it's not building through the draft as we know the term to be. The term this FO and others in recent history have "committed" to doing.
I would love for Banner and/or Lombardi to come out and say that picking up Rainey is just like signing a drafted (but recently cut) player in the 13th round. "See we ARE building through the draft!"... :rofl. They wouldn't because they are smarter than that and know we are smarter than that.
@ EO, I guess you can consider this a response to your comment as well. Thanks for the insult saying your disappointed in "my football" by simply disagreeing with you or questioning a comment of yours. Not that I'm omniscient regarding the sport (and never will be) but anyone saying something like this is poorly trying to trump another. You do this often to posters. I do enjoy most of your posts but you have continuously supported EVERY action by EVERY person in EVERY regime EVERY year as pointed out by others on here. This approach hasn't left you with the best batting average to be the one judging others about their football opinion.
I have a very finite view in what "building through the draft" means- particularly as it relates to what a front office in today's NFL says as it pertains to their strategy to the draft. It doesn't mean referring to UDFA as late round picks of the formerly known teen rounds. It means allocating time and resources to rounds 1-7 and slotting talent successfully.
I guess some people choose to include UDFA signed by other teams... then cut... and then signed by us as building through the draft. Go for it. I'M NOT. This second go-around picking up others' cuts isn't building through the draft.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I must agree with you.
The NFL decided to cut the draft down in rounds for a reason. either a player is drafted, or he isn't. In which case, 32 teams including our own has decided someone wasn't worthy of being drafted.
It's quite simple really. Picking up cast offs and UDFA's is nothing more than taking a huge gamble. does it sometimes pay off? On a rare occasion, yes. But anyone willing to look at the odds can see that it's quite a long shot.
The draft was in April. You evaluate a draft by the players drafted, not by those who were not drafted. We may luck out yet again and end up with a productive player in the group. But to say we did a great job in this area I believe is more than a bit pre mature.
Do we have a guy like Gipson starting for us? Yes we do. Is he going to be a good safety for us? That remains to be seen. Just because a guy is "your best option at the position at the time" doesn't mean he's good. It means he happens to be the lesser of the evils you have at the time.
ie..... He did a great job with his Int. during pre season. the problem is, his coverage on that play was terrible. The WR was wide open. The pass was poorly thrown leading to a tipped ball which he pulled in. So in summery? He didn't cover well but he's great at catching tipped balls!
That doesn't mean we answered a position of need at a starting position with a UDFA. It means we haven't answered that position at all yet and have a band aid for now. That's two completely different things IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
It's quite simple really. Picking up cast offs and UDFA's is nothing more than taking a huge gamble.
Picking number 1 overall is a gamble.. Picking in the Top 20 is a gamble but Picking after the 7th round is over isn't much of a gamble at all.. Stakes go way down, cost of a mistake is, in NFL circles anyway, chump change.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I suppose we disagree, but do seem to find some agreement. To me, the season hasn't started, so everything we do is an extension of the draft....building towards this season.
One would have to think some of these people were on our draft board or list of UDFA to sign but for reasons, weren't able to sign them. Some were drafted before we could and some didn't want to sign with us directly after the draft.
I think we picked up some good looking players. If one or two turn in to good players for us, who cares when we got them?
Sure, it's going to take some time. By next Sunday, many will only have 6-8 plays they can run, but it will double every week. In a month, they are full go if needed.
JMO
Last edited by Ballpeen; 09/02/13 04:29 PM.
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I meant gamble in their odds of making the roster, being a productive player or a long term answer at a position. Not in terms of investment.
And if you wish, you're more than welcome to check those odds.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I meant gamble in their odds of making the roster, being a productive player or a long term answer at a position. Not in terms of investment.
And if you wish, you're more than welcome to check those odds.
Oh hell no, I don't care enough to dig that deep.  I believe you when you put it that way.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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