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Yep. The front office is probably 99.99999% sure that they are going to take a QB high in the draft ....and the other remaining percentage points are probably wrapped up in being sure to look hard at one.
Unless Weeden has such an incredible turnaround that it defies most logic, he's not going to be the starter next year. I just don't see them making moves to find a great QB, and then saying "Oh, this guy's fine" unless he somehow becomes truly great.
However, what Weeden can do, for us and for him, if to show massive improvement so that another team wants to trade for him to be their starter. Can he d it? Who knows? The odds seem to be against it ..... but strange things have happened in football before. I hope that he plays well enough that someone wants to trade for him ..... so that we get somethign for him as opposed to just cutting him. I can't imagine us keeping him as the 3rd string guy ..... and it seems likely that Hoyer will either start, or will be the primary backup. I want to get something for Weeden as opposed to just throwing him away. Weeden can help himself, and us, by improving as much as he can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I suspect that Hoyer will come back and be fine and with Weeden still under contract, the odd man out would be Campbell.
Not for anything, but Campbell is still under contract through 2015.
Browns contract status via Spotrac
You'll notice that Shawn Lauvao, Alex Mack and T.J. Ward are free agents. So is Craig Robertson.
After next season, we'll have a lot more players becoming free agents, including a lot of key pieces. Browns that will become free agents after next season include Jordan Cameron, Joe Haden, Phil Taylor, Jabaal Sheard, Ahtyba Rubin, Buster Skrine and Brian Hoyer. You can add Chris Ogbannaya, Ishmaa'ily Kitchen, Johnson Bademosi, Dion Lewis, Greg Little, Tashaun Gipson and Quientin Groves.
That's a lot of free agents that have to be considered after NEXT season. I think the Browns will make contract extension offers to a number of these players in the off-season.
Another option that most folks here haven't considered is that the Browns may actually consider trading away a first rounder (for a player) or using it as trade material in a trade back (to acquire more picks in the draft). As with every other time you're in battle, you can NEVER have too much ammo.
I fully expect that this front office may try and turn that first rounder that we got from Indy for Richardson into a panoply of picks that gets them the same value that Holmgren & Co. gave up to acquire him.
Aren't you glad that Joe Banner didn't spend all the money he had available?
#GMSTRONG
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At first, I never thought Hoyer had a prayer of being the guy. I was convinced that we were drafting a qb in round 1. Then, I saw Hoyer play.
I actually think Hoyer had a chance to win the job and we could have used all those picks to build a great team. Did you see that first pass he made to Gordon? The one Gordon dropped? What a beauty of a throw. Great read. Threw it in about 1.5 seconds. Right on the money. In stride. Wow!
Now, w/him getting hurt so early in the process and his lack of accomplishments.....it's safe to assume we are almost guaranteed to pick a first round qb and we may even use multiple picks to move up in the draft.
What a shame.
I agree with this entire post.
I also pointed out that throw to Gordon from Hoyer when another poster said that Weeden can make more NFL throws than Hoyer. Ridiculous. With Hoyer we actually felt like a real professional offense.
YTown called my criticism of Weeden visceral. He claims I used to love him. Both characterizations are exaggerations. I don't feel we can win many games with Weeden from here on out though. I'm so disappointed with what has happened. As long as Dalton is the QB in Cinci and with the Steelers playing just a few notches above the Jaguars, we have a real golden opportunity this season. I hope Weeden can seize this opportunity. He admitted on national TV that Hoyer played quicker than he did and he needed to correct that. Kudos to him. But we need the light to come on quickly.
I hope it does.
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After Thursday';s game I said to a buddy of mine, "this win feels hollow because of what happened to Hoyer."
Just a couple of days after I stated that Weeden "sucks", he's the QB again and I'm rooting for him to succeed.
He needs to get better in a hurry. Obviously he'll need help form teammates, but our season and maybe his NFL career is in his hands.
Go Weeds! He's all we got right now.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong ----------------- 2023: The year we got a legit D.
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What is your take on Lombardi as a talent evaluator? You two seem to be the only people I've seen talking up Mallett and it intrigues me.
I liked Ryan Mallett too, but since he's on New England and the only way to get him would be to trade for him, I simply don't bring him up. If I recall, New England wanted a 1st round pick for him. I simply don't like him THAT much.
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The short answer is 'Yes, I am glad.' The long answer is 'Yeppers! I am glad that he didn't spend the entire cap during the off-season.' 
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Weeden won't be outright released unless he becomes an arch-criminal and does it openly.
Huh? He is getting cut for sure. We have Weeden, Hoyer, and Campbell under contract for next season. I say that both Weeden and Campbell are gone. And no one is trading for Weeden.
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What is your take on Lombardi as a talent evaluator? You two seem to be the only people I've seen talking up Mallett and it intrigues me.
I liked Ryan Mallett too, but since he's on New England and the only way to get him would be to trade for him, I simply don't bring him up. If I recall, New England wanted a 1st round pick for him. I simply don't like him THAT much.
think it was a second. funny I was just saying this on the other board. they just lost there DT and I was wondering if lambardi was going to try to trade maybe Ishmaa'ily Kitchen and a 5th or so for him.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I'd give up Kitchen for Mallett real quick.
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Weeden won't be outright released unless he becomes an arch-criminal and does it openly.
Huh? He is getting cut for sure. We have Weeden, Hoyer, and Campbell under contract for next season. I say that both Weeden and Campbell are gone. And no one is trading for Weeden.
And we know that what you say is all that counts. 
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After Thursday';s game I said to a buddy of mine, "this win feels hollow because of what happened to Hoyer."
I had quite the opposite reaction, lampy.
After my "5 minutes of shock" subsided, I said out loud:
"What else did you expect? This is Cleveland Browns football you're watching. Nothing will ever come easily for this team. Now, show us what you're made of."
After that, I watched this team suck it up and truly become a 'band of brothers.' I'm already on-record expressing my disappointment about Hoyer's injury, but Dawg- that team impressed the hell out of me Thursday night.
Many are expressing a lack of confidence in Weeden's abilities, which is fair. I totally get that.
At the same time I 'get this,' as well: We have a real, honest-to-God NFL team to surround him with, and about the most crack coordinators/coaching staff in the league to plan our games. Granted, those games will play out differently than they would have under Hoyer, but guess what? That's what our coaching staff gets paid to do- and Hoyer's injury didn't suddenly make them less capable at their jobs.
It was a big blow, to be sure. But for me, the only thing it really changes is the narrative, going forward. I'm watching it all play out with just as much interest as I had Thur night at 8:00... because I think they still have a chance of winning against any team they play.
My new mantra: these aren't the Browns that fans are used to seeing. Not by a long shot.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Why would we give them Ishmaa'ily Kitchen?
Besides, Lombardi isn't going to be the one making that decision anyway. He might propose something, but it'll be Banner making any decision about trading away players or trading for players.
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I'd give up Kitchen for Mallett real quick.
I wouldn't
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I'm guessing that I'm not in the minority in this opinion.
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Lombardi goes to Banner for the final say but I'm guessing that he considers all opinions (Chud, Farmer, Norv, Lombardi) and then makes his decision.
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I'm tending to agree with your assessment Clem.
Ask anyone in the chat during the game, I really had serious questions about Weeden's performance during the game. Django can attest to it for sure and others can also.
But, having time to consider things in a less gray cloud atmosphere, I've concluded that maybe we can go forward somewhat with Weeden. He might be able to step up his game. It was the post-game interview with Gordon that first started it in my mind. He said he spoke to Weeden and gave him some advice about passing the ball. Apparently it worked because Weeden hit Little on a pass deep and then he went deep again to Gordon on the next play for the TD.
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I'd give up Kitchen for Mallett real quick.
I wouldn't
Neither would I.
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I'm guessing that I'm not in the minority in this opinion.
Which one? The 'Weeden will be cut' one or the 'Kitchen for Mallett' one?
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Lombardi goes to Banner for the final say but I'm guessing that he considers all opinions (Chud, Farmer, Norv, Lombardi) and then makes his decision.
I'm sure that he does consider them all. And they could all come forward with a unified position and Banner could still reject it and it won't get done.
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I'm guessing that I'm not in the minority in this opinion.
Which one? The 'Weeden will be cut' one or the 'Kitchen for Mallett' one?
Weeden will be cut.
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I'm guessing that I'm not in the minority in this opinion.
Which one? The 'Weeden will be cut' one or the 'Kitchen for Mallett' one?
Weeden will be cut.
Weeden could be cut, but depending on his his contract guarantees are written, we might also hold on to him into the regular season next year ...... even if he's the 3rd string guy. If it costs us nothing to keep him, then the front office might hold onto him to see if a QB gets hurt in the first few weeks.
Then again they could cut him in the off-season. Who knows?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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A Few thoughts from this thread.
First...Look at all of our forthcoming Free Agents. Everyone that lauded Heckert should be bemoaning this development. Holy Ish that is WAY too many free agents to have at once.
That's akin to the mass exodus we saw in 03 after our playoff season. We better get on the extension wagon ASAP because that amount of FAs is going to take an INCREDIBLE amount of time to fix. That's ridiculous the amount of our core that becomes FAs all in the same year.
As for the QB situation. As dire as it may seem. This is the same situation that we mostly felt that we could go 8-8 with at the beginning of the season. This situation that we have is what we believed in (minus the RB, which is an improved situation (YPC are up)) as much as 3 weeks ago. I'm not willing to sell us as up poop creek with no paddle.
I think we still have an incredible opportunity. With Gordon back, we have that guy to stretch the field which Weeden can do effectively (see the game tying drive where he went deep to Little then TD to Gordon). What he does need to fix though is his quickness in the drop back, the scanning of the situation, the making a decision on what the D is going to do before the snap, and making the decision in the play.
4 of Weeden's 5 sacks I saw an open guy (sitting in the upper pound viewpoint) that he missed early in the play, which led to his holding the ball.
Norv has his work cut out for him. Chud has his work cut out for him with the QB. We were willing to go with it week 1, so I wont call it a season, but the concerns have grown.
We have much bigger openings though now that Gordon can pull the D back...and we've seen on multiple occasions (TD Thursday, and the over the Pacman grab) that if you throw it deep near him, he will certainly battle for the ball.
If I'm Weeden, I look to Josh immediately, Davone shortly after, and then Jordan...if nothing, OGB/Rainey. That would be my progression on every play. First opening we go. Reason I look to Davo0ne so quickly is that's when he is open...within the first 1-2 seconds.
Time for Weeden to simplify, and Norv and Chud to STAY aggressive in the play calling...and Brandon...time to step up.
Get mentally tough and lets go.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Nice thoughts.
Problem is, Weeden isn't quick at reads or decisions so far. He had a couple of them against the Bills....but his overall body of work, and his overall performance against the bills, suggests he still struggles with reads.
He CAN get better. The question is: WILL he.
Time will tell. Just as if a d lineman, or o lineman, reciever, safety, whoever - one gets hurt, the next guy needs to jump in and do the job.
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We better get on the extension wagon ASAP because that amount of FAs is going to take an INCREDIBLE amount of time to fix. That's ridiculous the amount of our core that becomes FAs all in the same year.
Chalk it up to the result of building through the draft.
Over three years of drafting players who were signed to 3 and 4 year deals and who have become core members of the team will ultimately become free agents over a two year period.
It's actually a good problem if you have the cap space to extend their contracts. That means you drafted well because a large group of those players are contributing at a high level.
Many, most or all of these players will need to be extended or resigned. I think the $30 million in cap space many on here have bemoaned the FO for holding onto instead of signing some higher tier FA's is earmarked to use toward holding onto our core players.
#gmstrong
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I agree with Lamp on this one Clem. To me the scary thought is that we got past the Bills with Weeden who, as it turns out, wasn't horrible. But the problems he had before, remain the problems going forward unless he can fix them.
I loved the win, but there was hole there.. Oh well, no time to worry about it now. Moving forward.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Just at an early point of time.. subject to change and just off the top of my head, I'd like to extend Mack and Ward.. pursue Jon Asamoah G Chiefs in FA
Then.. QB, DB / WR in the first 2 rounds of draft.
Like I said, it's early and subject to change
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Three articles from PFT . . . LINK No meeting scheduled for Thigpen, Browns Posted by Josh Alper on October 4, 2013, 9:11 PM EDT The Browns may bring in a quarterback in the wake of the injury to Brian Hoyer, but early word of a meeting between the team and Tyler Thigpen was incorrect. Earlier on Friday, we cited a tweet from Tom Pelissero of USA Today as a report about an expected meeting between the Browns and Thigpen. Pelissero has recently reached out to PFT to clarify that he meant the Browns would be meeting late to discuss their quarterback situation and that he mentioned Thigpen in the same tweet as a name that could wind up in the mix. He’s posted a similar clarification on Twitter as well. No meeting is scheduled between Thigpen and the Browns, who still have Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell on the roster. Brian Hoyer tore his ACL on Thursday night and Weeden steered them to 37-24 victory in Cleveland. LINKJosh Freeman could pick a new team this weekend Posted by Michael David Smith on October 5, 2013, 3:09 PM EDT Free agent quarterback Josh Freeman may be a free agent no longer as soon as this weekend. A league source tells PFT that Freeman could pick a new team by Sunday night. What we don’t know, however, is which teams are interested. And if any teams are interested at all, they’re doing a remarkably good job of keeping that interest quiet. Other than the Bills basically saying all options are on the table while EJ Manuel is recovering from a knee injury, no team has even publicly acknowledged the possibility of signing Freeman. And that makes sense, as no team would want to identify itself as interested in Freeman, only to see him sign with someone else. So we may not hear of any team having interest in Freeman until that team brings Freeman into the fold. Which could happen as soon as the end of Sunday’s games. LINKReport: Bills to take a look at Pat White Posted by Darin Gantt on October 5, 2013, 4:29 PM EDT After being out of the league for two years, former second-round pick Pat White defied the odds by making the Redskins 53-man roster out of training camp, even if he didn’t last long. Now, he’s getting another chance to come back. According to Mike Jurecki of FOX Sports 910 in Phoenix, White is working out for the Bills today. The Bills were said to be keeping all options open after the injury to starter E.J. Manuel, who could miss around six weeks with a sprained lateral collateral ligament. Whether they’re bringing in other quarterbacks in for a look this weekend is unclear, but White showed enough this preseason with the Redskins to make someone take notice.
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My guess is that if we are interested in Freeman we don't want it to be leaked. If we showed interest and he went elsewhere it would crush Weeden.
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Bills should go sign Tebow. They want to run it 50 times a game well he is the QB you need.
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I read that they are working out Pat White. He's Tebow without the Tebow.
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For what it's worth Lombardi liked Pat White when he was entering the league. And he was drafted in the 4th round for the MLB. He was offered another minor league contract earlier this year but seems to still be chasing football.
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I thought he was the worst GM of all time but he keeps making the moves that I wanted us to make soo he has gotten a very smart and started reading my posts lol. Very few things have i disagreed with Lombardi since he came to the Browns.
I do feel he learned a great deal while observing everyone else. I agreed with him on Weeden when we drafted weeden that it was a wasted pick. I thought Gordon was a really stupid move by Heckert and Lombardi agreed with me again there lol Ricahrdson I loved but I have that rule about never draft a RB in the first when he is coming off a knee injury. it is always disaster.
His number 1 selection thus far is the hiring of Chud and that was Lombardi. NFL network Lombardi was amazed by Chud, he praised Chud like no other coordinator in the league.
Never liked the guy but I am more than satisfied with the Job he and Banner have done. Plus they have just brought this aggressive mindset to the Browns that everyone is getting used to and that includes players and fans lol.
We get a lead we arent in prevent we are still in Man and attacking. We are slinging it still.
... Rod Chudzinski was hired on Jan 11, 2013
Linky 1
Lombardi on the 18th
Linky 2
So I can't agree.
Last edited by ChargerDawg; 10/05/13 07:41 PM.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Lombardi was already GM long before then. It just wasnt announced. They waited to hide Lombardi in between hiring coaches. It was planned out to slip Lombardi in the back door while Chud was out front making his press conference.
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I read that they are working out Pat White. He's Tebow without the Tebow.
Well played.
Tackles are tackles.
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jc
Is there really a franchise QB in this draft? I would love to have a franchise QB, but I don't want to trade two 1st round picks just to draft a QB. I would be all for it if I knew the Browns were getting a Luck, Manning, Brady, or a Brees, but I just don't see one in this next draft. I do not want a RG3 type of QB, we all seen how that worked out for Washington. You take RG3 legs out to where he is no longer a threat on the ground and he is nothing special.
I think Hoyer was going to get pretty good after starting in this system for a year, but injury happened. I also think Hoyer would have looked even better if the Browns could run the ball.
I am certainly not football export, but IMO I am not sold on these QBs in this upcoming draft meaning two 1st round picks to move up to obtain one is to risky.
If it were me I would be looking to use my two 1st round picks on play makers WR/TE for Hoyer next year and a OG with the 2nd round then a RB and TE in the 3rd round.
I am not so sure that the Browns need to find a starting #2 CB anymore, for I think Skrine has been playing very well.
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I am not so sure that the Browns need to find a starting #2 CB anymore, for I think Skrine has been playing very well..
Ok.. what happens if Skrine gets hurt? I think we saw the answer to that when the Guards went down early... depth.
We need to start getting quality depth.. and if this league really is becoming a pass league ( I disagree with that concept, but it's a different story) Then I'd like to take a looky see at that position after the first of the year.
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Some good posts on this thread. A few thoughts: --I think this team could have contended for the division w/Hoyer. I agree w/the posters who said they feel deflated because Hoyer was injured. I feel the same way and I just don't have any confidence in Weeden. Hopefully, he proves me wrong. --I would say no to Freeman. He has talent, but this team is establishing a positive identity and I don't want my qb missing meetings, being late, etc. --I actually think signing Thigpin would have been a good move. Too bad the FO doesn't think so. He has some of the same qualities as Hoyer. --I thought Ryan Mallet was the best qb of his draft class, too. His issues were mostly off the field, although he did throw too many picks. I would consider trading for him. --We have a lot of our own free agents to sign. Glad we didn't go crazy in this past off season. I would make it a priority to keep Mack. On the other hand, TJ Ward doesn't impress me all that much. He makes some plays, but he often looks completely lost in coverage. --No way would I draft a RB in the first round, unless it is at the very bottom of the round. We can find a back or three in other places. --I hope the fans don't start w/the OL again. We should try and upgrade, but I would not spend a high pick on the OL. I like Saint's idea. Not sure if it is plausible, but I like it. My concern is that people are going to be going crazy about how bad our OL is now that Weeden is playing again. They aren't great, but that guy makes them look much worse than they are. --<<sigh>> What could have been. It was actually fun watching the Browns. I was really excited all week to see us against Buffalo. Hoyer getting hurt and having to watch Weeden again took all the wind out of my sails. The only thing to look forward to now is how we are going to argue about whose fault it is as to why we are losing again. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
--<<sigh>> What could have been. It was actually fun watching the Browns. I was really excited all week to see us against Buffalo. Hoyer getting hurt and having to watch Weeden again took all the wind out of my sails. The only thing to look forward to now is how we are going to argue about whose fault it is as to why we are losing again.
Quoted for comedy. If anyone who hasn't watched the game and does not know the score might come to the conclusion that we were down 0-10 when Weeden took over and ended up winning 37-24? I doubt it, lol
Also, a 5-8 record of the teams we just beat (2 of those games at home) and 8-3 of the teams we're going to play against (two of them on the road) could also have something to do with us losing again, but I doubt that's what I'll read on here, after all it has already been posted who is the culprit of losses yet to come, hilarious. The flat out hate continues and since some can't hate on the outcome of his last game, they can't wait to talk about attaching losses to Weeden. Sad. It really is.
The icing is that this hanging head attitude is coming from the same poster who opened the "tank this" threads. Again showing no argumentative consistency other than agenda driven one.
So, Weeden comes cold off the bench and pilots the team to a come from behind victory, exactly what the soapboax preachers demanded and does not turn the ball over and let go of the ball within 3secs on the game winning scoring drives...hmm, let's see, where can we direct our hate towards: yeah, there it is..what about those other throws he didn't complete or where he took a sack because he didn't throw it away and everyone was covered (as shown multiple times in replays). As ugly as booing him early in the game....but then again, it probably were the same people writing this kind of stuff in here and going all double standard or forgot what they wrote just a couple of days ago.
With Hoyer it was exactly the other way around. Everybody concentrated on the good throws and totally forgot about the wtf throws that stalled drives (yeah, those happened too, what about the 3rd down pass on the 1st drive? or all those 2nd/3rd Qtr throws vs Cincy?) or led to TOs. The bottom line stats show two similar efficient QBs, but since that "argument" doesn't fly anymore, it's all about style points, lol.
Whatever happened to consistency and having a backbone nowadays? Out the window I guess..."he made a couple of nice throws" was the biggest endorsement I read post-game from some posters. Some same plays by Hoyer would have been worth a novel with frame by frame pictures and commentary of their trajectory 
Keep in mind, that I'm not arguing that one QB is much better than the other short term (we can argue about ceiling/upside all day, but it's all opinion), just think it's incredibly hypocritical to argue that Hoyer is clearly better than Weeden, that's more perception, agenda and like-ability/background stories (Browns fan vs hated "old" 1st round pick) than anything else.
Believe whatever you want, but at least be consistent and honest arguing about it, as even that has been thrown away in this "debate".
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 Likes: 3
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
--I think this team could have contended for the division w/Hoyer. I agree w/the posters who said they feel deflated because Hoyer was injured. I feel the same way and I just don't have any confidence in Weeden. Hopefully, he proves me wrong
I still think things are the same, and different at the same time.
Going into the season I had hoped we would be like the old Raiders, run run run then hit you over the top when you moved up to stop the run. That didn't pan out because TBDD was a bust.
So along comes Hoyer and his play was hopeful we had finally hit on a QB that would get rid of the ball and sustain drives via the air, but then he got hurt and we HAD TO move back to Weedon.
But the truth is we didn't win just because of Hoyer he made it easier for us to win but we didn't win because he hoisted the team up on his shoulders and carried us it didn't happen that way at all. In fact his TO in the Vikings game kept them in the game.
The aggressive make-up of the coaching staff and defense carried the team. I don't see anyone labeling that game as anything but a team win. Then we come to the Cincy game again a team win, the defense coupled with some nice offensive drives won that game.
But the constant has been the defense and their outstanding play that has us where we are.
I agree whole heartedly Hoyer made it much easier for us to win, at least in the Cincy game but it was aggressiveness and defense that has carried this team so far this season.
We have to re-tool because Hoyer is gone and we have to work harder to win but the goal hasn't changed, win. This team isn't quitting, and that was front and center in the Bills game.
The way I see it now we can cry and whine or we can put our heads down and work harder and continue to win. The one thing we need form the QB position is to limit their mistakes, period the defense will take care of the rest.
My expectations for this season remain in tact. Win and I think we will regardless of who the QB is and the reason I say that is because we really haven't won a single game because of the QB play so far. They have contributed to winning but they haven't carried the team, the defense has done that and that hasn't change a bit...
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Quote:
Quoted for comedy.
Thank you, Oh Objective One. 
It's gotten to the point that I can't even read through your posts. Keep banging away, though. 
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