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LINKCleveland Browns safety and potential free agent T.J. Ward: 'I definitely want to be here' By Tom Reed, Northeast Ohio Media Group October 31, 2013 at 2:51 AM BEREA, Ohio – T.J. Ward believes good times are in the near future for the Browns and he wants to be part of them. The strong safety, in the final season of a four-year, $5.088 million deal, said he prefers to remain in the organization that drafted him in 2010. Ward and center Alex Mack are the team’s biggest potential free agents. “I definitely want to be here,” Ward told cleveland.com. “If I could stay here my whole career that would be great, but I understand it’s a business.” He said his representatives have not had detailed discussions with Browns management. “I do think about it, but I wouldn’t say I’m worried,” Ward said. “You always think about your future. I’m just trying to focus on finishing the season off strong.” Ward is the second-highest ranked safety behind New England’s Devin McCourty, according to ProFootballFocus.com, and tops against the run. One league talent evaluator told cleveland.com that Ward is a top-five safety in the AFC, and rates him better against the run than in pass coverage. In a passing league, however, the evaluator is interested to see how Browns’ management weighs that factor. The Oregon product is second on the Browns with 65 tackles and tied for the lead with two interceptions. He ranks third on the team in missed tackles with eight, according to ProFootballFocus.com. “I think he brings a real attitude to our defense,” coach Rob Chudzinski said. “He’s tough, he plays tough. ... That’s what you need to do on defense. He’s learned the system and really stepped into a leadership role in terms of on the back end and understanding what to do, getting guys lined up and doing all of the things you would want a safety to do.” Despite the Browns’ 3-5 record and no winning seasons since 2007, Ward sees hope for the coming years. “I’ve been here through the bad times, I just want to see the good times,” Ward said. “I know they’re coming and we have a good team. The future is bright here. ... Everyone wants longevity and success and I want to get them here. I think that’s coming here and I want to be a part of it.”
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We will definitely learn our FO's opinions on our "previous" core players ... Ward/Mack/Haden especially.
It will be interesting. If I had to guess: we'll resign Haden and Ward and let Mack go, which would shift Greco to C (hence why we resigned him)
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Will be ticked if we lose Mack . . .
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I can't remember a time where guys were actually still on the team at the end of their rookie contracts LOL. Ward has been much more impressive this season against the pass. I'd like to resign both.
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Alex Mack was one of the guys they deemed untouchable after they traded Richardson (along with Joe Thomas). So I am assuming they would like him back.
I would think that we try and re-sign both. If not both then re-sign one and slap the franchise tag on the other.
I was unaware we were allowed to use our franchise tag on players other than kickers. That is allowed?
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we'll resign Haden and Ward and let Mack go
Why? I know we haven't had a ton of above average players around here, but I will never understand some people's fascination with letting a good player go so we can create a hole so we can hope to fill it some other way.
yebat' Putin
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Thinking the team will do something is different than wanting them to do something.
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Just clicking
Last off season, I remember reading some posters on here, or some radio talk show callers saying that the team was making mistakes not spending the money they had to get some solid Free Agents..
Look at the situation now. we have a ton of money to pay for our own guys to keep the core group together.
The money to take care of our own is there.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
we'll resign Haden and Ward and let Mack go
Why? I know we haven't had a ton of above average players around here, but I will never understand some people's fascination with letting a good player go so we can create a hole so we can hope to fill it some other way.
I never said that was was I wanted to do, I'm just taking a guess as to what the FO will do. If it were up to me, I'd re-sign all 3 because we can't create any more holes ... but IMO, I think the FO signed Greco with a plan in place.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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the fo is going to re-sign FO, ward has given them no reason not to. he is an essential part of our core, and a lot of experts with good analysis have have as a top 5/10 safety.
the FO knows that, the coaches know that. the national media knows that.
but of course, we got fans who yet again, want to get rid of good players for hopes in dreams.
makes absolutely no sense.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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The national media "knows" it, huh?  Here is how I look at those three guys: It's a big year for all three.They must play well to get a decent offer. Thus far, I think all three have. Ward: I think he is very good against the run, although he lowers his head and whiffs at times when he is trying to tackle in space. But, he has made a lot of big tackles behind or at the LOS this year. His pass coverage in general is below average. He sometimes blows coverages so bad that most people don't even realize it is him blowing it and blame the closest guy. I do know zone coverages and I know he has been out of position too many times. With that said, I think he is a very solid player w/the potential to get even better. I think the FO makes a legit effort to retain Ward, but will balk if Ward's contract demands are too high, as in---he wants to be paid as one of the top safeties in the league. Haden: This is a huge year for him. I know people have loved this guy from day one, but he has been a "bit" of a disappointment, until this year. I love how he has stepped up his game and is finally covering the other team's #1 WR on the majority of plays. I don't think he is a true shutdown guy, but he is a very good player. Again, I think we try to resign this guy. We may even give him a really lucrative contract, but will back-off he wants to be paid as a top 3 corner. Mack: A solid player. Keeps his mouth shut and shows up every week. Solid center that we retain unless he wants to be paid as a top 3 or 4 guy. We could move Grecco there if we have to, but I suspect we hope to keep Mack.
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Quote:
The national media "knows" it, huh?
Here is how I look at those three guys:
It's a big year for all three.They must play well to get a decent offer. Thus far, I think all three have.
Ward: I think he is very good against the run, although he lowers his head and whiffs at times when he is trying to tackle in space. But, he has made a lot of big tackles behind or at the LOS this year. His pass coverage in general is below average. He sometimes blows coverages so bad that most people don't even realize it is him blowing it and blame the closest guy. I do know zone coverages and I know he has been out of position too many times. With that said, I think he is a very solid player w/the potential to get even better. I think the FO makes a legit effort to retain Ward, but will balk if Ward's contract demands are too high, as in---he wants to be paid as one of the top safeties in the league.
Haden: This is a huge year for him. I know people have loved this guy from day one, but he has been a "bit" of a disappointment, until this year. I love how he has stepped up his game and is finally covering the other team's #1 WR on the majority of plays. I don't think he is a true shutdown guy, but he is a very good player. Again, I think we try to resign this guy. We may even give him a really lucrative contract, but will back-off he wants to be paid as a top 3 corner.
Mack: A solid player. Keeps his mouth shut and shows up every week. Solid center that we retain unless he wants to be paid as a top 3 or 4 guy. We could move Grecco there if we have to, but I suspect we hope to keep Mack.
they do, and are more often correct than anybody on this board. including you.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Haden isn't a top guy yet. For one thing, he simply does not create turnovers. He sometimes gets in position to make a turnover, but cannot catch the ball. To be an elite guy, he has to start creating turnovers.
That said, he is very good. I look at a guy many wanted us to draft, Dee Milliner, and he is an absolute mess. He allowed something like 5 pass completions for well over 100 yards last week. I read something about him being benched again.
He's going to start against the Saints. That should be interesting to see.
Anyway, back to Haden, I think that he is a very good corner, but I don't yet see elite. He sure looks better than another high draft pick like Milliner has looked so far though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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they do, and are more often correct than anybody on this board. including you.
Prove it, mouth!
I will start the process:
I said TRich was solid. I said he was not explosive. I said he lacked instincts, decisiveness. and vision. The national media said he was the best back since AP. Who was right?
I said Weeden should have been a 4th round pick. I said he couldn't read coverages. I said he was inaccurate after being pressured. I said spread qbs have a hard time transitioning to the NFL. I said that Shurmur's lame offense was not the real reason why Weeden stunk and that Weeds would not flourish under Norv. The national media disagreed.
Now, what say you, Mouth?
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Hey, Miliner was my number one guy for us to take. He isn't playing well.
It appears I was wrong.
See how easy that is, guys? You are wrong and you admit it. Care to try it.
Oh, and YTown.............I am not talking to you, so don't lay an egg.
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Haden isn't a top guy yet. For one thing, he simply does not create turnovers. He sometimes gets in position to make a turnover, but cannot catch the ball. To be an elite guy, he has to start creating turnovers.
That said, he is very good. I look at a guy many wanted us to draft, Dee Milliner, and he is an absolute mess. He allowed something like 5 pass completions for well over 100 yards last week. I read something about him being benched again.
He's going to start against the Saints. That should be interesting to see.
Anyway, back to Haden, I think that he is a very good corner, but I don't yet see elite. He sure looks better than another high draft pick like Milliner has looked so far though.
Has Revis or Nmandi ever been a ball hawk?
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It is hard to get interceptions when the ball is not thrown your direction.
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~ Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Haden isn't a top guy yet. For one thing, he simply does not create turnovers. He sometimes gets in position to make a turnover, but cannot catch the ball. To be an elite guy, he has to start creating turnovers.
That said, he is very good. I look at a guy many wanted us to draft, Dee Milliner, and he is an absolute mess. He allowed something like 5 pass completions for well over 100 yards last week. I read something about him being benched again.
He's going to start against the Saints. That should be interesting to see.
Anyway, back to Haden, I think that he is a very good corner, but I don't yet see elite. He sure looks better than another high draft pick like Milliner has looked so far though.
Has Revis or Nmandi ever been a ball hawk?
Yep, I'd rather have a guy like Haden who can shut down your best WR the entire game then someone akin to Alterraun Verner who can get turnovers, but won't shut down an AJ Green or a Calvin Johnson.
Last edited by CHSDawg; 11/02/13 12:54 AM.
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I think that both of our starting CBs, Haden and Skrine, have played well this year ..... but I still feel that they need to create more turnovers to be considered elite.
Teams do throw at Haden. It's not like they look at him and say "Oh no, we can't throw over there". He has done well, make no mistake .... but to be elite, he needs to start getting some turnovers when the opportunities present themselves.
Edit: Before anyone says anything, I am not saying that Shrine is playing at the same level as Haden.
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 11/02/13 01:43 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Frankly I just rely on those advanced football statistics websites to tell me how good a Browns player is. I can't be completely objective on my own.
I think Haden is a very dominant shutdown CB. But he doesn't produce the amount of turnovers you would expect from a HOF type player. I think he is probably a top corner in the league today, but maybe not top 10 of the decade if that makes sense.
I don't know if I was spoiled by Anthony Henry, but I get disappointed when guys aren't grabbing 10 INTs a season.
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I look at a guy like Revis, who shut down everyone to the extent that teams threw away from him, yet he still managed something like 18 INT in his 1st 5 seasons. Even with team worried about throwing in his direction, he still created turnovers.
I have watched Haden drop interceptions that hit him right in the hands, and I understand the axiom that if a CB could catch he's be a receiver ...... however, those turnovers are the difference between a defense being a good defense, and a great one .... and a CB being a very good one, and a great one.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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See how easy that is, guys? You are wrong and you admit it. Care to try it.
OK, I'll give it a go. Let's see: Being human, I'm not perfect therefore I can't always be right. However, in the absence of "mis-statements", I can conclude that I haven't been wrong. Oh well, I did try... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
they do, and are more often correct than anybody on this board. including you.
Prove it, mouth!
I will start the process:
I said TRich was solid. I said he was not explosive. I said he lacked instincts, decisiveness. and vision. The national media said he was the best back since AP. Who was right?
I said Weeden should have been a 4th round pick. I said he couldn't read coverages. I said he was inaccurate after being pressured. I said spread qbs have a hard time transitioning to the NFL. I said that Shurmur's lame offense was not the real reason why Weeden stunk and that Weeds would not flourish under Norv. The national media disagreed.
Now, what say you, Mouth?
haden. thats was a big one, all the media was giving him credit these years except for you.
now he's ranked as a top 5/10 CB. whoops.
now ward.
and the big one of all, your boy mangini. that espn job must be awesome? to coach for other team cause he's such a great HC....oh wait.
your move, mouth.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Ytown,
can't really agree with that.
wanna know why revis and haden's int numbers are always low?
because Qb's don't throw it in their direction.
shutdown.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Haden? I argued that he wasn't a top 3 cb or a shut-down corner for a few years. And he wasn't. He was challenged by Horton to step-up his game this year. He has stepped-up. You have no argument.
Ward? I never said he stinks. I said that his coverage ability isn't very good. I will stand by that.
Mangini? He isn't even a player. Pull another one out of your butt.
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right right.
and who said it had to be just players?
that mangini firing still burns huh?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Edit: Before anyone says anything, I am not saying that Shrine is playing at the same level as Haden.
I'm not saying this either. I love joe. He is top 7anywhy ya look at it. To be elite he has to keep the off hand from around the waist of wr. His rep helps him with that call. It's joe and it looks great when he is slapping the ball down with the other hand. He can be shutdown, but man he has those games sometimes where I'm like wth joe! If he would look back once in a while he WOULD get those picks. For some reason our cb think when beat a little, throw your hands up and pray. He is great. Possible pro bowler but just not elite.
Buster? Man I have been his worse critic past 2 years. But he has been player past 3-4 games. When he don't panic when beat he is pretty good. Hitter too. Joe can tackle, but buster is a better tackler.
If someone watched the browns and knew nothing about the browns or any player. Buster would get a little more respect. That being said. Buster needs to show that a little more for me to say he is as good as joe obviously. But he has been playing a lot better. Lot of talent, needs that confidence joe thinks joe has.
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Quote:
Haden? I argued that he wasn't a top 3 cb or a shut-down corner for a few years. And he wasn't. He was challenged by Horton to step-up his game this year. He has stepped-up. You have no argument.
Ward? I never said he stinks. I said that his coverage ability isn't very good. I will stand by that.
Mangini? He isn't even a player. Pull another one out of your butt.
I I I I I,, That's all we ever hear from you,, I did this, I said that... Who the hell cares.. You ain't a guru.. Just another fan like me me me.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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My point is that Revis got his INTs, even being "Revis Island". He has had 18 INT in the past 5 years.
Haden has not. He started off strong in his rookie year turning the ball over, then not so much since. He had 6 INT as a rookie, and has 3 since. Revis has been somewhat consistent in getting INTs, even as the best CB in the NFL. I don't think that people throw away from Haden more than they did Revis. He still gets his opportunities.
I look at a guy like Richard Sherman, and he might be the best CB in the NFL ..... and he gets his INTs. He has 16 in 3 years. He also has a ton of passes broken up. Teams still throw against the whole field in today's NFL.
I am NOT saying that Haden isn't having a very, very good year. He is. However, he still has opportunities for turnovers, and he has to make the most when he gets them. I know that I am comparing him to some of the best in the NFL, but that's the point. I think that Haden could be one of the very best in the NFL, but he has to complete those turnovers instead of just breaking up passes when he has an opportunity to do so.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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In one way Haden is very-much like Antoine Winfield was, which is to say they were both excellent cornerbacks who had hands of stone, though nobody I've ever seen tackled like Winfield from the CB position.
This isn't going to be backed up with any data because it isn't that important, but I remember numerous times when Haden had not one but both hands on the football...and dropped it. If he had the hands of some of the truly elite corners in the NFL his INT numbers would be doubled.
Just my opinion, but I feel Joe Haden probably would rank in the 10-15 range in the NFL, give or take. He does a masterful job of using his hands to grab, pull, and manipulate receivers in a way that allows him not to get too many flags thrown on him. Too many fans see that stuff and get upset at him, but the reality is there's an art to that, and it's taught. Despite not having great speed...I didn't put any stock into his pro-day numbers...Haden shows good recovery and change of direction ability, and he has very solid instincts, which was a question coming out. He isn't afraid to get physical, which is something I probably overvalue. Call it a personal quirk because I don't like wussy DB's. As noted, his hands absolutely stink which devalues him greatly.
I happen to think fans are way too critical of Haden, as they want to compare him to some perceived hype, so it becomes not enough that he's a very good CB.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I happen to think fans are way too critical of Haden, as they want to compare him to some perceived hype, so it becomes not enough that he's a very good CB.
He was drafted 7th overall, so yes, I do have higher expectations for him than I would a guy who was drafted in the mid to late rounds.
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Toad, I think the truth lies somewhere between you and YTown.
Haden does not have stone hands. That's a myth. But he does not create turnovers either. But it's not because he can't catch.
Haden is a very good cover guy but he's always a half step behind the play. That's enough to make sure his guy doesn't do a lot of damage but it's not enough to create turnovers. He plays with zero anticipation. It's reactionary. He doesn't jump routes. He never makes a play that screams 'film study'. He plays somewhere between aggresive amd safe football. I think he's been in position to have one pick this year. That one he did drop. But he's mostly never in position to have picks. He's always that half step behind that allows him to maybe get a deflection but not be in position to take the ball away.
He's a maddening player to me. I think the FO is going to have a really difficult decision to make on him. And I would bet you any amount of money the FO doesn't consider him elite or 'shutdown'. Just a hunch.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Well thanks for the acute preparation for the future by Heckert and the wisdom of Banner/Lombardi to not OVERSPEND - we at least have the option to sign our players to their 2nd contract. Ward n Mack probably the most important right now...but we also have Haden n Sheard soon coming up. This is where Banner is suppose to be one of the BEST in the NFL. In Banner we must trust!
JMHO 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
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I would like for Ward and Mack to get their contracts here. More so Mack if I had to pick one of them.
If we could address people like Haden's contract in advance, then that would be perfect too. Lots of discussion about Haden, but would you rather give up plays or see bat downs instead of interceptions? You can't question his attitude and fire that the kid plays with and his upside is still high. I wouldn't say "top three" yet, but he's up there with the best of them and I expect him to be top three corner EXTREMELY soon. When that happens, I don't want it to be contract year when all the team's start to have a little more drool coming out their mouths to have him. When that happens, I'd rather him already have a contract passed 2015 here in Cleveland!!!!!!!!!!!
He sticks his nose in on the run games too. It's a shame he's so good and Horton rarely ever wants to waste his skills on a blitz assignment, cause I'd like to see him get to the QB a few times!!!!!!
Just my two cents.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,783
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,783 |
Big difference between hope and trust tab.  I do hope though! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
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I happen to think fans are way too critical of Haden, as they want to compare him to some perceived hype, so it becomes not enough that he's a very good CB.
He was drafted 7th overall, so yes, I do have higher expectations for him than I would a guy who was drafted in the mid to late rounds.
Not sure where "mid to late rounds" comes into the equation as it pertains to my post. Perhaps you're referencing a previous post by someone else.
I believe the vast majority of teams who take a corner where we drafted him and have gotten the production from Haden that we've had would be quite satisfied, the idiotic drug ban notwithstanding, though I believe we're specifically talking about his talent and production on the field only.
Trying to rank CB's in next to impossible as some of it is anecdotal evidence, but when ESPN's SportsNation put up a nationwide poll of the the top CB's in the league, where Haden is one of the 12 listed, and he gets ranked 6th out of the 12 with more than 17,500 votes cast, that's a pretty solid indicator that he's widely accepted as one of the better cornerbacks in the NFL in the eyes of fans.
Now, that's just fan-speak and less definitive. Something from Profootballfocus is more definitive. While that site misses the mark in their statistical analysis sometimes due to not factoring in non-quantifiable factors such as strength of opponent and home field advantage when it comes to other categories, I happen to believe that this statement from them speaks volumes to just how good Joe Haden is:
web page
Joe Haden, CB (7th overall pick in 2010): One of the better man coverage corners in the league, Haden rarely gets the praise he’s due with a lack of interceptions not capturing hearts and minds. However, his +30.0 coverage grade in three years should show just how good a player he has been.
I'm not going to fill this up with links to various sites and references, but there's another which states PFF ranks Haden as the 14th best in the country. That's about where I'd put him, as his hands drop him down for me.
I'm not stating that Haden has been robbed by not going to any pro-bowls, only that he's a very good cornerback. He's never had the benefit of a defensive that gets consistent pressure on the opposing QB and that extra second makes all the difference in the world if you're not an elite CB. He's dropped far too many footballs that he could have picked off as well. Still, I believe we've received very good value for our selection.
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Rishuz-
I think the FO is going to have a really difficult decision to make on him. And I would bet you any amount of money the FO doesn't consider him elite or 'shutdown'. Just a hunch.
My feeling is that they'll make him a priority. Teams just don't let very good, young cornerbacks walk away.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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My feeling is that they'll make him a priority. Teams just don't let very good, young cornerbacks walk away.
Right, they trade them for a first round pick and another (conditional 4th - could be a 3rd). See Darrelle Revis trade. This was after he suffered a torn ACL. Haden doesn't become a free agent until after next season.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
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I happen to think fans are way too critical of Haden, as they want to compare him to some perceived hype, so it becomes not enough that he's a very good CB.
He was drafted 7th overall, so yes, I do have higher expectations for him than I would a guy who was drafted in the mid to late rounds.
Not sure where "mid to late rounds" comes into the equation as it pertains to my post.
It's pretty simple. I expect more from the 7th overall pick than I do from a guy like Skrine. He was a bigger investment. I expect bigger results. Not everyone thinks that way, but I do. I was simply responding to your comment about being it not being good enough to be just a good cb. I expect him to be elite.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,470
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,470 |
i think he was pretty elite today
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
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i think he was pretty elite today
He's been extremely elite every game so far. People just want more and more. Complete shut down corners are not enough for people these days, they want a shut down corner who can also make interceptions.
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