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From the QBs on the roster, i think the healthy depth chart has to be Campbell, Hoyer, Weeden.
From a salary cap standpoint, it has to be Campbell, Hoyer, _______.
Havent read through the thread, but those enamored with Hoyer still, if they exist, i think are silly. Hoyer did a decent job when he came in, for sure, but we've seen Campbell come in with the same supporting cast, against better defenses (hoyer played injured defenses), and put up even better numbers.
Sample size is obviously small, for both, but i feel like Hoyer got a ton of hype because he was being contrasted to Weeden. Notice, Hoyer during game 3 and 4, put up a lower QB rating than Weeden did in games 5 and 6-- if you can believe it.
Is campbell the real deal? I have no idea yet, its only been 2 games. But i think he is more promising than Hoyer, at this point, because he's done more with the same talent, and while he is 31-32 yrs old, hoyer will be 29-30(?) next season coming off an ACL injury.
I'd still like a QB next draft, but personally i'd like to see us bolster the offense for whomever is throwing, then draft a QB in the 2nd round or below. Get me a WR and possibly another big TE threat (would love to see cameron and another equal talent in a 2 TE set). I'd also like to see that TE block as well as he catches, our run game needs it.
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From a salary cap standpoint, with Weeden having a largely guaranteed contract for the next 2 years, I suspect that he might be one of the 3 QB next year. We have to pay him anyway, so strictly from a cap standpoint, we would keep him. That said, it is possible (and likely, IMHO) that the Browns may tell Weeden that he can stay with them as their 3rd string QB, or take a cut in his guarantee and be released to find work elsewhere. I suspect that Weeden would take a cut rather than spend the rest of his career buried at #3 on our depth chart.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't know YTown.
Sometimes a team feels that keeping a former #1 QB around when he really isn't any good is bad for the team as a whole. Many times teams let players go and pay the cap hit off.
I mean from a playing standpoint, if you draft a QB high in this draft, for the sake of the team, do you keep Weeden over Hoyer or Campbell?
As we've seen with the QB injuries this year, not only here but elsewhere, paying Weeden to stay, may mean the difference between W's and L's when we have better options at the position.
Salary cap implications verses W's and L's? Keeping better players rather than a poorer player?
I'm not so sure I'd agree with you there.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Oh I agree. However, strictly from a cap standpoint, as the post I replied to was framed, they would keep Weeden.
I don't think that this front office does things strictly from that perspective though. They will, however, do what they can to manage the cap as best they can. If that means running a bluff on one of their players with a big guarantee, then so be it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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With cap numbers as small as they are for a rookie contract, I don't see the guys in this FO being overtly concerned about it being a complete determining factor. If they feel that they can get someone else to be a better 3rd QB, I think they'll do it.
The flip side of that is, I don't think you'll find a better 3rd QB than Weeden. He's not so great as a starter, but as relatively inexpensive depth he isn't too bad.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I just looked up Weeden's contract, and $920,000 of his $1.1 million contract for next year is guaranteed, and is seems that nothing of his 2015 salary of $1.492 million is.
It's a minimal amount in the larger scheme of things, but Banner doesn't seem to let these things slip if he doesn't have to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/brandon-weeden/$7.511 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus + 2012-14 base + $920k of 2015 base) Code:
YEAR BASE S. BONUS MISC. CAP HIT DEAD
2012 390,000 1,079,745 - 1,469,745 7,511,288
2013 757,436 1,079,745 - 1,837,181 6,041,543
2014 1,124,000 1,079,745 - 2,203,745 4,204,362
2015 1,492,000 1,079,745 - 2,571,745 1,999,745
The dead money is what he counts against the cap if he is cut.
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Quote:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/brandon-weeden/
$7.511 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus + 2012-14 base + $920k of 2015 base)
Code:
YEAR BASE S. BONUS MISC. CAP HIT DEAD
2012 390,000 1,079,745 - 1,469,745 7,511,288
2013 757,436 1,079,745 - 1,837,181 6,041,543
2014 1,124,000 1,079,745 - 2,203,745 4,204,362
2015 1,492,000 1,079,745 - 2,571,745 1,999,745
The dead money is what he counts against the cap if he is cut.
That's why I think that Banner will work him to reduce that guarantee. (Unless they can trade him with his contract as is)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/C Ytown. Thought this belonged here: web page Cleveland Browns still thinking quarterback in draft? By Marc Sessler Around the League Writer Earlier this week, we pinned the Cleveland Browns as one of the teams destined to pick a quarterback in May's draft. With a pair of first-round picks, the Browns have the firepower to wheel and deal for a signal-caller of their choice. But will they? A Football Life The evolution of the forward pass -- arguably the most significant rule change in the history of American sport -- over nearly a century of football is chronicled on NFL Network on Tuesday, Nov. 19 at 9 p.m. ET. » 10 things that changed the game » Video: 'A Football Life' » NFL Network schedule Next week's episode: » Nov. 26: Steve Gleason Brandon Weeden has melted away, but the handiwork of Brian Hoyer -- before his season-ending knee injury -- brought life to Cleveland's offense. Of late, the team has received strong play from Jason Campbell, too, giving team CEO Joe Banner plenty to ponder in the offseason. "I think we're going to have to get to the end of the season and see exactly where we are," Banner said, per Mary Kay Cabot of The Plain Dealer. "Our commitment to the draft is to try and pick (up) the best players we can as opposed to trying to force anything at any positions. So I think we've got a lot left to learn as the season goes on in terms of finding what we want to do and where the strengths of the draft are." Banner wouldn't comment on Weeden's fate, and he doesn't need to. The front office inherited him, and the 30-year-old passer has played himself right out of the job. In the meantime, Cleveland has scattered scouts nationwide to analyze a draft class that's considered one of the deepest in years. Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater, Clemson's Tajh Boyd, Oregon's Marcus Mariota, Fresno State's Derek Carr, Alabama's AJ McCarron and Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel have been the subject of scouting voyages, according to the newspaper. With a stingy defense and legitimate weapons in pass-catchers Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron, Cleveland still is alive in the AFC North. Cleveland can be viewed as a team that's essentially a quarterback away from contention. It's not Weeden. It's probably not Campbell. It might be Hoyer -- but we still see the Browns as heavy favorites to draft their passer of the future. "We're going to be very, very prepared when we get to April and May," Banner said. "We're going to be very, very prepared."
And the next head coach is ......
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the NFLPA will not allow a player to reduce any guaranteed monies. and they shouldn't.
sometimes, teams will spread out the guarantees over more years, but we want less years of Weeden, not more. he'll likely be cut, but his salary is within the realm of QB2's (the guarantees are on us), so he is tradeable if someone wants him (hey, we traded Quinn!!!).
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/brandon-weeden/
$7.511 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus + 2012-14 base + $920k of 2015 base)
Code:
YEAR BASE S. BONUS MISC. CAP HIT DEAD
2012 390,000 1,079,745 - 1,469,745 7,511,288
2013 757,436 1,079,745 - 1,837,181 6,041,543
2014 1,124,000 1,079,745 - 2,203,745 4,204,362
2015 1,492,000 1,079,745 - 2,571,745 1,999,745
The dead money is what he counts against the cap if he is cut.
That's why I think that Banner will work him to reduce that guarantee. (Unless they can trade him with his contract as is)
Or put something in his Gatorade so that he fails drug tests so they can release him with cause.
Just kidding.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/brandon-weeden/
$7.511 million guaranteed (Signing Bonus + 2012-14 base + $920k of 2015 base)
Code:
YEAR BASE S. BONUS MISC. CAP HIT DEAD
2012 390,000 1,079,745 - 1,469,745 7,511,288
2013 757,436 1,079,745 - 1,837,181 6,041,543
2014 1,124,000 1,079,745 - 2,203,745 4,204,362
2015 1,492,000 1,079,745 - 2,571,745 1,999,745
The dead money is what he counts against the cap if he is cut.
That's why I think that Banner will work him to reduce that guarantee. (Unless they can trade him with his contract as is)
Or put something in his Gatorade so that he fails drug tests so they can release him with cause.
Just kidding.
So if I understand correctly, if we cut him at the end of the season, we get hit with a 7 million CAP Hit?
Assuming that's the case, which is better, take the hit and keep him on the team wasting a roster spot that might be filled with some that can do a job for us.
Or, Cut him, take the hit and move on?
Hey, if you aren't going to play him and you still have to pay him, might as well just say good bye
Best case is if you can get him to lower his contract to effect a trade.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No, if we cut him, we take a $4.8 million cap hit (for 2014 & 2015) and have to pay him the $4.2 million that he is guaranteed for the remainder of his contract.
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Quote:
... take the hit and keep him on the team wasting a roster spot that might be filled with some that can do a job for us..
If we keep Weeden on the roster, then it is not likely that we draft a QB. I just don't see this happening, so I would expect Weeden is gone and we take the hit...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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No, if we cut him, we take a $4.8 million cap hit (for 2014 & 2015) and have to pay him the $4.2 million that he is guaranteed for the remainder of his contract.
Then if they don't want him on the team and they can't trade him, take the hit, move on. it's not pleasant, it's not perfect and it sucks in general. But I'd rather have the roster spot.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
... take the hit and keep him on the team wasting a roster spot that might be filled with some that can do a job for us..
If we keep Weeden on the roster, then it is not likely that we draft a QB. I just don't see this happening, so I would expect Weeden is gone and we take the hit...
I don't think it matters.. If they see someone they want, they'll draft him. A bigger problem is, WHO? I'm not excited by anyone.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C ...... While I don't think that it's likely, it is possible that the browns find that they don't like any QB they could expect to be able to draft enough to pay the price he would require, and/or they like the QBs they have enough to go forward with the status quo next year, while using our draft picks to enhance the rest of the team.
I truly could see us going into next year with our QBs being:
Campbell
Hoyer
Weeden
Or ....
Hoyer
Campbell
Weeden
I could also see us with:
Campbell or Hoyer
Weeden
Rookie
Campbell or Hoyer
The Loser of the battle for the starting job
Rookie
Right now it is just so damn hard to see which path the team will take. There are a ton of possibilities.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It really depends on a lot of factors but if I had to make a prediction right now I would say Campbell, Hoyer, and a rookie.
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Lots of factors... 1 being Hoyer is able to fully recover from that horrible ACL injury. Another being that Campbell is able to survive the rest of the season (QBs are dropping like flies) and/or continues to play well. Truthfully, I could see a scenario (admittedly pessimistic) where neither Hoyer or Campbell are around next year. Really need to let the season play out and see how our guys are doing.
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I think we cut him, no way we can carry the 4th (if we draft a QB) best QB on our roster regardless of cap hit.
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I think we cut him, no way we can carry the 4th (if we draft a QB) best QB on our roster regardless of cap hit.
I agree. We have an estimated $37MM in free cap space next year. $123MM Est Cap (if flat) - $92MM (salaries) - $7MM (dead money, mostly TR) +13MM (Cap carryover from this year).
They've already shown they're not afraid to eat dead money to move dead wood: taking a $4MM cap hit for dropping Frostee Rucker this year and $3,490,703 in 2013 and $6,670,500 in 2014 for Trent Richardson.
Assuming they want to keep Hoyer and Campbell (and I've seen no reason why they wouldn't) I don't see how they keep Weeden on the roster next year to save $2MM against the cap. Barring some really odd circumstances, Weeden is off the roster shortly after the season is over.
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Quote:
It really depends on a lot of factors but if I had to make a prediction right now I would say Campbell, Hoyer, and a rookie.
Seems like the most likely scenario.
And the next head coach is ......
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Quote:
Quote:
It really depends on a lot of factors but if I had to make a prediction right now I would say Campbell, Hoyer, and a rookie.
Seems like the most likely scenario.
That would seem most likely to me as well. (Unless someone offers us a high draft pick for one of them based on their play this year, which I do not believe will happen)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
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It really depends on a lot of factors but if I had to make a prediction right now I would say Campbell, Hoyer, and a rookie.
Seems like the most likely scenario.
That would seem most likely to me as well. (Unless someone offers us a high draft pick for one of them based on their play this year, which I do not believe will happen)
I don't think anyone would make an offer of a high enough pick to make me trade either of them at this point. Both have shown ability and we've been starved for it for so long. It would be nice to have abundance for a change 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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What I think is that we'll carry Weeden as long as possible, if nothing else, he'd be an extra arm in camp and hey, who knows... the light might still go on.
Then, I think that camp will be yet another QB competition between Hoyer and Campbell to see who starts, and then whomever the Rookie is that we draft, he'll sit buried on the depth chart behind those two.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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From a salary cap standpoint, with Weeden having a largely guaranteed contract for the next 2 years, I suspect that he might be one of the 3 QB next year.
I would bet a dollar against twenty that he's not on the roster next year, and that's being conservative because I would hate to take a $20 from a fellow human being. 
While it's only a slight bit of hyperbole on my part, I'm confident in saying that Brandon Weeden will never again take a snap in a Browns uniform after this season ends.
The faster this regime gets away from the failings of the previous regime the better everyone will feel for more than just one reason.
Besides, from a personal level I'd like nothing more to be a fly on the wall of the Walrus at the very moment when he sees his 1st round QB kicked to the curb after being an utter failure.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Havent read through the thread, but those enamored with Hoyer still, if they exist, i think are silly. Hoyer did a decent job when he came in, for sure, but we've seen Campbell come in with the same supporting cast, against better defenses (hoyer played injured defenses), and put up even better numbers.
Not sure why, but comments like the above annoy the heck out of me. Silly? Really?
Not everyone uses numbers as the only measuring guide when evaluating players. Some pay attention to when guys make plays. Whether or not they make plays out of nothing. How the team responds to them. How the entire team performs. Whether or not they avoid sacks. Do they keep their eyes downfield. How accurate they are. Etc, etc.
It is certainly not all about numbers. And no one is is silly because they think Hoyer has a chance to be the starter.
I think [but do not know] that we draft a rookie. I think he sits behind both Hoyer and Campbell. I think Weeden is gone. I think that Hoyer and Campbell will be given an equal shot of winning the job during the camps and preseason.
I don't think anyone is silly for believing Hoyer wins the battle.
I don't think anyone is silly for believing JC wins the battle.
I don't even think anyone is silly for saying Weeden might be on the roster.
I don't think anyone is silly for saying the Browns will turn the team over to the rookie, especially if we trade both first round picks and maybe more to move up and draft Bridgewater.
I think the FO and coaching staff has a lot of evaluating to do. I think it is going to be very tough because it is so hard to project how most of these collegiate qbs will transition to the NFL. I think it is also a bit hard to say if Hoyer and/or Campbell will continue to have success as a starter. Lot's of ifs. I just hope the powers that be get it right.
And I think it is more than annoying to call anyone silly for having a positive opinion about either Hoyer or Campbell.
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I don't think it's silly, but it's probably a bit premature. We'll at least have a better picture of Campbell in a Browns uniform by the end of the season.
For now, I'm liking Campbell a little bit better because he's definitely faced the tougher competition. Hoyer beat Cinci, but they were down a couple corners. Campbell played well against KC, which is impressive.
In the end, they both seem to be, at least, competent. As long as that holds true for both, I think it's a wash. Campbell might be a little more successful right now, but Hoyer could have a little higher ceiling.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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i mean enamored with, not some one who saw flashes from the guy. There were people acting like he was our new bernie.
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Quote:
Quote:
From a salary cap standpoint, with Weeden having a largely guaranteed contract for the next 2 years, I suspect that he might be one of the 3 QB next year.
I would bet a dollar against twenty that he's not on the roster next year, and that's being conservative because I would hate to take a $20 from a fellow human being.
While it's only a slight bit of hyperbole on my part, I'm confident in saying that Brandon Weeden will never again take a snap in a Browns uniform after this season ends.
The faster this regime gets away from the failings of the previous regime the better everyone will feel for more than just one reason.
Besides, from a personal level I'd like nothing more to be a fly on the wall of the Walrus at the very moment when he sees his 1st round QB kicked to the curb after being an utter failure.
I think we have the room to just cut our losses and forget it ever happened.
I don't think he takes another snap in the NFL after this season. Would you want him as a backup? I wouldn't. Campbell was a minor free agent signing, and Hoyer was found from the scrap heap. I would think any NFL team looking for a backup could do better than Weeden. He's done.
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I am the only person you've heard question Manziel's ability to succeed at the pro level?
Seriously? Instead of playing games with me and reacting like this is something personal. How bout simply Educate me. Seriously dawg...do some research to your claim n if you wish to put me in my place do so by providing some links...not this imaginary Big Bust Claim with just flapping gums...errr fingers typing to prove it.
Vers...glad we agree on Manziel I won't get my hopes too high but will be wishing it falls to us perfectly in May
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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"Louisville's Teddy Bridgewater, Clemson's Tajh Boyd, Oregon's Marcus Mariota, Fresno State's Derek Carr, Alabama's AJ McCarron and Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel have been the subject of scouting voyages, according to the newspaper."
=========================================================
The Browns will be prepared for this draft. They will dot every "I" and cross every "T".
They will go hard after their guy if he is available. There will be a plan "B" if they have to look at a second choice.
If they do not like what is available in the draft they will explore other options like a trade for Mallett.
======================================================
Mallett is an interesting guy. I would love to know more about where his head is at after holding a clip board for Brady for three years.
He can really spin the ball. If he has learned the value of hard work, preparation, and gained knowledge about the NFL game he could be a gem that just needs a little polish.
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The problem with Mallett is that he is 3 years into a 4 year deal.
If we traded for him, we would have one year to make a decision about his long term future. If he was "OK", or "solid", do we resign him to a big contract, or not?
Also, how much do you give up for a guy like that? I might be OK with a 3rd, or maybe a 2nd, but there are far too many risks for me to give up a 1st or above.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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I know his contract status and that would be a factor but I think only to a degree. Lombardi has a strong relationship with Belichick. Belichick would want to make a trade because they would lose him the following year to free agency.
So it is deal that could be done. It really becomes an option only if the guy they want is unavailable.
Belichick will try to get what he can meaning the market will decide fair market value. Banner and Lombardi will decide what they could give up.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Legend
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Legend
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Another problem with Mallett is that he is no longer a young player. He will turn 26 in June. If we get our QB for the future in the upcoming off-season I would prefer that player to be 23 or younger. Mallett would have to come in and beat out both Campbell and Hoyer in order to have any value at all. If we draft a QB he will be 23 years old or less and could easily sit for a year or two.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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I will trust Banner and Lombardi (and the rest of the organization) should they decide to make such a move, because I think that they have made solid moves regarding the QB position thus far. When they were hired, Lombardi especially, I said that I would try to judge him only by what he does here and now. Thus far I think that he, and the rest of the staff, have done a solid job, especially at QB. If they decide to go after Mallett, then I will trust that it's the right decision. I like most of their decisions thus far, so I'll go along with what they go for now, (as if I have a choice anyway)
Now if they give up 2 firsts for Mallett, I might question that ...... but who knows? If the guy turned out to be a legitimate franchise QB, then it would be worth the price.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,861
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,861 |
Quote:
The problem with Mallett is that he is 3 years into a 4 year deal.
If we traded for him, we would have one year to make a decision about his long term future. If he was "OK", or "solid", do we resign him to a big contract, or not?
Also, how much do you give up for a guy like that? I might be OK with a 3rd, or maybe a 2nd, but there are far too many risks for me to give up a 1st or above.
I gotta believe that they don't make a trade for Mallett unless they totally believe he's the guy going forward. In which case, giving him the big money deal right off the bat is the way I'd guess they'd do it.
And if Mallett is all that, with Brady nearing the end of his career, what would it take to pry him away from the Pats?
Why would Belichick trade him if he thinks he's the future after Brady? (I'm not sure he thinks of him that way)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Well, if Mallett is all that, then he's not going to want to stick around behind Brady. Brady has a long term contract that would cost the Pats considerably if they cut him. He is playing at a high level, There is no reason to replace him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,861
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,861 |
Quote:
Well, if Mallett is all that, then he's not going to want to stick around behind Brady. Brady has a long term contract that would cost the Pats considerably if they cut him. He is playing at a high level, There is no reason to replace him.
Yeah, that's true, so maybe Belichick trades him for picks in order to add players that help them make another big push to the SB.. I guess I see that. Yeah, I see that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Legend
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Legend
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"If" the deal was made he would be the starter. You sit a rookie 2-3 years he is the then the same age. Mallett would be ready to play for ten plus years if they want the guy?
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