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You don't get all hyped up on Hoyer based on his performance in two complete games. That's fools gold.
I don't think that's why people were all hyped up about Hoyer. They saw a QB that got rid of the ball quickly, knowing where the ball was going from the snap.
It's not just about the production on the field and no QB wins every game, but there was a tangible difference in how Hoyer played vs. how Weeden (and Campbell) have played.
I hate to bring it up, but Weeden was 0-4. Currently, Campbell is 1-2. A loss against Putzburgh (providing he is the starter) would put him at 1-3. After watching this game against Cincy, it's distinctly possible to believe that the Browns could lose to Putzburgh.
I know that it could anger the toad, but Campbell looked a lot like Weeden and another performance like this past weekend will make is clear that there really isn't much difference between the two.
Maybe the front office can finally admit that going with Campbell & Weeden as the only QBs is a bad idea. It may be viewed that the front office and coaching staff are finally throwing in the 'white towel' on the season. And that's not good.
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The draft is still 6 months away and the Browns still face the major task of finding the right guy. Once the regular season is over and draft season begins much will be said about the 2014 qb draft class.
No matter what we think or how we debate the merits of one guy versus another Browns management still has to find a quarterback who can hold down the job and lead this team.
I agree here and I think Hoyer could do the job (providing he fully recovers from the injury) and I could seriously see us drafting two QBs (one mid-rounds and one later-rounds).
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And while I also agree with this, what I don't want to see is some desperation move and this FO get it wrong. And once again, I agree we aren't anywhere near set at the QB position, if given the choice, I'd rather go through another season unsettled at the QB position, than spend three years figuring out we selected the wrong guy and have to go through the process all over again.
Nothing to disagree with here.
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My hope is the Atlanta Falcons. If they can land the first or second pick in the draft order; I think they would welcome the opportunity to trade down.
The Browns would then have a shot at landing the top qb in this draft. I would love to get Bridgewater but I would be very happy with Mariota.
And then you go onto reaching for a QB. 
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Not sure if I'm in the "either and or crowd" when it comes to this. especially given the cost it would take to acquire them. If they see one or both of them as the complete answer, then fine. If not? That's way too of a high price to pay IMO
Haven't we learned anything from the Redskins debacle for going up for RG3? I would rather we offer Washington a 3rd or 4th rounder for Cousins. We missed out on good QBs last season by drafting Weeden in the first. We should have taken Glennon or Foles... or even Cousins much later.
Trade back and acquire even more picks and select some quality OL in the first. Maybe a LB, WR or TE.
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Haven't we learned anything from the Redskins debacle for going up for RG3? I would rather we offer Washington a 3rd or 4th rounder for Cousins. We missed out on good QBs last season by drafting Weeden in the first. We should have taken Glennon or Foles... or even Cousins much later.
Why in the world would they take that?
They have Cousins under contractual control for 2 more years, and lack the cap room to go out and sign a higher dollar backup QB. They know that they can win games with Cousins. Why the heck would they give him away for a 3rd or a 4th round pick?
I do not advocate reaching for a QB, but if there is a QB they feel is a franchise guy, and they are able to get him, either at one of their current spots, or by trading up, then they have to do so.
As a side note, One thing that has really surprised me is the QBs who have come from nowhere to win games this year. (or at least play really, really well)
Add the kid who started for the Raiders yesterday to a list of rookies and other young QBs who have come in and played really well this year. It's almost staggering how so many inexperienced kids have come in and played really well this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not sure if I'm in the "either and or crowd" when it comes to this. especially given the cost it would take to acquire them. If they see one or both of them as the complete answer, then fine. If not? That's way too of a high price to pay IMO
Haven't we learned anything from the Redskins debacle for going up for RG3? I would rather we offer Washington a 3rd or 4th rounder for Cousins. We missed out on good QBs last season by drafting Weeden in the first. We should have taken Glennon or Foles... or even Cousins much later.
Trade back and acquire even more picks and select some quality OL in the first. Maybe a LB, WR or TE.
Actually you were combining quotes from both myself and bonefish.
My point was, if they see THEIR "Andrew Luck" in this draft, they should go for it. I don't see it, but what we see really isn't the question here. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be or we'd already have a great QB here.
Hind sight is 20/20 when it comes to the draft. I don't see Glennon, Cousins or Foles as sure fire bets at QB. It's far too early in the game to make those calls.
What I don't want to do is end up with a QB who wins 8-10 games a year and be stuck in mediocrity. From my viewpoint, that seems to be the more likely scenario of what you're advocating here. Unless you think the guys you are mentioning are dynasty type QB's?
That's what I'm talking about when I mention them moving up. If they see that in a QB, they should do what they think it takes to get him. If not, don't.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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"And then you go onto reaching for a QB."
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If you get the opportunity to get a guy you feel will be on the level other franchise quarterbacks; then you do it. Draft picks are first "prospects". We have drafted plenty of guys in the first two rounds that have done nothing. So when you give up picks that does not equal talent.
However, when you are in the position the Browns are in at quarterback if you identify a guy you really like then you got to do what takes to get that guy.
People are all over RGIII. Like he was a bad investment. Look at what he did his rookie year. Just because this has been tough going for Washington does not mean Griffin is the reason. There are years to go before people should give the last word on RGIII.
If the Browns had a shot at Bridgewater and it cost them 2 first rounders or even three that is a chance I feel they need to take.
Personally I feel Bridgewater is a better quarterback. More ready to play the NFL game and a better pure passer than Griffin. And I like Griffin a lot.
Mariota is not as mature of a quarterback at this point because of the offense that he has run at Oregon. He will have more of a learning curve and would be a perfect guy to groom for a year. But let me say this: that kid has great talent. He could be really special.
If the Browns had to move up to get him I am all in with that move as well.
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Not for nothing, but I thought a lot of RGIII and would have been very happy had we been able to draft him. But I didn't want to give up what Washington did to get him. I was afraid of what is happening right now would happen. For once I think I was right.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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It would be just terrific to find a guy who we could get without moving up and trading for. Of course the history of the draft has shown you can get guys all over the board who become great. Wilson, Kaepernick, Brees to name just a recent few.
This draft has some guys that could prove out that will be picked later. But of course the later the pick the greater the odds. Mettenberger, Bryce Perry, AJ McCarron, David Fales, Derek Carr are guys who may surprise. What has often been stated is: " you never know how bad some guys want it".
Clowney has received plenty of hype. He may live up to it. He may not. My opinion is that there are a number of teams looking for their quarterback and in the end quarterbacks will go 1 and 2.
I am not debating who goes 1 and 2....I am simply saying there is a defensive player teams want and will be willing to pay to move up....that raises the stakes across the board, no matter the target. Teams are trading pick numbers, not players. We may have a team or two trying to get to the same number as us, even if the target isn't the same.
Price goes up.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Why in the world would they take that?
Because after two seasons starting 3-6, it's obvious that they need more than what they have. They also get back the pick that they used to acquire him (or better).
The question really should be whether the Browns would do it? I'm not sure that they would, but it seems obvious that of the 3 QBs mentioned (Glennon, Foles and Cousins) he's the one that's not going to be starting for his team barring injury. It seems obvious to me that Foles and Glennon have secured their jobs going forward.
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They have Cousins under contractual control for 2 more years, and lack the cap room to go out and sign a higher dollar backup QB. They know that they can win games with Cousins. Why the heck would they give him away for a 3rd or a 4th round pick?
See above. They obviously need more than they have.
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I do not advocate reaching for a QB, but if there is a QB they feel is a franchise guy, and they are able to get him, either at one of their current spots, or by trading up, then they have to do so.
So, why would they trade up? Which QBs could you imagine the Browns FO would be willing to trade up to get and what do you imagine they would be asked to give up to get that QB?
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Jason Campbell is a journeyman. He showed yesterday why he is a second string quarterback. He has a slow long delivery and he telegraphs every throw. He does not know how to put touch on the ball and is inconsistent with accuracy. That will buy you a second string job every time.
Hoyer was let go in favor of Mallett. He was cut from three teams. He has a career 59.4 % completion rate, 7 TD's 6 int's, and a career 77.4 qb rating.
I don't believe anybody around here has anointed Hoyer or campbell as the savior. They have only said they can be good enough that we don't have to reach or waste picks on a guy who is not sure to be the answer bro.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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The Redskins need help desperately on defense. Their defense is 3rd worst in scoring defense this year, and 5th worst overall.
That said, it makes no sense for them to drastically weaken their QB spot. Have you looked at the NFL this year? QBs have dropped like crazy. Guys who have never been heard of before are starting games. The Redskins ha ve 2 very good QBs. If they could get a 1st for Cousins, then that might be one thing, but giving him away for a 3rd or a 4th makes no sense at all.
Last year they scored 436 points, or 27.2 points/game.
They allowed 388, or 24.2 points/game.
This year they are scoring 24.6 points/game, and are allowing 31.1 per game.
While they need help on defense, it makes no sense to give up their QB depth just for a 3rd or 4th round pick.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All those draft choices are playing for the rams now.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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The Redskins need help desperately on defense. Their defense is 3rd worst in scoring defense this year, and 5th worst overall.
That said, it makes no sense for them to drastically weaken their QB spot. Have you looked at the NFL this year? QBs have dropped like crazy. Guys who have never been heard of before are starting games. The Redskins have 2 very good QBs. If they could get a 1st for Cousins, then that might be one thing, but giving him away for a 3rd or a 4th makes no sense at all.
Would it be a drastic weakening of their QB spot? Fine, then the Browns can draft a QB in this deep class that would be as good as Cousins but without the year's 'development' in the league.
That's the only thing that the Browns would really be paying for with any such trade for Cousins.
Let me ask you why would the Browns (or any team) offer a 1st rounder for Cousins (a 4th round draft choice last year)? Forget it. Browns should just draft a QB and let them sit.
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I don't think that the Browns should offer a #1 for Cousins.
I just don't think that it makes any sense for the Redskins to give up a more than capable backups with 2 full years left on his contract for anything less.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Would it be a drastic weakening of their QB spot? Fine, then the Browns can draft a QB in this deep class that would be as good as Cousins but without the year's 'development' in the league.
That's the only thing that the Browns would really be paying for with any such trade for Cousins.
Actually what you are paying for is not just the fact that he has been in the NFL for a couple years, you are paying for the fact that he has had success... As brief as it is, he has shown more than any rookie that he can play in this league... It's just slightly better odds that he isn't going to bust.
My big concern with cousins is his size.. at 6'3", 209, that's pretty light to take that beating.. Is he going to be durable over a full season?
yebat' Putin
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Jason Campbell is a journeyman. He showed yesterday why he is a second string quarterback. He has a slow long delivery and he telegraphs every throw. He does not know how to put touch on the ball and is inconsistent with accuracy. That will buy you a second string job every time.
Hoyer was let go in favor of Mallett. He was cut from three teams. He has a career 59.4 % completion rate, 7 TD's 6 int's, and a career 77.4 qb rating.
I don't believe anybody around here has anointed Hoyer or campbell as the savior. They have only said they can be good enough that we don't have to reach or waste picks on a guy who is not sure to be the answer bro.
Exactly.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I don't recall insinuating that I think you're a dope. Holy Insinuations Batman...Boom Zap Bang! loved how we thought that show was so great...lol 
But how do you come up with that with this: "I know n see a heck of a lot more than you are willing to give me credit for."
Its just in this tough evaluation thing I haven't been wrong with QBs that much. Oh don't judge me on defending Brown's QBs. Thats just me being me on the message board.
Aaron Rodgers I loved him - I started to tape his games when he was a Sophmore in college to teach my son technique.
RG3 was pimping him late September 2011 for our next QB...don't get me wrong I stayed away from Luck talk cause I knew he was great but I also knew he would be the Overall #1 and we had NO CHANCE at him.
In 2012 while looking for college QBs I stated that Bridgewater would be the next BEST QB to come out...he will be the Overall #1 pick in the strong QB class of 2014. I lamented that he would not be eligible for the 2013 class.
When Cam Newton came out - I think somebody here might remember as some where stating he would be a bust. I said NO WAY - he DEFINITELY would become a Super Star. He is reaching that stage now man I wish we had him here!
In the NO CLASS OF 2013 QBs the only QB I wanted here was Glennon...who knows how that will turn out. But I would rather have him here than Weeden. And he was cheap as in an investment.
I don't normally toot my own horn...I know some might think I'm arrogant and condescending...but when do I toot my own horn? All I'm trying to impress is that this OL NUT knows more about QB play than you think....I've made several of them and still tinker with them to improve them. I take film - I use Walsh's clips with Joe Montana as his Model teaching how to make the drops. I think Shot gun is the lazy coaches way. I also HATE running out of Shotgun it promotes a Defense to just blitz the Gaps as they are so slow developing. If its a pass they have a big time rush on the QB. Sorry as I wander...lol
I just hope Manziel drops like Rodgers did, I'm counting on the snobbery of NFL coaches on short QBs! I want him here and will pimp him Shamelessly so don't take it personal if I will not let you put him down a notch. I don't go by the HYPE stuff I go by these old dawgs eyes!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Actually what you are paying for is not just the fact that he has been in the NFL for a couple years, you are paying for the fact that he has had success... As brief as it is, he has shown more than any rookie that he can play in this league... It's just slightly better odds that he isn't going to bust.
Two years with about as much time as Hoyer as the starter.
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My big concern with cousins is his size.. at 6'3", 209, that's pretty light to take that beating.. Is he going to be durable over a full season?
I'm sure that the Redskins concerns are with RG3 and his size than with Cousins and his.
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I don't think that the Browns should offer a #1 for Cousins.
I just don't think that it makes any sense for the Redskins to give up a more than capable backups with 2 full years left on his contract for anything less.
I don't think they'd get a 1st round pick for a 4th round selection that is a backup. Period. Why wouldn't the Browns go ahead and give the Patriots the 2nd rounder for Mallett instead of giving Washington a 1st rounder for Cousins?
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I really think that this front office wants to find their own guy.
You get much more room for error drafting a guy than trading for a guy heading into his 4th year, and the 4th year of his contract.
Next year is the final year of Mallett's contract. It's either sign him long term, see what he does and try to resign him later, or franchise him. There is a ton of room for error there.
What happens if we were to trade for him nest year, and he has a decent, though not spectacular year. What do we do then?
I hate the idea of trading for a QB in the final year of his contract. It makes long term decisions about the player really difficult.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I really think that this front office wants to find their own guy.
You get much more room for error drafting a guy than trading for a guy heading into his 4th year, and the 4th year of his contract.
Next year is the final year of Mallett's contract. It's either sign him long term, see what he does and try to resign him later, or franchise him. There is a ton of room for error there.
What happens if we were to trade for him nest year, and he has a decent, though not spectacular year. What do we do then?
I hate the idea of trading for a QB in the final year of his contract. It makes long term decisions about the player really difficult.
I think they don't mind having Hoyer on the team. Lombardi also liked Mallett (as did a lot of people) and I don't think that they'd pay a premium for his services. If I recall, Lombardi also liked Cousins.
However, I do agree that they'll want to bring in a QB that they draft. I'm not sure who they like among this crop of QBs, but I could tell you how I rank them. And it's not exactly how all the 'experts' have them ranked and how the people that read what they write about them think.
Most have Bridgewater, Mariota, Manziel, et al at the top of this class of QBs. I don't.
The one that I like the best is actually Mettenberger. I also like Derek Carr and Kenny Guiton but I think that both might have to sit for a season to learn. I think you could go with Mettenberger from the start.
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I really think that this front office wants to find their own guy.
Sure they do. Especially when the guys they have aren't all that good.
That said, Lombardi has pimped Hoyer a long time. Maybe we have our guy. As it worked out, he just isn't playing because he got hurt.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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That said, Lombardi has pimped Hoyer a long time. Maybe we have our guy. As it worked out, he just isn't playing because he got hurt.
That's a very big "maybe".
To me the big question is his body of work being so small. He could easily be of the Matt Flynn variety.
That would bring into question whether or not based on that small body of work, can this FO and coaching staff rest the laurels on a QB with such a small amount of success to date moving forward.
I believe that would be very short sighted.
However, I still believe if this FO doesn't see an airtight answer at the QB position in this draft, they may defer to next year. Yet I still don't see Hoyer as the reasoning for this.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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... they may defer to next year.
But, as I assume that you are well aware, our record should improve next season making it even more difficult (expensive) to obtain our desired QB in the 2015 draft. To my way of thinking, it's got to be the 2014 draft that we get our guy...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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However, I still believe if this FO doesn't see an airtight answer at the QB position in this draft, they may defer to next year.
JMHO
That's something I considered as well. Maybe they like a few guys this year but they aren't in love with them. Pull a Belichick and trade picks for future picks. We could be in even better position next year if we did.
Plus with the amount of 1st and 2nd round QBs this year a 3rd round or 4th round guy would be good value and less teams will be looking for a QB next year.
Teams looking for QB's: Vikes, Tampa, Jags, Titans, Raiders, Texans, Philly, Cards, Pitt?
That's a lot of teams for one year. If we feel we'd have a better shot after all these teams invest highly I'd understand.
I don't see a guarantee or physical freak. Everyone is frail and has ?'s.
Not
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We should choose either Carr with our first pick or Tahj with our second pick.
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... they may defer to next year.
But, as I assume that you are well aware, our record should improve next season making it even more difficult (expensive) to obtain our desired QB in the 2015 draft. To my way of thinking, it's got to be the 2014 draft that we get our guy...
I did consider that. The problem for me is trying to claim I know "what they see".
If in fact they see that they can draft the third or fourth QB next year and "find the answer", verses having to trade up to do it this year, they may decide to wait.
I see so many advocating drafting differing people and I have tended to do so in the past. What I've figured out from all of that is that I have no idea of how the powers that be see the talent coming out in the draft.
They make huge money to scout talent not just this year, but beyond this year. they not only have to evaluate the QB position, but all positions. No matter what I or other posters suggest/want in a draft, we aren't the same as people who do this for a living.
But I do believe what they see this year and coming up next year will be a major part of the equation and that we will know before the first round is over. I believe this FO put us in the position to have multiple picks for a reason, including the trade from 4th to 3rd and 5th to 4th.
They told us they wanted to build this team for long term success. I think they know you need a very high caliber franchise QB in order to do that. Considering those factors, I don't feel they'll put a huge investment at the QB position unless it's someone they're sold on.
And from a W/L standpoint? I don't think that will change a whole lot until we have that answer at the QB position.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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To my way of thinking, it's got to be the 2014 draft that we get our guy...
My question is what if they see next year as a much better QB class and they feel they can get that QB later in the first and feel that acquiring a QB this year would take trading up and be a reach?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That would bring into question whether or not based on that small body of work, can this FO and coaching staff rest the laurels on a QB with such a small amount of success to date moving forward.
I believe that would be very short sighted.
A couple of things Pit:
1. Your statement pretty much reflects what US FANS know of Hoyer...they have seen him every day in practice for months...Lombardi sure as heck evaluated him high before joining here.
2. Feeding off of #1 When Weeden was injured in those practices they saw enough of Hoyer to leap frog him over Campbell.
3. I don't think resting the LAURELS of the QB position was ever in questioned. No doubt in my mind we will make a QB investment. But what I think it did do (unless he has a problem with his rehab) is minimize the NEED of getting a QB who would start Day 1...which means selling the farm variety and it won't be for the #1 QB possibly not even the #2 QB in this draft.
This I am glad. Can he be THE GUY...still a long shot. But he will have the confidence of the Coaching staff and of the team to be able to run the offense more proficiently then a kid just coming in from college.
How fast will the kid learn combined with how well or poorly the extended Data Base on Hoyer comes in will determine HOW LONG...I'm a pretty technical looker. certain emotions I go with as a fan but when looking at QB I am not one to go gung ho from one game. But the progress of play from start #1 to Start #2 was impressive. His use of certain weapons was obvious. His release was fast, His footwork was excellent. His mobility was good. His accuracy was very good. His progression and not locking onto WRs was very good. These just were not things that were a Lucky Day...
It would be short sighted for them to put ALL THEIR EGGS IN THAT ONE BASKET. But the strategy of now being able to draft somebody that they evaluate to have what they want but needs grooming is a more probable move than selling the farm for the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the draft. And it doesn't have to be Johnny Football with one of our first...It could be a guy they really like for Round two or three???
JMHO...but it doesn't have to be the Extreme, Hoyer is our Franchise QB.
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While we agree in some respects, we disagree in others. Quote:
1. Your statement pretty much reflects what US FANS know of Hoyer...they have seen him every day in practice for months...Lombardi sure as heck evaluated him high before joining here.
2. Feeding off of #1 When Weeden was injured in those practices they saw enough of Hoyer to leap frog him over Campbell.
I believe that there may be a good reason behind that which is often times dismissed or overlooked.
Campbell is what Campbell is. Hoyer was and still is in many respects still an unknown commodity. If in fact you are trying to build a team with the vision of the long haul and you are in a year of evaluation, seeing what Hoyer has given the potential you are seeing in practice, is what I consider to be a very wise investment.
The problem I see is trying to say you are playing every game with players who give you the best chance of winning the game and then say you're trying to build a team for the long haul. How can you evaluate your players if you don't play them? So I agree with you that they saw the potential to start Hoyer over Campbell. But to say that Hoyer gave us the best chance to win given Campbells experience and overall winning percentage against a pretty much unknown commodity I do question. Practice isn't a game. some practice well and play poorly and vica versa.
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3. I don't think resting the LAURELS of the QB position was ever in questioned. No doubt in my mind we will make a QB investment. But what I think it did do (unless he has a problem with his rehab) is minimize the NEED of getting a QB who would start Day 1...which means selling the farm variety and it won't be for the #1 QB possibly not even the #2 QB in this draft.
This I am glad. Can he be THE GUY...still a long shot. But he will have the confidence of the Coaching staff and of the team to be able to run the offense more proficiently then a kid just coming in from college.
Here we totally disagree!
I don't believe you draft a QB based on "need". We have shining examples of where that has gotten us over the past 14 years. drafting based strictly upon need, or letting need impact who you draft and when is a recipe for destruction IMO
I like what I saw in Hoyer I must admit. However, I believe that after watching terrible QB play for so long, average QB play looked great and it was really no more or no less than that.
jmho
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
That would bring into question whether or not based on that small body of work, can this FO and coaching staff rest the laurels on a QB with such a small amount of success to date moving forward.
I believe that would be very short sighted.
However, I still believe if this FO doesn't see an airtight answer at the QB position in this draft, they may defer to next year. Yet I still don't see Hoyer as the reasoning for this.
I believe it has to happen this year.. the stars are aligned. We have all of the ammunition we need to move up if needed, it's a really deep QB draft, even if there isn't an Andrew Luck at the top (who we wouldn't get any way), there are probably 3 or 4 that are on the next level... We don't have any certainty at all at the position right now... While we still have holes to fill, they aren't nearly as glaring as they were a few years ago...
The worst case is always that you end up with a bust.. the best case is that you end up with a Rivers/Brees situation with our draft pick and Hoyer. (No, I did not just compare Hoyer to Brees..)  You go into camp, give Hoyer every chance to keep the job and if he does, great, the rookie gets to sit for a little while and Hoyer either proves to be the guy or he improves his trade stock..
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To my way of thinking, it's got to be the 2014 draft that we get our guy...
My question is what if they see next year as a much better QB class and they feel they can get that QB later in the first and feel that acquiring a QB this year would take trading up and be a reach?
This.
Getting into a "we must get a QB this year" mindset leads to reaches, panic and/or overspending to move up, just "to get a QB." If it's a guy you want, fine. If it's a pick just to grab a QB, then you end up setting yourself back 3 years as you let the guy you sold the farm for run his course.
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Quote:
My question is what if they see next year as a much better QB class and they feel they can get that QB later in the first and feel that acquiring a QB this year would take trading up and be a reach?
That's easy, the Browns have 2 firsts, a second, 2 thirds, and 2 fourths.. if the scenario is as you suggest and we think the 2015 draft is the place to get the best QB and you don't think the one you want will be there in 2014... then you take one of the firsts, one of the thirds, whatever you think it will take and you trade them this year for picks in 2015.. so that regardless of our record next year, we are left with the ammunition to move up in 2015 if we need to..
What we can't do is spend all of our draft picks this year and be left with uncertainty at the QB spot.. no matter how many holes that allows us to fill.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Getting into a "we must get a QB this year" mindset leads to reaches, panic and/or overspending to move up, just "to get a QB." If it's a guy you want, fine. If it's a pick just to grab a QB, then you end up setting yourself back 3 years as you let the guy you sold the farm for run his course.
I think by having capable backups in Hoyer and Campbell allow us to not have to panic. That is very different than targeting a guy and sell the farm though. If they feel their Franchise QB will be gone in the top 5 then go get him.
Some may say no QB needy team would ever trade out of the top of a draft but there is no way to know the Jags or whoever wont grade a late 1st round type QB higher than many in the league.
My question is if your a team in the top 5 who needs a QB(Jags, Oak, Hou, Minn, TB) would you not consider trading? These teams outside of the Jags all have either a young QB or an old QB on decline(some both). If your the GM and your not 100% that your QB is at his potential I don't see why a trade couldn't happen.
Imagine if HOU, ATL, OAK or TB end up no1. All these teams have young QBs who have played well at times. Sure maybe they go QB or maybe theyd prefer 2 1st and a few extra picks. The Falcons gave up 22, 27, 59, 118 and 124 to get to 6. We'll probably have around 15 and 25 in the 1st. add in a few more picks and maybe throw in Rubin and we could get our QB and still fill some holes this year.
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My two cents:
I know a lot about Jason Campbell from his days with the Redskins. And what happened this past weekend is typical. The guy would string together two or three really good starts, then just have a disaster of a game. Inconsistent to say the least.
Hoyer, I don't know much about. I watched him a little bit when he was at Michigan State, and was sitting at Union Station in Chicago watching the game when he blew out his knee. I haven't seen enough of him to form a solid opinion.
What I do know is that he is about to turn 30 and will be coming off a major knee injury. If I recall Campbell is close to hitting 32. So you have two 30+ year old quarterbacks. The goal for the front office will be to figure out which guy will be, as mentioned, your caretaker (or bus driver as Bill Parcells used to say). Is either guy a guy you build your team around? No.
The 2014 draft (depending on Juniors & RS Sophomores declaring) is shaping up to be one of the deepest drafts at quarterback in recent memory. A short list of Bridgewater, Mariotta, Manziel, Hundley, Carr, Mettenberger, Murray Boyd and so many more. We could see 3-5 taken in the first, a year after none were taken until the 2nd. Go into the draft looking at QB. Figure out who your guy is and go get him. If you can't, get your QB 1 B. If you can't get him, never fear. There will be solid prospects available throughout this draft. You just can't walk out after three days in the war room without one.
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I'm not sure I agree Rock. The Browns have been plagued by front offices who never made the bold move. We would settle and go for value. It has gotten us no where.
From playcalling to 4th downs to trades to free agency this front office has been the boldest I've seen. I really don't want to settle for option B as far as QBs go. If a trade is unavailable for our top guy that's one thing but if we sit and wait like we always have I might die. We need to get our top guy that is available TO US in this draft.
If that can't happen we wait IMO. We really don't need another second class Frye, Weeden, McCoy or Quinn type. We finally have the roster talent to sell the farm for our guy. Some teams get lucky but for most the best way to get the Franchise QB is to identify him and draft him in the 1st.
Last edited by predator16; 11/20/13 05:11 PM.
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Quote:
That's easy, the Browns have 2 firsts, a second, 2 thirds, and 2 fourths.. if the scenario is as you suggest and we think the 2015 draft is the place to get the best QB and you don't think the one you want will be there in 2014... then you take one of the firsts, one of the thirds, whatever you think it will take and you trade them this year for picks in 2015.. so that regardless of our record next year, we are left with the ammunition to move up in 2015 if we need to..
What we can't do is spend all of our draft picks this year and be left with uncertainty at the QB spot.. no matter how many holes that allows us to fill.
Which was kind of the direction I was headed. I do however feel if they have someone "they see" as head and shoulders above the rest this year and feel they need to move up to get him, I wouldn't object to that.
I just don't see "all of the stars aligned" for this year depending upon how they evaluate this and next years draft. I certainly hope they can address it this year. However, if they feel that next year gives them the best options, it makes sense to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I'm not sure I agree Rock. The Browns have been plagued by front offices who never made the bold move. We would settle and go for value. It has gotten us no where.
From playcalling to 4th downs to trades to free agency this front office has been the boldest I've seen. I really don't want to settle for option B as far as QBs go. If a trade is unavailable for our top guy that's one thing but if we sit and wait like we always have I might die. We need to get our top guy that is available TO US in this draft.
If that can't happen we wait IMO. We really don't need another second class Frye, Weeden, McCoy or Quinn type. We finally have the roster talent to sell the farm for our guy. Some teams get lucky but for most the best way to get the Franchise QB is to identify him and draft him in the 1st.
I understand what your saying, and I agree. I'm just saying that say the trade to move up and get Manziel or Mariotta or whoever isn't there, why not roll the dice on a guy in the mid-rounds like Aaron Murray or Jordan Lynch. Let them sit, work on their game and see if you have something. Maybe a mid round steal. If not you have a back up or a player you can turn for picks when you get your guy, ala Green Bay in the 90's and what they did with Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell ect
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BTW, Jordan Lynch is on TV tonight if you want to watch his winning streak come to an end. 
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A couple of things to consider is that this isn't the first time we've been on our 3rd QB in the same season. And when looking around the league, keeping a QB upright has gotten tougher even with the rule changes. So while the theory of having a guy sit for a year or two sounds fine, I'm not so sure the theory will line up with reality.
We have witnessed one regime after another get the QB position wrong in the draft. I know we have seen guys like Wilson and Kaepernick come onto the scene, but if you look at the odds of success with 2nd and 3rd round QB picks, the odds aren't good.
Now I'm not saying they may not target such a QB, but I don't feel they have the luxury of getting it wrong this time. And I think they know it. This fan base has seen that too many times.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We should choose either Carr with our first pick or Tahj with our second pick.
Not that it's worth much, but my opinion is that Carr is a terrible prospect, and that Boyd is light years beyond Carr.
I've watched two games by Carr. He stares right into coverages and still throws the ball because that's where the play is designed to go on the first read. He's a good story and puts up good numbers, but the games I've rewatched have shown me a guy I want no part of.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
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I'm not sure I agree Rock. The Browns have been plagued by front offices who never made the bold move. We would settle and go for value. It has gotten us no where.
From playcalling to 4th downs to trades to free agency this front office has been the boldest I've seen. I really don't want to settle for option B as far as QBs go. If a trade is unavailable for our top guy that's one thing but if we sit and wait like we always have I might die. We need to get our top guy that is available TO US in this draft.
If that can't happen we wait IMO. We really don't need another second class Frye, Weeden, McCoy or Quinn type. We finally have the roster talent to sell the farm for our guy. Some teams get lucky but for most the best way to get the Franchise QB is to identify him and draft him in the 1st.
I understand what your saying, and I agree. I'm just saying that say the trade to move up and get Manziel or Mariotta or whoever isn't there, why not roll the dice on a guy in the mid-rounds like Aaron Murray or Jordan Lynch. Let them sit, work on their game and see if you have something. Maybe a mid round steal. If not you have a back up or a player you can turn for picks when you get your guy, ala Green Bay in the 90's and what they did with Aaron Brooks, Mark Brunell ect
I see. I think I misunderstood. I took it as you preferring to just take the QB that drops in the 1st round. Basically getting the guy everyone passed on because it was good value. We are actually totally in agreement then. If the top guy isn't available for us to go and get I would also rather just take a guy in the 3rd or later and try again next year.
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